Janne,
In Australia these type or any micro ball bearings, you can't buy them and the best chance is searching google for German firms or even American firms.

See if you can find out more as I would be interested as well.

John

My understanding is ID - OD - W is the accepted standard for the order.

I found some ceramic bearings, but they were something like $6 each. For a couple dozen lokos, I decided that was going to be way too much.

Now - here is my thinking about how I would do the drilling next weekend... The aim is to not drill through the whole plastic piece...

My only thoughts are - Should I do it from the outside of the motor cover or from the inside ?

My initial thought was " from outside", but if the bearing could be aligned on the "inside", I now think that would be better...
It's quite fun to think about these detail variations about what would be the best approach...

Will have to practice on old analog DCM covers first, of course...

The plastic seems to be thick enough for the 1.2mm wide bearings I have (if from "inside"), but maybe not for the 2mm wide bearings I also have...
If using the "outside" approach, it could work with either...

I got this idea since it would then be easy to align the bearing if they had a "rest" area around the edges.
The perfect practical solution would of course to use flanged bearings in a drill through, but they are so darn expensive in these small dimensions...

I'll probably end up drilling right through as shown earlier in the topic, but I thought this idea should be tested too before scrapping it completely...

I think that is a great idea too, more precise drilling work thought.....
If well done the ball bearing will be much more securely fitted in place

Hi John,

When I was there on the factory tour during the Marklin Days Fri Sept '13, I had those sort of thoughts very much in mind. I thought I could help them with a thing or two
However on the day the only Loks I saw being assembled & tested were the '58, which made me proud, or not, I'm not sure, that I had recieved my '58 in the week before leaving NZ for De. Certainly relieved it wasn't languishing at the Post Office
I was impressed by the care taken with the work I saw by the staff at the various stages of assembly
We did see the Starlight Express Loks (BR101 with DCM) at the printing stage and I was hoping to see the Motor Bogie assembly but anyway, the assembly of them and fitting of Motor Shields is done before they reach the final assembly hall However (off topic) we did see the tyres being fitted to the wheels on axles, by a machine, prior to the axles being fitted to the driving bogie (Truck) but I did not see the assembly of the motor Bogies other wise their problems would all be fixed now !
I concure with what was mentioned above about a little bit of adjustment/movement of the Motor Shield position to quieten a noisey DCM assembly, and checking of brush holder alignment etc, my learned friend The Train Dr has spoken lots about those issues when I've complained about noisey DCMs, and of course mentions when he has done the same when doing conversions for me !
I consider myself fortunate to have owned a 37605 VT11.5 Railcar for 8 years now, and it certainly is a lovely, quiet and smooth runner, and even with the old style sound "generators" make very nice V12 diesel noises, from both end's of the model, especially at crawling speed .
I wonder, has any of you ball bearingers above thought of looking at 37605 motor bogie (power truck) to see how Marklin do it ?
just don't ask to pull mine apart
Next time I get her out for a run, I may lube the axles, but the ball bearing motors wil be fine

Matt thanks for that, I have to go down the local hardware shop but I'm finding Western Australia is very short on any precision tools or drill bit like the one you've shown, it is frustrating every time you want to buy something it has to come from overseas, it may be it is produced overseas in the first place but most the time its not available here.
Off topic: bought some ESU modules and they need some connectors: not available here and I've purchased them through ebay.

Hi everyone,

I'm really pleased with this topic, with many responses, it brings so many good and interesting ideas together and what looked like was an impossible task, has become, I hope by the time we've finished establishing the easiest or best way to drill a hole a task everyone who is willing to give it a go, can now or will be able to achieve.
We've overcome the myth about the hole in the motor block has to be drilled whereas it was as easy as abc by just removing the plastic insert.

our next task could be to establish who supplies a good enclosed ball bearing and at the same time at a reasonable price

my supplier is Mikro Antriebe and he has other very interesting products such as prefabricated road car systems, he does ship worldwide and excepts paypal and his deliveries are prompt., I must stress I have no affiliation with this company. the proprietor I believe is German but the company or factory is in Poland, by the time you order 50 (this is how many I buy at any given time) or so you get a discount or ask if there is a discount available when buying in bulk.

50 x Miniature Ball Bearings 1,5mm 4mm 2mm = 0,86 EUR 43,00 EUR + Euro 5.00 postage

shipping time: 2-6 workdays ready to send


http://www.shop.kkpmo.co...5f4d93ea83b093bc7c6f625d

Well it looks like the forum is on a roll again with out too many squeaks, screeches and unpleasant noises,

Francisco,

I'm glad you're getting there slowly, as you know Rome wasn't build in one day and climbing Mt. Everest was never an easy task, you have to prepare yourself for it.
You'll get there in the end, I'm sure of it.

regards.,

John

Juhan,

I had my Dremel drill for years now and it is still working today without a hitch, I also bought the Dremel stand but found it wasn't completely static and showed some movements enough for me not to pursue this option with the stand, the other thing you quite rightly expressed your concern are the 5000 rpm and these amount of revolution per minute isn't good for plastic or for that matter for any drill bit it just burns the drill or melts the plastic. I have a cordless drill which has a much lower variable speed setting but is a bit bulky.
as mentioned before the Dremel chuck it doesn't take a 4mm drill but I think it was mentioned you can fit a larger size chuck onto it.

using an old motor shield is a brilliant idea and this will give you all the results you need and didn't need

good luck I may invest into another drill stand, they are so cheap these days, we shifted house it was to heavy to shift so I sold it.

regards.,

John

Well, my tests today concluded that my initial idea was crap.... A full 4 mm hole is the way to go, since the plastic was a bit on the thin side for my skills...

Went through 3 standard DCM motor shields as a practice, and I ended up with drilling the hole to 3.2 mm with the Dremel stuff.
Then I used a pointy triangular model file to grate the top end of the hole a little bit wider (just turning it around in the hole), and finally I used
a 4 mm drill bit (turning it by hand) to get the final size of the hole... Result - bearing fits snugly and rotor spins nicely...

Think I have accumulated enough courage to do the "real deal" soon, with a Digital DCM plate....

Dremel 8100 runs at 5000 RPM as lowest and it's a bit much, but with care - it will do... Have ordered 4 mm drill bits with 3.2 mm shafts for it from Germany (Conrad)...
Have also bought a heavy holding block for the drill stand today to hold the shields while drilling... Now I just have to get some nuts & bolts from work
to secure it in a static position so it can hold the shields to be drilled without mishaps...

There are a lot of 6090 loks to be modified this way...

And if the Dremel stuff & stand is not 100%, at least I have a new tool in my workshop corner that can be used for other things too...

Steve,

very good point, I'll may look into it but it has to be spot on and precisely otherwise you could have return claims, the other problem could arise as it happened to me regardless how accurate the motor shield conversion is the whole motor block is out of whack and again most modellers wouldn't know about it and may claim your work isn't up to scratch.
I would say the labour and parts would be around the A$ 10.00 mark not including the motor shield itself and buying it as a retail item price may prevent you from going into production because some one who has an account with Märklin could easily copy the idea and undercut the price and you're left with hundreds of motor shield which will be obsolete

John

And now, it is ready, i have used two T18 for testing purposes. i have done the drilling by hand at end. One of the things that takes my attention in the firts place was how freely the rotor spins with the ball bearings, meaning to me much less resistance and perhaps less power comsuption. Checked with the information in the CS2 and it seems to be a little less indeed.
I have made a little video showing both engines running



I am happy with the inmediate results, and if you think that the loco will never be opened again for oiling, it is better

Edited by user 06 March 2014 20:38:16(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Nice work Francisco, I have been wanting to try this as well. I can't believe how much noisier the unmodified model is...

Hi Francisco,

The running is much more silent when there are these ball bearings in DCM motor vs. without them. I have a long list of locomotives waiting for this improvement, when I have time to do it. I have to first decide which ball bearings I should use. I think I will use the cheaper "normal" versions and not ceramic bearings. Was it difficult to get it done for the motor shield? Did you "drill" the final size by hand = rotating only by your hand without any electric drilling machine?

Congratulations for the great succesfully work!

Cheers,
Janne

Hello, i didnt wanted to say it was very easy, you can summon some bad demons, but it was.....
Today's victim, my 3102, done it just before lunch



i will document only the brush plate part, to drill the hole, i secure it again in the loco, without the rotor of course



I wanted to use my Dremel and the drilling stand, but had no time yet to modify the drills, so i bought these



to use with this tool, good torque, but very slow rpm's



the result is



To fit the ball bearing, i use an old DCM rotor



Ball bearing in place



Securing the carbon holders before the final re-assembly



And the final result



Loco working silent and with no troubles at all
At all, a 10-15 min job, think it took me longer to write this post....

That was about what it took me too. I stopped drilling the motor shield in steps and just went straight to the 4mm bit. The jig I used (see post 34) made the drilling procedure very accurate and I found I had a tighter fit pressing the bearings in by not going through several steps to drill the shield.

Francisco's video comparing with & without....

And THAT is a nice tool!!!!!
I had the same thoughts of oiling the bearins, but since mine are shielded too, i think we have to trust on the manofacturing process....

I have a number of suitable bearings... Maybe I should set up a marklin-users.net donation bearing kit sale in the "I want to sell"?

last test while upgrading a E60
At 50% throttle forward, readings on the CS2 are around 0.17 A, after upgrading they dropped to 0.11 A
Regards

Just to be clear, I plan to fit the bearings on an already modified LFCM motor...with a 5 pole motor...and a drum collector!
I agree, the pressure of the brushes could be a problem with the original configuration, but I think the kind of pressure exerted by the brushes is small enough that the bearing could probably take it.
Cheers

I'm thinking about those flat comm motors too. Mine have all been converted to HEPs with drum comms, so the motor shield is no problem. But drilling the loko frame will be difficult. Supporting the odd shapes square with the drill press is where I see the problem. Once that is sorted, drilling it should be easy. I'm still studying the situation.

Well, that's the whole point, you're so right!
Each lok is a bit different, requiring a different approach.

One thing one realizes when he starts using a milling machine: mounting the piece on the table and indexing ( = set it "square", and at the right spot) properly is in my experience up to 80 % of the time.

But it is all a matter of practice and also sharing ideas with other hobbyists...

Next installment will be forthcoming (when I figure it out )...stay tuned!

Cheers

converting older motors e.g. LFCM, SFCM are very indeed harder to do. you need a 5mm outer diameter ball bearing and not 6mm, secondly your chance of keeping the centre hole in contact or as a guide could also diminish and if you can save enough of the old motor shield I would suggest to use the material they use in the motor industry its like plastercine (putty), comes in a stick and you can form it by kneading the required volume you can apply it with your finger around the ball bearing making sure you don't put any of this stuff near the inner diameter. it will harden in a day and its solid as steel. you should have time to align the ball bearing correctly before it sets. trail and error.

http://www.ebay.com.au/i...&viphx=1&lpid=94

John