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Offline MegaBlackJoe  
#1 Posted : 12 November 2021 13:10:33(UTC)
MegaBlackJoe

Belarus   
Joined: 12/11/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2
Location: Minskaya voblasts', Minsk
Märklin released a defective 88136 model. It looks like metall impregnated plastic has played a bad joke. Although the weight and traction power have increased, the body of the locomotive has a very bad quality. The model itself has a lot of plastic debree scattered all over body, gears, cab. It looks as if the plastic has begun to destoy from the factory. The paint quality of the locomotive is very low and I am surprised that the model has passed quality assurance control. This is the worst Z scale model ever offfered by Märklin. As an owner of 88131 - I am shocked, because 88136 was a flawless model - the paint quality is supreme. At first I thought that the problems are related to the paint but after closer examination of the paint, I saw that the body is destoyed small pieces of plastic have left the body at the factory. This is how it looks like in reality. The model is just from the factory - there is no dust on it - these are plastic debree scattered all over it. Märklin offers to send the locomotive back to their factory to the repairment department - but I don't see the way how the repairment can fix factory defects, I also paid the import tax and a shipping fee.
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Offline Zme  
#2 Posted : 12 November 2021 17:49:06(UTC)
Zme

United States   
Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 516
Location: West Texas
Hello, hope you are well, and welcome to the site.

I can see what your comment is about. The shell has small flecks of material stuck to it and in the upper photo, the lines are not strong and consistent. Am I correct, there seems to be a slight color change from one end to the other. I know how disappointing this must be. These defects don’t just rub away but are imbedded into the material.

It would seem, even if this may not impact performance or operation, it is something which Marklin should be made aware of. I know there is no way to avoid postal and import fees, but there may be no alternative. I have never used their warranty service, but have hear only good things about them. It is likely, yours is not the only instance of these flaws. It could be an entire batch is impacted. I would notify them and see what happens. These are expensive models and should be covered by warranty from any defects. I have never held one of these in my hand, so don’t know what quality standard it should meet.

For your first contact, you may use this link:

https://www.maerklin.de/...mer-service/contact-form

Here is a link to their support page for repairs should this be considered a repair.

https://www.maerklin.de/...r-service/repair-service

Hopefully everything will work out to your satisfaction. Please let us know what happens. I ordered this model too, but have not received it yet, so I am very interested in your outcome.

Again, welcome to the best Marklin user site available.

Take good care.

Dwight
Offline kiwiAlan  
#3 Posted : 12 November 2021 21:50:45(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,855
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Zme Go to Quoted Post
Hello, hope you are well, and welcome to the site.

I can see what your comment is about. The shell has small flecks of material stuck to it and in the upper photo, the lines are not strong and consistent. Am I correct, there seems to be a slight color change from one end to the other. I know how disappointing this must be. These defects don’t just rub away but are imbedded into the material.


I think the colour difference is just the way different lighting can change colours. But I was appalled at the top edge of the windows (both ends) where the body has chipped on the edge, to a point where you can see the outside of the window frame that is printed on the glazing. That definitely shouldn't be like that, and the only fix is a return to marklin for a new body.

But you should be OK returning it, do some research with your local customs department to make sure you fill out the customs declaration correctly and that the item is being returned for "warranty repair". Marklin should then do the same when it is returned to you so you don't get doubled charged tax.

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Offline marklinist5999  
#4 Posted : 13 November 2021 13:55:22(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 1,659
Location: Michigan, Troy
It's not so much the colors, the die molding job looks sad.
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#5 Posted : 14 November 2021 18:13:46(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 444
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: Zme Go to Quoted Post
Hopefully everything will work out to your satisfaction. Please let us know what happens. I ordered this model too, but have not received it yet, so I am very interested in your outcome.



I too have one of these on order and have been excitedly watching for shipping notification, so I'm also very interested to hear the outcome.

I can imagine that the metal loaded plastic is more difficult to mould than regular plastic, but I'm surprised no-one else has commented if this is a regular problem. Trainini's reviews are usually highly critical so I'm sure they would have picked up on this if it's typical.

I'll be sure to report back when mine finally arrives - assuming Marklin's UK distributor has been allocated some of this model.

All the best


Chris

Offline Mman  
#6 Posted : 20 November 2021 14:37:08(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 202
Location: England, Guildford
My 88136 Ludmilla arrived today weighing 53.64 grams, some tiny imperfections only apparent in close up photographs.
Runs nicely and negotiates 145mm radius curves at speed. Actually runs better in one direction than the other which is not unusual in these Z locos.
I haven’t tried a haulage test yet.
ChrisG
14AED63D-B0BD-4F0B-9903-F7AB6C7D4890.jpeg0F4862C6-09CE-4947-A262-AFEE7D645E4F.jpegEA2E7D80-71D0-424B-8930-F720EFEDD831.jpeg
Offline Zme  
#7 Posted : 20 November 2021 15:38:51(UTC)
Zme

United States   
Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 516
Location: West Texas
Hello, hope all is well.

Apparently, the mold/injection process is hit or miss and not a widespread issue. Yours appears much improved but it is by no means perfect. I see some edges which lack crispness, at lease the small flecks are largely missing. The windows are/seem correctly placed. Will you accept this or notify Marklin?

Otherwise must be impressive to handle.

Let us know what you decide.

Thanks for sharing, take good care.

Dwight
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Offline Poor Skeleton  
#8 Posted : 20 November 2021 15:40:00(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 444
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: Mman Go to Quoted Post
My 88136 Ludmilla arrived today weighing 53.64 grams, some tiny imperfections only apparent in close up photographs.
Runs nicely and negotiates 145mm radius curves at speed. Actually runs better in one direction than the other which is not unusual in these Z locos.
I haven’t tried a haulage test yet.


Quite jealous - I phoned through my card details on Wednesday, but Gaugemaster still haven't shipped it. Hopefully Monday! Looking forward to seeing how many coaches it can haul around my layout! (My guess is more than can stay on the track!

Have a great weekend "testing" your new acquisition!


Chris

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Offline Poor Skeleton  
#9 Posted : 22 November 2021 22:36:25(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 444
Location: England, Cambridge
Mine arrived today and I've been able to spend a bit of time running and evaluating the model. As Chris G reported it's a nice smooth runner - unusually so, I feel, as I find the six wheel bogie not to be terrible smooth. This model runs infinitely smoother than either of my other two Ludmillas.

I was running some haulage tests over the weekend - here are the results

Model Weight Haulage
88786 BR218 24g 5
8874 BR218 37g 6
88132 Ludmilla 34g 9
88136 Ludmilla 54g 10

The haulage figure is the number of 8720 bogie coaches the loco can pull around my layout (with ~3% gradients).

The surprise is that despite its much greater weight the vintage 8874 can only manage one more coach than the modern equivalent. Equally surprising, the lighter 88132 Ludmilla can manage three additional coaches, yet the much heavier 88136 can only pull one more. Not entirely representative as the most demanding part of the layout is on a curve, but I'm still surprised the new model didn't manage more.

I've been too scared to look closely at the quality of the moulding, but there was nothing I found offensive at first glance, so I'm going to leave it at that!

Cheers


Chris
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Zme
Offline Zme  
#10 Posted : 23 November 2021 04:03:12(UTC)
Zme

United States   
Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 516
Location: West Texas
Hello, Hope all is well.

I guess you had a great weekend! That is good!

I don’t understand how a locomotive with so much weight doesn’t have more pulling power. If only all three wheel sets were driven. So much for the dream.

I guess this could confirm weight is not the only factor. It is still hampered with the location of the weight over the drive/traction wheels.

I have noticed on my layout, some of the scenics get into the path of my longer passenger wagons as they track around the curve. I have gone around checking side clearance and moving or removing “bushes” or “fences” so they clear. This has made a difference. Sometimes the gotchas are just the simple solutions you find.

Take good care.


Dwight
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#11 Posted : 23 November 2021 22:06:55(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 444
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: Zme Go to Quoted Post
Hello, Hope all is well.

I guess you had a great weekend! That is good!

I don’t understand how a locomotive with so much weight doesn’t have more pulling power. If only all three wheel sets were driven. So much for the dream.

I guess this could confirm weight is not the only factor. It is still hampered with the location of the weight over the drive/traction wheels.

I have noticed on my layout, some of the scenics get into the path of my longer passenger wagons as they track around the curve. I have gone around checking side clearance and moving or removing “bushes” or “fences” so they clear. This has made a difference. Sometimes the gotchas are just the simple solutions you find.

Take good care.


Dwight


New toys are always fun - looking forward to more playing this weekend!

This evening I attempted to get a more scientific result by altering the gradient of a length of straight track with a fixed number of coaches. The results were broadly in line with my previous ones, but not consistent enough to publish here.

Hope yours arrives soon so you can join in the fun!

Cheers


Chris


Offline MegaBlackJoe  
#12 Posted : 24 November 2021 14:59:05(UTC)
MegaBlackJoe

Belarus   
Joined: 12/11/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2
Location: Minskaya voblasts', Minsk
Thanks for posting fotos, indeed, although your model looks better than mine, there are still molding defects which is a shame
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#13 Posted : 24 November 2021 23:13:39(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 444
Location: England, Cambridge
I rigged up a more elaborate traction test with a pulley and set of precision scales. The results seemed fairly consistent, so here they are :

Model.............Weight........Haulage
88786 BR218.... 24g............ 4.2g
8874 BR218...... 37g............ 6.2g
88132 Ludmilla.. 34g............ 7.3g
88136 Ludmilla.. 54g............ 9.5g

These are measured on straight level track and the old surprise of the Ludmilla out-hauling the heavier BR218 remains! I am increasingly feeling that is due to the silver coloured wheels of the 8874 BR218. All of the other locos have modern dark plated wheels.

Hope this is of interest.


Chris
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Offline Mman  
#14 Posted : 03 December 2021 11:18:04(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 202
Location: England, Guildford
Finally got around to a simple haulage test for the metal filled plastic Ludmilla 88136, it managed 24 two axle tankers around the Noch Tessin.
I located my Rokuhan BR181 with two traction tyres and although weighing a mere 28.32 gram easily walked away with the 24 tankers. The Rokuhan has drawbacks though, not least the awful dummy pantographs. It hesitates on certain parts of the layout jerking its consist causing buffer locking and with the simple built in controls of the Tessin there are no gradual take offs or stops - again jerking the consist. The pantographs are truly terrible, I’m tempted to look for a couple of mini-club ones to fit instead.
Whilst I had a lot of tankers out I tried out the recently delivered AW Cotbus class 218 88807 which at 26.26 gram managed a creditable 15 of the tanks.
I am now eagerly awaiting delivery of 88545 class 103 loco also with metal filled plastic body to see how well or otherwise it is made and what it will haul.
ChrisG
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Zme
Offline Zme  
#15 Posted : 03 December 2021 17:21:39(UTC)
Zme

United States   
Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 516
Location: West Texas
Hello, hope all is well.

That is impressive. That is load of wagons. I still have not received any word on the Ludmilla. It should be a real puller by all accounts.

I have often wondered about the 181. That pantograph is a real eyesore, I am sure the decision to go with plastic was profit driven. To me that one was relatively expensive and I never seem to see it on EBay. I guess that is why I never picked one up. It is otherwise, a nice looking model. Would look much better with a “realistic “ pantograph, but I have not seen someone attempting this modification.

Perhaps you will be the first.

Take good care.

Dwight

Offline parakiet  
#16 Posted : 09 December 2021 20:11:28(UTC)
parakiet

Belgium   
Joined: 20/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 151
Location: Flanders!
weight is one factor.
There are others ;)
Offline Mman  
#17 Posted : 09 December 2021 21:13:17(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 202
Location: England, Guildford
Certainly there are, how each wheel giving traction bears down on the rail for one. With such small locos as Z it is difficult to have the flexibility in the mounting of the trucks to accommodate uneven tracks. Weight distribution is another art. With full size railways individual springs are adjusted to equalise the weight on each wheel.
The act of pulling a rake of wagons acting on the loco coupling may alter the way the truck sits on the rails, on full size railways the drawbars are mounted on the loco chassis and not on the trucks -a compromise to allow model trains to negotiate sharp curves. I have found that two truck locos will often pull more with one cab leading than the other.
The material that both rail and wheel use, I found that the serrated wheel set from the track cleaning rail bus has superior adhesive powers and of course the traction tires on Rokuhan and some other manufacturers can really dig in.
I have yet to compare Märklin, Peco and Rokuhan rails for maximum traction to see if there is any difference.
Having an engineering background I find these experiments have as much interest as the successful running of my trains. I pretty well dismiss most steamers as being capable of any serious haulage - Mallets being an exception.
ChrisG
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#18 Posted : 10 December 2021 16:46:04(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 444
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: Mman Go to Quoted Post
I pretty well dismiss most steamers as being capable of any serious haulage - Mallets being an exception.
ChrisG



Not sure what you regard as serious haulage, but the BR94 (88942) is a very capable little loco.

Cheers


Chris
Offline Mman  
#19 Posted : 10 December 2021 16:55:18(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 202
Location: England, Guildford
I’ve not got one of those, I wonder what it weighs.
ChrisG
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#20 Posted : 10 December 2021 17:57:31(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 444
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: Mman Go to Quoted Post
I’ve not got one of those, I wonder what it weighs.
ChrisG


31g according to my records!

Cheers


Chris
Offline zscalehobo  
#21 Posted : 12 December 2021 05:54:19(UTC)
zscalehobo

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 178
Location: CALIFORNIA, Irvine
all units I received - I don't see any such window or casting defects. Here's a small sample of what I received ... 1211212042.jpg1211212038.jpg
Frank Daniels
Owner - z.scale.hobo
A Noch "Top Dealer"
Marklin Dealer and Z Locomotive Service
Irvine, California, USA
www.zscalehobo.com
Offline Mman  
#22 Posted : 12 December 2021 08:50:12(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 202
Location: England, Guildford
Wonderful! (Apart from the buffer turned thro 90 deg, is it loose?)
On British TV recently they shewed a display model where a normal circular track was mirrored by an upside down track above with a loco running round it held up by magnets. I see you have three upside down locos!
ChrisG
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Offline Toosmall  
#23 Posted : 12 December 2021 09:01:06(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 186
Location: Sydney
A bit of "orange peel" texture on those locomotives. The sort of texture I get out of 150ml touch up spray cans. Maybe they need to look at their painting process.

_MG_7728_084128.jpg
Offline Zme  
#24 Posted : 07 January 2022 20:32:00(UTC)
Zme

United States   
Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 516
Location: West Texas
Hello, hope all is well.

I received mine and I must say, I am very satisfied. When I pick this one up, I liken it to picking up a well optioned Swiss Army knife. Of course not the large ones, but not the small ones either. It is that heavy. In the box and in your hand, it is almost hard to realize this is a z scale, it is that large.

I have not seen the flaky plastic mentioned, I think the model is precise and well detailed. Some gear noise is apparent, but I expect it will quiet down in time. Otherwise smooth and strong.

I have found it to be a good puller too. Easily 10, 4 axle wagons, no issue. Around half of these have loads. Great model. I like it a lot.

Take good care.

Dwight

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