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Offline jvuye  
#101 Posted : 08 March 2014 12:07:25(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,622
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
....
But it is all a matter of practice and also sharing ideas with other hobbyists...
Next installment will be forthcoming (when I figure it out BigGrin Blink )...stay tuned!
....


After loosing sleep over this Blink Wink for a couple of nights, here's the thing I plan to build in the next few weeks (after I procure the material)

There are bacically three footprints for (original) Märklin motor shields : DCM , SFCM and LFCM. For the LFCM there are two types of covers, depending on chassis (e.g. 3047) or bogie type (e.g. 3022)

This thus means I can cover all types of brush holder covers by creating a mounting jig (a flat steel plate with holes drilled with the corresponding patterns) for my milling machine table, with threaded holes where mounting screws are located, and mounting holes to install locating pins where they shold be.

There will be a indexing hole exactly where the motor axles should be so the jig can be perfectly lined up with the milling machine spindle.
This would then allow very accurate drilling of the 3.9 mm hole needed to install the 4mm bearingThumpUp

The key then is also to have these holes **go through the plate** so their "mirror image" is available on the other side.

Why do I want this mirror image to be accessible?Confused

So that with proper mounting spacers in the right places, I will also be able to mount the **chassis** on the same manner and machine the other hole for the bearing!! (4mm in DCM cases, 5 mm in SFCM and LFCl type 1 and 2 cases)

Any additional suggestion?

After I test this we'll see if it would be feasible to provide our colleagues here with this service: you send me the parts, I drill them and install the bearings for a nominal fee.

What do you think?
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline mbarreto  
#102 Posted : 08 March 2014 12:27:53(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 839
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post

....
After I test this we'll see if it would be feasible to provide our colleagues here with this service: you send me the parts, I drill them and install the bearings for a nominal fee.

What do you think?


If I understand the all process, I think for the service to be complete you could also apply the glue to the brush holders and make them fixed in place :)

It is an interesting proposal for those that don't want or can't do the job for themselves.
Mostly Märklin H0.


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Offline Janne75  
#103 Posted : 08 March 2014 12:45:28(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,572
Location: Finland
Hi Jacques,

This is then very professional way to do this Cool . I want to try first this ball bearing installing to DCM motors myself, but maybe I can be one of your future customers. Is there recommended type of bearings, shielded or open ball bearings? What about the ABEC ratings? Is ABEC 3 good enough as the cheapest 1.5x4x2 mm ball bearings are ABEC 3. There is ABEC 5, 7 and 9 available. The larger number has something to do with bearing clearances being smaller, so in theory and also in practice the ABEC 9 should be best. Ceramic ball bearings (actually hybrid bearings as only the balls are normally ceramic) have some advantages, but the price is definitely not one of them....

I have not found ball bearings from Finland with such a cheap price, so there are three options: To send parts to you, order cheap ABEC 3 ball bearings from China? or buy a smaller amount of higher quality bearings (ABEC 7 or 9 or even ceramic ball bearings) and install them to some locos first and see how good they really are. The difference should be seen and heard + I can also see the current draw difference from my CS 2 like Francisco did. Even with the I believe ABEC 3? bearings the difference in the current consumption at 50% speed was remarkable!

Regards,
Janne

Edited by user 11 March 2014 14:23:37(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline river6109  
#104 Posted : 08 March 2014 13:04:05(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,410
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Janne,

I haven't explored going down the path with ceramic ball bearings and the expense I wonder whether its worth it., the motor construction itself isn't the latest technology and heaving gears made by a stamping machine isn't very accurate, so a lot of friction is within the gears. the rotor, mainly on the motor shield side going from metal to plastic isn't the best option and on the other end not using the right oil or leaving the loco for long period idle there is the possibility of ceasing up.

I've tried a couple locos e.g. BR 103 and I was lucky I didn't ruin the whole motor block and I've used 6mm bearings. so I quickly stopped continuing with this idea.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline jvuye  
#105 Posted : 08 March 2014 13:27:53(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,622
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jacques,

This is then very professional way to do this Cool . I want to try first this ball bearing installing to DCM motors myself, but maybe I can be one of your future customers. Is there recommended type of bearings, shielded or open ball bearings? What about the ABEC ratings? Is ABEC 3 good enough as the cheapest 1.5x4x2 mm ball bearings are ABEC 3. There is ABEC 5, 7 and 9 available. The larger number has something to do with bearing clearances being smaller, so in theory and also in practice the ABEC 9 should be best. Ceramic ball bearings (actually hybrid bearings as only the balls are normally ceramic) have some advantages, but the price is definitely not one of them....

I have not found ball bearings from Finland with such a cheap price, so there are three options: To send parts to you, order cheap ABEC 3 ball bearings from China? or buy a smaller amount of higher quality bearings (ABEC 7 or 9 or even ceramic ball bearings) and install them to some locos first and see how good they really are. The difference should be seen and heard + I can also see the current draw difference from my CS 2 like Francisco did. Even with the I believe ABEC 3? bearings he difference in the current consumption at 50% speed was remarkable!

Regards,
Janne



Hello Janne
The bearing I buy from a local distributor here in France are of the shielded type and cost me 6.2 € / piece (if I buy 10 pieces at the time)

To John
To install bearing in the **original** round-brushes shields, I will experiment with a varition of the ball bearing, which can be obtained with a **shoulder** on the outer ring.
That shoulder can be seated properly after proper milling of the brush cover.
That's theory of course, but I have ordered a couple of these bearing and will do some experiments Confused ...as soon as my jig is readyBigGrin
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline biedmatt  
#106 Posted : 08 March 2014 13:32:41(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Don't overthink it boys. A 40 cent Chinese bearing is way better than Marklin's original. If a bearing fails, well it's only 40 cents to replace it.

Looking forward to seeing Jacques' fixtures for the flat comms.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline jvuye  
#107 Posted : 08 March 2014 13:39:47(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,622
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
Don't overthink it boys. A 40 cent Chinese bearing is way better than Marklin's original. If a bearing fails, well it's only 40 cents to replace it.

Looking forward to seeing Jacques' fixtures for the flat comms.


Hi Matt

The fixture itself is the same wether for drum or flat commutator...(same "footprint" in fact) but the mounting screws and spacers will be specific and of course the operation itself will be differentWink
I am in the process of making a drawing of the jig, so you'll all see what I am talking about.

And if you can provide me with a source for the 40 cents bearings, I'll be very grateful.Wink

Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline biedmatt  
#108 Posted : 08 March 2014 13:53:25(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
http://www.ebay.com/itm/290822430399

The presentation of cost and quantity is a bit peculiar, but if you click "buy it now", it gives the option of quantity desired and the quantity discount price. I bought 50 for 54 cents each (faulty memory). The shipping is free. I also bought twenty 2 x 5 x 2.5mm bearings from the same seller. I think they also offer flanged bearings.

Edit: Shielded bearings, I felt it a necessity to keep the brush dirt out.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline Janne75  
#109 Posted : 08 March 2014 13:59:40(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,572
Location: Finland
Yes, where to buy those cheap Chinese ball bearings? Are they shielded or open type?

Edit: Answer is in the post above RollEyes ThumpUp .

Edit 2: 100 pcs. shipped free to EU cost only 33 euro, so 0.33 euro per ball bearing. So there is a huge difference in prices... Jacques wrote 6,2 euro per ball bearing, so it would have cost 620 euro for 100 pcs. Scared almost 20 times more price! I think that I could have maybe 50 locos with DCM motor, so this 100 pcs. order is ok and if all don't go to my locos I have some spare ones then Wink .

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline jvuye  
#110 Posted : 08 March 2014 14:00:36(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,622
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
..
I am in the process of making a drawing of the jig, so you'll all see what I am talking about.
...


here it is..

jvuye attached the following image(s):
Mä DCM drilling jig0001.jpg
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline franciscohg  
#111 Posted : 08 March 2014 14:38:13(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,128
Location: Patagonia
HI, my source for ball-bearings:

www.hobbyking.com 1.4 USD the bag of 4, quickly shipped from Fiji.

If they are good for RC helicopters, should be no problem with train engines, i think.
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Offline jvuye  
#112 Posted : 08 March 2014 15:10:57(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,622
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
http://www.ebay.com/itm/290822430399

The presentation of cost and quantity is a bit peculiar, but if you click "buy it now", it gives the option of quantity desired and the quantity discount price. I bought 50 for 54 cents each (faulty memory). The shipping is free. I also bought twenty 2 x 5 x 2.5mm bearings from the same seller. I think they also offer flanged bearings.

Edit: Shielded bearings, I felt it a necessity to keep the brush dirt out.


Thanks a million.
That's the way.
Luckily, I only ordered 5 pieces from the other place.Glare

Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline biedmatt  
#113 Posted : 08 March 2014 15:55:04(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
I must have bought 100 bearings. I have 52 left and 22 bushings removed from lokos. I did not toss the bushings from the first few lokos I did into a jar. So my memory is still fault, but it was quantity and not cost I remembered wrong.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline Hackcell  
#114 Posted : 10 March 2014 00:02:12(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 520
Originally Posted by: franciscohg Go to Quoted Post
And now, it is ready, i have used two T18 for testing purposes. i have done the drilling by hand at end. One of the things that takes my attention in the firts place was how freely the rotor spins with the ball bearings, meaning to me much less resistance and perhaps less power comsuption. Checked with the information in the CS2 and it seems to be a little less indeed.
I have made a little video showing both engines running



I am happy with the inmediate results, and if you think that the loco will never be opened again for oiling, it is better


Barbaro!! Como que vale la pena el upgrade antes que las máquinas empiecen a fallar :-)

Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
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Offline river6109  
#115 Posted : 10 March 2014 01:06:11(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,410
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Barbaro!! Como que vale la pena el upgrade antes que las máquinas empiecen a fallar :-)

Barbaro! As it is well worth the upgrade before the machines start to fail :-)
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Janne75  
#116 Posted : 11 March 2014 16:11:45(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,572
Location: Finland
Hi all,

I just planned how many ball bearings I really need and below is a list of my locomotives which I know or believe have DCM 3-pole or 5-pole motors. Please correct me if you know for sure that some of them are SFCM or LFCM motored. It seems like I need more bearings than 100 if i want to do this good modification for all of these. If all are DCM motors, then I need around 120 ball bearings!! Scared

Steam locomotives

• 37961, 37963 and 37967 BR 96 / Gt 2 x 4/4 (3 locos, 6 ball bearings)

• 3309/3709 and 33081 BR 85 (2 locos, 4 ball bearings)

• 2953x Digital and 37862-01 BR 86 (2 locos, 4 ball bearings)

• 29820 and 37953 BR 03 (2 locos, 4 ball bearings)

• 3084 DB, 3414 SNCF, 3416 ÖBB, 3417 NSB, 34157 SNCF, 34158 CFL, 37560 CFL BR 50 or BR 52 based locos (7 locos, 14 ball bearings)

• 3702 BR 53 (1 loco, 2 ball bearings)

• 3317, 3318/3618?, 29855, 29855, 29855, 29855, 33181, 33183, 37182, 37184, 37185 and 37186 S 3/6 or BR 18.4 type locos (12 locos, 24 ball bearings)

• 3313 DB, 3412 K.Wurt.St.E. and 3413 SNCF, 37131 SBB (4 locos, 8 ball bearings)

• 37884 BR 44 (1 loco, 2 ball bearings)

• 3107 SNCF, 3117 SNCF (2 locos, 4 ball bearings)


Electric locomotives:

• 3039/29855 DB BR 110, 29855 DB E40 and 3740 DB BR 110 (3 locos, 6 ball bearings)

• 29151 DB BR 151 (1 loco, 2 ball bearings)

• 3038 SNCF and 3165 SNCF (2 locos, 4 ball bearings)

• 3166 ÖBB and 29680 SBB Ae 6/6 (2 locos, 4 ball bearings)

• 3367/3767 DB BR 118 (1 loco, 2 ball bearings)

• 3756.1 and 3756.2 SBB green Ce 6/8III Crocodiles (2 locos, 4 ball bearings)

• 4 DRG electric locos 37561 E60, 37661 E52, 37681 E18, 37196 E91.1 (4 locos, 8 ball bearings)

• 3157 DB BR 160 and 37060 K.Bay.Sts.B. EP 3/6 (2 locos, 4 ball bearings)



Diesel locomotives

• 37650 V60 and digitalised 3028 BR 515 (2 locos, 4 ball bearings). Analog 3028 has not DCM motor.

• 2 BR 216 locos (2 locos, 4 ball bearings) 2 newer Digital from starter sets

• 29811 DB BR 221 (1 loco, 2 ball bearings)

• 3142 FS D236 (1 loco, 2 ball bearings)

Then I need also ball bearings for 3681 DB BR 221 and 37591 SBB Ae 8/14 in the future. I have a 3021 DB V200, 3022 DB E94 and 3134 CFL Nohab all converted to digital with 60904? kit so they need ball bearings too at least on the motor shield side. I just opened my converted 3021 and it has different motor block as the original motor was LFCM. Same in 3022 too, but 3134 has newer "Great Northern" Nohab technic and I think it will need to ball bearings. I will not modify motor blocks at this stage. I will only remove the bushes where there is one and replace them with ball bearings.



Total need of ball bearings = Around 120 !!!!

What I have done so far for this project is I have drilled one motor shield by electric hand drilling machine. It went ok. First I drilled the original 1.5 mm hole to 2.0 mm, but then I just drilled it to 4.0 mm. I tested with that 4.0 mm drill bit other end that it became ok for hole tightness. I managed to drill that hole in the very center without any extra equipments, but it may be only my good luck that time Wink . I will order ball bearings soon. I will also test to some loco(s) ceramic high quality ball bearings to see if there is any difference or not. Maybe I buy 10 of those, so I install them into my Mallet locos 37961, 37963 and 37967 + two Crocodiles 3756.1 and 3756.2.

Cheers,
Janne

Edited by user 12 March 2014 08:19:56(UTC)  | Reason: Edited the loco list to have DCM motored locos only. Ball bearing need 134 => 120

Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline jvuye  
#117 Posted : 11 March 2014 18:04:31(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,622
Location: South Western France
Hello Janne
Good list! Lots of work.
One small suggestion check carefully what the original motor configuration was.
Some locos in your list . (e.g. 3039..) have been delivered in several versions, including also with originally an SFCM (and thus required a 60903 type of conversion kit.

On those one, the bearing on the gear side needs a 2 mm diam opening, I.e 5 mm outside diameter.

Since you have so many, as soon as I have finished my drilling jig, I'll post pictures and drawings so that you can eventually copy the design.
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline Janne75  
#118 Posted : 11 March 2014 18:57:23(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,572
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Hello Janne
Good list! Lots of work.
One small suggestion check carefully what the original motor configuration was.
Some locos in your list . (e.g. 3039..) have been delivered in several versions, including also with originally an SFCM (and thus required a 60903 type of conversion kit.

On those one, the bearing on the gear side needs a 2 mm diam opening, I.e 5 mm outside diameter.

Since you have so many, as soon as I have finished my drilling jig, I'll post pictures and drawings so that you can eventually copy the design.
Cheers


Hi Jacques,

I can have some spare bearings as there will come more DCM motored locos in my collection later. 3681 and 37591 both have DCM motor(s) too so I will probably order 150 Chinese 1.5x4x2 mm ball bearings anyway. There will come soon one that don't need any ball bearing conversions into it's two DCM motors. It have ball bearings factory installed and it is Märklin 37605 VT 11.5.

You are right about 3039 as it can have DCM or SFCM motor. But my 3039 has only body from the original and everything else is from 29855 E40 so it has 5-pole DCM.

It is a good time to clean and service locos when motors are open. Thank you very much in advance for all the help like photos of your drillng jig. I used a very professional quality drilling jig for my test version... I used an empty Coca Cola paper cup (I am not sure about the words?) upside down and drilled the motor shield on it. I just wanted to avoid drilling the floor and it gave me good clearance LOL . I believe your jig is better Wink .

Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Oliver nagel  
#119 Posted : 16 March 2014 15:33:29(UTC)
Oliver nagel

United States   
Joined: 30/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 121
Location: Allegany
I have a link to a for a different view of this subject. http://www.stayathome.ch/kugellager.htm
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Offline Moritz-BR365  
#120 Posted : 03 April 2014 08:49:05(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 652
Hello,
I did this ball bearing modification on several models, too:

My Krokodil 3352
UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

This model is equipped from the former owner with an Esu LokPilot V3.0 M4. After the conversion from 3-pole DCM to 5-pole DCM (with modified permanent magnet, see picture) and the ball bearing conversion, the Krokodil has amazing driving performance! See video:


The next candidate was the Märklin 50-2362 steam engine.
This model is originally equipped with the 5-pole DCM. I only converted the bearing on the gearbox for now. But the driving performance is now really good, too:


Ball bearing for the gear
Here, I had an old BR 141 from Primex. The gears of the gear box were redounded on the shaft. Therefore, I got the idea to add ball bearings to the gears:

UserPostedImage

Left gear with ball bearing, right without:
UserPostedImage

Finally I drilled a 4mm hole into the gear box and mounted there a ball bearing for the anker shaft, too. The same for the motor shield. Now, this motor is equipped with 4 ball bearings!

I use on the 141 an old fx-Decoder from the 37652. In the first drive step (FS1) the 141 runs with 1,89mm/s or 0,59km/h! The current is over the full speed range below 100mA (maesured with MS2).

Video:


Sure, it is still a bit noisy, but the driving performance and slow drive performance is now very good.

3-pole SCM motor shield
What I didn't tried yet is the conversion of the SCM motor shield, because of the 2mm shaft. There You need a 5mm ball bearing. And this may be a little bit too much for the drilling hole.

Drilling
For the drilling of the 4mm drilling hole, I use a center drill. It starts at 2mm and goes up to 4mm. It is a bit easier then drilling step by step, the drilling hole is more accurate and the edges very sharp.

Kind regards,
Moritz
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Offline jvuye  
#121 Posted : 03 April 2014 08:57:15(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,622
Location: South Western France
Excellent write up and pictures Moritz!
A few good ideas too: I ***love** the ideas of
1° adding the bearing in the transmission and
2° the use of a centering drill to prepare the chassis for the bearing!!

Thanks!
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline Janne75  
#122 Posted : 03 April 2014 12:39:07(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,572
Location: Finland
Great work Moritz! ThumpUp

I am still waiting for my ball bearings. I ordered only 100 pcs. first to see how it goes. Maybe they are in Finnish customs now and they wonder what they are? There is much work to convert 50 locos, so I will do them first and then buy more.

Your idea to install ball bearing to transmission is good, but I will not go into that. I just want to have less friction in the motors anchor. I just started to wonder how well could a locomotive run if all gears would be with ball bearings? New type motors don´t have many gears anymore and they run very quiet. Wheels and current pick-up shoes have more noise than motor/gears in those.

I have many noisy locos with DCM that will benefit from ball bearing conversion for sure. It is the slow speed running and starting from stop that will show the best results vs. original DCM motors. There is so much friction between original plastic motor shield and metal axle when it starts moving.

Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Moritz-BR365  
#123 Posted : 03 April 2014 12:55:11(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 652
Hello Janne,

Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post

Your idea to install ball bearing to transmission is good, but I will not go into that. I just want to have less friction in the motors anchor.


The idea with the ball bearings for the transmission gears was born, because I realized, that there is to much lash on these two gears and the shaft. Therefore, I bought two new gears and in parallel, I drilled the old gears to test the ball bearing.

I realized, that the ball bearing for the gears is very effective, but You should have very precise tools to drill the hole absolutely centrical.

Until now, I did not replace the old ball beared gears and the new gears are still unused. But sure, it is only a demonstrator about what is possible. I don't plan to do it again for other models. Except, there is a gear with to much lash again in one model.

Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post

I just started to wonder how well could a locomotive run if all gears would be with ball bearings? New type motors don´t have many gears anymore and they run very quiet. Wheels and current pick-up shoes have more noise than motor/gears in those.


Yes, it is because of the (for Märklin new) design of the gear with screw drive. There, the main gear reduction is done by the silent screw drive. This wasn't possible with the old orientated DCM/SCM motor known from Märklin and Fleischmann.

Moritz

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Offline river6109  
#124 Posted : 04 April 2014 09:22:36(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,410
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Moritz, as mentioned before, always look out for your brush shafts as I can see the one you've shown in the picture, the right hand side is lifted up and this reduces the smoothness as well.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
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Offline Moritz-BR365  
#125 Posted : 04 April 2014 10:37:02(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 652
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Moritz, as mentioned before, always look out for your brush shafts as I can see the one you've shown in the picture, the right hand side is lifted up and this reduces the smoothness as well.

Thanks, John,
I will check this the next time and try Your proposal.

Moritz

Offline Janne75  
#126 Posted : 04 April 2014 10:58:40(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,572
Location: Finland
Yesterday I got my ball bearings. I decided to use my previously already drilled motor shield and install the ball bearings into one cheaper delta digital DB BR 89 006 small steam locomotive. Everything else was easy, except it was VERY difficult to get the other ball bearing installed in the loco frame. Plastic insert was easily removed though. Next time if the bearing fitting is so tight I will just take a 4 mm drill and lightly rotate it by hand (hone) to get it a bit easier installed. I know it has to be tight fit, but definitely no need to be that tight fit.

Results are as good as is possible with delta decoder equipped loco. It runs better and more quietly, but as decoder has so few speed steps it does not give full benefits from the ball bearings. It can be run at quite low speed and no maintenance (lubricating) needed to motor axles anymore ThumpUp . I will do more conversions this weekend.

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline river6109  
#127 Posted : 04 April 2014 11:46:36(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,410
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Janne,

there are some discrepancies regarding the diameter but the secret is if you try to press it on a slight angle it wont work so it has to be completely level with the block, if you press it against a hard flat surface such as a desk top edge you should be able to fit it without problems. the reason I say this if you use any glue such as superglue and it goes any where near the ball bearing itself you can say good by to the ball bearing, so a light but firm press will do the job.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
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5 years in Destruction mode
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Offline river6109  
#128 Posted : 04 April 2014 11:54:25(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,410
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Hi to everyone who has taken part in this topic and I hope they way things are going there will be more joining the team of explorers, risk takers and converters.

a personal touch to improve the motor will give you hours of enjoyment and peace of mind and I don't think our manufacturers will in the near future follow our trend.
So I'm very pleased with all the effort you have put into this and thank you to Moritz to go one step further and also add ball bearings to the cogwheels, another step closer to an even better and hopefully quieter ride.

thank you for your participation

regards.,

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
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Offline Moritz-BR365  
#129 Posted : 04 April 2014 12:03:05(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 652
In some cases, it is difficult to press the ball bearing from the outer side of the gear box. Therefore, I try then to plug in from the inner side, which is easier. There is enough space, it is not necessary to remove the transmission gear to insert the ball bearing.

I also had the issue, that I needed some superglue. But I use superglue gel, then I paste it very carefully on the hole surface and then plug in the ball bearing. The gel doesn't flow into each edge, so it is not so high risk.
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Offline Janne75  
#130 Posted : 04 April 2014 22:53:56(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,572
Location: Finland
Hi all,

I have today installed ball bearings into four locos. Digital (6090) 3702 DRG BR 53, Delta Digital 3416 ÖBB BR 52, Digitalised (6080) 3414 SNCF BR 150 Z and Delta Digital 34157 SNCF BR 150 Y. All locos became less noisy and they start to move with less current. I can see this improvement when I can turn less speed knob from my test unit Märklin 6021 Control Unit before and after this update. Locos also kind of roll longer when running them with high speed and setting speed knob very fast to zero. When I lift up locos driving wheels and turn speed knob to maximum speed setting locos motors also take more revs (or I think so by only listening for the high speed whining sound Cool ).

More ball bearing conversions tomorrow, but I have to find a better solution to drill motor covers to be 100% sure the hole will stay in the middle before moving to more expensive locos. Very small hole alignment errors does not matter, but it is good practice to stay in the center of the original hole.

Maybe I will screw the motor covers to a wood plate to be able to fasten them better to my drilling machine. Digital DCM motor shields are very thin plastic and hard to fasten without any further support. Delta DCM motor shields are thicker and they are easier to drill.

Moritz, it was a good advice to install the tighter fitment frame side ball bearings from inside. I had to do this with 3416 ÖBB. 3414, 3702 and 34157 all were easier and I installed ball bearings from outside.

John, you are right. The bearings have to be installed in level and not in slight angle. I had this problem with the first one (3000 DB BR 89 006 Delta), as I didn't know at that time it could have been installed from inside easier.

When my skills will improve I will install ball bearings to my three Mallet locos Gt 2 x 4/4 and to two of my DCM motor equipped Crocodiles 3756.1 and 3756.2 . RollEyes

I'm so happy that John started this great DCM motor improvement topic and we have now many users on this forum doing these installations. DCM motor is a very strong one and this way it does not have so much friction and noise anymore.

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline Janne75  
#131 Posted : 07 April 2014 21:00:53(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,572
Location: Finland
Yesterday five more of my locos DCM motors were modified for ball bearings.

These are:

3084 DB BR 050 082-7 (now digitalised with 5-pole permanent magnet motor and 60945 mSD set with loudspeaker, but normal non sound mfx decoder installed at the moment)

3309 (3709) Digital DB BR 85 007

37884 Digital DB BR 44 308

3417 Delta Reihe 63 a NSB (ex BR 52) 2770

34158 Delta Serie 56 CFL (ex BR 52) 5609


I'm very happy for the results Smile ThumpUp ...

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline Janne75  
#132 Posted : 08 April 2014 20:50:07(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,572
Location: Finland
List continues with these seven, so total number of ball bearing motored locos is now 17:

3756.1 Digital SBB Ce 6/8 III 14305

3756.2 Digital SBB Be 6/8 III 13305

37560 Digital CFL factory weathered Serie 56 (ex BR 52) 5603

37953 Digital DB BR 03 140

33081 Delta DRG BR 85 001

33961 Digital starter set (29530) DB BR 86 132 only motor shield bearing

37862-1 Digital DB BR 86 234 only motor shield bearing

BR 86 locos don't have a 4 mm outer diameter plastic insert (bush) on their frame so I did not drill the original 1.5 mm hole to 4.0 mm to fit a ball bearing. I just installed one ball bearing in these two on the motor shield side.

All seventeen modified ones are much better now. One of my 3756 Croodiles did not move before modification until CS2 speed setting was around 8% of 100%. Now it moves very slowly at speed setting 1% of 100% and is much more quiet. Gears have their noise of course, but motor is good now ThumpUp .

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline Janne75  
#133 Posted : 13 April 2014 01:45:19(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,572
Location: Finland
Hi,

40 of my DCM motored locomotives have now ball bearings installed Smile . Tomorrow I will install ball bearings to the last 10. Then I don't have more ball bearings left, so I will buy 100 pcs. more to have some spare ones for the future. I can also maybe do these ball bearing conversions for my friends locos, so it is good to have more than the amount needed at the moment RollEyes ...

There are still locomotives waiting for the next ball bearing shipment as there are more than 50 in total to be converted. Märklin 37060 EP 3/6 has not DCM motor so it was a mistake in my list. I put those ball bearings to my sons little steam loco Märklin 3104 DB BR 89.0 instead Wink .

There is so much improvement in many locomotives running smoothness after this modification. I have one BR 18.4 S 3/6 with still noisy motor after the ball bearing conversion. It can be the brushes or motor shield brush holders that cause this noise. I have cleaned the gears and motor in every loco and oiled them before installing the motor back. This is a good way to ensure that they will run well for a long time.

Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline river6109  
#134 Posted : 13 April 2014 02:23:52(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,410
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Janne,

I have to apologize starting this topic and now you you have become a full time ball bearing installer, I think you've earned a marklin-user.net certificate, if there is one. for your achievement BigGrin

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
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Offline Janne75  
#135 Posted : 13 April 2014 08:14:24(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,572
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Janne,

I have to apologize starting this topic and now you you have become a full time ball bearing installer, I think you've earned a marklin-user.net certificate, if there is one. for your achievement BigGrin

John


Hi John,

I have still "other life" than installing ball bearings, believe me or not Wink . We should not ever forget that YOU are still the one who had a dream, that one day every DCM motored Märklin locomotive should be converted with ball bearings... LOL BigGrin Märklin should have used this great idea for all of their DCM motored locos and not some 3760X only.

I am really thankful for you to bring up this great idea for improving these "coffee grinder" motors ThumpUp .

Thank You John!

Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline Janne75  
#136 Posted : 03 May 2014 23:42:30(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,572
Location: Finland
Hi all,

I got another 100 pcs. ball bearings on Friday. I have installed now again some ball bearings to four locos. 29830 DB BR 03 184 was the last DCM motored steam locomotive that was not modified so I did it first. Then two French electric locomotives 3038 digitalised and 3165 analog. Also ÖBB 3166 analog was modified with ball bearings.

I will install tomorrow ball bearings to eight diesel locomotives: Digitalised 3066 SNCB Nohab, digitalised 3134 CFL Nohab (with 37668 Great Northern technic), digitalised 3021 DB V 200 and digitalised 3028 DB BR 515. Only the 3134 needs two ball bearings as the rest of these have only a 2.0 mm hole drilled in their metal motor block, so no ball bearings there...

Then also tomorrow 29820 V 160, 29710 BR 216, 3681 BR 221 and 29811 BR 221. Two ball bearings to each one of them like normal. I have already dismantled all eight locos motors and next I will take off the motor plates and drill the holes from 1.5 mm to 4.0 mm and solder back the wires tomorrow.

So far I have had problems only with two locos. I could not get the body off from 3142 FS Italian small brown diesel. I have not read the instructions and I think I will leave it as it is. It is totally new analog one. Other one is 37196 DRG E 91.9 where I could not get access to other motor shield screw and decided then to put it back together without ball bearings... It would have been great to have them in this one.

I think I have converted almost all my DCM motored locomotives tomorrow. One digitalised 3022 DB E 94 is still to be done, but then only those two above. I will get more DCM motored locomotives in the future and will then use the left over ball bearings.

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Shamu  
#137 Posted : 04 May 2014 03:45:58(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
At least you got yours Janne.

I got 100 of the 1.5x4's and 20 of the 2x5's around the same time as you got your last lot but got this message from them (supplier) Saturday morning;

"Dear Sir,
Thank you for your business. I am sorry that we received a return parcel which is your order yesterday.The Hong Kong Customs reported that this is a dangerous goods (they thought ammo inside), thus, they refused to let the parcel goes. We shipped out it today again and re-write the customs declaration form."
Cursing

Oh well fingers crossed they make it through this time, assuming that the Aussie Customs don't make the same mistake. Confused

Just wondering, did they come all jumbled up or wrapped up in like tubes (which I guess would look like ammo to a x-ray)
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
Offline river6109  
#138 Posted : 04 May 2014 04:31:38(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,410
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Janne wrote: So far I have had problems only with two locos. I could not get the body off from 3142 FS Italian small brown diesel. I have not read the instructions and I think I will leave it as it is. It is totally new analog one. Other one is 37196 DRG E 91.9 where I could not get access to other motor shield screw and decided then to put it back together without ball bearings... It would have been great to have them in this one.

Janne, the FS diesel loco, I bought many years ago and is another version of the V 36 which I never bought. you have to take off a little plate on top of the engine and you will find a screw beneath it. digitizing this one can be a little tricky, the motor fits in fine but the light fitting you may have to alter and there is an after service components for led's to be fitted (circuit board). have to find it and show you some photos.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
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Offline eduard71  
#139 Posted : 04 May 2014 04:34:31(UTC)
eduard71

Venezuela   
Joined: 27/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 224
Location: Caracas
Hi,
I was able to find the bearings using Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/g...00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They reached my address in Houston in about 3 weeks, directly from China and with free shipping.


Best regards

Eduardo
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Offline river6109  
#140 Posted : 04 May 2014 04:34:46(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,410
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Janne,

I have to apologize starting this topic and now you you have become a full time ball bearing installer, I think you've earned a marklin-user.net certificate, if there is one. for your achievement BigGrin

John


Hi John,

I have still "other life" than installing ball bearings, believe me or not Wink . We should not ever forget that YOU are still the one who had a dream, that one day every DCM motored Märklin locomotive should be converted with ball bearings... LOL BigGrin Märklin should have used this great idea for all of their DCM motored locos and not some 3760X only.

I am really thankful for you to bring up this great idea for improving these "coffee grinder" motors ThumpUp .

Thank You John!

Janne


Janne,

you should send some of your locos back to Märklin for repair and they may wake up what a brilliant idea it is but you never know they may make more money out of selling oil than the loco itself, hence no change over all these years BigGrin

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
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Offline river6109  
#141 Posted : 04 May 2014 04:41:43(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,410
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Shamu Go to Quoted Post
At least you got yours Janne.

I got 100 of the 1.5x4's and 20 of the 2x5's around the same time as you got your last lot but got this message from them (supplier) Saturday morning;

"Dear Sir,
Thank you for your business. I am sorry that we received a return parcel which is your order yesterday.The Hong Kong Customs reported that this is a dangerous goods (they thought ammo inside), thus, they refused to let the parcel goes. We shipped out it today again and re-write the customs declaration form."
Cursing

Oh well fingers crossed they make it through this time, assuming that the Aussie Customs don't make the same mistake. Confused

Just wondering, did they come all jumbled up or wrapped up in like tubes (which I guess would look like ammo to a x-ray)


you would think they unwrap the parcel and get a bit embarrassed finding ball bearings in it but again unless you describe the goods properly (model train parts - ball bearing) I can't see them refusing it to let it go through.

Every time I post an item for sale which includes ball bearings, ebay reminds me that some countries including the U.S. are regarding them as dangerous as kids may swallow them and ebay can't tell the difference whether they are loose or being bedded into something.

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
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Offline river6109  
#142 Posted : 04 May 2014 04:54:14(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,410
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post

....
After I test this we'll see if it would be feasible to provide our colleagues here with this service: you send me the parts, I drill them and install the bearings for a nominal fee.

What do you think?


If I understand the all process, I think for the service to be complete you could also apply the glue to the brush holders and make them fixed in place :)

It is an interesting proposal for those that don't want or can't do the job for themselves.


you've made a very valid point.

the brush holder one could say is most the time not in the right position by adding a ball bearing to the brush [plate will alleviate some noise level but the brush holder if not in the correct position can also lead to a noisy motor but also slows down the revolutions and it may cause the loco to run uneven at very slow speeds.
In my opinion it should get the same attention as the ball bearing.
At this stage I have not tinkered with the idea of adding ball bearings to the cogwheels, although I had a quick look at them some of them are too tiny to be able to add a ball bearing unless there are ball bearings smaller than 4mm in diameter but still requiring a 1.5mm inner diameter. there are ball bearings available at 1.5 mm thickness instead of 2 mm and these are most probably suitable for the bigger cogwheels.

All in all I don't think it was ever the best way to go about it but at the time it served these locos over time a reliable function with very little or no trouble at all.
Since Märklin has gone away from cog driven locos and applying lesser gears and therefore quieter and smoother motors (not including some of the decoders suitability) I don't think newer locos would need such a treatment as adding ball bearings.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Moritz-BR365  
#143 Posted : 04 May 2014 14:34:01(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 652
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
At this stage I have not tinkered with the idea of adding ball bearings to the cogwheels, although I had a quick look at them some of them are too tiny to be able to add a ball bearing unless there are ball bearings smaller than 4mm in diameter but still requiring a 1.5mm inner diameter. there are ball bearings available at 1.5 mm thickness instead of 2 mm and these are most probably suitable for the bigger cogwheels.

As You can see here (https://www.marklin-users.net/forum/yaf_postsm452055_there-is-a-way-of-improving-parts--motor-shield.aspx#post452055) I have already tried to mount ball bearings to the gears.

UserPostedImage

And of course, I think it is better with ball bearings. But, if You like to do this, You should be able to work very precise, to drill exactly centrically into the gear.

For me it was a try, if it is possible. Just for fun. But it is too much work to do this for all of my locos.
Offline river6109  
#144 Posted : 04 May 2014 14:47:22(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,410
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Moritz, I think it is worth it but at the moment, time is the factor

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
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Offline Janne75  
#145 Posted : 04 May 2014 16:20:52(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,572
Location: Finland
Hi all,

I have ended to convert my DCM motored locomotives with ball bearings as almost all of them have been done now. When I will get more locomotives, then I will continue.

Here are all of them which I have converted to remind myself too BigGrin :

Steam locomotives:

3000 DB BR 89 Delta
3084 DB BR 050 Digitalised
3104 DB BR 89.0 Analog
3107 SNCF 231 Analog
3117 SNCF 231 Analog
3309/3709 DB BR 85 Digitalised (only one ball bearing)
3313 DB BR 75 Digitalised
3317 SNCF 231A Digitalised
3318/3618 with DB BR 18.4 body Digitalised
3412 K.Würt.St.E. T5 Delta
3413 SNCF 131 TA 3 Delta
3414 SNCF 150 Z Delta
3416 ÖBB BR 52 Delta
3417 NSB Reihe 63a Delta
3702 DRG BR 53 Digital (sold to Harri = Ukko-Pekka)
2953x DB BR 86 Digital
29830 DB BR 03 Digital
29855 DB BR 18.4 Digital
29855 DB BR 18.4 Digital
29855 DRG BR 18.4 body Digital
29855 DRG BR 18.4 body Digital
33081 DRG BR 85 Delta (only one ball bearing)
33181 K.Bay.Sts.B. S 3/6 Delta
33183 "Bayern" K.Bay.Sts.B.? S 3/6 Delta
34157 SNCF 150 Y Delta
34158 CFL Serie 56 Delta
37131 SBB Eb 3/5 "Habersack" Digital
37182 K.Bay.Sts.B. S 3/6 Digital
37184 DRG BR 18.4 Digital
37185 K.Bay.Sts.B. S 3/6 Digital
37186 K.Bay.Sts.B. s 3/6 Digital
37560 CFL Serie 56 Digital
37862-01 DB BR 86 Digital
37884 DB BR 44 Digital
37953 DB BR 03 Digital
37961 K.Bay.Sts.B. Gt 2 x 4/4 Digital
37963 DB BR 96 Digital
37967 K.Bay.Sts.B. Gt 2 x 4/4 Digital

Total 38-1 (sold) = 37 steam locomotives with ball bearings


Electric locomotives:

3022 DB E 94 Digitalised (only one ball bearing)
3038 SNCF BB 9223 Digitalised
3039 / 29855 DB BR 110 Digital
3157 DB BR 160 Digitalised
3165 SNCF BB 9280 Analog
3166 ÖBB BR 1141 Analog
3367/3767 DB BR 118 Digitalised
3740 DB BR 110 Digital
3756.1 SBB Ce 6/8 III "Crocodile" Digital
3756.2 SBB Be 6/8 III "Crocodile" Digital
29151 DB BR 151 Digital
29855 DB BR E 40 Digital
37561 DRG E 60 Digital
37661 DRG E 52 Digital
37681 DRG E 18 Digital
(37196 DRG E 91.9 Digital) not done as I could not dismantle this one Blink

Total 15 electric locomotives converted with ball bearings, one still to do...


Diesel locomotives:

3021 DB V 200 Digitalised (only one ball bearing)
3028 DB BR 515 Digitalised (only one ball bearing)
3066 SNCB 204 "Nohab" Digitalised (only one ball bearing)
3134/37668 CFL "Nohab" Digital
3142 FS BR 236 Analog
3681 DB BR 221 Digital
29710 DB BR 216 Digital
29811 DB BR 221 Digital
29820 DB V 160 Digital
37650 DB V 60 Digital

Total 10 diesel locomotives converted with ball bearings. I have Märklin 37605 DB VT 11.5 also and it's both motors have ball bearings from the factory...

I have to say it took "some hours Wink " to convert all of these. But I'm glad they are now done! ThumpUp I will try 37196 again after some time. I had no extra time to think of it when I was going to convert it so I just put it back together then...

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline RayF  
#146 Posted : 04 May 2014 17:17:53(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,319
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Looks like you've been working very hard, Janne!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Janne75  
#147 Posted : 04 May 2014 21:05:19(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,572
Location: Finland
Yes, it took me many days to do these conversions. Almost all of them got better and less noisy (see I don't want to write more silent as these are not SDS motors or alike anyway BigGrin ). One or two of them got more noisy, but the reasons for this can be worn brushes in different positions, problems with the brush holder or maybe ball bearing not in the 100 % correct position.

Overall I'm very happy with the results. I also cleaned all these motors at the same time and oiled the gears and axles if needed. In my opinion Märkin should have used ball bearings in all of their DCM motors.

I found out one other loco that still needs ball bearings. It is our other 3104 DB BR 89 066. And as I like challenges I will try again that 37196 DRG BR 91.9. Somehow it was very difficult to get access to the lower motor screw. In some C-Sinus motor equipped locos there are that very same plastic bush in the loco frame (block). I will maybe put a ball bearing in place of those bushes to get these great C-Sinus motors even better.

Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Janne75
Offline Moritz-BR365  
#148 Posted : 04 May 2014 22:50:32(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 652
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
In some C-Sinus motor equipped locos there are that very same plastic bush in the loco frame (block). I will maybe put a ball bearing in place of those bushes to get these great C-Sinus motors even better.

Hello Janne,
I think, in C-Sinus locos, the drilling hole in the loco frame is not used as bearing. At least my E19 doesn't have a bewaring in the frame but only a hole.

Therefore, there is no improvement when mounting a ball bearing.

Regards,
Moritz
Offline river6109  
#149 Posted : 05 May 2014 02:45:50(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,410
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Janne, re: BR 91.9.

did you take off the plastic housing of the rotating disk ? I have converted 2 of them but did not find the problem you've expressed.

motor more noisy: I usually look at the angle the ball bearing sits in the brush plate by placing the armature within the ball baring from the in and outside and this gives me a visual view about the ball bearings angle position.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Janne75  
#150 Posted : 05 May 2014 07:43:45(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,572
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
In some C-Sinus motor equipped locos there are that very same plastic bush in the loco frame (block). I will maybe put a ball bearing in place of those bushes to get these great C-Sinus motors even better.

Hello Janne,
I think, in C-Sinus locos, the drilling hole in the loco frame is not used as bearing. At least my E19 doesn't have a bewaring in the frame but only a hole.

Therefore, there is no improvement when mounting a ball bearing.

Regards,
Moritz


Hi Moritz,

Thanks for info. I have not looked at this very closely as I just noticed there was similar looking place in my DB BR 01 39103 when I had it´s body off for different reason. I have to open it again and see to be sure.

Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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