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Offline Ranjit  
#1 Posted : 11 February 2009 00:58:40(UTC)
Ranjit

Malaysia   
Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,888
Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA
Hi All,

Something just popped up, and I was wondering what we would all do if Marklin ceases to exist. I would be interested in your thoughts.

Cheers,
Ranjit
"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come" - Victor Marie Hugo
"If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney
Offline mjrallare  
#2 Posted : 11 February 2009 01:04:14(UTC)
mjrallare


Joined: 14/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 558
It won't happen! wink

/Torbjörn
Offline Ranjit  
#3 Posted : 11 February 2009 01:07:21(UTC)
Ranjit

Malaysia   
Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,888
Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA
Thank you for your optimism, Torbjörn, but really are you sure?

Cheers,
ranjit
"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come" - Victor Marie Hugo
"If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney
Offline mjrallare  
#4 Posted : 11 February 2009 01:17:09(UTC)
mjrallare


Joined: 14/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 558
Well we can't be 100 % sure of anything, can we? [8)]
But I do believe that Märklin will continue in one way or the other.

/Torbjörn

(But I've bought a lot of C-track, just in case! biggrin)

Offline jeehring  
#5 Posted : 11 February 2009 01:20:20(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by mjrallare
<br />It won't happen! wink

/Torbjörn

Are you serious ?

Offline perz  
#6 Posted : 11 February 2009 01:27:28(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,517
Location: Sweden
I would drop my new layout project.
Offline Ranjit  
#7 Posted : 11 February 2009 01:30:25(UTC)
Ranjit

Malaysia   
Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,888
Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA
Oh, don't do that, Per.

I hope that Torbjörn is right. He seems to have something up his sleeve.

Cheers,
Ranjit
"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come" - Victor Marie Hugo
"If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney
Offline mjrallare  
#8 Posted : 11 February 2009 01:46:17(UTC)
mjrallare


Joined: 14/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 558
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jeehring
Are you serious ?

I gave a link in another thread to the "Handelsblatt", were they reported that the legal construction made by Kingsbridge around Märklin could hamper a possible sale.

But I would say, judging from the info available, that the chances that Märklin will continue to exist in one form or the other, are greater than the risk that it will vanish completely.

But of course, no one knows for sure what will happen. I doubt even the famous St Pluta knows for sure.

/Torbjörn
Offline Ranjit  
#9 Posted : 11 February 2009 02:29:26(UTC)
Ranjit

Malaysia   
Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,888
Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA
Thanks for that info, Torbjörn. Let's see what happens after the Messe.

Cheers,
Ranjit
"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come" - Victor Marie Hugo
"If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney
Offline MarioFabro  
#10 Posted : 11 February 2009 02:34:46(UTC)
MarioFabro

United States   
Joined: 16/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 793
Location: Pittsburgh,
I will keep the Marklin system because I think it's the best. Will try to get as much C track as I can and build my lay-out anyway.

It is not difficult to convert DC locomotives to AC and I am sure still someone will pic-up the slack. The Marklin system will not go away, simple too large installed base to disappear.
UserPostedImageUserPostedImageUserPostedImageEra IV-VI --- "If you have brains you love trains" or "When I grow up, I will play with trains"
Offline Ranjit  
#11 Posted : 11 February 2009 02:39:08(UTC)
Ranjit

Malaysia   
Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,888
Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA
Do the investment bankers care about the installed base, and about the quality, long history, brand name, etc. of Marklin? To them the bottom line is always $$$$.

Cheers,
Ranjit
"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come" - Victor Marie Hugo
"If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney
Offline mike c  
#12 Posted : 11 February 2009 03:55:51(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,345
Location: Montreal, QC
Maerklin will continue in one form or another.
The major issues facing any relaunch of the brand would be:

1) Given that the operations in Gyoer (Hungary) are not affected by this insolvency, that operation might not be part of an eventual settlement. As Kingsbridge is still the owner of Maerklin Hungary, there may be a conflict over use of the name and the brand.

The Roco insolvency resulted in the new company adopting the name Modelleisenbahn GmBH. The name Roco for a Corporation may still be in the name of Mr. Magdefrau. If Maerklin (Hungary) continued to make products as well as the relaunched brand, there could be two competing Maerklin's. I presume that most likely KB is just holding on to the Hungarian Unit to sell it (and the name) to whoever takes over the main operation.

2) As in the case with Roco, there may be certain technologies that were licensed to Maerklin and that might not automatically apply to the relaunched company. For example, Modelleisenbahn GmBH had to secure the rights to the Flusterschleife and the Universal Close Coupler before they could be marketed again. The same may apply to Maerklin catenary (Viessmann), pantographs (Sommerfeldt), current conducting detachable couplers and the Motorola based digital system.

I am sure that Maerklin will continue, even if not exactly in the same manner as before. I am 100% sure that 3-Rail AC will continue to be a viable system for as long as there are model trains. If not by M, then somebody else will step in.

But, we will have to wait and see a few months to know exactly how the insolvency will be concluded.

Regards

Mike C
Offline Jeremy Palmer  
#13 Posted : 11 February 2009 05:16:10(UTC)
Jeremy Palmer

Barbados   
Joined: 15/04/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,464
Location: St. Michael, Barbados
I have as many trains and coaches/wagons as I could possibly want, so
it would seem that C track would be wise investment, Brawa make well
regarded items as do Hag. It would be sad to see a well known Marque
disappear but it happens. But I would like that 3 Croc setSmileSmile.
With regard to comment re Hag and Brawa I am sure there are others as
well. Just not known to me.

Recent correspondence from Brimalm, thank you Webbie, suggests there
will be other alternatives as well. Go to link below and look for
future models Komposit, there are drawings of 3 rail AC offering. It
strikes me that this would be a good time to show support to anyone
offering new product in our beloved format.

http://www.brimalm.com/eng/index.php

Peace and love,

Jeremy.
Jeremy.

1). If at first you don't succeed, bungee jumping mightn't be for you.
2). The early bird may get the worm, but it's the second rat that gets the cheese.
Offline Ranjit  
#14 Posted : 11 February 2009 05:31:22(UTC)
Ranjit

Malaysia   
Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,888
Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA
Hi Jeremy,

Never heard of Brimalm before this! Thank you for sharing this info. Btw, how long has Brimalm been in business, and are we comparing Brimalm with Marklin as an alternative?

Cheers,
Ranjit
"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come" - Victor Marie Hugo
"If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney
Offline MarioFabro  
#15 Posted : 11 February 2009 05:41:37(UTC)
MarioFabro

United States   
Joined: 16/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 793
Location: Pittsburgh,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Ranjit
<br />Do the investment bankers care about the installed base, and about the quality, long history, brand name, etc. of Marklin? To them the bottom line is always $$$$.

Cheers,
Ranjit

Ranjit,

I don't necessarily say that Marklin will be around, just the Marklin system. There will be still suppliers providing components and parts for the large installed base of Marklin systems. Weather their names are Roco, ESU, Hag, Rivarossi or Brawa I don't know. But I believe that if Marklin disappears you will find plenty of people filling the gap. If not, I will have no problems converting DC locomotives to AC etc etc
UserPostedImageUserPostedImageUserPostedImageEra IV-VI --- "If you have brains you love trains" or "When I grow up, I will play with trains"
Offline Tony  
#16 Posted : 11 February 2009 07:29:24(UTC)
Tony

Bahrain   
Joined: 18/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 719
Location: Bahrain (Ex South Africa),
For me it is not a big issue if M ceases to exist (as unlikley as that is), like Jeremy and many of you, I have heaps of locos, coaches track etc etc , even many spares - too much stuff everywhere..

I stayed away from the whole M Systems/Digital and am happy with the IB& switch etc. Have a number of new, spare old faithful 6021's. So no problems with proprietary repairs, etc

The world is a-flood with M stuff new and old, so we would always be able to get stuff if needed. Even the 1 gauge collection I have been building up over the past few years will not be a problem - there is also heaps of that stuff around - may have a probelm with 1 gauge spares though??

So no isses for me.
Regards Tony
Offline rhtastro  
#17 Posted : 11 February 2009 09:12:28(UTC)
rhtastro

United States   
Joined: 19/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2,835
Location: Northern California,
That closet full of unused C-track and switches looks better and better.

Cheers, Bob
Robert's trains insured by Colt 45--Marklin Club of NorCal, Founder and Sole Member--- Robert's photos may be used as public domain-all copyrights waved
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent"-T.Jefferson
Offline jeehring  
#18 Posted : 11 February 2009 09:29:35(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by mjrallare
<br />
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jeehring
Are you serious ?

I gave a link in another thread to the "Handelsblatt", were they reported that the legal construction made by Kingsbridge around Märklin could hamper a possible sale.

/Torbjörn


I heard about this legal construction , which is a financial construction too .
In his approach , Mr Pluta probably will separate this financial construction from the industrial concern ( Marklin business).
In fact this financial construction probably was taken too much cash , putting a strain on the results generated by industrial activity.
At the same time the attorney probably will press for the restructuring of this "legal construction" ( financial construction)with the help of banks, or proposing a new one and selling it to new investors , etc...etc... etc...( this new financial construction will last 2 or 3 , or more years : 1/ pay Kingsbridge and 2/ taking less cash than before from the industrial concern...)

It is a common business , someone has explained this to me . This is what they use to do when this financial construction swallows too much money too rapidly ( or when the industrial concern didn't generate enough cash [}:)] depending on which side you are [}:)] ) )

As it has been explained to me : negociation probably will be hard ( between Kingsbridge who wants his money back , and the new investors ). Don't forget Kingsbridge has bought Marklin for a certain amount . But they didn't make it "for nothing"

At the same time & from another side , they will do their best to make the industrial concern more profitable , which is another matter
So we understand the interest of separating the industrial concern from the financial construction made by kingsbridge to buy Marklin...
Offline TimR  
#19 Posted : 11 February 2009 11:46:03(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by mjrallare
<br />It won't happen! wink

/Torbjörn


I second that wink

Marklin's 150 years reputation guarantees it..
Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline kgsjoqvist  
#20 Posted : 11 February 2009 14:16:59(UTC)
kgsjoqvist

Sweden   
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 715
Location: Täby
My Z-scale project may suffer if noone makes Z trains any more - but on the other hand I think I have enough model railroading stuff to build a layout and a second layout as well.

In the H0 world there are a lot of possible ways to go. I wouldn't invest heavily in Märklin Digital right now, but I'm not giving up the trains!
K-G / H0 and Z model train user
Offline RayF  
#21 Posted : 11 February 2009 15:01:32(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,419
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Although it's difficult to see what will happen to the company and the brand, there is a lot of Marklin out there at the moment which is going to be available for a long time to come.

The fact that the trains and accessories are so durable means that it is possible to find items in good condition which were last produced 30 or 40 years ago or more. Bacause of this I don't think there will be a point where you won't find Marklin trains to buy, especially as the number of modellers will continue to drop over the years.

Even if Marklin stopped producing trains today, I would not be surprised if there is an over-supply of second hand Marklin in the years to come.

Ray
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline spitzenklasse  
#22 Posted : 11 February 2009 15:10:13(UTC)
spitzenklasse


Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,573
Location: ,
As I expressed on the thread about Marklin in bankruptcy, They have survived worse. Let's all hope for a worldwide economic miracle again!
Should Marklin close it's doors, maybe someone else will buy the tooling, etc. Does anyone think the value of our items will climb in that case?
Offline river6109  
#23 Posted : 11 February 2009 15:56:57(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,544
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
This is also my question, has Märklin's 2009 new items being intended for production as an over the top selling strategy ?
With a world financial crisis we will see if the other modeltrain manufacturers can bite the bullet and stay in the game.
Märklin will come back in a different form and size.
Märklin's selling products, helped by ebay, whereas locos are now being disassembled and sold as "parts".
Märklin sets being broken up and sold individually on ebay.
the second hand market is huge, who knows how much the market of buyers can take ?
And what do you describe as "second hand" ?
If its rare, in a box, good condition and its up for auction, you can win or loose. the price you are prepared to pay.
Outside of germany you may sell a 3000 loco for as little as Euro 10, in the USA it may fetch up to US$ 50.00.
With the ebay second hand Märklin Market it has attracted buyers within germany but a great deal outside of germany from overseas, whereas collectors, model train enthusiasts have not been able to buy something of the shelf before. as easy as today.
I think Märklin has dominated the second hand market.



https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline davemr  
#24 Posted : 11 February 2009 18:17:00(UTC)
davemr


Joined: 09/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 983
Location: ,
As long as we can get track then we will be OK. If Marklin does disappear then the world will go on as usual and the other manufacturers will be delighted to pick up a new share of the market. I prefer Marklin would would be quite happy to buy other makes to keep the hobby going. Who would buy the firm and take on huge debts?
Maybe they can keep going in a smaller form.
Sad thing is apart from us enthusiasts I dont think anybody really cares when there are much more important firms in trouble like the car industry.
davemr
Offline Goofy  
#25 Posted : 11 February 2009 18:39:32(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,031
It´s was not the first time to have problem with economy.
Same way about 2 years ago...!
And now worse did happens...!
No i don´t think Marklin will survive into future,if not less Marklin are cleaning up inside of factory.
Like to stop severals of products that is not selling good.

Goofy
DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline dntower85  
#26 Posted : 11 February 2009 19:09:47(UTC)
dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
My Bank account might be better off if they go under. Smile

As long as I can get service parts like traction tires I'll be ok. I'm sure someone will make them even if its a o-ring company making special production runs. marklin enthusiast are very clever and will come up with ways to keep on going.
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
Offline al_pignolo  
#27 Posted : 11 February 2009 19:54:54(UTC)
al_pignolo


Joined: 30/09/2005(UTC)
Posts: 904
Location: bologna, BO
I agree with most of you. Even in the (horrible!) case that Marklin disappears, soemone will produce models and tracks according to M stadards.
In example I heard some times ago that Peco tracks can be fitted with the central rail (but I don't know if it's true!)
Pietro
Offline SRB  
#28 Posted : 11 February 2009 22:24:49(UTC)
SRB


Joined: 19/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: ,
I made a greater investment in C-track last month.

No doubt that M* (at least the name) will stay in market. But I hope the production will be continued in Germany.
Regards Stig
IB; C-track; DSB and SBB ep. III-V
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