2 Pages12> Go to Page...

Expensive Rubbish Share  Email this topic  LinkBack Topic URL  Retweet this Topic  Share Topic on Google+  Like this Topic  Share on Facebook  Digg this Topic  Reddit this Topic  Share on Tumblr Options  Watch this topic  Print this topic View » Normal Threaded

Previous Topic Next Topic

Drongo		#1 Posted : 03 February 2021 06:48:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,226 Location: Sydney, NSW		A friend of mine bought the 39243 steam loco as well as the Orient Express coaches 42790 & 42791. The loco slips on the 24230 curve rails on a level track and the coaches won't couple together as the buffers are too long, preventing the couplers to join up. Now this an expensive train - in total over 1,700 euro. This is not good enough. Marklin have not properly tested the coaches, as experienced with other models. My friend purchased this train from an overseas dealer and he now has to post the train back to Germany. In my opinion, he should be reimbursed the whole amount he paid plus the postage back to Germany. In Australia we have a consumer law which says that if a product doesn't meet the purpose it was sold for, then a fully refund must be made. I'm sure Germany would have a similar law. Needless to say, the coaches and the loco should not have been released for sale before a thorough testing was carried out. If Marklin claim they carried out such testing, then they are lying. I've said it before and I'll say it again - Marklin are producing China quality at Germany prices. Wake up gents - stop buying Marklin and then Marklin management will wake up. I'm sorry for the rant, but spending this amount of money and not been able to use the train is beyond annoying.
		Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

	Wish to join the discussion?! Login to your marklin-users.net community | Forum accountor Register a new forum account. Or Connect via Facebook

foumaro		#2 Posted : 03 February 2021 08:48:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 4,420 Location: Attiki Athens Greece		Good morning,all these you describe to us seems to me very strange.I am running the 42795 and 42796 orient express sets,exactly the same with 42790 and 42791 with locomotives 39243,39241,39023,39020 with out any problem for the locomotives or wagons for the last five years.Even the lights of the wagons working perfect almost it is a big combo.The way those wagons coupling and ancoupling needs some attention,is it your friend careful with his trains? I am so huppy with my wagons so i have order and waiting the 42791 set,i am going to have a ten unit combo. Just my personal opinion. Edited by user 03 February 2021 12:28:39(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
5 users liked this useful post by foumaro		grnwtrs, ktsolias, David Dewar, mbarreto, dickinsonj
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

cookee_nz		#3 Posted : 03 February 2021 10:08:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC) Posts: 3,955 Location: Paremata, Wellington		Originally Posted by: Drongo A friend of mine bought the 39243 steam loco as well as the Orient Express coaches 42790 & 42791. The loco slips on the 24230 curve rails on a level track and the coaches won't couple together as the buffers are too long, preventing the couplers to join up. Now this an expensive train - in total over 1,700 euro. This is not good enough. Marklin have not properly tested the coaches, as experienced with other models. My friend purchased this train from an overseas dealer and he now has to post the train back to Germany. In my opinion, he should be reimbursed the whole amount he paid plus the postage back to Germany. In Australia we have a consumer law which says that if a product doesn't meet the purpose it was sold for, then a fully refund must be made. I'm sure Germany would have a similar law. Needless to say, the coaches and the loco should not have been released for sale before a thorough testing was carried out. If Marklin claim they carried out such testing, then they are lying. I've said it before and I'll say it again - Marklin are producing China quality at Germany prices. Wake up gents - stop buying Marklin and then Marklin management will wake up. I'm sorry for the rant, but spending this amount of money and not been able to use the train is beyond annoying. There's a lot of assumption there to be honest (without wanting to sound critical) There could be any number of reasons for the issues described, something becoming dislodged in transport would be the first pick Something dislodged during unpacking and/or placing on the layout is another possibility. Some photos showing the actual problem, the track etc might have got some quick suggestions here before having to ship it back to Europe. As for protection under consumer law, buying from an Australian Dealer would have given that level pf protection, and a local return address if needed. Or indeed even from an NZ dealer, at least we're a bit closer, and we speak much the same language, usually So if the decision was made to purchase from Europe, we have to assume it was probably price-driven, or perhaps availability, or maybe something else again. I just think it's a bit premature to lambast Märklin in this way when we are only given a small portion of the full story. If he has not yet shipped it back, let's see what we can do collectively to help. Regards from Wellington Cookee
		Cookee Wellington
		WWW Facebook Google+
2 users liked this useful post by cookee_nz		ixldoc, mbarreto
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

David Dewar		#4 Posted : 03 February 2021 11:50:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,342 Location: Scotland		Most unlikely that the loco and coaches won’t go round curves. As has been suggested I will not stop buying Marklin because of the above. Why not post a video if possible so we can see the problem. I have had problems with some coaches but it is sorted easily by looking at the wheels etc which could have been moved in transit. Coupler pockets may also have been damaged and could be checked by removing the coach body.. I dont have any of these models but I am sure many others will and run without any bother.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Copenhagen		#5 Posted : 03 February 2021 12:16:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC) Posts: 375 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark		Isn't this the train and coaches?: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=00gTWUJZPLw If you search for märklin 39243 on youtube you'll find other examples of the train running fine. The locomotive can't run on R1 though (said in the manual).
2 users liked this useful post by Copenhagen		river6109, David Dewar
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Drongo		#6 Posted : 03 February 2021 13:12:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,226 Location: Sydney, NSW		Originally Posted by: Copenhagen Isn't this the train and coaches?: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=00gTWUJZPLw If you search for märklin 39243 on youtube you'll find other examples of the train running fine. The locomotive can't run on R1 though (said in the manual). Yes, this is the train. If you look closely at the couplings you'll see that they are the 7319 drawbar couplers and the ones that my friend is using are the 72021 current conduction couplers. We could swap the couplers over however the drawbar couplers are a real pain trying to place the coaches on the track. The coaches are permanently coupled together and it is extremely difficult placing the coaches on the track. With the other CCC you can place one coach at a time on the track. Therefore, the installed 72021 couplers are NOT suitable and Marklin shouldn't have supplied them, meaning they didn't test them with these coaches. The lazy so and soes who suppose to carry out the test are telling their "Mushroom" bosses that everything is alright. Definition of a mushroom - they live in the dark and are fed S@#!.
		Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Copenhagen		#7 Posted : 03 February 2021 15:39:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC) Posts: 375 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark		Märklin should have been better at pointing out the radius requirements for the coaches. Page 24 of the manual shows bars for radius > R1 and couplers for radius > R2 (does "> R2" mean R3?). https://static.maerklin....81912d38f71584349661.pdf
1 user liked this useful post by Copenhagen		franciscohg
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

kiwiAlan		#8 Posted : 03 February 2021 16:20:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,109 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		Originally Posted by: Copenhagen Märklin should have been better at pointing out the radius requirements for the coaches. Page 24 of the manual shows bars for radius > R1 and couplers for radius > R2 (does "> R2" mean R3?). https://static.maerklin....81912d38f71584349661.pdf This does surprise me as earlier versions of these coaches operate happily on R1 using 72021 couplings. But it seems to me that before going on a rant one should read the manual properly ...
2 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan		David Dewar, franciscohg
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

mrmarklin		#9 Posted : 03 February 2021 16:59:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 895 Location: Burney, CA		I have these passenger sets on my layout right now, using the couplers, not draw bars, and they run fine. There are a few R1 curves to run through. No S curves, though. I’m using C Track.
		From the People's Republik of Kalifornia
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

H0		#10 Posted : 03 February 2021 17:01:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan This does surprise me as earlier versions of these coaches operate happily on R1 using 72021 couplings. IIRC there were discussions about the new 72021 causing derailments where the old type of 72021 worked fine.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
1 user liked this useful post by H0		mbarreto
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Goofy		#11 Posted : 03 February 2021 17:28:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		Even long coaches result higher draw pull power for locomotive and Märklin steam locomotive are weaker than heavy diesel and electric locomotive with better low chassis. The bigger curve radii the lesser draw pull power for the locomotive by pull long coaches. Expensive rubbish!??
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

David Dewar		#12 Posted : 03 February 2021 18:26:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,342 Location: Scotland		Might be better if the owner of the loco and coaches came on and could then be helped. The instructions seem fairly clear on couplings.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

mrmarklin		#13 Posted : 03 February 2021 18:30:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 895 Location: Burney, CA		Originally Posted by: David Dewar Might be better if the owner of the loco and coaches came on and could then be helped. The instructions seem fairly clear on couplings. IIRC I have done nothing special with the couplings.
		From the People's Republik of Kalifornia
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Bigdaddynz		#14 Posted : 04 February 2021 01:46:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,665 Location: New Zealand		Originally Posted by: Drongo Needless to say, the coaches and the loco should not have been released for sale before a thorough testing was carried out. If Marklin claim they carried out such testing, then they are lying. Originally Posted by: Drongo ....the installed 72021 couplers are NOT suitable and Marklin shouldn't have supplied them, meaning they didn't test them with these coaches. The lazy so and soes who suppose to carry out the test are telling their "Mushroom" bosses that everything is alright. Them's pretty harsh words and dare I say completely without proof. I don't know specifically what testing was done on your coaches or on 72021 couplers, but here's some pictures of test tracks Marklin have in the factory. As you can see they are quite comprehensive. While I suspect they wouldn't test every item they would test representative samples of each item. You keep on ranting on about bad Marklin quality, but you seem to keep on purchasing items only to have further rants. A definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing but expect a different outcome!
		WWW BLOG
5 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz		H0, Copenhagen, DaleSchultz, dickinsonj, costing
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

H0		#15 Posted : 04 February 2021 09:18:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz While I suspect they wouldn't test every item they would test representative samples of each item. They do some test runs with pre-production samples on the large layouts before production starts (at least I hope they do). They have smaller layouts where every loco should get a short test run. I had a loco arrive without brushes, so I'm not sure they really test every loco. AFAIK they do not make test runs for coaches after production. I don't think there is more than just a short lights test for coaches with interior lights.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
4 users liked this useful post by H0		Bigdaddynz, Unholz, mbarreto, Marklineisenbahn
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

foumaro		#16 Posted : 04 February 2021 10:12:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 4,420 Location: Attiki Athens Greece		Marklin making this kind of wagons for a lot of years,in many versions.It is impossible that the wagons have an operation problem and nobody noticed after so many years and so many editions.If our friend running the cars with the bars, the great weight of the combo will cause problem in turns and downhills.
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

bph		#17 Posted : 04 February 2021 10:52:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC) Posts: 996		Originally Posted by: H0 I don't think there is more than just a short lights test for coaches with interior lights. I'm not gonna say they don't test, but I had a 26922 coach that arrived completely without the led board. I was quite surprised when I discovered it. I also have the 39241+42795+42796. All wagons are fitted with the "new" Marklin 72021/E115737 and not the RTS edition. it seems to work fine, but then again I don't drive them too much since I don't have a permanent layout yet.
1 user liked this useful post by bph		H0
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

David Dewar		#18 Posted : 04 February 2021 11:56:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,342 Location: Scotland		Sent message to Marklin to confirm as Tom says that new production coaches are not tested. Find it amazing if they don’t run a new production coach round a layout. For those concerned about faulty locos MSL test mine before despatch andI presume they do this with all locos they sell. As said previously it would be better if we were hearing from the owner of the items. Also if you think Marklin is rubbish and don’t like the brand why buy it or even other to join aMarklin forum.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

H0		#19 Posted : 04 February 2021 12:19:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: David Dewar Sent message to Marklin to confirm as Tom says that new production coaches are not tested. To make my point clear: I don't know if they test prototypes of new production runs - I hope they do. No need to re-test pure livery variations, but with new coupler types they should be tested again. But they do not give every assembled coach a test run on the layout. We had a thread on this forum where coaches had been shipped with wrong coupler pockets that caused derailments in curves. The design was correct, but some coaches had been made with wrong parts leading to failures for certain batches. I already had tank cars that derailed because parts of the trucks had been mounted the wrong way around. Not all cars of the tank car set were affected. So most likely the model is not rubbish, but some customers may have received faulty items.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
5 users liked this useful post by H0		Unholz, kimballthurlow, ixldoc, mbarreto, Marklineisenbahn
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

David Dewar		#20 Posted : 04 February 2021 13:45:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,342 Location: Scotland		I would not expect all coaches to be tested but new productions should I hope that I can confirm that this is done. This thread has too many suggestions that Marklin are producing faulty equipment when as can be seen from others users this is not the case. All manufacturers will make items which have faults and in the desire to reduce costs and increase profits this is becoming more noticeable. I never understand why those who do not like the brand and always raise anything they think is faulty buy the models. Anyway will get back when I hear from Marklin regarding tests on coaches. I do think better instructions should be supplied with models. Coaches these days are far too expensive for what is just a plastic toy.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
2 users liked this useful post by David Dewar		grnwtrs, foumaro
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

scraigen		#21 Posted : 05 February 2021 17:53:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 299 Location: Sheffield,		I have coach set 41308 which doesn't go around R1 K-track curves properly, the flanges start to rub on the body causing significant drag usually enough to cause the loco pulling them to slip. My 4228 Rheingold coach set derails frequently if I use M's current conducting couplers, they catch under the buffers if I remember right. So I do sympathise with the OP, bold move Drongo daring to criticise M on this forum
		Must build something
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

mrmarklin		#22 Posted : 05 February 2021 18:33:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 895 Location: Burney, CA		Originally Posted by: scraigen I have coach set 41308 which doesn't go around R1 K-track curves properly, the flanges start to rub on the body causing significant drag usually enough to cause the loco pulling them to slip. My 4228 Rheingold coach set derails frequently if I use M's current conducting couplers, they catch under the buffers if I remember right. In fairness, the 4228 set was designed with drawbars, not close couplers. AFAIK, RTS had not yet invented these when 4228 was released.
		From the People's Republik of Kalifornia
2 users liked this useful post by mrmarklin		David Dewar, Bigdaddynz
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Bigdaddynz		#23 Posted : 05 February 2021 20:39:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,665 Location: New Zealand		Originally Posted by: scraigen So I do sympathise with the OP, bold move Drongo daring to criticise M on this forum Mate this is mild. If Greg had been posting these types of comment around 2008 when a certain previous member was here.........
		WWW BLOG
4 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz		scraigen, cookee_nz, David Dewar, mjrallare
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Munich 1860		#24 Posted : 07 February 2021 13:35:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,058 Location: Neu-Ulm, Bavaria		Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Originally Posted by: scraigen So I do sympathise with the OP, bold move Drongo daring to criticise M on this forum Mate this is mild. If Greg had been posting these types of comment around 2008 when a certain previous member was here......... I really wonder how Lutz has been doing all these years, and also whether he might have mellowed a little bit ....
		I like M-track and my things that run on it were built between 1959 and 1972.
2 users liked this useful post by Munich 1860		Webmaster, Bigdaddynz
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Goofy		#25 Posted : 07 February 2021 16:43:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Them's pretty harsh words and dare I say completely without proof. I don't know specifically what testing was done on your coaches or on 72021 couplers, but here's some pictures of test tracks Marklin have in the factory. As you can see they are quite comprehensive. While I suspect they wouldn't test every item they would test representative samples of each item. You keep on ranting on about bad Marklin quality, but you seem to keep on purchasing items only to have further rants. A definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing but expect a different outcome! Those pictures does not tell IF Märklin test this way with the wagons pulled by of difference locomotives. I am surprised to see S curves on the test track when Märklin recommended by self do not use S curves on your layout.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Copenhagen		#26 Posted : 07 February 2021 19:57:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC) Posts: 375 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark		Originally Posted by: Goofy I am surprised to see S curves on the test track when Märklin recommended by self do not use S curves on your layout. That really goes to show how much Märklin care about their customers and users. They know that we can't always have ideal layouts and that we have to make do with what limited space we have (using lots of R1 radii for example). I've almost never had problems with Märklin gear going through the odd S-curve or other weird track combinations. But with other brands and makes I've often had to make lots of changes and adjustments to couplers, bodywork, buffers etc to secure smooth and safe navigation through "tough" spots.
2 users liked this useful post by Copenhagen		David Dewar, kimballthurlow
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

dominator		#27 Posted : 07 February 2021 21:17:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC) Posts: 1,196 Location: Kerikeri		ANDERS, BY HAVING S CURVES ON THEIR TEST TRACKS, THEY CAN PROVE WHICH PRODUCTS SHOULD NOT BE USED ON S CURVES.
		Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Bryan		#28 Posted : 07 February 2021 22:53:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2010(UTC) Posts: 211 Location: Bowral, NSW, Australia		Dear All I can never understand general comments about poor Marklin quality, however there are always production exceptions. From my experience with Marklin, they take their quality and backup very seriously. Just the fact that they have a full factory service department and specially appointed service agents are very good points. Their spare parts infantry for instance numbers about 7000 items and some parts are available for even 1950’s locomotives. The big question would be, do any other model train companies offer the same after sales service. Companies like Hornby Hobbies offer very few spares and only for a short duration, as for a Hornby factory service department, it does not exist. So the question is, which other model train manufactures offer a similar service backup like Marklin? Regards David
		WWW
4 users liked this useful post by Bryan		David Dewar, kimballthurlow, ixldoc, davo_vespa
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

JohnjeanB		#29 Posted : 07 February 2021 23:29:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,124 Location: Paris, France		Originally Posted by: scraigen I have coach set 41308 which doesn't go around R1 K-track curves properly, the flanges start to rub on the body causing significant drag usually enough to cause the loco pulling them to slip. My 4228 Rheingold coach set derails frequently if I use M's current conducting couplers, they catch under the buffers if I remember right. So I do sympathise with the OP, bold move Drongo daring to criticise M on this forum Hi My coach set 4228 Rheingold runs perfect on R1, S curves etc. It has the specific of NOT OBSERVING NEM standards (distance between NEM pockets) but Märklin provides shorter current-conducting coupler bars with the kit. So IMO no real fault by Märklin. In your case, the problem is that you use M's current conducting couplers (they were not existing at the time) I have purchased quite a lot of Märklin items from 1961 until now (more than 100 locos, 100 switches (M, C, K), others and here is my experience * yes Märklin is not perfect but it compares very well with the competition * on one occasion a quite new loco (SNCF 40100) developed a worm gear problem (only one boggie was tractive) fixed by Märklin at no cost * on one occasion I purchased a VT 95 insider (with 2 wheels luggage trailer) where the shop where I purchased it (Pullman in Paris) had to test 2 units before finding a good unit. * C track purchased between 1996 and 2000 became very brittle (broke easily) after a few years but in most cases I continued to use the tracks * C Track switch motors which are really a weak point (I had to replace 10 of them at my own cost). * one CS2 failure repaired at my cost but got a 5 A (60215) motherboard for a 150€ repair cost. So not perfect but I disagree when someone says Märklin does not test or Märklin quality is going down. IMO It is not true I suspect quite a number of issues our friends are observing are related to (1) far away shipment (Australia) or (2) second-hand purchases Cheers Jean
		My layout videos latest vid marshalling yard My Layout
5 users liked this useful post by JohnjeanB		Bigdaddynz, Eurobahnfan, Martti Mäntylä, mrmarklin, dickinsonj
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

scraigen		#30 Posted : 08 February 2021 00:21:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 299 Location: Sheffield,		Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB In your case, the problem is that you use M's current conducting couplers (they were not existing at the time) So I was foolish to think that Marklin coaches with current conducting NEM pockets would work with Marklin NEM current conducting couplers. Silly me. But seriously guys don’t get so wound up because someone might have a criticism of Marklin. It’s not personal. No need jump in there with ‘I have XXX num locos and coaches and only had x number of issues’. M does get things wrong, sometimes, just like any other company, we can argue about the frequency and seriousness of those things but they definitely do charge a premium price - or is someone going argue that as well?
		Must build something
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

franciscohg		#31 Posted : 08 February 2021 02:38:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,274 Location: Patagonia		Hello i dont want to summon bad demons for my future purchases, but i think so strange that almost always there are some people who concentrate most of faulty marklin items, if so..... Here you can see a similar train, running M track with 5% slope, and it even runs flawlessly on R1, provided that is flat terrain or downhill. I can later do a similar test with 39243. Regards
		German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
7 users liked this useful post by franciscohg		Johnvr, hxmiesa, David Dewar, Eurobahnfan, Webmaster, dominator, dickinsonj
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

hxmiesa		#32 Posted : 08 February 2021 06:48:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,520 Location: Spain		I dont think quality is getting worse! (it was never perfect in the first place) Personally my greatest amount of bad quality-experiences is from the 80'ies; Silberlingen control cab waggon shorting out. 27,0cm TEE waggon with badly alligned beige/red painting. Gas-kesselwagen with broken/missing steps on stairs. (DSB "BP" where the faulty piece (white plastic) was painted black, proving that the fault was present before painting! -quite a disgrace!!!) BR151 electric missing a spring on the panto. -All bought NEW from shops in Denmark and Germany. The rugged (analogue) interior of the locos is very sturdy, and any fault can normally be remedied by one-self. Todays highly sofisticated locos -full of advanced electronics, are much more delicate and difficult to repair, giving way to many more possible failure-points. Currently, the problems that I incounter are always with the electronics. Tthe mecanical failure-rate of my adquisitions is very low! Guided coupling-pockets which have dislodged during transport or during unboxing; I dont consider them factory-faults, although one could critizice the general design and/or packaging. Originally Posted by: Munich 1860 I really wonder how Lutz has been doing all these years, and also whether he might have mellowed a little bit .... I think that grumpyness only increases in the old age... -Generally speaking.
		Best regards Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain") http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
		WWW
3 users liked this useful post by hxmiesa		Legless, Eurobahnfan, Munich 1860
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Goofy		#33 Posted : 08 February 2021 09:26:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		Originally Posted by: Copenhagen Originally Posted by: Goofy I am surprised to see S curves on the test track when Märklin recommended by self do not use S curves on your layout. That really goes to show how much Märklin care about their customers and users. They know that we can't always have ideal layouts and that we have to make do with what limited space we have (using lots of R1 radii for example). I've almost never had problems with Märklin gear going through the odd S-curve or other weird track combinations. But with other brands and makes I've often had to make lots of changes and adjustments to couplers, bodywork, buffers etc to secure smooth and safe navigation through "tough" spots. No it is not correct. Märklinist do really have problem sometimes to use too narrow curves which is not good for the long coaches. In the golden age Märklin did always massproduce wagons at 24,0 cm in the lenght and keep on same with the curve radii at 360 mm. Today Märklin offer longer coaches and still customer use 360 mm narrow curves which are not good for the long coaches. S curves does not support anyway when there is no recommended by Märklin to use mad curves on the layout.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Bigdaddynz		#34 Posted : 08 February 2021 09:27:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,665 Location: New Zealand		Originally Posted by: Munich 1860 I really wonder how Lutz has been doing all these years, and also whether he might have mellowed a little bit .... There was a 2 page spread about him in the Marklin Insider Magazine 02-2018 celebrating his 25 year anniversary as an Insider member, so he's still around the Marklin community.
		WWW BLOG
1 user liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz		Munich 1860
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Bigdaddynz		#35 Posted : 08 February 2021 09:31:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,665 Location: New Zealand		Originally Posted by: Goofy No it is not correct. And yet contrary to what you say, Marklin is very obviously testing with S curves - and not only one set but multiple sets in succession!
		WWW BLOG
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

ocram63_uk		#36 Posted : 08 February 2021 11:20:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC) Posts: 704 Location: England, Suffolk		On S curves everybody says NO, Marklin, Roco, Peco and the lot. I believe they don't even exist on real railways. S curves are also banned in every manual on layout diagrams. Independently of the lenght of any coach !!
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Bigdaddynz		#37 Posted : 08 February 2021 11:34:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,665 Location: New Zealand		And yet they test for them because in the real world people use S curves contrary to what the manufacturers and Goofy say. Are we to have S curve police now because naughty model train enthusiasts sneak S curves onto their layouts?
		WWW BLOG
3 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz		hxmiesa, Webmaster, dickinsonj
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

ocram63_uk		#38 Posted : 08 February 2021 11:52:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC) Posts: 704 Location: England, Suffolk		obviously not, there is already too much freedom limitation in the world!! But, some people spend days in front of a computer reading on how to build a layout and these guidelines can be found. So I avoid S tracks and if I have to use them then I insert a straight piece of track before the first and the seond bend :-) You can do what you want on your layout but if it doesn't perform like you expect it to, because of these 'mistakes', then you can't blame the producer.
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Purellum		#39 Posted : 08 February 2021 12:00:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,505 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		Actually, on most of the Märklin starter- or extension-sets that has a siding, the picture on the box shows S-curves........... https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/78752/ Per.
		If you can dream it, you can do it! I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide. In case this is not legally possible: I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.
2 users liked this useful post by Purellum		H0, Bigdaddynz
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

scraigen		#40 Posted : 08 February 2021 12:12:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 299 Location: Sheffield,		Way off topic with S-curve discussion.
		Must build something
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

H0		#41 Posted : 08 February 2021 12:29:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk On S curves everybody says NO, Marklin, Roco, Peco and the lot. I believe they don't even exist on real railways. S curves are also banned in every manual on layout diagrams. What do you get when you connect parallel tracks with a pair of 24611 or 24612? An S curve. I have some MäTrix coaches where a minimum radius of 400 is recommended (but not required) for S curves. When derailments occurs because buffers overlap with buffers or when couplers collide with buffers, then the track plan (e.g. S curves) can be important. And sometimes trains only derail when they are pushed. In my experience curves (no S curves, but right curve, straight, right curve) with a short straight track in between (e.g. 24064 or 24077) can be a problem for the guiding mechanism.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
2 users liked this useful post by H0		Bigdaddynz, Copenhagen
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Copenhagen		#42 Posted : 08 February 2021 14:56:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC) Posts: 375 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark		Originally Posted by: Goofy Originally Posted by: Copenhagen Originally Posted by: Goofy I am surprised to see S curves on the test track when Märklin recommended by self do not use S curves on your layout. That really goes to show how much Märklin care about their customers and users. They know that we can't always have ideal layouts and that we have to make do with what limited space we have (using lots of R1 radii for example). I've almost never had problems with Märklin gear going through the odd S-curve or other weird track combinations. But with other brands and makes I've often had to make lots of changes and adjustments to couplers, bodywork, buffers etc to secure smooth and safe navigation through "tough" spots. No it is not correct. Märklinist do really have problem sometimes to use too narrow curves which is not good for the long coaches. In the golden age Märklin did always massproduce wagons at 24,0 cm in the lenght and keep on same with the curve radii at 360 mm. Today Märklin offer longer coaches and still customer use 360 mm narrow curves which are not good for the long coaches. S curves does not support anyway when there is no recommended by Märklin to use mad curves on the layout. I have to reply to this. I have several coach sets of 28cm long coaches that run buttery smooth through almost full circle R1 tracks. I have a return loop of R1 tracks that ends with two opposing R1 tracks that the same coaches navigate buttery smooth too. In fact even long coaches with bogies will run through R1 curves with less resistance than many two-axle freight cars or coaches - because of the bogies. It may not look pretty with long coaches in R1 but that's a different story.
1 user liked this useful post by Copenhagen		hxmiesa
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

JohnjeanB		#43 Posted : 08 February 2021 15:25:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,124 Location: Paris, France		Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk On S curves everybody says NO, Marklin, Roco, Peco and the lot. I believe they don't even exist on real railways. S curves are also banned in every manual on layout diagrams. Independently of the lenght of any coach !! Hi Of course S curves were always there and unavoidable: when you have a pair of points between 2 parallel tracks you have an S curve. Of course Märklin advises to avoid using them on R1 as it could create problems on long coaches and locos Of course Märklin has to test MUCH WORSE conditions than normal usage hence the S curves in testing. Of course S curves are only advised in PLAN condition (plan base) and not in the start / end of a gradient. Cheers Jean
		My layout videos latest vid marshalling yard My Layout
2 users liked this useful post by JohnjeanB		Purellum, dickinsonj
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

David Dewar		#44 Posted : 08 February 2021 19:07:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,342 Location: Scotland		This thread is heading nowhere without us hearing from the owner or his friend if the original problem has been sold.. We are told that the units are rubbish is is this the case or not.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Goofy		#45 Posted : 08 February 2021 19:15:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		I plan soon to build up a new layout and this time i choice minimum 600 mm in curve radii. This is too avoid derailment by use long coaches on the narrow radii and it will looks more realism with larger curve radii for the passenger cars at 224-303 mm in the length. This is a good idea by use other competitor wagons too. If you want to use narrow curve radii like 360 mm i recommended you to use smaller passenger cars.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

scraigen		#46 Posted : 08 February 2021 19:21:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 299 Location: Sheffield,		Originally Posted by: David Dewar This thread is heading nowhere without us hearing from the owner or his friend if the original problem has been sold.. We are told that the units are rubbish is is this the case or not. Yup - heading nowhere. Perhaps a moderator could lock it? Drongo has not participated beyond lobbing the initial hand-grenade of questioning Marklin cost vs quality, and now we're arguing about S-curves.
		Must build something
1 user liked this useful post by scraigen		dominator
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

H0		#47 Posted : 08 February 2021 19:22:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Goofy If you want to use narrow curve radii like 360 mm i recommended you to use smaller passenger cars. This thread is about problems with shorter coaches (Orient Express and Rheingold ’28).
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Webmaster		#48 Posted : 08 February 2021 21:16:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC) Posts: 11,161		Still waiting for some on topic feedback from our friend Drongo, who asked the original question about his observations... S-curve discussions are quite far from the original issue raised regarding a rather expensive set of loco & coaches.
		Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service... He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
		WWW Facebook Twitter
1 user liked this useful post by Webmaster		mvd71
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Bigdaddynz		#49 Posted : 08 February 2021 23:00:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,665 Location: New Zealand		The S curve question came out of a comment by Goofy in response to one of the pictures of the Marklin test tracks I posted which were in response to Greg's comment about Marklin's lack of testing. I note that I have a few S curves on my layout with which I've never had a problem. I have a 42283 Rheingold set which I purchased 2nd hand and the only time I've run it was on our club's modular layout. I did have issues with it derailing when using the coupler drawbars but haven't been back to it to find a proper setup / solution for it.
		WWW BLOG
1 user liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz		Joe Meiring
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Goofy		#50 Posted : 09 February 2021 10:13:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		S curvers are nightmare for the long coaches cause of buffers and short couples. Even in the narrow radii like 360 mm it is problem. TS did start topic about curves and buffers. If not less Märklin do have design flaws on the model?
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Users browsing this topic

Guest

2 Pages12> Go to Page...