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Collector		#101 Posted : 04 August 2017 23:32:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC) Posts: 147 Location: Europe		Originally Posted by: steventrain I email marklin customer service on the 3rd July and got reply from Frank Mayer the next day said the correct fully cab window is on way. Still not arrive yet, i email Marklin three time but no reply. I post letter to Marklin CEO about problem with Marklin Customer service/Insider email, I send 12 emails but only one reply. Not good Hi Steven, Did you see any picture anywhere of a 39170 where the problem was corrected? If you got a real reply of the ACTUAL CEO (NOT his secretary) inside of 12 attempts I would say you were doing quite well!! Thank You and Kind Regards, Michael
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steventrain		#102 Posted : 04 August 2017 23:33:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,606 Location: United Kingdom		The problem is about 1mm short each end of cab windows.
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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TEEWolf		#103 Posted : 05 August 2017 01:34:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: Minok Originally Posted by: TEEWolf If you may have a look into Maerklin's database on their pictures of the 39170 there, it shows a good fitting of the front window and a bad fitting of the left side window. This window is bad fitting? If so what is bad about it? (understanding these are pre-mass production product photos) Or is it the right side window? Again, what is bad about it? If its the clear plastic part (the rim of which gets painted silver I think).. then the mold that makes it (or the formulation/production process itself) may have a glitch if the part is not coming out of production the shape it is supposed to have. Hello Minok, yes, you are right and I recognized it too. This was the reason I looked at my own models. The result are my pictures. I am still worried and you may understand, if you see this picture: This picture is also from Maerklin's database. The front window is certainly well done. But the window at the left side shows a gap on top of the window. Doing such pictures, it is not easy, because of the light, angle, distance, etc.. Anyway, I think @steventrain cleared it up with his own pictures of his model. I say definitely better, but not best for the price of this loco. I also have this model on order and shall get it in August too. Lets further discuss it, after I received it and had done some pictures of my loco. Then we see as mine will look like. In September I want to go to the IMA days. Last time Märklin had a desk for repairs and complaints. I hope this time to find a similar one then too. regards TEEWolf
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dickinsonj		#104 Posted : 05 August 2017 02:07:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,683 Location: Crozet, Virginia		Originally Posted by: steventrain I email marklin customer service on the 3rd July and got reply from Frank Mayer the next day said the correct fully cab window is on way. Still not arrive yet, i email Marklin three time but no reply. I post letter to Marklin CEO about problem with Marklin Customer service/Insider email, I send 12 emails but only one reply. Not good I agree. If they screw this new Insider model up I may be done with expensive but defective Insider "Special Editions". As soon as I saw a picture of the early locos I could see the problem - does anyone really believe that Märklin could not see it? They clearly just said "ship them anyway", like they are cheap appliances that no one cares about. Märklin sold these to collectors and then they hoped that we would just not notice 3rd world fit and finish in our oh so special locos? Incredible.
		Regards, Jim I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains! So many trains and so little time.
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Minok		#105 Posted : 05 August 2017 02:25:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,311 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf The front window is certainly well done. But the window at the left side shows a gap on top of the window. This is from a photo of an actual 103; I wonder if the dark area near the top is the shadow cause by the rain gutter on the model. I agree, we should wait until we get our US models later this month or so and then have something in hand to talk about and show. Looking at the photos from the Märklin site for the 39170 it is clear that they come from at least two different model runs, at least some of which are likely prototype and/or pre-production. Note the window frame differences from one image to another - sometimes flat and very solid fitting, then on others rounded and not quite as solidly fitting. Also the missing monofiliment clear wire that is used to control the raising and lowering of the pantographs missing (maybe for photo sake, maybe edited out, maybe not there in the prototype model). Once we have the real model, then we can either relax or loose our minds even more.
		Toys of tin and wood rule! --- My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4 My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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H0		#106 Posted : 05 August 2017 07:46:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,265 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Do not understand, why the lenght of a cabin and/or other wipers are influencing the alignment fitting of a front and/or side window? They now need windshield inserts without attached wipers while the old locos had inserts with attached wipers. This just indicates that the new parts come from a new mould and that it is not relevant to look at pictures of the old, shortened loco.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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steventrain		#107 Posted : 05 August 2017 12:16:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,606 Location: United Kingdom		Mailing cab windows arrive today. Before fitted. After fitted.
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Collector		#108 Posted : 05 August 2017 14:09:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC) Posts: 147 Location: Europe		Steven, that looks like a NON-fix Any chance there was some confusion and Marklin never made new cab windows?
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steventrain		#109 Posted : 05 August 2017 14:25:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,606 Location: United Kingdom		Originally Posted by: Collector Steven, that looks like a NON-fix Any chance there was some confusion and Marklin never made new cab windows? I contact marklin again, Will let know soon.
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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dickinsonj		#110 Posted : 05 August 2017 14:57:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,683 Location: Crozet, Virginia		Originally Posted by: steventrain I contact marklin again, Will let know soon. It is bizarre how the new and improved inserts fit just as poorly as the originals. It makes you wonder if Märklin even knows what the exact dimensions of the opening in the body are. They should recall all of these models and ship them out again whenever they figure out what is going on. At this point I would prefer to be able to just cancel my order for this thing and move on. I guess that means I can be certain that the inserts will not fit in my 103.1 model, whether I get the new windows or the old ones. If they don't fix this then I am definitely done buying expensive Insider models and paying for an Insider Club membership just to get the chance to buy defective products. Amazing.
		Regards, Jim I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains! So many trains and so little time.
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petestra		#111 Posted : 05 August 2017 15:12:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC) Posts: 5,824 Location: Leesburg,VA.USA		Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Originally Posted by: steventrain I contact marklin again, Will let know soon. It is bizarre how the new and improved inserts fit just as poorly as the originals. It makes you wonder if Märklin even knows what the exact dimensions of the opening in the body are. They should recall all of these models and ship them out again whenever they figure out what is going on. At this point I would prefer to be able to just cancel my order for this thing and move on. I guess that means I can be certain that the inserts will not fit in my 103.1 model, whether I get the new windows or the old ones. If they don't fix this then I am definitely done buying expensive Insider models and paying for an Insider Club membership just to get the chance to buy defective products. Amazing. I agree, Jim. As a long time M customer I'd like to get my Lok "right"! I don't mind waiting. Peter
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Minok		#112 Posted : 05 August 2017 18:30:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,311 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		So the new window is just like the old window. I'm guessing they assumed from the email that the window you had was defective and sent you more of the same window. I'm guessing they think the existing parts fit just fine. Turns out the window is manufactured to the wrong shape and that's the bit Märklin isn't getting. Unless you communicate with a photo showing the precise issue I'm not sure the issue you see will be the issue they assume you are having. I suspect I'll be contacting Märklin USA some point in august.
		Toys of tin and wood rule! --- My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4 My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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steventrain		#113 Posted : 11 August 2017 22:12:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,606 Location: United Kingdom		Marklin will try send correct cab windows in the post last few days - I will let know to see how fit it.
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Minok		#114 Posted : 12 August 2017 01:03:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,311 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		Cool. Looking forward to photos of what your receive. I'd sent an email to Märklin USA On the 6th including a bit of your photo showing the gap clearly and they indicated they would pass the info on to the appropriate person. On the plus side this issue is something that can be fixed.
		Toys of tin and wood rule! --- My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4 My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Alberto Pedrini		#115 Posted : 12 August 2017 10:13:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,448 Location: Italy		103 insider vs 03 39573 insider paint and size defects 103 insider vs Roco same model, long cab. and last, how save paint money The defects are amplified by the macro photo, when I run the loco on the layout don't see it, but I think that Mum must not consider we "Insider" as chickens...
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Minok		#116 Posted : 12 August 2017 17:59:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,311 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		Originally Posted by: Alberto Pedrini and last, how save paint money What is the issue with the Märklin paint job? This is what the roof of an actual 103 looked like.
		Toys of tin and wood rule! --- My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4 My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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TEEWolf		#117 Posted : 13 August 2017 00:42:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: Alberto Pedrini 103 insider vs 03 39573 Thank you Alberto for this excellent pictures for comparison purposes. I did not research yet, but I have an E 03 002 (3053 from 1965 - still analogue) and this model has also a much lighter coat of paint and only one row of ventilator cover. This is absolutely correct, because these "one row ventilator cover engine" were from the preproduction series of the E 03, as your 39573 model. More about the preproduction series of the E 03 here: E 03 Preproduction Here I found a few nice pictures in another community from our member @Steventrain, which gives a very good overview of the various colours of an E 03/103. Irish Railway Modeller pictures E 03/103 IRM # 2 Plenty of E 03/103 models including your 39573 as you can compare by the listed article #. Here pictures from the original life E 03, please: E 03 Preproduction Original If you scroll down, you find plenty of more pictures of all types of the E 03/103. For me are the differences in the colour quite normal. Another question is the colour difference between your Maerklin 103 and the Roco 103. But cannot be the error at Roco's side? If macro picture or not, it does not matter. Your pictures show a gap between the front shield window and its front spar of the new Insider 103 which is not acceptable. Especially prior models from Maerklin E 03/103 did not have this gap. This was already shown above in this thread. This is an unacceptable degradation of Maerklin's quality. I am looking forward as mine ordered model will look like. regards Wolfgang
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dickinsonj		#118 Posted : 13 August 2017 01:29:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,683 Location: Crozet, Virginia		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf If macro picture or not, it does not matter. Your pictures show a gap between the front shield window and its front spar of the new Insider 103 which is not acceptable. Especially prior models from Maerklin E 03/103 did not have this gap. This was already shown above in this thread. This is an unacceptable degradation of Maerklin's quality. I am looking forward as mine ordered model will look like. regards Wolfgang Same here - I am waiting to see if the windows fit in my 103 and I am not at all in a hurry for it to arrive. Slow deliveries might mean that Märklin finally is recognizing this problem and perhaps fixing it before more customer models are delivered. My very old 103 from the 80's has perfect window fit, even though it is overall quite basic in comparison. Märklin has been doing this part right for a really, really long time and it is amazing for it to happen today where everything is spec'd in CAD drawings for all of the component makers to share. I also find it odd that they shipped defective models to Insider Club members who are essentially guaranteed to not accept substandard models. I will learn a lot about where Märklin is positioning themselves in the market by how they handle this, even though I suspect that I will not like the answer.
		Regards, Jim I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains! So many trains and so little time.
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H0		#119 Posted : 13 August 2017 08:56:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,265 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Another question is the colour difference between your Maerklin 103 and the Roco 103. But cannot be the error at Roco's side? The colour used for the "cream" part changed from "beige" to "ivory" over time, so maybe both are correct. What are the revision dates? Another question is "silver" versus "cream" or "grey" on the roof. I don't know which one is correct. Couldn't both be correct?
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Alberto Pedrini		#120 Posted : 13 August 2017 12:28:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,448 Location: Italy		My note about the paint is only for the silver ventilation grilles, but it's a not important detail. The color of the livery could be different in the years, no matter. For the front windows I hope that they could produce and a correct model and send it to all the owners. It's easy change it.
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TEEWolf		#121 Posted : 13 August 2017 23:52:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: H0 The colour used for the "cream" part changed from "beige" to "ivory" over time, so maybe both are correct. What are the revision dates? Another question is "silver" versus "cream" or "grey" on the roof. I don't know which one is correct. Couldn't both be correct? OK - I made a quick short research and - yes, both is correct. Only the preproduction series of 4 engines had the silver roof as well as the one row ventilator cover. The regular series has painted roofs like the rest of the body colour and two rows of ventilator covers. The first colour scheme - beside the roof - was for the preproduction and final series the same: ruby/beige. Round about 1974 these scheme was changed to purple red/ivory. Because the original colours were not enough light-resistant. This was the reason for the change, whereas you see the differences of the colours only in a direct comparison. For collectors do a view to the German “Modellbau Wiki” E 03 to get the overview. http://www.modellbau-wiki.de/wiki/E_03 No idea about the revision date. But why is this important? But only the Insider 103.1 has these "gappy windows".
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H0		#122 Posted : 14 August 2017 07:57:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,265 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf No idea about the revision date. But why is this important? Colour was changed from "beige" to "ivory" at some stage. Other colour details changed too at revisions. The Roco model looks nice with those silver details on the roof. This thread is about long BR 103.1 locos and they never had a completely silver roof, but there still are differences between Roco and Märklin. See the picture Alberto commented with "and last, how save paint money".
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Minok		#123 Posted : 14 August 2017 21:55:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,311 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		Originally Posted by: H0 This thread is about long BR 103.1 locos and they never had a completely silver roof, but there still are differences between Roco and Märklin. See the picture Alberto commented with "and last, how save paint money". So what is the BR103 long loco paint job issue that is supposedly seen in that "and last, how save paint money" image? I'm still not seeing it, unless the indication is the places where the Roco model is painted differently from the Märklin - but as I'd pointed out, an actual prototypical late model BR 103 didn't have such Roco colorations either - the Märklin roof garden looks correct to me. (Post #116 ) The only thing that matters is does the Märklin 103 look like a Deutsche Bundesbahn 103 of the era, and from what I can tell it does. If it doesn't (beyond the window issue), could you clarify how it varies from prototype?
		Toys of tin and wood rule! --- My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4 My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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steventrain		#124 Posted : 18 August 2017 17:25:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,606 Location: United Kingdom		Full windows set arrive here from marklin. Fitted to BR103.1 later.
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Collector		#125 Posted : 18 August 2017 18:02:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC) Posts: 147 Location: Europe		Originally Posted by: steventrain Full windows set arrive here from marklin. Fitted to BR103.1 later. They sent a second set? Curious to see the pictures to see if this solves the issue.
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steventrain		#126 Posted : 18 August 2017 18:32:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,606 Location: United Kingdom		Originally Posted by: Collector Originally Posted by: steventrain Full windows set arrive here from marklin. Fitted to BR103.1 later. They sent a second set? Curious to see the pictures to see if this solves the issue. Here is the photos, It look much better now.
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Minok		#127 Posted : 18 August 2017 19:17:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,311 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		Awesome. That means 1) They know of the issue and 2) They have the production hardware to make the correct fitting windows. So us still waiting for our insider 103's now don't have to sweat it any more. Worst case we get replacement windows, best case they are swapping them out before they ship us locomotives with poorly fitting windows.
		Toys of tin and wood rule! --- My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4 My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Collector		#128 Posted : 18 August 2017 20:21:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC) Posts: 147 Location: Europe		Originally Posted by: steventrain Originally Posted by: Collector Originally Posted by: steventrain Full windows set arrive here from marklin. Fitted to BR103.1 later. They sent a second set? Curious to see the pictures to see if this solves the issue. Here is the photos, It look much better now. Hi Steven, Thanks for the pictures! Given that the first set of windshields was as bad as what was originally fitted, what did you do different the second time to get these which do indeed look much better? I am trying to find out what to do to prevent getting the "non-fix" you got the first time and get the correct ones in one attempt. BTW what is the header of the SECOND column in the letter in the above picture? Thanks and Kind Regards, Michael
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dickinsonj		#129 Posted : 19 August 2017 02:10:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,683 Location: Crozet, Virginia		Originally Posted by: Collector I am trying to find out what to do to prevent getting the "non-fix" you got the first time and get the correct ones in one attempt. Good luck with that. Just the fact that Märklin sent out replacement windshields that don't fit either, shows that this may not go smoothly for any of us. I have heard nothing about mine and at this point I am just fine with that.
		Regards, Jim I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains! So many trains and so little time.
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kiwiAlan		#130 Posted : 20 August 2017 16:26:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,103 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		So, are these replacement windows sent automatically to all purchasers of the 103, or do I need to do something to request mine?
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twmarklinfan		#131 Posted : 20 August 2017 19:32:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/05/2015(UTC) Posts: 362 Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent, United Kingdom		When I received my loco, I sent an e Mail to Marklin and the replacements were with me in 4 days. I think you have to ask.
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dickinsonj		#132 Posted : 21 August 2017 00:36:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,683 Location: Crozet, Virginia		Originally Posted by: twmarklinfan When I received my loco, I sent an e Mail to Marklin and the replacements were with me in 4 days. I think you have to ask. I am sure that each of us will have to ask before anything is done but the speedy response is encouraging. And how do the new replacements fit?
		Regards, Jim I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains! So many trains and so little time.
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Collector		#133 Posted : 21 August 2017 01:47:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC) Posts: 147 Location: Europe		Originally Posted by: twmarklinfan When I received my loco, I sent an e Mail to Marklin and the replacements were with me in 4 days. I think you have to ask. Did the replacement set include the side windows as well and did they all fit properly?
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Bigdaddynz		#134 Posted : 21 August 2017 06:23:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,663 Location: New Zealand		Originally Posted by: twmarklinfan When I received my loco, I sent an e Mail to Marklin and the replacements were with me in 4 days. I think you have to ask. So I'm assuming you told Marklin you had a 39170, and what your Insider Club membership number is, and asked for a set of replacement windows?? Did you have to quote part numbers, etc?
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TEEWolf		#135 Posted : 22 August 2017 19:04:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		I received my 103.1 long with the TEE Parsifal coaches last week. And I have to confess the windows are not as accurate as at my other 103 locos. But there is also not an unacceptable gap of the built in windscreens. So I decided to keep this loco as it is. See some pictures from my locos class 103.
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franciscohg		#136 Posted : 22 August 2017 22:00:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,268 Location: Patagonia		Hi, it looks just like mine, i dont find the gap that terrible, but since there are replacements windows that fits better i will ask for them and see
		German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Collector		#137 Posted : 22 August 2017 22:12:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC) Posts: 147 Location: Europe		TEEWolf, it seems that the side windows do have a big gap.
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dickinsonj		#138 Posted : 23 August 2017 00:48:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,683 Location: Crozet, Virginia		Originally Posted by: Collector TEEWolf, it seems that the side windows do have a big gap. My friend Wolfgang sent me these images a couple of days ago and I have studied them carefully while I wait for my 103.1 to show up. In my opinion the front windshield fits fairly well, although it does not completely fill the body opening. Neither side window fits well at all, with a large gap at the front. On the LHS the gap varies in width from top to bottom as well. If mine looks like that I will expect new pieces or I will be really dissatisfied. I have not seen images of the cab at the other end of the loco but it would most likely be a similar fit. Wolfgang joined the club to get this loco and he was kind enough to have Märklin send the referral reward wagon to me. His dealer screwed up his order which was placed just at the end of the order period and after he finally got that straightened out and then he waited for months, the windows don't fit the loco body. I'm sure that he will share how he feels about all of this with us soon, but I find that totally unacceptable and very poor performance on Märklin's part from start to finish. This is what we get as "special" Märklin collectors due to our Insider Club membership. Nice
		Regards, Jim I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains! So many trains and so little time.
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Bigdaddynz		#139 Posted : 23 August 2017 10:54:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,663 Location: New Zealand		Received my 39170 today. Here's some photos showing all 4 corners. The side windows seem OK, but there is a small gap on the front windows. In reality these closeup photos exacerbate the issue and make it look worse than it really is. Viewing the loco normally you probably wouldn't really notice unless someone pointed it out or you happened to take some close up photos!
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Bigdaddynz		#140 Posted : 23 August 2017 11:01:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,663 Location: New Zealand		And for comparison sakes, here's some photos of my recently received 3053....
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dickinsonj		#141 Posted : 23 August 2017 15:39:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,683 Location: Crozet, Virginia		Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Received my 39170 today. Here's some photos showing all 4 corners. Thanks for the images. The fit of your window inserts seems somewhat better than others that I have seen. You make a good point in that it probably looks better when viewed normally than in closeup images. I have seen details on my locos that stand out in pictures but which are not observable in ordinary use. I bet that if I stand back and close one eye it will look perfect. If mine bothers me too much I guess I will just try to move it along to someone else and not worry about it. Insider models should be fairly easy to sell since they are of limited availability and this one has several very nice features which go above and beyond normal Märklin locos.
		Regards, Jim I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains! So many trains and so little time.
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Minok		#142 Posted : 23 August 2017 17:01:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,311 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		I wonder how they look in the dark with the cab lighting on. Would the gap be separately illuminated?
		Toys of tin and wood rule! --- My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4 My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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franciscohg		#143 Posted : 23 August 2017 19:05:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,268 Location: Patagonia		Excellent remark!!!! Just checked and yes, there is a very tiny light escape from the gap
		German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Alberto Pedrini		#144 Posted : 23 August 2017 22:32:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,448 Location: Italy		Originally Posted by: franciscohg Excellent remark!!!! Just checked and yes, there is a very tiny light escape from the gap yes http://www.marklinfan.ne...18/DB-br103-39170-07.jpg
		Alberto Marklinfan Club Italia www.marklinfan.net
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Minok		#145 Posted : 23 August 2017 23:44:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,311 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		Originally Posted by: Alberto Pedrini Originally Posted by: franciscohg Excellent remark!!!! Just checked and yes, there is a very tiny light escape from the gap yes Yeah, that looks bad. So either get the windows replaced or one can fill the gap from inside with putty or something.. but for a new 'insider' loco I'd expect it to be better - after all the front windscreen doesn't open to let in air.. I'm somewhat surprised this made it past the Märklin quality control checks for the production process... so I guess they have little to no QC check in place then other than visual inspection by the folks assembling, and the person who puts in the windscreen either didn't pull the cord to stop production (as they failed to notice, didn't care, or business pressures had them keep going and hope no one noticed), or they did notice and the company decided to ship it anyway to not delay delivery and thus only replace it for those users that cared enough to notice and speak up about it. The ding to reputation was apparently deemed acceptable. Given the Roco/Fleischman situation, I'm not sure if thats a sign of the times or a bad move on M's part.
		Toys of tin and wood rule! --- My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4 My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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TEEWolf		#146 Posted : 24 August 2017 21:31:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: Minok I wonder how they look in the dark with the cab lighting on. Would the gap be separately illuminated? No, because the light shines from inside the driver's cab through the gap. The quicker you run the loco the more impressive is the "light line". If your track circuit is not too large and you are getting the loco fast enough, perhaps you may catch the cats tail - äh sorry the lights end. . P.S.: do no take it serious.
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TEEWolf		#147 Posted : 25 August 2017 00:39:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Seriously, it is as BDNZ wrote in his post #139. But I have to add, my other 103 Maerklin models have better fitting windows (front as well as side one) as at my Insider 103 one does it fit. For a 400 € model I expect a better build quality. But as I wrote already, I accept it as it is, because it is only obvious if it is pointed out. I checked my engine once more. There is no gap where the light is shining through. What you see at the picture cannot be a slot between the window and the corpus. Otherwise no window would ever retain in the window frame. The minimum then is to fill a possible slot up with a glue or similar fluid. But then no light will come through. There may be a gap by an insufficient colour cover. This I got at my beige-blue 103 as you see at the picture at my post #93. Another possibility for zinc die-cast body could have been a too much widened window. This may happen while the body is not correctly deburred and polished. The window frame is too widened, but then the windscreen does also not retain in the window frame. This is a serious quality problem. The corpus is not usable and has to return for melting down again. A real window gap I do have with my 3053 E 03 002. This loco I bought brand new round about 1968. Sometime I lost the windscreen and do not know the reason. I read in a German community that such a lost is quite common for this model. I do have to mount the window, but I am not yet certain which paste I shall use. Because some people warned using a glue. They recommend using only clear varnish, which I do not have yet. Does anybody have a recommendation for such a clear varnish?
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dickinsonj		#148 Posted : 25 August 2017 01:19:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,683 Location: Crozet, Virginia		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Another possibility for zinc die-cast body could have been a too much widened window. This may happen while the body is not correctly deburred and polished. The window frame is too widened, but then the windscreen does also not retain in the window frame. This is a serious quality problem. The corpus is not usable and has to return for melting down again. I saw several videos on Märklin TV about manufacturing this model and they clearly used CNC (computer numerically controlled) milling machines to finish the openings in the body, so each and every one should have exactly the same dimensions, within a quite small tolerance. Or maybe that was just for the video and customer models are actually made by two drunk guys with a backyard forge. I think the problem is probably in the making of the plastic window inserts which seem to have a lot of tolerance from one to the next - or possibly from one batch to the next. We all want the lowest price for our models and this component probably went the low bidder, as often happens. Some windscreens fit well while others have terrible gaps and the same applies to the side windows. I am pretty sure that I can see light leaking between that window insert and the body in the image Alberto posted. I guess if nothing else, this gives us a good insight into what kind of quality is acceptable for Märklin today. I go back and forth between being disappointed with their products and then just being glad that my favorite train makers is still in business in today's market.
		Regards, Jim I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains! So many trains and so little time.
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Bigdaddynz		#149 Posted : 25 August 2017 01:34:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,663 Location: New Zealand		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Sometime I lost the windscreen and do not know the reason. I read in a German community that such a lost is quite common for this model Yes it is quite common. The window of my 3353 BR103 fell out for no reason, and I didn't discover this for some time. I never found the window, so got some replacements through the Lokshop. I used some Humbrol model glue to put them in - not too much otherwise the window might get stained. Haven't had a problem with it since, nor has the friend I sold the loco to. The 3053 you see in #139 also had a window fall out not long after I got it. I used the same method to put it back in - the photos are after the window was glued back in.
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dickinsonj		#150 Posted : 25 August 2017 01:47:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,683 Location: Crozet, Virginia		Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Sometime I lost the windscreen and do not know the reason. I read in a German community that such a lost is quite common for this model Yes it is quite common. Well, I guess it is good to know that we are on familiar territory with window fit for Märklin. I have been lucky because I have never run into this problem myself. In Märklin's defense these are low volume items and closer to hand made than most products sold today. So greater tolerances can be expected, but I just hope not on mine.
		Regards, Jim I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains! So many trains and so little time.
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