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Offline morsing  
#1 Posted : 04 February 2020 15:42:40(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 471
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Hi,
Rocrail isn't the easiest concept to get along with, but I am reading through the wiki and guides.

I managed to get a loco to runs through a route, but no more, and I don't know why.

As soon as I tell is to go, it puts the name of the loco in the destination block and turns the background yellow. Yellow means block is reserved it says. I've reset the blocks, and all locos, tried restarting, but it insists the block is reserved.

Get this in the trace:

20200204.144103.000 r4201a CFC17700 OLcDrive 0121 Setting state for "MY1121" from LC_INITDEST to LC_CHECKROUTE.
20200204.144104.101 r9999a MY1121 ORoute 0926 blockid [bk43] in route [NEWsdrfgd] is --from--
20200204.144104.101 r9999a MY1121 OBlock 3526 depart loco [MY1121] from block [bk43]
20200204.144104.101 r4202a CFC17700 OLcDrive 0142 setting signals...(useCurBlock4Signals=0)
20200204.144104.101 r4204a CFC17700 OLcDrive 0189 curBlock [bk43]
20200204.144104.101 r4204a CFC17700 OLcDrive 0195 next1Block [bk7]
20200204.144104.101 r4204a CFC17700 OLcDrive 0201 next1Route [NEWsdrfgd]
20200204.144104.101 r9999a CFC17700 OLcDrive 0231 no second next block available: YELLOW
20200204.144104.101 r9999a CFC17700 OLcDrive 0122 check signal pair: route=NEWsdrfgd block=bk43 fromTo=true signalpair=false sgpair=2
20200204.144104.101 r9999a CFC17700 OLcDrive 0376 set signals in block [bk7]
20200204.144104.101 r9999a CFC17700 OLcDrive 0122 check signal pair: route=NEWsdrfgd block=bk7 fromTo=true signalpair=true sgpair=2
20200204.144104.102 r4201a CFC17700 OLcDrive 0116 Setting state for "MY1121" from LC_CHECKROUTE to LC_PRE2GO.
20200204.144104.202 r4201a CFC17700 OLcDrive 0051 Setting state for [MY1121] from LC_PRE2GO to LC_GO.

Any help appreciated.
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
6m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline PMPeter  
#2 Posted : 04 February 2020 15:55:32(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,020
Location: Port Moody, BC
When you put Rocrail into Automatic and start a locomotive it should reserve the next 2 blocks available on a route for that locomotive and turn those 2 blocks yellow. If only the first block is available it will turn that block yellow. That can also happen if the first block is a Wait block and you have not selected to reserve the second block even if the first is a Wait.

If I understand correctly you select the loco to start, the blocks turn yellow (which is correct), but the loco does not move. What does it say for the loco: Wait, Auto, or something else?

Peter
Offline morsing  
#3 Posted : 04 February 2020 16:04:43(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 471
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Hi,

14:58:41 loco [MY1121] is in block [bk43] and should travel to [bk7]

And

MY1121 5 bk43 <0% >auto bk7

And then nothing. Lights are on on the loco and the block sensor can see it's there.

But I have tried lots of different things. Sometimes it says <wait, sometimes <auto... Either way, nothing ever happens.

Thanks
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
6m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
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rrf
Offline PMPeter  
#4 Posted : 04 February 2020 16:22:26(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,020
Location: Port Moody, BC
If it says Auto for your loco and reserves the next block, then Rocrail is functioning as it should, but your CS3 does not tell the loco to move. Have you checked whether you can turn the CS3 on and off from Rocrail? If that works then you at least know that the 2 are still communicating with each other.

Can you move the loco from Rocrail in Manual?
Offline morsing  
#5 Posted : 04 February 2020 16:53:12(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 471
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Hi,

Yes, manual works from Rocrail and the CS3.

I just tried a manual run, and it went to the destination block, and when it hit "In", it stopped and changed the lights over.
I then dragged it back to the the original block, and it changed lights and started going in the wrong direction, but that's just a matter of swapping direction, I assume.
Problem is, after that, I couldn't get it to move again. It's like it thinks it's gone somewhere else, and I can't get it to understand it's still in the same block.

I ran out of time, will look at it again after work.

Thanks
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
6m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline PMPeter  
#6 Posted : 04 February 2020 17:32:14(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,020
Location: Port Moody, BC
Something doesn't sound right here. In Rocrail Manual mode there should be no destination block. There should be no automatic changing of lights, etc. You should have total manual control of the locomotive and its functions, the same as if you were manually operating it from the CS3.

What you are describing sounds like you have Rocrail Automatic selected and rather than just starting the locomotive for Rocrail to determine where it is going you are manually selecting it to run to a certain block by dragging the loco icon to a certain block. Why it changes direction when it reaches the In sensor of that block is puzzling unless you have selected the block type as Terminal. This designation should only be used for a stub track off of a turntable or a stub track in a yard. If you have designated a Terminal block in anything else you will have a problem.

Perhaps you can post the Rocrail track plan showing where the problem occurs.

Peter
Offline Mark5  
#7 Posted : 04 February 2020 17:37:38(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,204
Location: Montreal
It would be great if we could develop a rocrail FAQ that is specific to Marklin users and includes links to resources such as the Rocrail forum, english section.

Great to hear of others experiences using it on this thread. Thanks all.

Mark Five.
Interested in history of DB, DR and FS circa 1955 to 1965. Fan of signals, catenary, stations and yards.
Father of four girls running an exhibition layout, the Mädchenbahn--
https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?i=30519&b=1
Large version of my present avatar-- https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?i=29910&b=1
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#8 Posted : 04 February 2020 19:38:20(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: Paris, France
Hi Morsing
As a Rocrail user I strongly suggest you go on the english speaking Rocrail forum.
In this you can post your Rocrail files and then get help. Marklin user forum is great but you cannot include those file so the help is reduced
From what you describe (block turning yellow) all is fine except the loco in the block maybe not the one receiving the order to go
Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
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Offline morsing  
#9 Posted : 04 February 2020 20:04:11(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 471
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Morsing
As a Rocrail user I strongly suggest you go on the english speaking Rocrail forum.
In this you can post your Rocrail files and then get help. Marklin user forum is great but you cannot include those file so the help is reduced
From what you describe (block turning yellow) all is fine except the loco in the block maybe not the one receiving the order to go
Cheers
Jean


Ok, I will try. But this is what put me off last time I looked at it:

"Update the Rocrail installation. This is essential :!: Rocrail Update"

1) They don't use proper version numbers, they use some nightly build number system that doesn't add up
2) I use Debian and it's installed as a package and I would rather leave it that way

Thanks
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
6m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline PMPeter  
#10 Posted : 04 February 2020 20:28:58(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,020
Location: Port Moody, BC
Yes the Rocrail forum will insist that you have the latest nightly build installed before you post your files. This can certainly cause some problems that you are not expecting because if you haven't updated in quite a while various things may have changed that you need to correct first before going on with your actual problem. So my suggestion would be first to try and get your locomotive working satisfactorily through Rocrail with Automatic turned off. If you have control of it, its direction and speed and functions, then you know your communication is good. Once you are happy with manual control go back to Automatic and manually try to get it to go from block to block until you encounter a block that gives you a problem. If that doesn't work then I too agree that you should go to the Rocrail Forum, but you will need to have the latest build installed.

Peter
Offline Webmaster  
#11 Posted : 04 February 2020 20:32:27(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 10,951
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Marklin user forum is great but you cannot include those file so the help is reduced

I'd be happy to include the Rocrail file format extension(s) so you can attach it to a post... Smile
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#12 Posted : 04 February 2020 22:35:44(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 114
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post
Hi,
I just tried a manual run, and it went to the destination block, and when it hit "In", it stopped and changed the lights over.
I then dragged it back to the the original block, and it changed lights and started going in the wrong direction, but that's just a matter of swapping direction, I assume.
Problem is, after that, I couldn't get it to move again. It's like it thinks it's gone somewhere else, and I can't get it to understand it's still in the same block.

Reading this gives me the impression that you are using drag & drop automatic mode to run the loco. Did I understand correctly that the loco changes its direction twice: once when it hits the "in" sensor of the destination, and once again when you use the drag & drop to send it back? If so, then the logical direction of the loco does not match with the direction it should go, and it will stay put. You can try to change the logical direction before the second drag & drop to see if that helps.

In any case, I agree with Peter that something is not right. Check the destination block definitions!
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Martti Mäntylä
Offline morsing  
#13 Posted : 05 February 2020 08:38:50(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 471
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Hi,

I spent too much time on this yesterday with work etc, will do some testing over the weekend.

Can't remember the manual test, I didn't use drag-n-drop, maybe it was a different test were it stopped and changed lights.

It's must be something simple causing this, I have read the step-by-step start-up guide several times, but it's not very good at explaining.

I still don't understand the '<', '>' & '-' signs in the loco status window. Nor really what the difference between 'auto' and 'wait' is and these things don't seem to be in the Rocrail wiki.

At one point the trace window did tell me the block didn't accept trains in the direction I was coming from, so that was helpful, but I haven't had that since. I'm sure it's just a direction problem somewhere, but it's odd how I can sometimes go from block 1 to 2, and it seems to kinda want to go from 2 to 1 after that, but nothing else, and I can't get it to accept picking up the loco and manually placing it.

At the moment I only have one route set-up, between adjacent blocks '7' and '43' and back. I believe I have set the entry direction correctly.

I will post up some screenshots later in the week or over the weekend.

Thanks.

P.S. Found this, will have a read: https://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=loc-tab-en
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
6m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline PMPeter  
#14 Posted : 05 February 2020 16:25:11(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,020
Location: Port Moody, BC
I agree that it appears to be a setting that is ticked or a definition of a block type that is causing you this problem.

Some basic Rocrail info to help you out:

1. You can use Rocrail in 2 modes: Manual and Automatic. In Manual you have total control of the locomotive as far as direction, speed and functions are concerned. It acts like any other controller such as your CS3. It does not go to any assigned block nor does anything unless you tell it to. In Automatic you have 2 choices. You can either select the locomotive and ask Rocrail to Start it or drag the loco icon to a desired block. Rocrail will then select an available route, start the loco and take it to the next block(s) at the speeds and with the functions set up for the block(s) or Route. The loco will keep running in this mode until you stop Automatic mode for that loco or perhaps it enters a Terminal block. If you use the other alternative of dragging the loco icon to a specific block you need to make sure that the "Swap loco entry" has the loco direction defined properly with the actual direction of the loco on the track and that this direction will take you to the desired block. If the direction is wrong either physically or for getting to the desired block, the loco will just sit there.

2. The symbol ">" means the loco is set for Forward direction.

3. The symbol "<" means the loco is set for "Reverse" direction.

4. In Automatic mode "Wait" means that the loco is either waiting for a Route/Block to clear so that it can be reserved, or it is in a Block that has the Wait function enabled (such as a station track). The Wait time is defined either by the loco settings or the Block settings. Once the Wait time has timed out the loco continues on in Automatic mode.

5. In Automatic mode "Auto" means the loco has been assigned a route and should move. If it doesn't, it either isn't getting the signal (give it a nudge) or it is facing the wrong direction or in some occasions the loco has wrongly been defined to run in Reverse.

Hope this helps.
Peter
Offline kiwiAlan  
#15 Posted : 05 February 2020 23:44:45(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,884
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post
and I can't get it to accept picking up the loco and manually placing it.


Why can you not run the train back down the track?

I suspect the reason it won't run after you manually move it using "the hand of god" it looses track of where the loco is and thinks it is still at its destination. Now there is something it knows is at the source point it shows the track as occupied, but it doesn't know it is the same loco.

Offline JohnjeanB  
#16 Posted : 06 February 2020 15:01:11(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: Paris, France
Hi Morsing
Yes Rr forum want you to use a recent version (no you don’t have to change every day)
IMO on a simple layout the version is not critical so if Juhan is kind enough to make the forum accept XML file them you can copy the files:
- plan.xml
- rocview.ini
- rocrail.ini
- locofile.xml
- occ.xml
I willbe glad to look into it
Cheers
Jean
Note to Juhan: apparently rocview. ini and rocrail.ini are xml / text-like files. Here is a sample

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<rocrail planfile="C:\Users\Jean\Documents\Rocrail\BeauSoleil 03-02-2020 AufstellBk.xml" locs="locofile.xml" autosave="0" analyseplan="true" occupancy="occ.xml" backup="true" maxbackup="100" backuppath="backup" keypath="lic.dat" libpath="." imgpath="images" iconpath="icons" issuepath="issues" soundpath="sounds" soundplayer="" soundplayerlocation="false" xmlscriptpath="." decpath="decspecs" ptiid="" lciid="" dpiid="" sviid="" sciid="" fsutf8="true" scsensor="" createmodplan="false" resetspfx="false" aboxhome="abox" poweroffonexit="true" poweronatinit="false" shutdownonexit="false" nodevcheck="true" autosaveonmodify="false">
<ctrl sgevents="false" swti...

Edited by user 06 February 2020 21:52:35(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

My lay-out videos
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Offline morsing  
#17 Posted : 09 February 2020 11:18:06(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 471
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Hi, I couldn't find all the files you asked for but:

http://www.morsing.cc/Trains/plan.xml
http://www.morsing.cc/Trains/occ.xml
http://www.morsing.cc/Trains/rocrail.ini

Another problem that has now started is that the sensors in RocRail are no longer activated. They work fine on the CS3, just nothing happens on RocRail.

Yesterday, by magic, the train actually went from bk7 to bk43, except it didn't stop because Rocrail no longer sees the sensors. But after that, I couldn't get it to move again.

Can someone explain how all the + - < > need to be set on the loco from, to block and speed, combined with the < > in the blocks for the train to move? I'm sure the only problem here is my lack of understanding, and reading the Rocrail Wiki still hasn't made me come to any epiphany.

Also, what 'mode' do I set it to? I keep flicking between auto modes, to try to activate it. Maybe the problem some of the time is it's in half-automatic mode rather than fully automatic? How do I set it to fully automatic?

Thanks
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
6m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline JohnjeanB  
#18 Posted : 09 February 2020 12:20:24(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: Paris, France
Hi Morsing
I have loaded your plan file and your rocrail.ini files but what I get is a truncated plan.
It may be because I don't receive the files normally so as to download then. I will send you my email per PM so that you may send them in a conventional way.
It looks like this:
UserPostedImage
So from what I see
- the plan is not healthy
- I see only 2 blocks and a missing track piece (double slip switch). Rocrail can only move trains from one bloc to another if there is a direct way (no direction change)
So to get further I need to have your real files sent by email
Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
Offline JohnjeanB  
#19 Posted : 09 February 2020 12:39:35(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: Paris, France
Hi Juhan

XML File downloading:
I order to retrieve Morsing's files, when I click on the file it opens a new tab with html view of the file. So I selected the content and recreated the file (copy-paste into an xml editor and save the file. Doing this apparently may have truncated the file. Is there a way to attach an xml file to a message in this forum?
Thank you for your help
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
Offline morsing  
#20 Posted : 09 February 2020 12:48:39(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 471
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Morsing
I have loaded your plan file and your rocrail.ini files but what I get is a truncated plan.
It may be because I don't receive the files normally so as to download then. I will send you my email per PM so that you may send them in a conventional way.
It looks like this:
UserPostedImage
So from what I see
- the plan is not healthy
- I see only 2 blocks and a missing track piece (double slip switch). Rocrail can only move trains from one bloc to another if there is a direct way (no direction change)
So to get further I need to have your real files sent by email
Cheers
Jean


Hi, that looks nothing like my plan. Can you not right click and save?



-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
6m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline JohnjeanB  
#21 Posted : 09 February 2020 13:34:04(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: Paris, France
Hi Morsing (again)

I suggest to start from a working demo plan as it can be downloaded from here https://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=download-int at about mid page.
Before this you need to save your work by copying all 5 files to a back-up durectory (plan.xml, rocrail.ini, rocview.ini, locofile.xml, occ.xml)
Then load it in your rocrail working directory while Rocrail is not started and then start Rocrail.

Recommended practice:
- each block must have a sensor on each side at least (usually ENTER sensor and IN sensor)
- make a simple layout representing your layout (typically a loop of track or more.
- all tracks are by default bi-directional. If you wish Rocrail not to consider both directions, insert a special track in the way between 2 block (track plan/edit panel then right click were you want to insert the direction track and select Add Item Track/Direction.
- possibly add branch lines (ending with a buffer and a block (with one or 2 sensors). The block in this branch line must tick "terminal station" (or at least "allow change direction") in its properties.
Rocrail will do for you all the final checking and create the routes. Check to Step by step tutorial here https://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.ph...bystep-en#the_track-plan
Rocrail can analyse your project or clean it using file/router/routing. Attention it wil erase all routes and create new and clean ones. It will also program all track symbols so that when a route is selected, all symbols used by that route will turn yellow. So periodically save your work by saving the 5 files mentioned.

If the plan is not healthy (i.e.: not suitable for operation, it will indicated in the lower left corner of the screen what the problems are.
In your case with the plan I have received it says:

13:14:40 Plan is NOT healthy. See previous ERROR lines.
13:14:40 ERROR: plan position[15-3-0] object[tk] id[tk13] overlaps object[bk] id[bk2]
13:14:40 ERROR: plan position[14-3-0] object[tk] id[tk3] overlaps object[bk] id[bk2]
13:14:40 ERROR: plan position[13-3-0] object[tk] id[tk2] overlaps object[bk] id[bk2]

Where all positions indicate the x (horizontal), y (vertical), z (layer) of the problematic entry. Example plan position[15-3-0] shows that item in the 15 th row and 3rd line is problematic.

My advice is to start from a simple and healthy plan, save all files, make a limited number of changes, test for health, simulate the operation (by activating sensors and starting trains, or use the drag and drop. once tested OK then save all files and make new changes.

cheers
Jean

My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
Offline PMPeter  
#22 Posted : 09 February 2020 16:30:03(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,020
Location: Port Moody, BC
I agree with Jean that you need to get a simple plan working and that you are probably not getting some of the basic settings correct.

Regarding your comments about Modes there really are only 2 - Manual and Automatic. When you first power up Rocrail you will have Power Off and Manual Mode by default. When you turn Power On you should have manual control of the locos that you have configured for Rocrail control. Again I suggest that you try to move the loco on the loco control panel by selecting it to go forward, reverse, adjust speed by moving the slider up and down and check all of the functions. If you do not have this Manual control you will not be able to get the Automatic mode to operate properly.

Please confirm that this works for you and then we can move on to the Automatic settings.

Peter
Offline morsing  
#23 Posted : 10 February 2020 09:14:10(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 471
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Hi,

It's just that my whole station is screwed down, so it's not that easy just starting over. I have only set-up one bi-directional route between two adjacent blocks, one being a end bit, maybe I need to define it as a dead end?

My version of RocRail does not have File -> Router -> Routing, I have seen that mentioned on the Wiki as well.

Henrik

P.S. Our garage roof blew off yesterday and the rain drenched the inside. My train setup is in there, so spent the day rescuing what we could. Might have to cut out new baseboards if they warp :-(
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
6m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline PMPeter  
#24 Posted : 10 February 2020 15:29:25(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,020
Location: Port Moody, BC
Sorry to hear about your roof. That puts a crimp on model railroading!!

I don't think Jean was talking about physically ripping up your track and rearranging it. I think he was talking about simplifying your Rocrail track plan for part of your layout. After 6 years I still do not have my total physical track layout in Rocrail. I add blocks as I get other areas working properly.

If you have a stub track (end bit) that block needs to be defined as a "Terminal Station" in the Block properties.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#25 Posted : 10 February 2020 18:33:29(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: Paris, France
Hi Henrik
Sorry for your garage roof. I hope the damage will be minor
In the meantime you will be able to play with Rocrail using simulation
Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
Offline PJMärklin  
#26 Posted : 11 February 2020 08:05:53(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,457
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post
Hi,
P.S. Our garage roof blew off yesterday and the rain drenched the inside. My train setup is in there, so spent the day rescuing what we could. Might have to cut out new baseboards if they warp :-(


Oh Dear !

So sorry to hear that.Crying

PJSad
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Offline morsing  
#27 Posted : 11 February 2020 11:52:49(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 471
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire

I can only count myself lucky that I was actually in the garage when it happened. If not, there would have been severe damage to a lot of things. Swift operation with help from my wife saw most things only damp rather than wet.

So, just tried Virtual running, and it works a treat. Back and forth to the little loco's heart's content. Only thing I need to do is swap placing at each end, I don't even have to click the sensors..

And running the train has always worked in manual mode, no problem there.

It was slightly odd when the sensors suddenly wasn't working in Rocrail, my the train wouldn't run even before that.

To correct some of the plan errors reported, what do the location numbers mean? " Track symbol in 35-15 overlaps with another one"?

As mentioned before, I don't have a routing tool in the file menu. Also, there is no-where I can find to set a block as an end station?

Thanks
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
6m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline JohnjeanB  
#28 Posted : 11 February 2020 12:15:28(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post


To correct some of the plan errors reported, what do the location numbers mean? " Track symbol in 35-15 overlaps with another one"?

These are x and y coordinates (it may be clearer when you select the grid to be displayed. Anyway at the bottom of your screen the coordinates of the selected black are displayed.
Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post

As mentioned before, I don't have a routing tool in the file menu. Also, there is no-where I can find to set a block as an end station?

It is in the command group to verify you program (healthyness, to clean it, etc)
There is surely an equivalent (in the "file" tab) but the name has been changed.
Otherwise loading the last version of Rocrail is very easy. All you need to do is:
- to select your operating system (Windows, Mac OS, Linux)
- to select the format (32 or 64 bits)
- load the exe file and execute it
- answer some easy questions (use defaults works well)
I did renew my Rocrail version and it took me 2 minutes, not more (no uninstall needed)

I recommend you keep a copy of the software version you use. That way you can go back if you have problems with a version.
cheers
Jean

My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
Offline JohnjeanB  
#29 Posted : 11 February 2020 12:38:03(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post

So, just tried Virtual running, and it works a treat. Back and forth to the little loco's heart's content. Only thing I need to do is swap placing at each end, I don't even have to click the sensors..

A simple way to have the loco change direction when entering a dead end is to create a function (going into TABLES/ACTIONS) with a name like LOCOSWAP. TYPE: locomotive; COMMAND: swap; ID: left blank
Next is to insert in blocks of deadends an ACTION LOCOSWAP with STATE: in and TIMER: 2000

The result is: any loco entering any block (during the "in" phase) where this ACTION is will change direction after 2 seconds (TIMER=2000)
Cheers
Jean

My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
Offline PMPeter  
#30 Posted : 11 February 2020 15:21:13(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,020
Location: Port Moody, BC
Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post

Also, there is no-where I can find to set a block as an end station?

Thanks


If you right click on the Block that is your end block and click on Properties you will receive a list of items for customizing that Block. One of those items will be Terminal Station. This needs to be selected to define that Block as an end point and allow the loco to automatically reverse direction.
Offline morsing  
#31 Posted : 12 February 2020 08:40:51(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 471
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire

Hi,

My version does not have the routing menu and it does not have the terminal station setting either.

I looked at upgrading but the only downloads available are from 2010, I can't see that being any newer than mine.

https://launchpad.net/rocrail/+download

Thanks
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
6m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline JohnjeanB  
#32 Posted : 12 February 2020 11:38:34(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: Paris, France
Hi Henrik
The link for all download is here https://wiki.rocrail.net/rocrail-snapshot/
The link for the 64 bits version for Windows is here https://wiki.rocrail.net/rocrail...ot/rocrail-475-win64.exe
Those allow you to load todays version Feb 12, 2020
I am sure you have the equivalent of the router subdirectory. It was called differently before.
You have buffers on your version:
- set track plan into edit mode
- right click on the point where you want to insert a buffer
- select track/buffer

Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline morsing  
#33 Posted : 12 February 2020 11:41:13(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 471
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Thanks, but as soon as I click on Linux, it goes to that weird place from 2010.

I will upgrade RocView though, if that will help, but RocView and RocRail will probably just be even more out of sync, version-wise.

Thanks

P.S. Aha! Upgrading RocView made both "Router" and "Terminal Station" appear!

P.P.S. The entries in the Router menu do nothing, and Terminal Station is greyed out.
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
6m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#34 Posted : 13 February 2020 00:45:52(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 114
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
The download page your got to is the current one, with most recent build of the system. Never mind the title that speaks of 2010.

Router won't work unless you give it a healthy plan. "Terminal station" is greyed if you have selected the "Allow change direction" option - these options are mutually exclusive.
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
Offline morsing  
#35 Posted : 23 February 2020 12:23:52(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 471
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Hi,

Garage roof covered up, had a friend come round yesterday to play with this RocRail things.

I now know what the problem is, it's what I suspected all along:

*** I do not understand how it works! ***

And reading the Wiki doesn't really seem to help either.

Once again, randomly, 1-in-20 times, we got the loco to run through the route, only half the times it tried running in the wrong direction.

So, what the problem is here is the "Swap placing" and "Swap block enter side".

So:

1) Does the little block arrow always have to point in the loco's exit direction out of the block?
2) Once the enter side it correct, how can you tell if the "placing" is correct? Nothing seems to indicate the placing, or is it one of the symbols in the loco list? If so, how should it be set?
3) Why can't RocRail figure out when it needs to change direction? "Allow change direction" is set in the block, why do I have to do it by manual control?


Thanks



-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
6m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline PMPeter  
#36 Posted : 23 February 2020 16:07:16(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,020
Location: Port Moody, BC
Hi,

1. When you drag a loco icon into a block for the start of Automatic control of that loco, the arrow shown in the block needs to agree with the physical forward direction of the chosen loco. If it is opposite then you have 2 choices: a) Rotate the loco to agree with the Rocrail block direction. b) In Rocrail in the Block Properties select "Swap block enter side".

2. For most cases the loco symbol for the locomotive direction should be > for the forward direction.

3. Rocrail will automatically change direction if you have a block defined as a Terminal Station, or if you have defined a train as a shuttle train and defined the blocks that the shuttle goes from and to.

Peter
Offline morsing  
#37 Posted : 26 February 2020 21:37:22(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 471
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
What's wrong with this picture (hint: Train ain't going nowhere):

UserPostedImage
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
6m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline PMPeter  
#38 Posted : 26 February 2020 22:25:51(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,020
Location: Port Moody, BC
That's an easy answer. You have the loco in Block 7. The block arrow indicates that your locomotive is positioned to head out to the left towards blocks 43, 44 and 45 and perhaps others on the left hand side that cannot be seen on your screen shot. Yet you have selected the destination block 9 on the right hand side. In Automatic mode the loco will not move because it cannot reach block 9 based on the track plan visible.

Peter
Offline morsing  
#39 Posted : 26 February 2020 22:31:14(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 471
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
... Yet you have selected the destination block 9 on the right hand side. In Automatic mode the loco will not move because it cannot reach block 9 based on the track plan visible.

Peter


Thanks, but... I haven't. Look at the server window at the bottom left. I selected block 43, which it seemed to accept, so no idea why it put block 9 on the loco.

Is there anything else wrong?
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
6m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline PMPeter  
#40 Posted : 26 February 2020 22:42:12(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,020
Location: Port Moody, BC
Because the first command it was given was to go to Block 9, followed by 3 commands to go to block 43. Until the first command is reset it will not follow through on the next 3. In the loco window it is very clear that its destination is block 9. Reset all, redrag the loco icon to block 7, make sure the Block 7 arrow and locomotive forward direction are the same and then switch to Automatic and drag the loco icon from block 7 to block 43 and it should move.
Offline morsing  
#41 Posted : 26 February 2020 22:57:22(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 471
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
Because the first command it was given was to go to Block 9, followed by 3 commands to go to block 43. Until the first command is reset it will not follow through on the next 3. In the loco window it is very clear that its destination is block 9. Reset all, redrag the loco icon to block 7, make sure the Block 7 arrow and locomotive forward direction are the same and then switch to Automatic and drag the loco icon from block 7 to block 43 and it should move.


Ah! Thanks a lot, that could be the cause of a lot of my problems! Don't know why the documentation doesn't mention this...

The only problem is why it didn't go to 9 in the first place, but that might be another directional issue.

Is there a way to see the destination queue for a loco?
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3
6m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline PMPeter  
#42 Posted : 26 February 2020 23:11:49(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,020
Location: Port Moody, BC
It could not go to block 9 from the initial command because the loco direction was set to exit from the left. In Rocrail unless you define a loco as bi-directional commuter loco or shuttle or it enters a Terminal Station block, the loco will always want to go in the forward direction. Since I can only see the screenshot that you provided, there is no possibility for that loco to go from Block 7 to Block 9 in the forward direction. You would need to manually turn your loco around and would need to Swap the block enter side of Block 7.

If you manually drag the loco icon to a destination block, that block should show up in the loco panel. If you just want the loco to start in Automatic with no specific destination and you have Reserve Second Next Block activated you should always see the next 2 blocks the loco is destined for by their yellow colour, which change to blue when the Enter sensor is activated and pink when the In sensor has been reached and then the next block turns yellow. This goes on until you reach a Wait block.
Offline applor  
#43 Posted : 27 February 2020 03:42:56(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,424
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Just to re-iterate what Peter is saying:

The arrow in the block is the direction the train is facing and must travel (irrespective of whether the loco itself is set to move forward/reverse, that is called swap placing - dont use it unless you want the train in reverse)
If the arrow is pointing in the wrong direction, simply right click on the loco and select 'swap block enter side' - assuming the loco is correctly placed on the track.

To set a destination, you right click on the loco and choose 'set destination'. The block chosen must have a valid route from where it currently is.
Then, once you start auto mode it will set that block as its destination.
Otherwise if you start auto mode normally it will randomly choose a destination based on routes available and other things you can set (such as train type, block length etc)

Also handy, if you set a loco destination and change your mind but the train is still in its original block, you right click and select 'soft reset loco auto mode'

Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post
Don't know why the documentation doesn't mention this...


It's documented, though it can be hard to understand or hard to find.

https://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=direction-en
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
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