 Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC) Posts: 332 Location: Madrid,
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Hello, good morning
Being a markliner, I am interested in HAG locomotives, which have a very good reputation, I have read that they usually carry one of two types of engines, one called 88 with ball bearings I think, and another 64, but I can not find information on which locomotive carries which engine, or how to distinguish them.
Also to digitalize one of these locomotives it would be necessary to change the coil stator for a permanent magnet, but I can not find any part number of these stators or if they are equivalent to any of marklin.
It seems that the HAG locomotives digitalized in factory, have ESU decoders but in the ESU web I can't find any information about the permanent magnet stators for these locomotives.
Any help, please?
Thanks in advance and best regards
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,443
Location: DE-NW
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You can get the magnets from HAG.
AIUI, all DC locos and newer AC locos from HAG already have the magnet.
I just buy a loco and when it arrives I see which type of motor it has and if a magnet is installed. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
 1 user liked this useful post by H0
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 Joined: 28/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 303 Location: Torino,
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Motor type 88 is used in new generation locomotives after 1988. The HAG permanent magnet for type 88 is 161216-90, difficult to find and very expensive (35 - 50 €).
I'm not aware of any ESU magnet suitable for HAG motors.
For old motors,once I found on ebay a German shop that modifies the field coil inserting a magnet, price in the 50 € range and you must ship the motor to them.
BTW, on ebay there is a used 161216-90 at a lower price but the picture shows a field coil and an electronic reversing unit.
Regards
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1 user liked this useful post by mario54i
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 Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,489 Location: Lyon, France
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2 users liked this useful post by French_Fabrice
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 Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,435 Location: Switzerland
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Originally Posted by: amartinezv 
Being a markliner, I am interested in HAG locomotives, which have a very good reputation, I have read that they usually carry one of two types of engines, one called 88 with ball bearings I think, and another 64, but I can not find information on which locomotive carries which engine, or how to distinguish them.
As a Swiss HAG buyer since 1963, I'll try to help: - There are not only two types of motors, but the older motor which is either called type 64 (or often type 66) is most common in HAG locos built approximately between 1966 and 1987. - This motor was not (or not entirely) equipped with ball bearings. In models for AC operation it featured a coil stator, as you have correctly observed. It can be digitized with a HAG permanent magnet, but some knowledge and modifications are necessary. - The motor type 88 has been used since 1988 until today. Digitization is not too difficult; the part number of the magnet has been mentioned above. - An overview of most HAG motors can be accessed here. In German language, but an online translator such as "DeepL" should explain most questions: https://www.hag.swiss/wp...n-unterscheidet-man-.pdf- There is a HAG forum on the Internet where I have been one of the administrators since 2005. (https://www.forum.hag-info.ch/) It is in German language, but postings in English are accepted and welcome especially when a DeepL translation is supplied. If you want to write something there but can't supply a translation yourself, I will do it for you. - With regard to HAG's reputation: I have to repeat the following statement almost endlessly. The "real" and traditional HAG company operated between the years 1944 and 2012. Models produced during that period earned the genuine "Swiss Made" reputation. However, around 2012/2013, this famous company closed down, and the machinery and stocks were taken over by a new guy with new staff. The quality of the products delivered since 2013 has substantially changed. Not wishing to involve this precious forum in a Court action for defamation (the forum is being monitored by one of the few remaining followers of the current HAG company owner  ), I can only invite you to VERY carefully investigate possible quality issues before attempting to purchase a model produced since 2013. - There is also a HAG collectors' database on the Web which only includes "true" HAG HO models produced between 1954 and 2012. https://www.frunum.de/ If you don't find a specific model here, it is likely to have been manufactured since 2013.
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5 users liked this useful post by Unholz
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 Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,875 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
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When I buy HAG loco I've decided to buy locos with DC motors as it has been mentioned to change a loco from AC to DC is very expensive, I'm lucky because I operate all my electric locos over the overhead system., I don't have any locos from the new motors, the standard motor has a more robust design and more accurate than the Märklin drum motor
John |
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2 users liked this useful post by river6109
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Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC) Posts: 332 Location: Madrid,
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Originally Posted by: H0 You can get the magnets from HAG.
AIUI, all DC locos and newer AC locos from HAG already have the magnet.
I just buy a loco and when it arrives I see which type of motor it has and if a magnet is installed. Thank you very much for your quick answer Best regards |
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Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC) Posts: 332 Location: Madrid,
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Originally Posted by: mario54i Motor type 88 is used in new generation locomotives after 1988. The HAG permanent magnet for type 88 is 161216-90, difficult to find and very expensive (35 - 50 €).
I'm not aware of any ESU magnet suitable for HAG motors.
For old motors,once I found on ebay a German shop that modifies the field coil inserting a magnet, price in the 50 € range and you must ship the motor to them.
BTW, on ebay there is a used 161216-90 at a lower price but the picture shows a field coil and an electronic reversing unit.
Regards Thank you very much, I write down the stator permanent magnet part number, it's very useful. Some of my friends here in Madrid have modified the stator of a marklin locomotive, removing the coil, cutting it and inserting some neodymium magnets, the result is excellent, something like what you say. Thank you very much. |
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1 user liked this useful post by amartinezv
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Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC) Posts: 332 Location: Madrid,
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Originally Posted by: French_Fabrice Thank you very much |
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Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC) Posts: 332 Location: Madrid,
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Originally Posted by: Unholz Originally Posted by: amartinezv
Being a markliner, I am interested in HAG locomotives, which have a very good reputation, I have read that they usually carry one of two types of engines, one called 88 with ball bearings I think, and another 64, but I can not find information on which locomotive carries which engine, or how to distinguish them.
As a Swiss HAG buyer since 1963, I'll try to help: - There are not only two types of motors, but the older motor which is either called type 64 (or often type 66) is most common in HAG locos built approximately between 1966 and 1987. - This motor was not (or not entirely) equipped with ball bearings. In models for AC operation it featured a coil stator, as you have correctly observed. It can be digitized with a HAG permanent magnet, but some knowledge and modifications are necessary. - The motor type 88 has been used since 1988 until today. Digitization is not too difficult; the part number of the magnet has been mentioned above. - An overview of most HAG motors can be accessed here. In German language, but an online translator such as "DeepL" should explain most questions: https://www.hag.swiss/wp...n-unterscheidet-man-.pdf- There is a HAG forum on the Internet where I have been one of the administrators since 2005. (https://www.forum.hag-info.ch/) It is in German language, but postings in English are accepted and welcome especially when a DeepL translation is supplied. If you want to write something there but can't supply a translation yourself, I will do it for you. - With regard to HAG's reputation: I have to repeat the following statement almost endlessly. The "real" and traditional HAG company operated between the years 1944 and 2012. Models produced during that period earned the genuine "Swiss Made" reputation. However, around 2012/2013, this famous company closed down, and the machinery and stocks were taken over by a new guy with new staff. The quality of the products delivered since 2013 has substantially changed. Not wishing to involve this precious forum in a Court action for defamation (the forum is being monitored by one of the few remaining followers of the current HAG company owner ), I can only invite you to VERY carefully investigate possible quality issues before attempting to purchase a model produced since 2013. - There is also a HAG collectors' database on the Web which only includes "true" HAG HO models produced between 1954 and 2012. https://www.frunum.de/ If you don't find a specific model here, it is likely to have been manufactured since 2013. Thank you very much Stefan, all my doubts are answered in your post. A few days ago talking with my friends about the quality of Hag, I thought, well maybe I could look to buy one that has no equivalent in märklin, in the train fleamarkets in Madrid you don't usually see Hag locomotives, but from time to time some appear, I'll keep an eye on them. And I'll look at the links you tell me, I have no problem using deepL, in fact I'm using it now, for convenience. It's a pity that your database is no longer available, but I will look at the one you tell me. Thank you very much for your quick and complete answer. Best regards from Madrid |
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1 user liked this useful post by amartinezv
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Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC) Posts: 332 Location: Madrid,
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Originally Posted by: river6109 When I buy HAG loco I've decided to buy locos with DC motors as it has been mentioned to change a loco from AC to DC is very expensive, I'm lucky because I operate all my electric locos over the overhead system., I don't have any locos from the new motors, the standard motor has a more robust design and more accurate than the Märklin drum motor
John That's a good idea, thank you for you answer Best regards |
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Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,435 Location: Switzerland
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Originally Posted by: amartinezv
It's a pity that your database is no longer available, but I will look at the one you tell me.
Thank you very much for your quick and complete answer.
Antonio, you are welcome! Please always feel free to ask HAG related questions here. BTW, the mentioned database at https://www.frunum.de/ is "mine" in a way - it is based on the UNUM predecessor and maintained by two very pleasant German friends because I am getting old  and wanted to keep the thing running in good hands.
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1 user liked this useful post by Unholz
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Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,435 Location: Switzerland
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4 users liked this useful post by Unholz
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 Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,454 Location: Scotland
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I stopped buying when the original company gave up. Great shame as the quality was excellent and there was even a dealer on the UK that could get anything I needed. Not sure why current models can not be built as the originals. To be fair I have not purchased any new HAG so can only go by comments on our site. Stephan is a HAG expert and I would go with anything he says. |
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer. |
2 users liked this useful post by David Dewar
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Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC) Posts: 332 Location: Madrid,
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Originally Posted by: Unholz To all HAG enthusiasts: Here is an additional bit of general advice when you are for instance standing at a flea market and see a HAG box on a table. These are the most common box types in chronological order from old to new. The first three should usually contain a "traditional" HAG product from the good old days, whereas the fourth one signals "caution!".
Of course, this only applies as long as nobody switched boxes, for instance because the foam inlay had deteriorated:
Thank you very much, Stefan, this is also a very good and usefull information |
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1 user liked this useful post by amartinezv
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