Hi, I wouldn't mind purchasing a new Märklin loco with sound and there are 2 examples come into my mind, SBB Ce 5/6 "Elephant", Ive got the Roco version but its pulling power as a freight loco up into the mountains is somewhat questionable, the other would be a SBB, the latest release from Märklin, (39520) Class Fc 2x3/4 "Köfferli". (Euro 435.00)
I don't think I ever bought a loco from Märklin with sound so it will be a challenge to part with a lot of money, if it ever will eventuate., mind you the sound decoders have dramatically improved over the years whereas the earlier ones just had a whistle and some sort of loco sound.

I don't think the price on these 2 models will come down in the foreseeable future but rather go up and I've noticed the SBB ICN 500 train set (5 parts) is advertised on ebay for around Euro 1100.00 and the supplementary set for around Euro 300.00, I bought mine (second hand but as new) for much less than half of this price.

John

If Märklin offer models with and without sound, then the difference is about €60 RRP.
It seems models without sound do not sell well, so many variations are available with sound only.

The Köfferli is €580 RRP with sound. Without sound it would still be €520 RRP. Street prices will vary and people from outside the EU will save about 16% as the VAT is deducted.

Buy it if you think it is worth it.
It is not the sound that makes those models so expensive.

It all depends... Are they made in China? ;-)

Mike, most of the Swiss and BLS locos are from Roco or HAG and I'm sure I've got a Be 4/6, I think I've got enough train sets like the ICE I, ICE 2, 2 sets of the ÖBB Trans Alpin, 1 SBB RABDe 500 (ICN), 1 Railjet.

John
I bought some sets because I liked them and because I thought that they will not come down in the foreseeable future, guess what? They are now less than 50% of what I paid.
Trains as an investment or a financial anchor?

“We know they don’t make in China” except when the brand new loco turns up with a Made in China Sticker attached. Wasn’t impressed. The loco is a few years old (old new stock) so I hope Marklin have stopped this practice now...

That is the oddest comment. Since when can a manufacturer put something that is not their product in their branded box and sell it for a premium price? There are consumer laws that protect us from manufacturers passing off false products, I think what you may be referring to is that marklin pawned off and got a another toy factory to make this product on their behalf. But its still marklin despite where it was made.

Hi guys,

You might have seen it before, but have another look at Märklin TV Episode 75, released in December 2015. I could only find the German version, but about 5 minutes into the video, there's a scene filmed at Märklin's factory in Györ, which shows Hungarian workers from the handpainting department working on the SBB Cargo version of the G2000. It seems that not every version of this model was made in China ...

SBB G2000 production in Györ

Edited by user 23 February 2020 08:53:32(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I bought a radio recently which had a sitckers saying designed assembled in the UK from parts made in China. Most things I buy are not made in the UK or come from parts made in various countries. I have no problem where Marklin make or obtain parts as long as the product works and to date I have very few complaints.

Were you able to listen to the radio and hear any foreigners explaining the instructions how to operate the radio ?

After I posted that video link yesterday evening, I also wondered if the chassis and the die-cast metal parts had been made elsewhere and then assembled in Györ. That would explain the sticker on the box.

In my opinion, what matters more than the production site is the actual quality of MRR items. A lot of the warranty cases I've had were items produced and/or assembled in Hungary, some in China. I think Märklin's had a problem with quality control for a long time.

Another issue is new tooling. In the 1990s, Märklin focused on era I-II new tooling, in the early 2000s, era III took over. I personally don't mind if they make era I-III items, retro tin-plate editions or even fantasy locos as long as they can sell that stuff, but ten years down the road from now, customers probably won't buy that anymore. Märklin hasn't done enough new tooling of modern locos in the last 20 or 30 years, and customers in some export countries were offered era IV-VI versions of old tooling locos for decades, such as the Swedish Rc. Now Märklin is trying to come up with more modern locos, but I wonder if all of them have been designed by Märklin engineers ...

Edited by user 23 February 2020 08:53:13(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I think the whole model train world will change in a few years, I'm going to be 76 this year and have reduced my purchases in the last 10 years, looking at train videos the age around 30 is minimal and the top viewers are between 50-60 years of age., getting to my age it isn't so exiting anymore to get hooked on trains regardless how great they look, so will it make any difference a few years down the track where the locos will be produced. one would ask also is the demand still there or are the higher prices compensating the short fall on sales.
It may look good, the sales have gone up but this is most times, associated with profits and not numbers of units sold.

I don't think the Märklin believers would be happy if anything was made in China or other countries than Germany.

John

Interesting to see what the increase in the price of materials and wages have been over the past few years. Also the prices of Faller kits have also increased considerably so it is not just Marklin. Our hobby is now at the luxury end of the toy market. Just looking at the cost of a sound decoder gives an idea of where the cost is in some locos. However there is PIKO who can produce some items at a lower price and I did buy a loco which is quite good but to be fair does not quite match Marklin but represents good value and I would buy others.
Anybody coming into the hobby and wanting to take it further must expect to pay a considerable sum over a number years if building a layout of a reasonable size with digital control. I don't think manufacturers or most dealers are making large profits and in the future many will no longer be able to continue. Here in the UK HO is not well represented and like myself most of us buy from Germany.

Costs of of designing and making moulds are very high but as I understand it the moulds can last a very long time (and can be modified up to a point). Indeed the sets of moulds themselves become a significant part of the company's assets. The rights to the moulds are vested in the company itself.

A problem arises if the moulds are held by a third part responsible for manufacture and the company itself that owns the moulds goes into liquidation owing the third party manufacturer money. A new owner might find it very difficult to get them back.

Hi John,

I don't think the new owners want to sell Märklin, though it's certainly true that they have made Märklin models more expensive to recoup their investment. It's a business, not a charity. In the interview I mentioned above, the Siebers admitted that they weren't very happy about the situation in Hungary, and made it clear that they actually regretted having invested so much money into a town close to the Austrian border, where it is very hard to find and keep good workers. Another statement they made is that if they were to build or expand a factory, they would not do so in Germany because of high energy costs.

There are actually rumors saying that the Siebers intend to set up a factory in Vietnam where they will be co-owners. I don't know if that is true, but one thing I've noticed is that Märklin has hired Roco's ex-product manager, Mr Reindl. He must have a lot of useful know-how ... A factory in Vietnam would heally help Simba Dickie Toys because it could not only produce MRR items, but also plastic toys that are increasingly expensive to make in China. Suppliers from China are less reliable nowadays, so Vietnam might be the solution.

Edited by user 23 February 2020 08:52:36(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Any financial investor today is greedy by definition. They just care for making money with money, otherwise why should they care moving manufacturing to low income countries like Vietnam?

Anyway, no politics

C.

You should get your definitions right. Märklin is not a financial investor. Märklin is a company that employs thousands of people in Germany and abroad and Märklin is constantly developing, producing and creating products. If it wasn't taken over by an investment group in 2006 it might not have existed today. If some of the production wasn't done overseas or in countries with lower costs the products would be even more pricey than what you already think they are.

I can see that TEEWolf also have responded - and with more details than I have.

If that is the case then everything is good for you and you have no reason to complain. I'm just not convinced that what you say is generally true. New models from Märklin are usually produced in a limited number and when they're sold out from the factory it's up to the local dealers if they want to sell at a discount or not. Having a small model railroad shop isn't a gold mine these days.
In my country I'm lucky to have a few shops that sell stuff at a bit lower rate than the officially listed prices for some items - but apart from that prices rarely go down.

Well guys thanks for all the responds, I've come to the conclusion it is a matter of liking an item and paying the price and not the other way around, furthermore I think it is fair to say the owners of Märklin would like to see a higher return on their manufactured products but it is not totally clear whether they will make a move to Vietnam, so on one hand they're happy with the sales results and the profit they're making but on the other hand they would like to see more profits and maybe new tooling to be introduced., does this mean they are restricted going further ahead with their current production facility and wage structure. You don't mind me saying but there have been numerous occasions whereas the same model came out in different or fantasy items. (crocodile) but at the same time enthusiasts were eager to buy these items. it is also interesting to read: who owns the moulds as an example the saga with ESU back than.
Another oddity I've noticed was the DB BR 360, for some unknown reason everybody seem to produce this model along with BR 194, 193, E 93/94, another one I can think of is the DB BR 103., Märklin looks like was the only one who produced variant of the crocodile in vast numbers.
I was surprised to see Märklin producing the SBB Ce 5/6 "Elephant" and going for the newer model, the forerunner of the crocodile (Köferli = SBB Fc 2x3/4),
I've watched a Märklin video how to program 2 trains automatically, it was new to me this was possible without any other electronic gadgets. it started the loco in 1 track, turned the turnout and set the signal to green, increased the speed than approaching the siding of track 1 again decreasing the speed and returned into track 1 with another turnout switching automatically and stopping and than starting the loco on track 2 with the same procedure and programming, very impressive. it didn't show the technical side of it but apparently this option didn't leave the sound on in the siding.



John

Edited by user 11 February 2020 09:14:47(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

for argument say if they move to Vietnam and are able to produce more moulds at a cheaper price, cheaper wages will this mean we have a choice of even more models to buy and put the long awaiting holiday again on hold and sell the current car to an imported Vietnamese model ? all you need than is a Vietnamese wife, Vietnamese food and you life has turned a full circle for the better and while you conquer all these new experiences you may can afford a holiday to Vietnam and for good measures learn a view Vietnamese words, like: mô hình xe lửa or Ở ĐÂU LÀ CỬA HÀNG ĐÀO TẠO MÔ HÌNH NHẤT.

tận hưởng thế giới mơ ước của bạn

John

Why taking the long and winding road, when the direct lane is the easiest connection?

https://www.maerklin.de/...hmen/karriere/ueber-uns/

Maerklin writes as per 31.12.2019 (not so long ago) they had 1.130 employees and 2 production plants: Goeppingen and Gyoer (Hungary)

https://www.maerklin.de/de/unternehmen/standorte/

And almost everybody of us is speaking Hungarian (unfortunately I don't )

https://www.maerklin.de/...any/maerklin-in-hungary/

https://www.maerklin.de/...nehmen/maerklin-im-bild/

the intersting part are these 2 videos

https://www.maerklin.de/...ia-unser-werk-in-ungarn/

https://www.maerklin.de/...-werk-in-ungarn-folge-2/

All right enough for today.

P-S. of course, if you do not understand this schwäbischen (Swabian) slang of Mr. Gräßle, please feel free asking for support.

Hi Tom,

Does the job guarantee for Märklin workers only apply to Göppingen? If that's the case, Märklin might open a factory in Vietnam or some other country where they can find qualified workers more easily than in Hungary and eventually give up Györ if things work out better in Asia.

Do you know if Roco is happy with the results of its Vietnamese factory?

Edited at: by user 23 February 2020 08:52:07(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Cem. We would all like to pay less for Marklin and I do not buy a lot of locos (maybe one and at times two per year) I do buy a lot of Faller kits and it can be a shock when you see what you get for your cash but it does take time to build some of these so there is value there. For value in Locos PIKO looks not bad and they are OK but not Marklin so it is a matter of choice.
Good to see you back posting.

David