Joined: 30/09/2005(UTC)
Posts: 904
Location: bologna, BO
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Hi all.
I digitalized a 34761 diesel train with the 60760 kit (decoder + 5-pole rotor). The motor and the decoder work good but, when the pickup shoe lacks the contact for some reason (i.e. in turnouts), the motor stops and restarts accelerating from zero, even if the speed was high. This makes the train running very bad, as you can imagine... [:(]
None of my other decoders behave like that. Is this the "alzheimer" problem? What can I do? In the instructions I read that this decoder has only a few of programmable CVs: accelerating and braking delay, maximum speed and loco address.
Someone has tips?
Thank you
Pietro
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Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,165
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Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb] |
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Joined: 30/09/2005(UTC)
Posts: 904
Location: bologna, BO
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Great! Easy to solve (why M* doesn't modify the decoder in the factory?) And also the other upgrades are useful. Thanks  Pietro
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 Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 5,382 Location: Akershus, Norway
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Has anybody in the forum testet the resistor and capacitor solution? I have, and I am not very happy with it. From the hint in the x-train site, I read that the capacitor should be from 470 to 1.000 microfarad, and the resistor 10kOhm. I thought that a big capacitor would store a lot of back-up power, so I used a 1.000uF 6,3V capasitor, and a 10kOhm resistor. The wiring diagram:  Frankly, I think that it doesn't help at all. Mabye the charging time becomers to long, so a smaller resistor should be used? My test locomotive is a 3044, where I allready have cleaned the wheels, axels and axel bushings, and reduced the number of traction tyres to one. It has a new pick-up shoe. Maybe the best solution is to wait for the new mLD decoder 60942 or 60962 from Märklin. I think the price is quite good. Suggestions, anyone? Edited by moderator 24 September 2018 01:15:20(UTC)
| Reason: Realigned the link to the new home of Intruder's site |
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
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 1 user liked this useful post by intruder
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,442
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: intruder  Has anybody in the forum testet the resistor and capacitor solution? I haven't tried it. The capacitor is an "Anti Alzheimer" measure to prevent the loco from starting at speed step 0 and accelerating slowly with ABD whenever it finds a tiny bit of dirt on the rails. It only buffers the "brain", but doesn't supply power to the motor. A capacitor that supplies motor power would require a different wiring (diode plus resistor) and would be a different type (35 V for digital operation only). And you'd need 2,200 µF or more to see an effect. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
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 Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 800
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Originally Posted by: intruder Has anybody in the forum testet the resistor and capacitor solution? I have, and I am not very happy with it. From the hint in the x-train site, I read that the capacitor should be from 470 to 1.000 microfarad, and the resistor 10kOhm. I thought that a big capacitor would store a lot of back-up power, so I used a 1.000uF 6,3V capasitor, and a 10kOhm resistor. The wiring diagram:  Frankly, I think that it doesn't help at all. Mabye the charging time becomers to long, so a smaller resistor should be used? My test locomotive is a 3044, where I allready have cleaned the wheels, axels and axel bushings, and reduced the number of traction tyres to one. It has a new pick-up shoe. Maybe the best solution is to wait for the new mLD decoder 60942 or 60962 from Märklin. I think the price is quite good. Suggestions, anyone? Hi svein, I don't know the 60760 decoder, but I can tell what I made on my loksound 3.5 to avoid alzheimer. I used a 47000uF 6V "gold cap" (small size in spite of its large value). In order to protect the decoder, I included a 220 Ohm series resistor, that limits the load current. A shotky diode is connected in parallel with that resistor, to supply the decoder with a small drop voltage when necessary. The connections are as follows, on the 21 pins connector -Gold cap: "-" wire to Pin 20; "+"wire to the 220 Ohm resistor. -220 Ohm resistor between "+" wire of the cap and Pin 12 -shotky diode in parallel to the resistor; cathode to Pin 12 and anode to the "+" of the cap. Alzheimer has completly disappeared. Fred
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1 user liked this useful post by efel
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 Joined: 01/03/2009(UTC) Posts: 1,339 Location: USA
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ETE  ECoS iTrain TouchCab C-Gleis German Era Id & IIIb USA Era IIIb SBB Era III SJ Era IV GC Era V |
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 Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,771 Location: New Zealand
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Originally Posted by: GSRR Is the new ESU 4.0 decoder with the battery backup, in part a fix for this sort of issue?
That's how ESU seem to be portraying them.
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Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 5,382 Location: Akershus, Norway
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Based on the some information here (thanks, Fred!), I will first of all try a smaller resistor. |
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
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Joined: 29/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 301
Location: Sheffield,
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Hi, does anyone know where the excellent x-train info now resides? I'm having a lot of difficulty finding the extremely useful info that used to be there. eg http://decoder.x-train.d...ecoder/digipic/60760.php now is a 404. I'm trying to find the layout of the 60760 board so that I can locate the pin's referred to above for the Alzheimer's solution. Photo of 60760...  but which solder pads are the ones referred to above? the description implies that + is orange whereas the board has clear + signs in the corner next to where the yellow wire connects, there is a spare solder pad in the middle next to the orange wire and there are also 5 solder pads on the opposite side of the board - any ideas anyone? Cheers Stu |
Must build something |
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Joined: 29/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 301
Location: Sheffield,
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Hi, found my answers here Modify a 60760 decoder. I tried a 10,000 uF capacitor and a 5K resistor + solder pad (furthest in on the batch of 5) to resistor resistor to the + of the capacitor - of the capacitor onto the - solder pad (nearest to the edge in the group of 5). The capacitor is huge so good job its a tender loco. Seems to work, but then the track is pretty clean and as always with these things now that I've come to modify it it didn't seem that bad in the test run before the mod. Loc is still running both in analog and digital so hopefully all good. Stu |
Must build something |
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Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,165
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I have most of the x-train content and can provide pdf views of pages... |
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb] |
3 users liked this useful post by Webmaster
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Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,843
Location: Norway
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Originally Posted by: scraigen Hi, does anyone know where the excellent x-train info now resides? Well, Reinhard Bobzin, the man behind X-train died last january,,, |
Pål Paulsen
Märklin Spur 1 Digital, epoche 3 |
1 user liked this useful post by pa-pauls
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 Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,298 Location: Patagonia
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Sad news.........
the site was excellent, even if you dont know much german.....like me :) |
 German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL |
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Joined: 20/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 111
Location: ,
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Originally Posted by: Webmaster I have most of the x-train content and can provide pdf views of pages...
Are you entittled to "publish" the content somewhere? Best regards Olav
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Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,298 Location: Patagonia
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Originally Posted by: Olav Originally Posted by: Webmaster I have most of the x-train content and can provide pdf views of pages...
Are you entittled to "publish" the content somewhere? Best regards Olav of send it by email? :) |
German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL |
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Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 5,382 Location: Akershus, Norway
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I have done some more testing with the 60760 decoder installed in my 3044. Initially I used a 1000 uF capacitor. With the 10 Kohm resisitor, the charging time seemed to be too long. Later I changed to a 470 uF capacitor, still using a 10 Kohm resisitor. The new wiring diagram: A photo of the decoder, with the black and purple wires to the capacitor and resitor unit:  A home made "Anti-Alzheiner" circuit board in the locomotive:  I am satisfied with this capacitor and resistor combination. Edited by moderator 24 September 2018 01:31:27(UTC)
| Reason: Realigned the image link/s to the new home of Intruder's site |
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
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3 users liked this useful post by intruder
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 Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC) Posts: 2,261 Location: Hobart, Australia
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Hello again Märklineers, A long time ago I converted this old treasured 3053  :    to digital:   I am not sure which Märklin conversion set I used but I think it was 60904 It runs well but has the Alzheimers whenever it goes over a Märklin “switching track”  e.g. :  I put the problem on the “backburner”, understanding that it must relate to the decoder re-setting after a momentary loss of digital current/signal and wondering if a gadget similar to the ESU "Power pack" would help but did not know how to specifically fix it myself until coming across this thread recently. Thus I was keen to correct the problem with an electrolytic capacitor and a resistor, however I cannot see any points to which I should connect them like in the description for 60760. The decoder :  I would be grateful of any advice you may care to give me if anyone has any ideas. Regards, PJ
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Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,489 Location: Lyon, France
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Hello PJ,
Your decoder looks like an ESU lokpilotV4.
If it is the case, then download the english doc (edition 6) of LPV4 decoders at ESU web site, and look at chapter 6.10.2.
Be sure your decoder is a LPV4...
Note: soldering points for power pack are tiny, and you need a magnifier (or good eyes !) and a soldering iron with a fine tip... you also need to remove a small part of the protective sheath, in order to access the soldering points.
Good luck
Fabrice
PS: just re-read your post. You said "a long time ago", so it may not be a lpv4... lpv3.5, lpv3 ??? I've started to convert my own locos with lpv4 in 2011.
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1 user liked this useful post by French_Fabrice
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Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC) Posts: 2,261 Location: Hobart, Australia
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Originally Posted by: French_Fabrice Hello PJ,
Your decoder looks like an ESU lokpilotV4.
If it is the case, then download the english doc (edition 6) of LPV4 decoders at ESU web site, and look at chapter 6.10.2.
Be sure your decoder is a LPV4...
Note: soldering points for power pack are tiny, and you need a magnifier (or good eyes !) and a soldering iron with a fine tip... you also need to remove a small part of the protective sheath, in order to access the soldering points.
Good luck
Fabrice
PS: just re-read your post. You said "a long time ago", so it may not be a lpv4... lpv3.5, lpv3 ??? I've started to convert my own locos with lpv4 in 2011. Hi Fabrice, Thank you for your kind information, I will look at the ESU website, Regards, PJ
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 Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC) Posts: 459 Location: Kaarina
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An old thread, but since it covers the power for the decoder very well, I’d like to ask for powering the motor also.
So I still have a few locos with 60760 (those that are inside the ”shrink tube” sort of isolator cover. I’ve yet to open one up)
Anyways my slow speed yard operations are somewhat ruined because locos stop on some turnouts (threeway especially).
So does powering the motor differ in someway?
I’ve succesfully made 1-2 Farad powerpacks with 100 ohm resistor and a diod for mLD3 and mSD3.
I’d wish to add same kind to 60760, so are the connections different than for the alzheimers solution?
-Eino
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,442
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: einotuominen So does powering the motor differ in someway? The circuit shown here buffers the 5 V used by the processor chip to prevent memory loss (between black and violet). Buffering motor power would occur between orange and violet and requires capacitors for a higher voltage. It can't harm to add both capacitors (5 V and motor power). Originally Posted by: einotuominen I’ve succesfully made 1-2 Farad powerpacks with 100 ohm resistor and a diod for mLD3 and mSD3. I assume you mean 0.001 to 0.002 Farad. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
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Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC) Posts: 459 Location: Kaarina
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Originally Posted by: H0 The circuit shown here buffers the 5 V used by the processor chip to prevent memory loss (between black and violet).
Buffering motor power would occur between orange and violet and requires capacitors for a higher voltage.
It can't harm to add both capacitors (5 V and motor power).
So 25V to these purple and yellow connections right? That will power the motor. It of course won't do much if the decoder shuts down, so then I would need another powepack around 470uF of 5V that would connect minus to the black circle and plus again to the purple? Would the power pack that powers the decoder be built the same way as for motor? 100 ohm resistor and a diod?  Originally Posted by: H0 I assume you mean 0.001 to 0.002 Farad. That's what I wrote ;) sorry my bad. 1000-2000uF. Thanks! -Eino Edit/AddThese decoders I have do not suffer the alzheimers though… I just want to get slow moving locos over bad spots.
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,442
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: einotuominen So 25V to these purple and yellow connections right? Purple and orange. I assume you will need 50 V capacitors if analogue operation shall be possible. 25 V or 35 V should be enough for digital only operation. HGH also recommends 50 V: https://moba-hgh.de/mode...maerklin-trix-power-pack |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
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Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC) Posts: 459 Location: Kaarina
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Originally Posted by: H0 Yes, orange not yellow, sorry. Is polarity correct, minus to the orange? Only digital, no analog. I’ll check that link. Thank you for your help! -Eino
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,442
Location: DE-NW
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Orange is plus and purple is minus, as shown in the diagram above. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
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Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC) Posts: 459 Location: Kaarina
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Originally Posted by: H0 Orange is plus and purple is minus, as shown in the diagram above. Ah, plus of course to the common wire.
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