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Offline river6109  
#1 Posted : 13 January 2020 13:07:18(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,791
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Hi, I wouldn't mind purchasing a new Märklin loco with sound and there are 2 examples come into my mind, SBB Ce 5/6 "Elephant", Ive got the Roco version but its pulling power as a freight loco up into the mountains is somewhat questionable, the other would be a SBB, the latest release from Märklin, (39520) Class Fc 2x3/4 "Köfferli". (Euro 435.00)
I don't think I ever bought a loco from Märklin with sound so it will be a challenge to part with a lot of money, if it ever will eventuate., mind you the sound decoders have dramatically improved over the years whereas the earlier ones just had a whistle and some sort of loco sound.

I don't think the price on these 2 models will come down in the foreseeable future but rather go up and I've noticed the SBB ICN 500 train set (5 parts) is advertised on ebay for around Euro 1100.00 and the supplementary set for around Euro 300.00, I bought mine (second hand but as new) for much less than half of this price.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Copenhagen  
#2 Posted : 13 January 2020 14:26:29(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 34
There are lots of Märklin locomotives with sound that are far, far cheaper than the Köferli.
Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 13 January 2020 15:09:42(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,585
Location: DE-NW
If Märklin offer models with and without sound, then the difference is about €60 RRP.
It seems models without sound do not sell well, so many variations are available with sound only.

The Köfferli is €580 RRP with sound. Without sound it would still be €520 RRP. Street prices will vary and people from outside the EU will save about 16% as the VAT is deducted.

Buy it if you think it is worth it.
It is not the sound that makes those models so expensive.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline David Dewar  
#4 Posted : 13 January 2020 16:49:13(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,826
Location: Scotland
Members who have bought the 39520 like it which is a good recommendation. Maybe somebody could confirm the pulling power for you. 435 euros looks not a bad price.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline hxmiesa  
#5 Posted : 13 January 2020 17:29:56(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,795
Location: Spain
It all depends... Are they made in China? ;-)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline mike c  
#6 Posted : 13 January 2020 17:35:11(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,467
Location: Montreal, QC
With the rumours about a 2020 Be 4/6, perhaps you want to hold on your new purchase until you see exactly what they will be offering.
There is also the metal Insider RAm that might be worth considering.

The one that I am eagerly awaiting is the LSM RBe 540/RBe 4/4.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline river6109  
#7 Posted : 13 January 2020 20:09:12(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,791
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
With the rumours about a 2020 Be 4/6, perhaps you want to hold on your new purchase until you see exactly what they will be offering.
There is also the metal Insider RAm that might be worth considering.

The one that I am eagerly awaiting is the LSM RBe 540/RBe 4/4.

Regards

Mike C


Mike, most of the Swiss and BLS locos are from Roco or HAG and I'm sure I've got a Be 4/6, I think I've got enough train sets like the ICE I, ICE 2, 2 sets of the ÖBB Trans Alpin, 1 SBB RABDe 500 (ICN), 1 Railjet.

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 14 January 2020 08:49:25(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,585
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
It all depends... Are they made in China? ;-)
Does it depend?
We all know Märklin does not make anything in China. Wink

The question is "Do you get good value for your money?"

More than a dozen years ago I hesitated a long time before spending more than €200 for a single loco. Later on there were other thresholds: €300, €400, €500, €600, ...
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline HO Collector  
#9 Posted : 14 January 2020 21:04:08(UTC)
HO Collector

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 105
Location: Just north of London
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
I don't think the price on these 2 models will come down in the foreseeable future but rather go up and I've noticed the SBB ICN 500 train set (5 parts) is advertised on ebay for around Euro 1100.00 and the supplementary set for around Euro 300.00, I bought mine (second hand but as new) for much less than half of this price.

John


John
I bought some sets because I liked them and because I thought that they will not come down in the foreseeable future, guess what? They are now less than 50% of what I paid.
Trains as an investment or a financial anchor? Cursing Cursing Cursing
Offline river6109  
#10 Posted : 15 January 2020 02:46:15(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,791
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: HO Collector Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
I don't think the price on these 2 models will come down in the foreseeable future but rather go up and I've noticed the SBB ICN 500 train set (5 parts) is advertised on ebay for around Euro 1100.00 and the supplementary set for around Euro 300.00, I bought mine (second hand but as new) for much less than half of this price.

John


John
I bought some sets because I liked them and because I thought that they will not come down in the foreseeable future, guess what? They are now less than 50% of what I paid.
Trains as an investment or a financial anchor? Cursing Cursing Cursing

investment: I've given up on that idea 20 years ago
it depends which items you thought after and suppose the numbers being produced.

John.

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Marcus01  
#11 Posted : 15 January 2020 04:57:06(UTC)
Marcus01

Canada   
Joined: 10/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
It all depends... Are they made in China? ;-)
Does it depend?
We all know Märklin does not make anything in China. Wink

The question is "Do you get good value for your money?"

More than a dozen years ago I hesitated a long time before spending more than €200 for a single loco. Later on there were other thresholds: €300, €400, €500, €600, ...


2C27C733-08F8-49FC-83C2-750069844253.jpeg

Laugh “We know they don’t make in China” except when the brand new loco turns up with a Made in China Sticker attached. Mad Wasn’t impressed. The loco is a few years old (old new stock) so I hope Marklin have stopped this practice now...
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Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 15 January 2020 08:59:36(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,585
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Marcus01 Go to Quoted Post
Laugh “We know they don’t make in China” except when the brand new loco turns up with a Made in China Sticker attached. Mad Wasn’t impressed. The loco is a few years old (old new stock) so I hope Marklin have stopped this practice now...
This loco was not made by Märklin, they just bought it and resold it.
They still do not make items in China, but they still resell items made in the Far East.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Marcus01  
#13 Posted : 19 January 2020 06:46:21(UTC)
Marcus01

Canada   
Joined: 10/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Marcus01 Go to Quoted Post
Laugh “We know they don’t make in China” except when the brand new loco turns up with a Made in China Sticker attached. Mad Wasn’t impressed. The loco is a few years old (old new stock) so I hope Marklin have stopped this practice now...
This loco was not made by Märklin, they just bought it and resold it.
They still do not make items in China, but they still resell items made in the Far East.



That is the oddest comment. Since when can a manufacturer put something that is not their product in their branded box and sell it for a premium price? There are consumer laws that protect us from manufacturers passing off false products, I think what you may be referring to is that marklin pawned off and got a another toy factory to make this product on their behalf. But its still marklin despite where it was made.
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Offline jonas_sthlm  
#14 Posted : 19 January 2020 12:52:42(UTC)
jonas_sthlm

Sweden   
Joined: 12/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 813
Location: Stockholm, Södermalm
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
This loco was not made by Märklin, they just bought it and resold it.
They still do not make items in China, but they still resell items made in the Far East.


Do we know who made the G2000 for Märklin?

Maybe that was the reason why we first now get the Hectorrail version Huh
Large Swedish train collection / CS3+ / 2x 60175 Booster /TC9 Gold/RemoteCS2/ K, C-Tracks / Favorites Class littRa/ Scale from the 1980s / Homepagemodelltag.seandyoutube.com
Offline Mark_1602  
#15 Posted : 19 January 2020 22:03:40(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 668
Location: Luxembourg
Hi guys,

You might have seen it before, but have another look at Märklin TV Episode 75, released in December 2015. I could only find the German version, but about 5 minutes into the video, there's a scene filmed at Märklin's factory in Györ, which shows Hungarian workers from the handpainting department working on the SBB Cargo version of the G2000. It seems that not every version of this model was made in China ...

SBB G2000 production in Györ

Best regards,

Mark
MÄRKLIN 4ever!! (*)
(*) This signature refers to those M* items which are truly good quality.
Offline jonas_sthlm  
#16 Posted : 19 January 2020 22:29:47(UTC)
jonas_sthlm

Sweden   
Joined: 12/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 813
Location: Stockholm, Södermalm
Ok, thx for the video link, my conclusion is that they use model from B-models

Can maybe be that they buy all parts and put them together in Hungarian...
Large Swedish train collection / CS3+ / 2x 60175 Booster /TC9 Gold/RemoteCS2/ K, C-Tracks / Favorites Class littRa/ Scale from the 1980s / Homepagemodelltag.seandyoutube.com
Offline David Dewar  
#17 Posted : 19 January 2020 23:24:41(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,826
Location: Scotland
I bought a radio recently which had a sitckers saying designed assembled in the UK from parts made in China. Most things I buy are not made in the UK or come from parts made in various countries. I have no problem where Marklin make or obtain parts as long as the product works and to date I have very few complaints.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#18 Posted : 19 January 2020 23:52:44(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,806
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: jonas_sthlm Go to Quoted Post
Ok, thx for the video link, my conclusion is that they use model from B-models

Can maybe be that they buy all parts and put them together in Hungarian...


Why do you think they buy in parts from elsewhere? OK, we know that items like pantographs have been bought in from Sommerfeld and motors from Maxon and Faulhaber, but detail parts I would expect to be made by Marklin.

t doubt they buy any main body parts from other manufacturers as a kit set to assemble themselves.
Offline river6109  
#19 Posted : 20 January 2020 00:21:21(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,791
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
I bought a radio recently which had a sitckers saying designed assembled in the UK from parts made in China. Most things I buy are not made in the UK or come from parts made in various countries. I have no problem where Marklin make or obtain parts as long as the product works and to date I have very few complaints.


Were you able to listen to the radio and hear any foreigners explaining the instructions how to operate the radio ? LOL

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline river6109  
#20 Posted : 20 January 2020 00:27:02(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,791
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jonas_sthlm Go to Quoted Post
Ok, thx for the video link, my conclusion is that they use model from B-models



doubt they buy any main body parts from other manufacturers as a kit set to assemble themselves.


sounds almost human, my wife is always looking for new body parts. LOL or are we talking about robots ?,

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Mark_1602  
#21 Posted : 20 January 2020 07:09:28(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 668
Location: Luxembourg
After I posted that video link yesterday evening, I also wondered if the chassis and the die-cast metal parts had been made elsewhere and then assembled in Györ. That would explain the sticker on the box.

In my opinion, what matters more than the production site is the actual quality of MRR items. A lot of the warranty cases I've had were items produced and/or assembled in Hungary, some in China. I think Märklin's had a problem with quality control for a long time.

Another issue is new tooling. In the 1990s, Märklin focused on era I-II new tooling, in the early 2000s, era III took over. I personally don't mind if they make era I-III items, retro tin-plate editions or even fantasy locos as long as they can sell that stuff, but ten years down the road from now, customers probably won't buy that anymore. Märklin hasn't done enough new tooling of modern locos in the last 20 or 30 years, and customers in some export countries were offered era IV-VI versions of old tooling locos for decades, such as the Swedish Rc. Now Märklin is trying to come up with more modern locos, but I wonder if all of them have been designed by Märklin engineers ...

Best regards,

Mark
MÄRKLIN 4ever!! (*)
(*) This signature refers to those M* items which are truly good quality.
Offline H0  
#22 Posted : 20 January 2020 09:14:02(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,585
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Marcus01 Go to Quoted Post
That is the oddest comment. Since when can a manufacturer put something that is not their product in their branded box and sell it for a premium price?
It's just a matter of negotiations. There are many OEMs in the world.
How much Märklin engineering was in the "Märklin" soldering station?

I have "Märklin"tank cars that were made "by" Tillig and that came in the typical Tillig box but with a Märklin logo. There were other rebranded items from Fleischmann, Brawa, Bemo, and others.

Pictures of "Märklin"'s Bay S 2/6 appeared on the site of Korean Brass some time ago. We do not know what that means.
Who made the moulds? Who owns the moulds and the rights? Who made the parts? We can speculate only because I do not think that Märklin insiders will share their knowledge.

Originally Posted by: Marcus01 Go to Quoted Post
But its still marklin despite where it was made.

Some "Märklin" products do not have a grain of Märklin knowledge or Märklin philosophy inside. Some of them are really good products, but for me they are not Märklin.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline river6109  
#23 Posted : 20 January 2020 10:11:53(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,791
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I think the whole model train world will change in a few years, I'm going to be 76 this year and have reduced my purchases in the last 10 years, looking at train videos the age around 30 is minimal and the top viewers are between 50-60 years of age., getting to my age it isn't so exiting anymore to get hooked on trains regardless how great they look, so will it make any difference a few years down the track where the locos will be produced. one would ask also is the demand still there or are the higher prices compensating the short fall on sales.
It may look good, the sales have gone up but this is most times, associated with profits and not numbers of units sold.

I don't think the Märklin believers would be happy if anything was made in China or other countries than Germany.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
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