Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline marklinist5999  
#1 Posted : 29 July 2023 14:51:42(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,142
Location: Michigan, Troy
Hello, the wheels are clean, rails are clean! slider clean! Could it be the copper wheel contacts up under the bogies need cleaning? Why does it only stop after a while? Expansion from heat?, but motor still cool. Anyon else with this model experience this?
Offline bph  
#2 Posted : 29 July 2023 16:21:49(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 996
yes, try to clean the "ground" pickups carefully. You can also check that the wires from ground pickups are intact, eg that none has come loose etc. If I remember correctly mine has a total of 4 wires going to the decoder.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bph
Offline marklinist5999  
#3 Posted : 29 July 2023 16:54:57(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,142
Location: Michigan, Troy
Thank's bph! It hasn't been ran a whole lot.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 30 July 2023 18:50:43(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,130
Location: Paris, France
Hi
I may be wrong, of course but seems to me Märklin ground return, on most (huge majority of them) is made by wheel axles.
Regarding the 39212, the ground return goes through a number of parts (see the exploded diagram below):
- the wheel pair
- its axle rings
- the bogie Zamak frame
- the loco Zamak chassis
Ground contact must go through all these parts and if any is unclean (old oil) / sludge then there is no contact
39212 bogies.png.
Ideally removing the bogies and cleaning using RS24 (Noch) and then drying / lubricating makes wonders.
Sometimes, only a little "practice" (let the loco run on a loop for a little while) is enough to restore a good contact.


Cheers
Jean
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline cintrans  
#5 Posted : 30 July 2023 21:05:30(UTC)
cintrans

Aruba   
Joined: 11/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 172
Location: Aruba (general), Oranjestad
My br212 (#37724) does exactly the same thing....
Stops randomly, a small nudge makes it move again....

Curious to see if this is a "common" issue and if there is a cure. Did all the usual cleans already, even changed the decoder, no changes...

Regards
Jean-Pierre
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by cintrans
Offline bph  
#6 Posted : 30 July 2023 21:12:22(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 996
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi
I may be wrong, of course but seems to me Märklin ground return, on most (huge majority of them) is made by wheel axles.
Regarding the 39212, the ground return goes through a number of parts (see the exploded diagram below):
- the wheel pair
- its axle rings
- the bogie Zamak frame
- the loco Zamak chassis
Ground contact must go through all these parts and if any is unclean (old oil) / sludge then there is no contact
Ideally removing the bogies and cleaning using RS24 (Noch) and then drying / lubricating makes wonders.
Sometimes, only a little "practice" (let the loco run on a loop for a little while) is enough to restore a good contact.
Cheers
Jean


Hi
This model (at least the later ones like mine) is a bit different as I believe it's basically a "DC" model. It, therefore, has two "track" pickups on each bogie. And on the AC model the left and right track pickups are just soldered together, making it 4 wires going together as ground. (2 wires from each bogie)

The track pickup is a small copper slide on the inside of each wheel. In the picture below I have coloured it yellow.
pickup.jpg
so it is these contact areas that need to be cleaned, if they are dirty.
and of course, the cause of the problem might also be something else....
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bph
Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 30 July 2023 22:18:53(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: cintrans Go to Quoted Post
My br212 (#37724) does exactly the same thing....
Stops randomly, a small nudge makes it move again....
The 37724 has two powered axles, the 39212 has four powered axles. Or with other word: they have nothing in common.

When the loco stops, but the lights are on, then there could be a problem with the brushes. I saw that with sisters of 37724.
When the loco stops and the lights are out, then there is a contact problem - either with centre-rail or, more likely, with outer rails.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline Goofy  
#8 Posted : 31 July 2023 09:45:04(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,020
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: cintrans Go to Quoted Post
My br212 (#37724) does exactly the same thing....
Stops randomly, a small nudge makes it move again....
The 37724 has two powered axles, the 39212 has four powered axles. Or with other word: they have nothing in common.

When the loco stops, but the lights are on, then there could be a problem with the brushes. I saw that with sisters of 37724.
When the loco stops and the lights are out, then there is a contact problem - either with centre-rail or, more likely, with outer rails.


Good point!
But if loco stop and the light are out then in case it´s very bad contact with the Märklin locos and this do happens to me often.
This happens when oxid are the problem.
Always clean locomotives and the tracks!

Cool Cool Cool

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline bph  
#9 Posted : 31 July 2023 12:32:36(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 996
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: cintrans Go to Quoted Post
My br212 (#37724) does exactly the same thing....
Stops randomly, a small nudge makes it move again....
The 37724 has two powered axles, the 39212 has four powered axles. Or with other word: they have nothing in common.

When the loco stops, but the lights are on, then there could be a problem with the brushes. I saw that with sisters of 37724.
When the loco stops and the lights are out, then there is a contact problem - either with centre-rail or, more likely, with outer rails.


if the above does not solve it, you can also try to improve the ground pickup.
Eg like on this page:http://www.maerklin-sammler-infos.de/umbauten/lokomotiven/03072/03072_m_um.htm
Scroll down to: "Die Drehgestelle verbessern"

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bph
Offline marklinist5999  
#10 Posted : 31 July 2023 14:48:09(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,142
Location: Michigan, Troy
The lights do not remain on when it stops. I saw no excess oil, dust, or grease on anything. I used canned air, and plastic safe contact cleaner. I let it dry out 2 hours before running it. No difference. It is in curves that it quits the most. I thought perhaps that the decoder is being interfered by a lighting wire that passes under the tracks, or by the point where my ski lift power feed is connected to the track. Since others have the same issue though, it's unlikely.
I realize that these locos are mostly decommissioned from road switching and mainly used for dockside marshalling or in small yards, so it's not a major thing. I do however like running it around the layout with a moderate length freight consist.
Thank you Jean for the exploded diagram!
Offline bph  
#11 Posted : 31 July 2023 21:09:27(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 996
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
The lights do not remain on when it stops. I saw no excess oil, dust, or grease on anything. I used canned air, and plastic safe contact cleaner. I let it dry out 2 hours before running it. No difference. It is in curves that it quits the most. I thought perhaps that the decoder is being interfered by a lighting wire that passes under the tracks, or by the point where my ski lift power feed is connected to the track. Since others have the same issue though, it's unlikely.
I realize that these locos are mostly decommissioned from road switching and mainly used for dockside marshalling or in small yards, so it's not a major thing. I do however like running it around the layout with a moderate length freight consist.
Thank you Jean for the exploded diagram!


Have you checked the tension on the ground pickup "springs"? the wheels move a little sideways and if the spring does not follow you might lose some contact. You need to remove the wheels in order to inspect them properly. And be careful if you try to tension them.


thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bph
Offline marklinist5999  
#12 Posted : 31 July 2023 23:37:58(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,142
Location: Michigan, Troy
No bph, but I will. Thanks.
Offline cintrans  
#13 Posted : 01 August 2023 00:42:01(UTC)
cintrans

Aruba   
Joined: 11/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 172
Location: Aruba (general), Oranjestad
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: cintrans Go to Quoted Post
My br212 (#37724) does exactly the same thing....
Stops randomly, a small nudge makes it move again....
The 37724 has two powered axles, the 39212 has four powered axles. Or with other word: they have nothing in common.

When the loco stops, but the lights are on, then there could be a problem with the brushes. I saw that with sisters of 37724.
When the loco stops and the lights are out, then there is a contact problem - either with centre-rail or, more likely, with outer rails.


Hi Tom

You'r right, my bad, mine has indeed only two driven axles and apparently also a different motor looking at the posted parts diagram....
In my case, the lights stay on, so it's not a question of loosing connection with the track....
I did clean the motor before to no avail...

Regards

Jean-Pierre
Offline heinrichhess  
#14 Posted : 01 August 2023 03:24:48(UTC)
heinrichhess

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/05/2023(UTC)
Posts: 214
Location: Wales, powys
I had this problem my track 3rd rail was low so pulled up with pliers and i was not cleaning inside slider
cleen.png

hess
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by heinrichhess
Offline marklinist5999  
#15 Posted : 01 August 2023 17:21:15(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,142
Location: Michigan, Troy
I left it on the layout overnight in the basement to allow it to acclimnate to the temp. down there. It ran better this morning.
Offline Goofy  
#16 Posted : 01 August 2023 19:03:24(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,020
Originally Posted by: heinrichhess Go to Quoted Post
I had this problem my track 3rd rail was low so pulled up with pliers and i was not cleaning inside slider
cleen.png

hess


Yes this is one of the problem that is often miss.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.468 seconds.