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Offline Hackcell  
#1 Posted : 09 September 2016 22:11:17(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
I have a 37995 loco with the 2 smoke generators. Both work great with the OEM decoder, nevertheless, I can't make it work with an ESU M4 decoder, despite I activate AUX3 or AUX4.

Does anybody know what's the AUX output used by the OEM decoder?

Thanks!
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 10 September 2016 21:27:06(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
I have a 37995 loco with the 2 smoke generators. Both work great with the OEM decoder, nevertheless, I can't make it work with an ESU M4 decoder, despite I activate AUX3 or AUX4.

Does anybody know what's the AUX output used by the OEM decoder?

Thanks!


This sounds like you need the so called 'amplifier' on aux 3 or 4, whichever one you are using, if it does not haave them on the motherboard.

But why are you changing it if it works fine with the OEM decoder?

Offline Hackcell  
#3 Posted : 10 September 2016 21:32:58(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
I have a 37995 loco with the 2 smoke generators. Both work great with the OEM decoder, nevertheless, I can't make it work with an ESU M4 decoder, despite I activate AUX3 or AUX4.

Does anybody know what's the AUX output used by the OEM decoder?

Thanks!


This sounds like you need the so called 'amplifier' on aux 3 or 4, whichever one you are using, if it does not haave them on the motherboard.

But why are you changing it if it works fine with the OEM decoder?



Honest answer? I HATE the fact that M OEM decoders are locked.
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline Dave Banks  
#4 Posted : 11 September 2016 00:26:52(UTC)
Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,026
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Can you please let us know exactly which ESU m4 decoder you are using please?

Below is my Big boy with ESU V3.5 sound decoder & a relay which was used to control the twin smoke generators due to the excessive power draw that two Seuthe No.11's would have on that particular decoder

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage
D.A.Banks
Offline Hackcell  
#5 Posted : 11 September 2016 00:34:06(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
MTC21 v4 m4 decoder. Just removed the OEM one and connect it to the board of the 37995.
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline Dave Banks  
#6 Posted : 11 September 2016 00:46:09(UTC)
Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,026
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
So you would be using this model?

http://www.esu.eu/en/products/loksound/loksound-v40-m4/

Do you have an ESU Lok programmer?

This decoder has many settings & overload protection built in.
D.A.Banks
Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 11 September 2016 07:47:03(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi!

Anybody with a CS2 and a 37995 can check what F1 does with the original decoder.
This could be AUX3 or 4, this could be AUX1 or 2. This could even be a "sound" (function controlled via SUSI).

I don't have a 37995 and cannot help.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Hackcell  
#8 Posted : 11 September 2016 07:52:02(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!

Anybody with a CS2 and a 37995 can check what F1 does with the original decoder.
This could be AUX3 or 4, this could be AUX1 or 2. This could even be a "sound" (function controlled via SUSI).

I don't have a 37995 and cannot help.


Aux1 headlight.
Aux2 cabin light.
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline Hackcell  
#9 Posted : 11 September 2016 07:54:00(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by: DaveB Go to Quoted Post
So you would be using this model?

http://www.esu.eu/en/products/loksound/loksound-v40-m4/

Do you have an ESU Lok programmer?

This decoder has many settings & overload protection built in.


I've tried changing the aux3 and aux4 settings using my lokprogrammer and nothing.
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline H0  
#10 Posted : 11 September 2016 08:24:13(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
Aux1 headlight.
Aux2 cabin light.
The question was: what does F1 do in the original decoder?

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Hackcell  
#11 Posted : 11 September 2016 08:49:32(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
Aux1 headlight.
Aux2 cabin light.
The question was: what does F1 do in the original decoder?



Marquee + smoke generator
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 11 September 2016 09:20:51(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
Aux1 headlight.
Aux2 cabin light.
The question was: what does F1 do in the original decoder?
Marquee + smoke generator
AUX3? AUX4? Sound x?

Another interesting question? Are AUX3 and AUX4 amplified on the original decoder?
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Dave Banks  
#13 Posted : 12 September 2016 01:16:00(UTC)
Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,026
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Have a read of this subject / thread already discussed admittedly for a diesel loco but info still relevant:

https://www.marklin-users.net/fo...l-the-flow-of-smoke-unit


D.A.Banks
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Dave Banks
Offline Hackcell  
#14 Posted : 12 September 2016 18:43:31(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by: DaveB Go to Quoted Post
Have a read of this subject / thread already discussed admittedly for a diesel loco but info still relevant:

https://www.marklin-users.net/fo...l-the-flow-of-smoke-unit




Thanks! I'll give a try following this info.
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline river6109  
#15 Posted : 13 September 2016 12:30:00(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Danilo, there are several issues one has to know. did you set up the sound decoder yourself or was it already programmed by ESU, e.g. functions and Aux. I've just looked at the sound profile and I can see you've changed the settings.

program your decoder as follows:

1.) use Aux 1 for the smoke unit and not Aux 3. you've set the smoke unit under Smoke unit controlled by sound, remove it and replace it with Seuthe smoke unit
2.) under mapping: under logical functions, remove ESU smoke unit
Heat while loco is standing heat control 31, Minimum heat while loco is driving : 31, Maximum heat while loco is driving: 31
minimum and maximum can be later adjusted if needed (lower temperature).

3.) go into sound slots and untick the box: play only if sound is enabled.

4.) What is marquee ? move marquee to Aux 3, leave Cabina under Aux 2.

5.) there is an other abnormality with the Aux 3 function under F 14, you've got also the Acceleration and switching mode on the same F 14, remove acceleration and switching mode to 2 separate Functions
5.) I've noticed you've got 1 sound slot not active: sound slot 14 = oil burner,

the smoke units should work when you program the decoder to the above settings.

do you have an ECoS or CS ?


regards.,

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline biedmatt  
#16 Posted : 13 September 2016 14:12:00(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
First you need to determine what functions or devices the aux outputs are connected. An ESU decoder tester is the best way and a wise investment if you plan to do more of these conversions. It was a humongous time saver for the 100+ lok I changed to ESU V4s.

Secondly, you need to find out how aux 3 and 4 worked on the M decoder. Alan and Tom hit upon this when they said you may need the Alan: "amplifier" and Tom: "Logic level" outputs. Marklin created a standard for the MTC21 and then promptly discarded their standard. They make decoders where aux 3 and 4 are just logic level (aprox. -5VDC) and line level (aprox. -12VDC). my guess is the Big Boy decoder has line level outputs so it can directly power the LED and/or smoke units. The ESU aux 3 and 4 outputs are strictly logic level. Negative 5VDC isn't going to operate much. ESU has not and probably never will make a decoder with aux 3 and 4 at line level. What to do?

You need the "amplifier" Alan spoke of and I linked in the prior PM.

UserPostedImage

This is a picture of one I installed in a 39100. You can see it on the left side of the picture. The inputs are across the bottom. Black goes to decoder negative and blue to decoder positive. Normally I find this power at the MTC21 connector. But with this lok I found solder pads above the MTC21 connector. These solder pads are easier to solder than at the connector. The green and purple across the bottom of the "amplifier" are soldered to the aux 3 and 4 outputs of the decoder at the MTC21 connector. This logic level output from the ESU decoder will turn on and off the amplifier transistors. The green and purple across the top of the "amplifier" are negative 12VDC outputs that will power the smoke or LEDs of the lok. You need to open the foils between the MTC21 connector and the device operated by the decoder. Otherwise the amplifier output and the decoder outputs will be commoned together. Very bad. This I do at the motherboard. You can cut the foil with an Exacto or a Dremel cut off wheel. Or drill out a cross connector on the motherboard where the circuit crosses from one side to the other. I did this at the purple wire at the top right of the picture. The outputs of the "amplifier" are connected on the far or device side of the open you make in the motheboard's foil. Now the logic level (-5VDC) output of the ESU decoder will turn on the transistor which is nothing more than a micro relay, and switch negative 12VDC to the smoker or LEDs.

This change allows the ESU decoder to function as the M decoder did and leaves the original motherboard so you do not have to completely rewire the lok as you would need with ESU's adapter board.

http://store.sbs4dcc.com...ctionAmplifierBoard.aspx

Edited by user 13 September 2016 22:01:22(UTC)  | Reason: Corrected 0.5V to 5V. Thanks Tom, not sure where my head was when I wrote that. Probably thinking

Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline H0  
#17 Posted : 13 September 2016 14:25:46(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
5.) I've noticed you've got 1 sound slot not active: sound slot 14 = oil burner,
Who needs the oil burner sound for a coal-fired loco?
It's like activating the Northlander bell sound on an SBB RAm.


Logic level outputs are around 5 V when activated (TTL). The permitted load is typically 2 mA.
Amplified outputs are GND when activated (open collector). The permitted load is typically 100 mA or 250 mA.
The wrong type of decoder can lead to damage of the loco or the decoder.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Hackcell  
#18 Posted : 13 September 2016 19:11:08(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Hi there,

So far it seems the problem is AUX3 is not giving me enough voltage to heat the smoke unit (checking the manual both are logic functions). I'll test rewiring AUX2 (marquee {the numbers at the front}) just to confirm this theory. If that's the case, I'll try with an amplifier.

If this works, I'll get a MTH smoke unit, using AUX3 to generate the smoke and AUX4 to activate the motor and have more realistic chuffs.
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Hackcell
Offline river6109  
#19 Posted : 14 September 2016 04:34:25(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
5.) I've noticed you've got 1 sound slot not active: sound slot 14 = oil burner,
Who needs the oil burner sound for a coal-fired loco?
It's like activating the Northlander bell sound on an SBB RAm.


Logic level outputs are around 5 V when activated (TTL). The permitted load is typically 2 mA.
Amplified outputs are GND when activated (open collector). The permitted load is typically 100 mA or 250 mA.
The wrong type of decoder can lead to damage of the loco or the decoder.


Tom, it was late at night so my brain didn't pick this up, although this sound slot was part of the big boy

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline river6109  
#20 Posted : 14 September 2016 04:39:21(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
Hi there,

So far it seems the problem is AUX3 is not giving me enough voltage to heat the smoke unit (checking the manual both are logic functions). I'll test rewiring AUX2 (marquee {the numbers at the front}) just to confirm this theory. If that's the case, I'll try with an amplifier.

If this works, I'll get a MTH smoke unit, using AUX3 to generate the smoke and AUX4 to activate the motor and have more realistic chuffs.


if you are not following advice we'll be sitting here until Christmas, your setup with Aux 3 is completely wrong, so going down that path with your configuration will get you no where.

your loksound profile setting is under F 14 = Aux 3 = ESU smoke unit, have you installed an ESU smoke unit ? if not remove it

Why changing the output to firebox ? it has nothing to do with the firebox, it is a smoke generator and there are 3 settings: 1.) Seuthe smoke unit, 2.) Smoke unit controlled by sound and 3.) ESU smoke unit which is a complete different set up.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Hackcell  
#21 Posted : 14 September 2016 06:15:46(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
Hi there,

So far it seems the problem is AUX3 is not giving me enough voltage to heat the smoke unit (checking the manual both are logic functions). I'll test rewiring AUX2 (marquee {the numbers at the front}) just to confirm this theory. If that's the case, I'll try with an amplifier.

If this works, I'll get a MTH smoke unit, using AUX3 to generate the smoke and AUX4 to activate the motor and have more realistic chuffs.


if you are not following advice we'll be sitting here until Christmas, your setup with Aux 3 is completely wrong, so going down that path with your configuration will get you no where.

your loksound profile setting is under F 14 = Aux 3 = ESU smoke unit, have you installed an ESU smoke unit ? if not remove it

Why changing the output to firebox ? it has nothing to do with the firebox, it is a smoke generator and there are 3 settings: 1.) Seuthe smoke unit, 2.) Smoke unit controlled by sound and 3.) ESU smoke unit which is a complete different set up.

John



Tried as dimmer and changed the CVs to output the maximum voltage possible, the amount of smoke was a joke. Checked voltage output: 0.5VDC; I don't think there is enough voltage. Checking the esu manual aux3 and aux4 both are logical functions, not physical.

Applied the same settings to aux1 and it worked, actually it generated a LOT of smoke, even using the output as firebox; aux1 is physical.
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline H0  
#22 Posted : 14 September 2016 07:07:22(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
For the records: AUX3 and AUX4 are physical outputs, but they are TTL-level outputs. AUX1 and AUX2 are also physical outputs, but with open collector.
"Shunting mode" is a logical function.

It's no surprise that you cannot operate a smoke generator from a TTL-level output.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline river6109  
#23 Posted : 14 September 2016 07:28:10(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
Hi there,

So far it seems the problem is AUX3 is not giving me enough voltage to heat the smoke unit (checking the manual both are logic functions). I'll test rewiring AUX2 (marquee {the numbers at the front}) just to confirm this theory. If that's the case, I'll try with an amplifier.

If this works, I'll get a MTH smoke unit, using AUX3 to generate the smoke and AUX4 to activate the motor and have more realistic chuffs.


if you are not following advice we'll be sitting here until Christmas, your setup with Aux 3 is completely wrong, so going down that path with your configuration will get you no where.

your loksound profile setting is under F 14 = Aux 3 = ESU smoke unit, have you installed an ESU smoke unit ? if not remove it

Why changing the output to firebox ? it has nothing to do with the firebox, it is a smoke generator and there are 3 settings: 1.) Seuthe smoke unit, 2.) Smoke unit controlled by sound and 3.) ESU smoke unit which is a complete different set up.

John



Tried as dimmer and changed the CVs to output the maximum voltage possible, the amount of smoke was a joke. Checked voltage output: 0.5VDC; I don't think there is enough voltage. Checking the esu manual aux3 and aux4 both are logical functions, not physical.

Applied the same settings to aux1 and it worked, actually it generated a LOT of smoke, even using the output as firebox; aux1 is physical.



if you would follow my suggestions you shouldn't have any problems. you've got a lokprogrammer, follow the suggestions, why would you select a firebox and not the Seuthe smoke generator, why would you want to dimmer, you are going into places which has nothing to do with selecting the right information into the deocder.

with a Lokprogrammer you don't have to change any CV's you just click or unclick boxes or change the value whether it is the voltage, smoke generator voltage (as per my suggestion).

when you finished doing this I can help you further to fine tune the smoke generator.

why are you checking the manual for Aux 3 and Aux 4 functions, you need to apply the smoke generator to Aux 1, select Seuthe smokegerator (as per instruction I've given you before.

It always amazes me here we are at a forum and members trying to help like myself and the person making the inquiries goes off to play golf or has his own ideas and than for some strange reason applies them.

I've been advised by Dave you've got a lok programmer, is this correct ?

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Hackcell  
#24 Posted : 14 September 2016 18:00:49(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post


if you would follow my suggestions you shouldn't have any problems. you've got a lokprogrammer, follow the suggestions, why would you select a firebox and not the Seuthe smoke generator, why would you want to dimmer, you are going into places which has nothing to do with selecting the right information into the deocder.

with a Lokprogrammer you don't have to change any CV's you just click or unclick boxes or change the value whether it is the voltage, smoke generator voltage (as per my suggestion).

when you finished doing this I can help you further to fine tune the smoke generator.

why are you checking the manual for Aux 3 and Aux 4 functions, you need to apply the smoke generator to Aux 1, select Seuthe smokegerator (as per instruction I've given you before.

It always amazes me here we are at a forum and members trying to help like myself and the person making the inquiries goes off to play golf or has his own ideas and than for some strange reason applies them.

I've been advised by Dave you've got a lok programmer, is this correct ?

John


I already tried with the lokprogrammer and it does not work. As long as I use AUX3 it doesn't. AUX 1 is already wired to be used with the marquee (marquee is the light where the loco numbers are located)

Top contact marquee(aux1), middle contact common, bottom contact, cabin (aux2).

The aux3 is not even on that board, it's a small wire that goes under it.

When I applied the same settings I have in AUX3 to AUX1 and run a wire from autx1 to the smoke detector and it generates smoke.

There is something funky between AUX3 and the output itself, this small IC (upper right).

Edited by user 14 September 2016 23:13:26(UTC)  | Reason: Because I felt like it.

Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline Dave Banks  
#25 Posted : 14 September 2016 23:20:46(UTC)
Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,026
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post


if you would follow my suggestions you shouldn't have any problems. you've got a lokprogrammer, follow the suggestions, why would you select a firebox and not the Seuthe smoke generator, why would you want to dimmer, you are going into places which has nothing to do with selecting the right information into the deocder.

with a Lokprogrammer you don't have to change any CV's you just click or unclick boxes or change the value whether it is the voltage, smoke generator voltage (as per my suggestion).

when you finished doing this I can help you further to fine tune the smoke generator.

why are you checking the manual for Aux 3 and Aux 4 functions, you need to apply the smoke generator to Aux 1, select Seuthe smokegerator (as per instruction I've given you before.

It always amazes me here we are at a forum and members trying to help like myself and the person making the inquiries goes off to play golf or has his own ideas and than for some strange reason applies them.

I've been advised by Dave you've got a lok programmer, is this correct ?

John


I already tried with the lokprogrammer and it does not work. As long as I use AUX3 it doesn't. AUX 1 is already wired to be used with the marquee (marquee is the light where the loco numbers are located)

Top contact marquee(aux1), middle contact common, bottom contact, cabin (aux2).

The aux3 is not even on that board, it's a small wire that goes under it.

When I applied the same settings I have in AUX3 to AUX1 and run a wire from autx1 to the smoke detector and it generates smoke.

There is something funky between AUX3 and the output itself, this small IC (upper right).


D.A.Banks
Offline Dave Banks  
#26 Posted : 14 September 2016 23:23:46(UTC)
Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,026
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Hi Danilo, Your new Big Boy ESU v4.0 M4 profile has been emailed to you. This has been carefully prepared by John in Western Australia. Save this one as a template for future reference. Please let us know the results.
D.A.Banks
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Dave Banks
Offline Hackcell  
#27 Posted : 14 September 2016 23:55:21(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by: DaveB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Danilo, Your new Big Boy ESU v4.0 M4 profile has been emailed to you. This has been carefully prepared by John in Western Australia. Save this one as a template for future reference. Please let us know the results.


Hi Dave,

Thanks! I'll give a shot later today.

Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline Hackcell  
#28 Posted : 15 September 2016 06:47:28(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Hi Dave,

Same outcome; however, I found something. The smoke generator closes the circuit using the loco chassis as ground. This is the reading on my voltimeter.



As I mentioned before, the front pcb has a ground point, which shares continuity with the MTC21 pin 5 (common).
If I measure the voltage between the AUX3 and this common pin I get this:



Way much voltage than using the chassis ground.
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline H0  
#29 Posted : 15 September 2016 07:56:02(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
Way much voltage than using the chassis ground.
You do not get meaningful readings with a cheap volt meter (a True RMS meter is needed).

Seuthe #10 is correct for chassis connection, #11 for "blue wire" connection - because the effective voltage is much higher in the latter case.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline river6109  
#30 Posted : 15 September 2016 11:53:43(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Danilo,

find the Aux 1 wire, disconnect it from the Marquee and solder it onto the solder pads for both smoke generators, the brown wire goes to ground, disconnect the Aux 3 wire from the smoke generator solder pad and solder it onto the marquee light circuit, you will find this should work than. keeping the same profile Dave sent you (loco programmer) when you got it working I will guide you to the right voltage setting for the smoke generators.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Hackcell  
#31 Posted : 15 September 2016 17:34:25(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Danilo,

find the Aux 1 wire, disconnect it from the Marquee and solder it onto the solder pads for both smoke generators, the brown wire goes to ground, disconnect the Aux 3 wire from the smoke generator solder pad and solder it onto the marquee light circuit, you will find this should work than. keeping the same profile Dave sent you (loco programmer) when you got it working I will guide you to the right voltage setting for the smoke generators.

John


This smoke unit (Mä 7226) doesn't have any wires (uses the boiler as ground and a pin at the bottom to close the circuit). What I did was to run a wire around the somke unit and connect it to the common pad, then solder a wire to the bottom pin and conect it to AUX1; got smoke. Then tried with AUX3, got smoke.

I checked the voltage settings on Dave's profile and applied them to both outputs. As long as I used the boiler as ground there is no smoke, max 7 volts.

At this point I'm 99% sure grounding is the problem, using theboiler ground generates low voltage, not enough to heat the unit. I've just ordered two seuthe 100E generators and we'll see how it goes.
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline Dave Banks  
#32 Posted : 15 September 2016 20:50:13(UTC)
Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,026
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Danilo try with just one #7226 first & take if possible a wire & touch top of the outer rim of #7226 & outer rail of your "c-Track" & see if that earthing method works & that will confirm you have a body / grounding issue.

D.A.Banks
Offline mihirpadhye  
#33 Posted : 30 December 2016 19:49:16(UTC)
mihirpadhye

India   
Joined: 01/02/2014(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: Pune
Hi Danilo,

Any update on this topic? Did it finally work?

Regards
Mihir
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