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Offline morsing  
#51 Posted : 03 March 2020 22:16:02(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 503
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post


I drag the train to another block, Rocrail sets all the points correctly, but I have to set the throttle either in Rocrail or using the big red knob...



That in itself does not sound correct. When you are in Automatic mode and drag the loco from its current block to a destination block you should not have to touch the throttle. The loco speed is determined by whatever the Rocrail speed settings are for the departing block, destination block or the loco default. If you are controlling the loco speed using either the Rocrail throttle or the big red knob, something is set up incorrectly.


Half-automatic. You just asked me what my definition of half-automatic was.

But yes, it should just be able to go on its own.

But really, where can I look to see why it is not going?
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline PMPeter  
#52 Posted : 03 March 2020 22:40:14(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,061
Location: Port Moody, BC
Hard to say without seeing the Properties of the Blocks, the Route and the Loco and the screen shot. Here are common reasons I have found over the years that prevented a Loco from moving:

1. The loco is still in Auto from a previous request and needs to be Reset and then restarted.
2. The loco is still being considered to be controlled by the CS2
3. The Route is not healthy
4. The Loco is stuck in Reverse operation and needs to be released to go back to Forward operation
5. The block exit arrow and the loco forward direction do not agree.
6. A signal is configured and is in the Stop mode. It will sit there until the signal is released to Go.

There is no magical bullet that I am aware of that will tell you why a loco will not start. You just have to go step by step until you find the setting or physical placement error.

Peter
Offline applor  
#53 Posted : 03 March 2020 23:08:57(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,473
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
So the route sets correctly (points change, block status changes to reserved etc) but the speed on the loc does not change? Does your route have speed set (ie block) and block speed set appropriately?
Right click on the loc/block and set it to automatic (not half)?


Can you please upload your plan and rocrail.ini so we can look and test?

You are doing these tests live aren't you? Have you just tried doing it virtually with simulated sensors?
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#54 Posted : 03 March 2020 23:10:14(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 142
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
If Rocrail can find a path from, say, bk7 to bk8 in half automatic mode, it should do the same in full automatic mode as well.

I presume the scenario we are talking about is that the loco resides in bk7, with arrow pointing at bk32. Then I assume you use the pop-up menu to issue the command "Set destination" and select, say, bk8 from the window that pops up. Exactly what happens at this point? In particular, does Rocrail find a intermediate destination block such as bk43 to make progress towards bk8?

Edit: Concur with what applor said - it is much easier to find the problem with the full data.
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
Offline morsing  
#55 Posted : 04 March 2020 10:06:33(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 503
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire

Hi,

Files here:

http://www.morsing.cc/Trains/rocrail.ini
http://www.morsing.cc/Trains/plan.xml


Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
Hard to say without seeing the Properties of the Blocks, the Route and the Loco and the screen shot. Here are common reasons I have found over the years that prevented a Loco from moving:

1. The loco is still in Auto from a previous request and needs to be Reset and then restarted.
2. The loco is still being considered to be controlled by the CS2
3. The Route is not healthy
4. The Loco is stuck in Reverse operation and needs to be released to go back to Forward operation
5. The block exit arrow and the loco forward direction do not agree.
6. A signal is configured and is in the Stop mode. It will sit there until the signal is released to Go.


1. Done many times.
2. It goes to other blocks fine.
3. Have run a health check. Will run an extended check as well.
4. Could be, but it's a terminal block and it goes to other blocks fine.

5. Yes, that old chestnut. This, Googling, seems to be the main reason for so many rail-roaders not having fun runnning their trains...

6. I don't have signals.

Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post

There is no magical bullet that I am aware of that will tell you why a loco will not start. You just have to go step by step until you find the setting or physical placement error.

Peter


Sadly, there isn't. It's very frustrating that 100+ lines go in the trace file every time you try to start a train, and they can't be bothered to put in there why it won't go.
It goes through LC_CHECK, LC_ROUTE_, LC_OK, LC_GO, and it can't just put LC_NO_PERMISSION or _LC_WRONG_DIRECTION?
It really seem to ruin the fun for a lot of people and it's not even open source anymore, so can't check what it does or update it. It would be so easy for them to log the reason for the no-go.

And I still can't see a way to determine direction and block enter settings. It seems to be trial-and-error is the only option?

I have just tried virtual running, and it will go to-and-fro bk8 and bk37.

Thanks


-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#56 Posted : 04 March 2020 19:32:42(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 142
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
Hi morsing, I just looked into your plan files.

First, I took the liberty of re-doing the routing, before which I checked the useful tick boxes "Assign signals to blocks" and "assign feedbacks to blocks" in "Rocrail properties" - "Router". This assigns automatically the "enter" and "in" events to sensors except blocks bl28 and bl35 that only had one sensor that needs to be defined as "enter2in" for both directions. (You probably intended to give bk28 two sensors.) Blocks bk2, bk3, and bk4 had three sensors each. I think they should be defined as "enter", "shortin" and "in" to make things work as usual. This is where Rocrail needs manual help.

Some of the blocks representing side tracks were defined as "Terminal station", some not (such as bk31, bk33, bk35, bk45 etc.). Again I took the liberty of changing all these to "Terminal station"´s. With this, these blocks should work as intended. Just make sure that when you place a loco in a terminal block with "Set locomotive assignment", the direction arrow points towards the exit direction. Apply "Swap logical direction" if not.

Then I noted that switches 9, 22, 28 and 45 were defined with the type "Double Crossing". Am I correct assuming that they represent C track 24624 points? If so, they should be defined with the type "Crossing" - the "Double Crossing" is some kind of more complex thing with two solenoids.

I also assigned random but unique identifiers to all sensors so that the plan can better be simulated.

After this, everything seems to work fine in simulated auto mode with manually clicking the sensors in proper sequence. I even sent four locos running, and it seemed fine.

I don't know if any of this helps to make the locos move - that needs to be tested on a real track. I cannot see a reason why they wouldn't move, as long as their interfaces are properly defined so that they obey commands from Rocrail.
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Martti Mäntylä
Offline morsing  
#57 Posted : 04 March 2020 20:00:02(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 503
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Hi Martti,

Thanks for doing all that. (Did you upload it somewhere for me to pick up?)

Maybe I should have clarified:

1) I used the "Router" to set-up all the routing
2) I have only looked at and played with blocks 7, 8, 9, 37 & 43

You're right, sw45 is a 24624, I did wonder.

It seems to work better in simulated mode than actually running. When I try to run the locos, it sets the routes and even changes direction on them correctly but then nothing happens.

I will keep trying. I think I need to tidy up the sensors a bit as well.

Thanks
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#58 Posted : 04 March 2020 20:37:37(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 142
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
I sent a PM with link.
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Martti Mäntylä
Offline applor  
#59 Posted : 04 March 2020 22:39:00(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,473
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: Martti Mäntylä Go to Quoted Post
Am I correct assuming that they represent C track 24624 points? If so, they should be defined with the type "Crossing" - the "Double Crossing" is some kind of more complex thing with two solenoids.


Yes it is used for Marklin K track 2275 double slip which has two motors.


Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post
Hi Martti,

1) I used the "Router" to set-up all the routing

Thanks


I think given that you want to properly understand how things are working that you should be manually configuring your routes etc.
I did all mine manually and thought it necessary anyways - auto route gen will add all sorts of combinations that you may not want.

I haven't looked at your plan though since Martti has already done that and identified all the problems.

Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post


It seems to work better in simulated mode than actually running. When I try to run the locos, it sets the routes and even changes direction on them correctly but then nothing happens.

Thanks


Well that is easy to diagnose because in Rocrail it shows the speed applied. If Rocrail shows for that loco the throttle set to 80 (for example) and the train is not moving, then there is a problem its communication with the loco (ie address)
If Rocrail shows no speed, then it's an issue with your plan.

If its a plan problem then we can look at it and help find the cause.

Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post


And I still can't see a way to determine direction and block enter settings. It seems to be trial-and-error is the only option?



What do you mean? We said before the train in the block will have a little arrow to show its direction.

As for block enter settings, blocks have a + side (the opposite end is therefore -). The route needs to correctly specify which direction the train is leaving and arriving from, so either + or - must be specified.

For example to travel from bk5 to bk35 it would be bk5 (-) to bk35 (+). Opposite direction would be bk35 (+) to bk5 (-).

Rocrail will then check if the loco is facing the right direction to take that route.
So if your loc in bk5 has the arrow facing towards the + end, then it cannot use route bk5 (-) to bk35 (+) because it is facing the wrong way.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by applor
Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#60 Posted : 05 March 2020 01:48:19(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 142
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
Two more thoughts.

One difference between full automatic mode and drag-and-drop routing is that in the first case Rocrail will apply all constraints defined via block and loco types (and also others such as train lengths). If these mismatch, the block is out of range for full automatic mode, even if it is reachable via drag-and-drop. I see that you have defined quite a few loco and block types, and also some block permissions. I would recommend taking them all out for the time being: they just complicate matters. You can re-enter them once locos move as expected and you know what you want to achieve.

Second, if you want to test only blocks 7, 8, 9, 37 & 43, you can prevent Rocrail from even considering any other parts of the plan by putting all neighbouring blocks (24, 44, 45, 35, 20, 21) out of operation.

By the way, there were two locos with address "5".
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
Offline morsing  
#61 Posted : 05 March 2020 09:06:08(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 503
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Originally Posted by: Martti Mäntylä Go to Quoted Post
One difference between full automatic mode and drag-and-drop routing is that in the first case Rocrail will apply all constraints defined via block and loco types (and also others such as train lengths). If these mismatch, the block is out of range for full automatic mode, even if it is reachable via drag-and-drop. I see that you have defined quite a few loco and block types, and also some block permissions. I would recommend taking them all out for the time being: they just complicate matters. You can re-enter them once locos move as expected and you know what you want to achieve.


Thanks Martti, I think I added the permissions in desparation!

But I think it actually works now! The trains will now run to bk8 and bk37 although it all stops when they get there because of incorrectly defined sensors, so I haven't been able to test it much.

sw46 still have issues and usually doesn't do much although it works manually.

And thanks for the tip about puttting blocks out of operation!

Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post

I think given that you want to properly understand how things are working that you should be manually configuring your routes etc.
I did all mine manually and thought it necessary anyways - auto route gen will add all sorts of combinations that you may not want.


That's how I started out, but I was recommended using the router several times. I may replace routes manually one at a time going forward.

Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post


And I still can't see a way to determine direction and block enter settings. It seems to be trial-and-error is the only option?



What do you mean? We said before the train in the block will have a little arrow to show its direction.


But that is not my experience and based on the link I posted further back, a lot of people feel that way.

Upwards and onwards, need to moved some sensors around and get sw46 to work properly and do some more testing, then I can look at adding more routes.

Thanks
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by morsing
Offline morsing  
#62 Posted : 23 March 2020 13:30:21(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 503
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
This is just doing my head in... So high on the success of blocks 37, 7, 8 & 43 now working, I started wiring up the rest of the station. I have removed anything not configured, and made sure all points and sensors respond correctly and match up on the CS3 and in Rocrail.

Both basic and extended plan health check run clean now. I have tried using the router but now trying to setup routes manually.

What is just so odd is that router or manual, 44 to 4 always works, 44 to anything else (or back) doesn't. Even odder, dragging a loco from 44 to say, 47, it runs the loco to 4 and back to 44, then sets all the switches to go to 5 and changes direction on the loco, and then nothing happens! Ever...

I've spent a week on this... I'm pulling my hair out and just don't get how this software ever became to popular?!

Links to plan, ini and occ files here:

http://www.morsing.cc/Trains/plan.xml
http://www.morsing.cc/Trains/occ.xml
http://www.morsing.cc/Trains/rocrail.ini

Trace from loco deciding where to go but not going is below here. I'm hoping someone can help figure out what I am doing wrong.



20200323.121522.121 r9999I MY1121 OLoc 2347 placing for [MY1121] set to [FWD]
20200323.121522.121 r9999a MY1121 OModel 7500 occ: set loco [MY1121] in block [bk44]
20200323.121522.125 r9999I MY1121 OModel 7577 writing occupancy file [occ.xml]
20200323.121522.180 r9999I MY1121 OLoc 6383 set block[-] enterside for [MY1121] to [+], placing to [fwd]
20200323.121522.180 r9999a MY1121 OModel 7500 occ: set loco [MY1121] in block [bk44]
20200323.121522.184 r9999I MY1121 OModel 7577 writing occupancy file [occ.xml]
20200323.121527.850 r9999I mbusrdr8 OMBUS 1090 ping request from hash B37C
20200323.121527.850 r9999I mbusrdr8 OMBUS 1116 ping uid=6373750E version=12.62 typeid=0x0050 (Booster (GFP3))
20200323.121527.850 r9999I EFFBE700 OControl 1989 Program event 26: cv0=0 addr=1668510990 type=6
20200323.121532.303 r9999a MY1121 OLoc 4171 Loco [MY1121] mode=idle prevmode=wait reason= waittime=0
20200323.121532.304 r9999a 1450A700 OLcDrive 0064 Setting state for "MY1121" from LC_TIMER to LC_IDLE. timer=0 run=true
20200323.121532.304 r4201a 1450A700 OLcDrive 0068 next1Block for [MY1121] is [bk44]
20200323.121532.405 r9999a MY1121 OBlock 2067 block [bk44]: use random wait time 7
20200323.121532.405 r9999a MY1121 OModel 5851 try to find location for block [bk44]
20200323.121532.405 r9999a MY1121 OLoc 4171 Loco [MY1121] mode=auto prevmode=idle reason= waittime=0
20200323.121532.406 r4201a 1450A700 OLcDrive 0195 Setting state for "MY1121" from LC_IDLE to LC_FINDDEST.
20200323.121532.406 r4201a 1450A700 OLcDrive 0198 Finding destination for "MY1121", current block "bk44"...
20200323.121532.506 r2012a MY1121 OModel 6848 Using saved loco block enter side [+].
20200323.121532.506 r2011a MY1121 OModel 6859 Find destination from block [bk44]. Select the shortest=[False]
20200323.121532.506 r9999a MY1121 ORoute 2008 route 5-to-loco1 is not locked
20200323.121532.507 r9999a MY1121 ORoute 1000 blockid [bk44] in route [Maint-to-5] is --from--
20200323.121532.507 r2014a MY1121 OModel 6991 Evaluating route [Maint-to-5]...
20200323.121532.507 r9999a MY1121 OBlock 1939 Block [bk5] is free [-]
20200323.121532.507 r9999a MY1121 OModel 6524 check blockgroup for [bk5]
20200323.121532.507 r9999a MY1121 OModel 5851 try to find location for block [bk5]
20200323.121532.508 r2016a MY1121 OModel 7056 Check for the goto block [bk47]: Destination is [bk5][-].
20200323.121532.508 r2020a MY1121 OModel 7108 Found a BEST suited block [bk5] for loco [MY1121].
20200323.121532.508 r9999a MY1121 ORoute 1000 blockid [bk44] in route [Maint-to-4] is --from--
20200323.121532.508 r2014a MY1121 OModel 6991 Evaluating route [Maint-to-4]...
20200323.121532.508 r9999a MY1121 OBlock 1939 Block [bk4] is free [-]
20200323.121532.508 r9999a MY1121 OModel 6524 check blockgroup for [bk4]
20200323.121532.509 r9999a MY1121 OModel 5851 try to find location for block [bk4]
20200323.121532.509 r2016a MY1121 OModel 7056 Check for the goto block [bk47]: Destination is [bk4][-].
20200323.121532.509 r2020a MY1121 OModel 7108 Found a BEST suited block [bk4] for loco [MY1121].
20200323.121532.509 r9999a MY1121 OModel 5851 try to find location for block [bk5]
20200323.121532.510 r9999a MY1121 OModel 6781 Block [bk5][Maint-to-5] is suited for [MY1121] and picked from [2] choices; randChoice=0, total RandomRate=0 userandomrate=0
20200323.121532.510 r4210I 1450A700 OLcDrive 0138 Found destination for [MY1121]: [bk5] by route [Maint-to-5]
20200323.121532.511 r4211a 1450A700 OLcDrive 0145 Setting state for "MY1121" from LC_FINDDEST to LC_INITDEST.
20200323.121532.611 r4201a 1450A700 OLcDrive 0031 Init destination for [MY1121]...
20200323.121532.611 r9999a MY1121 ORoute 1000 blockid [bk44] in route [Maint-to-5] is --from--
20200323.121532.611 r4201a 1450A700 OLcDrive 0047 loco direction for [MY1121] is [forwards], route direction [fromTo], swappost[false]
20200323.121532.611 r9999a MY1121 OModel 6524 check blockgroup for [bk5]
20200323.121532.611 r9999a 1450A700 OLcDrive 0140 initialized blockgroup [-] for [MY1121]
20200323.121532.612 r9999a MY1121 OBlock 1939 Block [bk5] is free [-]
20200323.121532.612 r9999a MY1121 OBlock 3004 block bk5 locked for [MY1121][MY1121][bk44] in [normal] direction, indelay=0
20200323.121532.612 r9999a MY1121 OBlock 3154 Block [bk5] reset counters and event triggers
20200323.121532.612 r9999a MY1121 ORoute 0356 status of route Maint-to-5 is 1, locked by MY1121
20200323.121532.612 r9999a MY1121 OBlock 1296 [bk5] CAR COUNT = 0
20200323.121532.612 r9999a MY1121 OFBack 0408 [fb14] CAR COUNT = 0
20200323.121532.612 r9999a MY1121 OFBack 0408 [fb14] CAR COUNT = 0
20200323.121532.612 r9999a MY1121 OFBack 0408 [fb12] CAR COUNT = 0
20200323.121532.612 r9999a MY1121 OFBack 0408 [fb12] CAR COUNT = 0
20200323.121532.612 r9999a MY1121 ORoute 2165 Route [Maint-to-5] locked by [MY1121]
20200323.121532.612 r9999a MY1121 ORoute 2005 route [Maint-to-5] is locked by [MY1121]
20200323.121532.612 r9999a MY1121 ORoute 2005 route [Maint-to-5] is locked by [MY1121]
20200323.121532.612 r9999I MY1121 ORoute 0831 set route [Maint-to-5] for [MY1121]
20200323.121532.612 r9999a MY1121 OSwitch 0940 Switch "sw28" is locked by "MY1121".
20200323.121532.613 r9999I MY1121 OSwitch 1414 Switch [sw28] will be set to [turnout,0,0]
20200323.121532.613 r9999I 1450A700 OMBUS 0821 command=sw:turnout
20200323.121532.613 r9999c 1450A700 OMBUS 0630 set switch 3865 0:102.0 to turnout(1) flat=101
20200323.121532.613 r9999a MY1121 OSwitch 1684 broadcasting switch[sw28] state [turnout]
20200323.121532.613 r9999I MY1121 OSwitch 0180 CTC LED: m1=1 m2=0
20200323.121532.623 r9999a MY1121 OSwitch 0940 Switch "sw9" is locked by "MY1121".
20200323.121532.623 r9999I MY1121 OSwitch 1763 switch[sw9] starting command thread...
20200323.121532.623 r9999I tid0x000 OSwitch 1716 async command for switch[sw9] pause=1000
20200323.121532.623 r9999I tid0x000 OSwitch 1723 delay command for switch[sw9] 1000ms
20200323.121532.629 r9999c mbusrdr8 OMBUS 2142 accessory response UID=0x3865 flat=101 26:2 aspect=0 current=1 value=25
20200323.121532.629 r9999a EFFBE700 OModel 5401 trying to match switch event: 0:26:2:0 type=0 uidname=[]
20200323.121532.630 r9999I EFFBE700 OSwitch 2012 switch [sw28] reported addr=26 port=2 state=turnout (addr1=26(0) port1=2(102) addr2=13(98) port2=3(0))
20200323.121532.630 r9999I EFFBE700 OSwitch 2022 switch [sw28] fieldState1=1
20200323.121532.630 r9999I EFFBE700 OSwitch 2033 switch [sw28] fieldState1=1, fieldState2=0
20200323.121532.630 r9999I EFFBE700 OSwitch 2108 switch [sw28] field event: state=left(field:turnout) gatevalue=2 inv=0 fieldstate=turnout
20200323.121532.630 r9999I EFFBE700 OSwitch 0180 CTC LED: m1=0 m2=0
20200323.121532.631 r9999a EFFBE700 OModel 3788 no more switches found by address [26,2]
20200323.121532.633 r9999a MY1121 ORoute 0356 status of route Maint-to-5 is 1, locked by MY1121
20200323.121532.634 r9999a MY1121 OLoc 4741 <lc dir="true" V="0"/>

20200323.121532.634 r4201a 1450A700 OLcDrive 0119 Setting state for "MY1121" from LC_INITDEST to LC_CHECKROUTE.
20200323.121532.634 r9999a MY1121 OLoc 2948 more messages available...
20200323.121532.644 r9999a MY1121 OLoc 2886 new message 117:command nrruns=639849
20200323.121532.645 r9999a MY1121 OLoc 2135 Sending command...V=0 dir=fwd secaddr=false
20200323.121532.645 r9999I 1450A700 OMBUS 0821 command=lc:-
20200323.121532.645 r9999I 1450A700 OMBUS 0317 slot exist for MY1121
20200323.121532.645 r9999c 1450A700 OMBUS 0743 loco [MY1121] addr=0x4005 speed=0, dir=1 lights=1
20200323.121532.661 r9999I mbusrdr8 OMBUS 0261 slot found for MY1121 by address 5
20200323.121532.661 r9999c mbusrdr8 OMBUS 1995 loco 5 direction UID=0x4005 dir=1 forwards
20200323.121532.661 r9999a EFFBE700 OModel 5316 get loco/car by address -:5
20200323.121532.661 r9999a EFFBE700 OModel 5330 loco event for [MY1121]
20200323.121532.661 r9999a EFFBE700 OLoc 0864 event for loco MY1121: lc
20200323.121532.661 r9999a EFFBE700 OLoc 0907 ignore field event for [MY1121] while running in auto mode
20200323.121532.702 r9999I mbusrdr8 OMBUS 0261 slot found for MY1121 by address 5
20200323.121532.702 r9999c mbusrdr8 OMBUS 2029 loco 5 UID=0x4005 speed=0
20200323.121532.702 r9999a EFFBE700 OModel 5316 get loco/car by address -:5
20200323.121532.702 r9999a EFFBE700 OModel 5330 loco event for [MY1121]
20200323.121532.702 r9999a EFFBE700 OLoc 0864 event for loco MY1121: lc
20200323.121532.702 r9999a EFFBE700 OLoc 0907 ignore field event for [MY1121] while running in auto mode
20200323.121532.702 r9999c mbusrdr8 OMBUS 1959 loco 5 function UID=0x4005 f=0 value=1
20200323.121532.702 r9999a EFFBE700 OModel 5316 get loco/car by address -:5
20200323.121532.702 r9999a EFFBE700 OModel 5330 loco event for [MY1121]
20200323.121532.702 r9999a EFFBE700 OLoc 0864 event for loco MY1121: fn
20200323.121532.702 r9999a EFFBE700 OLoc 0907 ignore field event for [MY1121] while running in auto mode
20200323.121533.624 r9999I tid0x000 OSwitch 1414 Switch [sw9] will be set to [turnout,0,0]
20200323.121533.638 r9999I 14447700 OMBUS 0821 command=sw:turnout
20200323.121533.639 r9999c 14447700 OMBUS 0630 set switch 3864 0:101.0 to turnout(1) flat=100
20200323.121533.639 r9999a tid0x000 OSwitch 1684 broadcasting switch[sw9] state [turnout]
20200323.121533.639 r9999I tid0x000 OSwitch 0180 CTC LED: m1=1 m2=0
20200323.121533.670 r9999c mbusrdr8 OMBUS 2142 accessory response UID=0x3864 flat=100 26:1 aspect=0 current=1 value=25
20200323.121533.670 r9999a EFFBE700 OModel 5401 trying to match switch event: 0:26:1:0 type=0 uidname=[]
20200323.121533.671 r9999I EFFBE700 OSwitch 2012 switch [sw9] reported addr=26 port=1 state=turnout (addr1=26(0) port1=1(101) addr2=11(84) port2=2(0))
20200323.121533.671 r9999I EFFBE700 OSwitch 2022 switch [sw9] fieldState1=1
20200323.121533.671 r9999I EFFBE700 OSwitch 2033 switch [sw9] fieldState1=1, fieldState2=0
20200323.121533.671 r9999I EFFBE700 OSwitch 2108 switch [sw9] field event: state=left(field:turnout) gatevalue=2 inv=0 fieldstate=turnout
20200323.121533.671 r9999I EFFBE700 OSwitch 0180 CTC LED: m1=0 m2=0
20200323.121533.671 r9999a EFFBE700 OModel 3788 no more switches found by address [26,1]
20200323.121537.847 r9999I mbusrdr8 OMBUS 1090 ping request from hash B37C
20200323.121537.847 r9999I mbusrdr8 OMBUS 1116 ping uid=6373750E version=12.62 typeid=0x0050 (Booster (GFP3))
20200323.121537.848 r9999I EFFBE700 OControl 1989 Program event 26: cv0=0 addr=1668510990 type=6
20200323.121547.842 r9999I mbusrdr8 OMBUS 1090 ping request from hash B37C
20200323.121547.842 r9999I mbusrdr8 OMBUS 1116 ping uid=6373750E version=12.62 typeid=0x0050 (Booster (GFP3))
20200323.121547.842 r9999I EFFBE700 OControl 1989 Program event 26: cv0=0 addr=1668510990 type=6
20200323.121557.849 r9999I mbusrdr8 OMBUS 1090 ping request from hash B37C
20200323.121557.849 r9999I mbusrdr8 OMBUS 1116 ping uid=6373750E version=12.62 typeid=0x0050 (Booster (GFP3))
20200323.121557.849 r9999I EFFBE700 OControl 1989 Program event 26: cv0=0 addr=1668510990 type=6
20200323.121601.238 r9999a makeWeat OWeather 0879 weather time is 12:16
20200323.121607.842 r9999I mbusrdr8 OMBUS 1090 ping request from hash B37C
20200323.121607.843 r9999I mbusrdr8 OMBUS 1116 ping uid=6373750E version=12.62 typeid=0x0050 (Booster (GFP3))
20200323.121607.843 r9999I EFFBE700 OControl 1989 Program event 26: cv0=0 addr=1668510990 type=6
20200323.121610.836 r9999I EFEFB700 OMBUS 0821 command=clock:sync
20200323.121610.836 r9999I EFEFB700 OMBUS 0804 fast clock: 12:16 factor=60
20200323.121617.431 r9999c mbusrdr8 OMBUS 1883 verify loco [] UID=0x00000000 to SID=0 with QoS=0 (id=0x00078729)
20200323.121617.845 r9999I mbusrdr8 OMBUS 1090 ping request from hash B37C
20200323.121617.845 r9999I mbusrdr8 OMBUS 1116 ping uid=6373750E version=12.62 typeid=0x0050 (Booster (GFP3))
20200323.121617.845 r9999I EFFBE700 OControl 1989 Program event 26: cv0=0 addr=1668510990 type=6
20200323.121627.849 r9999I mbusrdr8 OMBUS 1090 ping request from hash B37C
20200323.121627.849 r9999I mbusrdr8 OMBUS 1116 ping uid=6373750E version=12.62 typeid=0x0050 (Booster (GFP3))
20200323.121627.849 r9999I EFFBE700 OControl 1989 Program event 26: cv0=0 addr=1668510990 type=6
20200323.121630.758 r9999I cmdrD000 OControl 1459 DataReq trace filename=[-]
20200323.121630.758 r9999I cmdrD000 OControl 0831 read trace file [/opt/rocrail/work//rocrail.003.trc] size=36581
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline PMPeter  
#63 Posted : 23 March 2020 14:50:13(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,061
Location: Port Moody, BC
I have just downloaded your files and have really not done anything with them except look at your Routes table. That immediately shows me that you only have 5 routes defined for your entire plan. Therefore, Rocrail can only function for those 5 routes.

To see this information, when you have your Worksheet active go to Tables and on the pulldown select Routes. This will display the Routes that have been set up.

To setup all the Routes for your plan you could do it automatically by clicking on File, then Analyze, and then Analyze again. That allows Rocrail to fill in all the possible Routes in that table.

Peter
Offline PMPeter  
#64 Posted : 23 March 2020 14:54:44(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,061
Location: Port Moody, BC
I just put all of you blocks into Operation and ran the analyzer. It added 111 routes into the Table. So now you have the possibility of 116 Routes for Rocrail to function on.

Peter
Offline morsing  
#65 Posted : 23 March 2020 14:57:30(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 503
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire

Out of which 114 won't work.

I give up. I'll have to splash out on some commersial software, this just isn't worth wasting my life on.
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline PMPeter  
#66 Posted : 23 March 2020 15:10:13(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,061
Location: Port Moody, BC
Just one last thought before you do that. After you run the Analyzer, you do have to Save the file, shut it all down and start it up again for the changes to take affect. Then do 1 Route at a time to see what works and what doesn't.

If you buy commercial software, the documentation will be better than the WIKI approach which at times can be like playing Dungeons and Dragons to find the correct and current info, but the basics are the same. If something is not defined correctly, it will not work in commercial software either.
Offline PMPeter  
#67 Posted : 23 March 2020 15:26:32(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,061
Location: Port Moody, BC
Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post


What is just so odd is that router or manual, 44 to 4 always works, 44 to anything else (or back) doesn't. Even odder, dragging a loco from 44 to say, 47, it runs the loco to 4 and back to 44, then sets all the switches to go to 5 and changes direction on the loco, and then nothing happens! Ever...



That is because the only Routes defined are bk44- to bk4+ and bk44- to bk5+. Even after running the Analyzer, your desired Route to go from bk44- to bk47- is not defined since it is not a logical route to set up since you would have to change a switch twice in the command structure which will give you the wrong initial setting. For example if you want to go from bk44- to bk47- you would have to go to an intermediate block say bk5+ and then from bk5+ to bk47- via Sw9. This would require Sw9 to be set to turnout and then straight in the same command file. That will not work.

After running the Analyzer you will see that Rocrail added 4 more possible Routes out of bk44-. See if those work rather than trying to do a complex Route such as bk44- to bk47-.
Offline David Dewar  
#68 Posted : 23 March 2020 17:01:49(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,901
Location: Scotland
Does the CS3 Plus not run the layout as you would want. I run several routes etc without any bother. However to be fair I have no idea what this software is that you are using.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline PMPeter  
#69 Posted : 23 March 2020 17:37:00(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,061
Location: Port Moody, BC
No disrespect David, but the topic title is regarding his problems with Rocrail which is a computer software for running the trains automatically. It has absolutely nothing to do with setting up routes on the CS3.
Offline morsing  
#70 Posted : 24 March 2020 09:28:57(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 503
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post

That is because the only Routes defined are bk44- to bk4+ and bk44- to bk5+. Even after running the Analyzer, your desired Route to go from bk44- to bk47- is not defined since it is not a logical route to set up since you would have to change a switch twice in the command structure which will give you the wrong initial setting. For example if you want to go from bk44- to bk47- you would have to go to an intermediate block say bk5+ and then from bk5+ to bk47- via Sw9. This would require Sw9 to be set to turnout and then straight in the same command file. That will not work.

After running the Analyzer you will see that Rocrail added 4 more possible Routes out of bk44-. See if those work rather than trying to do a complex Route such as bk44- to bk47-.



But my understanding is you only need routes between adjacent blocks, which is indeed what the router sets up as well?

Either way, locos can go between 44 and 4, both directions, but not 44 to any of the other tracks, or back, no matter how I try it. Same with other blocks, like I can go from 47 to 5 or 46, but can't go from 5 to 44. And I've been over route, block and loco definitions 100 times and it is just making me unhappy, which is not the point of this hobby. It just doesn't make any sense, and after three months of frustration, I don't see it being worth trying to get this to work.

And I'm back to my moan about the messages coming out of the software. If it says "Route is suitable" and "Locking route for [MY1121]", sets the direction on the loco and changes all the necessary switches, all detailed in the log, why can't it just say "But I am not going because: <reason>". It would be such a little ask. Maybe that's it, I just need to ask them to add that...

-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline PMPeter  
#71 Posted : 24 March 2020 14:57:34(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,061
Location: Port Moody, BC
I agree that Rocrail is not for everyone. It requires a lot of patience and trial and error and a real understanding of the basic operation and settings and how they interact. The WIKI in such cases can be more than frustrating. I was in the same position as you are now, about 4 years ago when I was getting ready to give up on it. The Rocrail forum was not very sympathetic when I used the word "frustrating" and I was told by the moderator to possibly consider another hobby. That comment alone made me furious, but at the same time bound and determined to make it work and I have been very successful since.

I think your biggest problem is that you are trying to accomplish difficult running scenarios (forward & reverse) before you are getting a steady operation of locos running in the forward direction only. It is similar to programming Rocrail for a turntable operation. That gave me a month of frustration until I got help from a fellow member French Fabrice. It was quite an extensive programming exercise that I would not have figured out from WIKI.

I see no reason why a loco cannot move from 5+ to 44-, unless the loco forward direction is pointing towards 5-. In that case it will not go. The other possibility is that the loco you are trying to use is "stuck in reverse". For example in the plan you sent out yesterday MA460 is stuck in reverse. So if you put that loco in block 5 with the forward pointed towards 5+ it too would not go.

My suggestion is that you get your Rocrail working properly in the Forward direction only through your outer blocks 20, 21, 24, 25, etc. through each of your station blocks and when this is working you slowly start getting your shunting operations working one route at a time.

You need to walk slowly before you can sprint.

Peter
Offline morsing  
#72 Posted : 24 March 2020 15:04:47(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 503
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
I agree that Rocrail is not for everyone. It requires a lot of patience and trial and error and a real understanding of the basic operation and settings and how they interact. The WIKI in such cases can be more than frustrating. I was in the same position as you are now, about 4 years ago when I was getting ready to give up on it. The Rocrail forum was not very sympathetic when I used the word "frustrating" and I was told by the moderator to possibly consider another hobby. That comment alone made me furious, but at the same time bound and determined to make it work and I have been very successful since.


Thanks, it actually makes me feel better that it is not just me...

Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post

My suggestion is that you get your Rocrail working properly in the Forward direction only through your outer blocks 20, 21, 24, 25, etc. through each of your station blocks and when this is working you slowly start getting your shunting operations working one route at a time.

You need to walk slowly before you can sprint.

Peter


Yes, I am beginning to agree...

Block 20, 21, 24 & 25 don't exist yet, in the physical world, which is why I was trying to have a bit of relief running trains back and forth. I see your point though, so will put automated running on hold until the whole layout is down. Maybe it will actually spur me on to get it setup.

But I'm still dreading getting back to shunting later on, I think I will hit the same problems again, but lets see.
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
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Offline morsing  
#73 Posted : 25 March 2020 11:51:17(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 503
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Posted on the RocRail forum and someone spotted a problem!

The problem was that sw9 and sw28 in my original confusion had been defined as double switches in RocRail which the CS3 doesn't understand. When RocRail tried to set the route, it would send two commands per switch, the CS3 would change the switches making it look ok, but never feedback on the second address for each switch, hence the route was never deemed ready.

It all seems to work now!

ThumpUp
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by morsing
Offline JohnjeanB  
#74 Posted : 25 March 2020 12:29:38(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 893
Location: Paris, France
Hi Peter, Henrik

Here is the Wiki section on thisAuto / Half-Auto
Henrik, when you drag and drop your train from one block to another, IMO you are in Auto mode. When Rocrail is correctly set this results in a route being selected and one or 2 seconds later the train starts and go to the destination you have selected. IMO you are not supposed to drive your Loco. If you do Rocrail ignores the speed and still displays the one it wants.
In this mode, forcing a train to start that has not been authorized by Rocrail make it lock (when the train arrives at its destination the block shows GOST or ignores the arrival on the new block.

To start in half-auto is like to start in Auto (Power ON and Auto ON) but then you right-click on the block containing the train you want to control and then select Half-auto. When authorized a route is displayed and it is up to you to do the driving. I must say I am a newbee in this mode as I use exclusively the Auto mode
Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
Offline PMPeter  
#75 Posted : 25 March 2020 14:23:14(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,061
Location: Port Moody, BC
Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post
Posted on the RocRail forum and someone spotted a problem!

The problem was that sw9 and sw28 in my original confusion had been defined as double switches in RocRail which the CS3 doesn't understand.


I'm glad that it has been solved. That is why I made the comment before, that if there is an error in configuration or settings and Rocrail does not understand what to do, commercial software would not understand it either.

Peter

Offline morsing  
#76 Posted : 25 March 2020 14:30:30(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 503
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post
Posted on the RocRail forum and someone spotted a problem!

The problem was that sw9 and sw28 in my original confusion had been defined as double switches in RocRail which the CS3 doesn't understand.


I'm glad that it has been solved. That is why I made the comment before, that if there is an error in configuration or settings and Rocrail does not understand what to do, commercial software would not understand it either.

Peter



Hi,

I'm not saying it's doing anything wrong, only that it is not *telling* me something is wrong. But maybe it does, looking at the 200 trace lines about changing the point, there was some cryptic message about "Can't see any more addresses for 26:3" or something like that, but it's not even labelled as an error.

Thanks.
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline morsing  
#77 Posted : 25 March 2020 14:56:50(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 503
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire

Seriously, are you meant to get from this, that it is trying two addresses for the switch, and only getting a response from one, in the middle of 200 other lines?


20200323.121533.624 r9999I tid0x000 OSwitch 1414 Switch [sw9] will be set to [turnout,0,0]
20200323.121533.638 r9999I 14447700 OMBUS 0821 command=sw:turnout
20200323.121533.639 r9999c 14447700 OMBUS 0630 set switch 3864 0:101.0 to turnout(1) flat=100
20200323.121533.639 r9999a tid0x000 OSwitch 1684 broadcasting switch[sw9] state [turnout]
20200323.121533.639 r9999I tid0x000 OSwitch 0180 CTC LED: m1=1 m2=0
20200323.121533.670 r9999c mbusrdr8 OMBUS 2142 accessory response UID=0x3864 flat=100 26:1 aspect=0 current=1 value=25
20200323.121533.670 r9999a EFFBE700 OModel 5401 trying to match switch event: 0:26:1:0 type=0 uidname=[]
20200323.121533.671 r9999I EFFBE700 OSwitch 2012 switch [sw9] reported addr=26 port=1 state=turnout (addr1=26(0) port1=1(101) addr2=11(84) port2=2(0))
20200323.121533.671 r9999I EFFBE700 OSwitch 2022 switch [sw9] fieldState1=1
20200323.121533.671 r9999I EFFBE700 OSwitch 2033 switch [sw9] fieldState1=1, fieldState2=0
20200323.121533.671 r9999I EFFBE700 OSwitch 2108 switch [sw9] field event: state=left(field:turnout) gatevalue=2 inv=0 fieldstate=turnout
20200323.121533.671 r9999I EFFBE700 OSwitch 0180 CTC LED: m1=0 m2=0
20200323.121533.671 r9999a EFFBE700 OModel 3788 no more switches found by address [26,1]
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline PMPeter  
#78 Posted : 25 March 2020 15:10:25(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,061
Location: Port Moody, BC
For the average user like you and me - No! For the Rocrail forum moderators and software developers - Yes!

I have minimized this reporting on my screen since quite frankly I rarely understand the messages. If something doesn't work, I'll quickly glance at this reporting to see if something obvious jumps out at me, and if not I troubleshoot it myself by checking every setting, configuration, etc. for the affected problem and 99% of the time I find that I made a simple error or forgot to check off a required option and the problem is solved.
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Offline applor  
#79 Posted : 27 March 2020 02:01:20(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,473
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
You should be manually testing all the switches and signals first before trying to use them in automated mode and then trying to figure out what is wrong when auto mode isn't working.
right click on go to command and make sure straight/throw correctly operate and set physically on the layout.

Also double switches do work with CS3 if configured correctly because I use them with a CS2 and Rocrail. It is simply two separate addresses, nothing that a CS can't understand.
Of course double switches are for the K track double slip (DKW) which has two motors, the C track double slip is single motor which was the problem.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline morsing  
#80 Posted : 27 March 2020 08:42:43(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 503
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
You should be manually testing all the switches and signals first before trying to use them in automated mode and then trying to figure out what is wrong when auto mode isn't working.
right click on go to command and make sure straight/throw correctly operate and set physically on the layout.



I did, as per my spost earlier, and they worked fine. Why would I try to setup something to work automatically if the setup wasn't working?

And RocRail changed all the points correctly when it chose a route through the switches.

With a problem like this, the GUI should pop up a message saying "[MY1121] stuck because of un-responsive address 82 from sw9". It shouldn't be beyond any developer to do this. It's a shame people are leaving RocRail because of these issues with lack of error messages, butI have come across several that have.

Thanks
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline PMPeter  
#81 Posted : 27 March 2020 14:51:50(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,061
Location: Port Moody, BC
Let's not forget one key point. Rocrail is still a "free" software. Therefore, the expectations of perfect documentation and extensive error reporting need to be lowered to a certain extent when comparing it to the relatively expensive commercial software. I doubt very much if the Rocrail developers are anything more than individuals who enjoy model railroading control and have developed and recorded the WIKI on their own time.

Suggestions on what needs improving appear to usually be considered and implemented if considered to be a benefit for all.
Offline morsing  
#82 Posted : 27 March 2020 15:25:41(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 503
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
Let's not forget one key point. Rocrail is still a "free" software. Therefore, the expectations of perfect documentation and extensive error reporting need to be lowered to a certain extent when comparing it to the relatively expensive commercial software. I doubt very much if the Rocrail developers are anything more than individuals who enjoy model railroading control and have developed and recorded the WIKI on their own time.

Suggestions on what needs improving appear to usually be considered and implemented if considered to be a benefit for all.


It may be free, but I have still paid for it. And I've written enough software myself to know that it wouldn't be much effort to present the user with a useful error message in the GUI.

Looks like the last GPL code release was in 2014, where he illegally put that you are not allowed to start a fork of the software. Maybe it's time to start a fork...
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline PMPeter  
#83 Posted : 27 March 2020 15:42:26(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,061
Location: Port Moody, BC
Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post
It may be free, but I have still paid for it.


I assume you mean you made a donation. That is not the same as paying for something which has a whole lot of legalities associated with it compared to a donation.

I'm sure if you have a software solution to your error reporting problem and present it to them, they will be very receptive to looking at it. Again I state that Rocrail is not for everyone. It is continuously being modified based on users' inputs, problem reporting, new product development, etc. and therefore, is often lacking because of outdated WIKI.

Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#84 Posted : 27 March 2020 23:21:49(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 142
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
Let's not forget one key point. Rocrail is still a "free" software. Therefore, the expectations of perfect documentation and extensive error reporting need to be lowered to a certain extent when comparing it to the relatively expensive commercial software. I doubt very much if the Rocrail developers are anything more than individuals who enjoy model railroading control and have developed and recorded the WIKI on their own time.

Suggestions on what needs improving appear to usually be considered and implemented if considered to be a benefit for all.


It may be free, but I have still paid for it. And I've written enough software myself to know that it wouldn't be much effort to present the user with a useful error message in the GUI.

Looks like the last GPL code release was in 2014, where he illegally put that you are not allowed to start a fork of the software. Maybe it's time to start a fork...

Well, I would not blame Rocrail if the track plan given to it does not match with the real hardware it is supposed to control, as in this case. I, too, pointed out the double turnout problem in my earlier post #56 of this thread.

I concur, though, that Rocrail is not easy to master - it is general software intended to cover a large variety of various systems and hardware, and the documentation is complex and sometimes confusing. By starting with a relatively complex layout, you have jumped into the deep end of this pool. Patience! Eventually it will pay off as you learn how the make use of the very extensive functionalities provided by the software.
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
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Offline applor  
#85 Posted : 29 March 2020 01:46:36(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,473
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I find the Rocrail mods respond within a day to any issue that I post. I have posted at least half a dozen times there and found a solution.

Sometimes it comes down to semantics regarding how a feature is documented but after having clarification you know how it works and can move on.

In fact I just posted there yesterday regarding Block Groups / Free Blocks which is already clarified for me and resolved:

https://forum.rocrail.ne...071&p=221673#p221673

So yes it is free software but the response time considering is what you would receive from a paid product - though I agree basic questions/problems are usually skipped by the mods and left to others, I dont blame them.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
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