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Offline kimballthurlow  
#1 Posted : 08 December 2021 03:13:52(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,621
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Actually a review of the Märklin models 39192 and 39193.


But to set the scene here is a 1939 picture of E19 on an express train at Unterloquitz.


The district of Unterloquitz in Thuringia is halfway between Berlin and Munich where this photo was taken in 1939. The electrification of this railway route at 15Kva was in planning for some time though not completed until the 1950s. The picture shows one of the newly built E19 electric engines which at that time was the most powerful single unit of its type in the world. Yes, more powerful than the famous Pennsylvania GG1.

UserPostedImage

The E19 was the progenitor motive power of what was to be an efficient system linking northern and southern Germany. Unfortunately, the war between Germany and other parts of Europe laid waste to the best efforts of the Deutsche Reichsbahn to modernize and indeed lead the world in railway motive power and infrastructure. I am not sure of the provenance of the photograph nor of the copyright owner and apologize if this causes any angst.
I have used this photo as a guide to stage the same (or similar train) on my layout.
The locomotive in my layout photo is Märklin #39193. First car behind the engine is the sleek Gepackwagen which comes from Märklin set #43258. The destination board says Hamburg Altona but let us not quibble. Next comes a few cars from the Märklin set #42751, mostly 3rd class. Then comes a speisewagen from Märklin set #43258 although the light colour roofed vehicle could easily be a schlafwagen (sleeper). This train was at journey’s halfway, so it is most likely the speisewagen.

UserPostedImage

For the next 5-6 weeks, I will be running this train around my layout and admiring the terrific features of the E19 loco which is a sweet runner and has multiple sound effects. The Märklin #39193 is one of the 5 special Museum models issued in the past few years. I am also admiring its place in history and hope one day to see the engine in reality at the DB Museum.
When #39193 was released in 2019 I did not order it, so had to go to some trouble to find what was probably the last one in the world at a Swiss retailer, Amiba. Within 2 weeks it duly arrived which puts to shame the DHL logistics out of Germany which routinely take 4 times longer for some reason.

#39193 is engine number E19 12.
I also have the #39192 in a similar livery, produced by Märklin in 2011 as engine number E19 11.
E19 11 and E19 12 were twins destined to have only 2 siblings - the E19 01 and E19 02 which were built with a similar body but different motor arrangements. All 4 engines worked the same train rosters but by the late 1940s when technology had moved on, the then Deutsche Bundesbahn had new plans and designs for a range of electric locomotives.

UserPostedImage

Comparison between the locomotive models show the mechanical differences as:
1. 39192 has Softdrive Sinus motor driving two axles
2. 39193 has a motor with flywheel driving two axles
3. 39193 has the full range sounds of an electric engine, 39192 has none.
4. 39193 has the latest MFX+ decoder, the 39192 is a first generation MFX.


Cosmetic differences are:
1. Same design pantographs in different colour
2. Front and rear skirts and sandboxes in black on 39192, and in red on 39193 as the museum version.
3. 39192 has buffer housings with manufacturer plaque


Both models have a silver V “vorne” (front) imprinted on both sides of one end, and H “heck” (rear) on the opposite end.
Both have the cast eagle symbol of the Third Reich under the windscreen and between the front lights.
The running number is imprinted in silver in the waist just behind the right-side driver entrance door. The driver stood at the controls for a good view forward. The job of an engine driver in that era was a hard one, though I surmise that this engine would have been more comfortable than a steam engine.

The driving characteristics of both models are the same, very responsive to small throttle movements. The #39193 sounds (the whistle in particular) are operationally satisfying. The MFX+ decoder allows the #39193 to use all the play features of driver cab operation available on the Märklin CS2 and CS3 controllers.

Kimball

Edited by user 08 December 2021 22:57:55(UTC)  | Reason: clariefied the part red colouring

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 08 December 2021 08:44:53(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,245
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
2. Front and rear skirts in black on 39192, and in red on 39193
That's more than just a cosmetic difference: Skirts and sandboxes were black in era II, they are red on the museum machine. So the red skirts and sandboxes clearly mark this loco as the era IV museum machine.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#3 Posted : 08 December 2021 09:32:35(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,621
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Thanks Tom.
I have edited the text to show how those subtle details came about.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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H0
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 08 December 2021 09:46:02(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,245
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
I have edited the text to show how those subtle details came about.
Thanks.
There is more to the story: The locos E 19 01 and E 19 02 had red skirts and sandboxes in era II, but E 19 11 and E 19 12 did not.
When E 19 12 was restored for the museum, they adopted the somewhat incorrect paint scheme from E 19 0x.
E 19.0 have a low bump on the roof, much like E 18. E 19.1 have a big bump on the roof.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline foumaro  
#5 Posted : 08 December 2021 09:55:37(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
I like this locomotive too.I have the 3769 marklin version equipped with esu loksound v4 decoder.I am running her with a train with the marklin cars 43201,43211,43221,43231,43241,43251,43266 and the 42229 set of cars.She is running like a dream.
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Offline marklinist5999  
#6 Posted : 08 December 2021 13:04:04(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,001
Location: Michigan, Troy
The E 18 won the Paris exposition grand prix award in 1930. I have a Roco museum edition in grey with a book and wooden box.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#7 Posted : 08 December 2021 15:21:34(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,056
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post

3. 39193 has the full range sounds of an electric engine, 39192 has none.
4. 39193 has the latest MFX+ decoder, the 39192 is a first generation MFX.


The sound file for the 39193 is available for download, and the 39192 manual shows the decoder as being plug in, so it would be possible to program an msd/3 decoder, change the settings to drive the soft-sinus motor and get sounds on the 39192 just like its brother (sister?).

Oh, and I meant to mention, I liked the prototype photo. ThumpUp
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#8 Posted : 08 December 2021 20:52:43(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,621
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Thank you Tom, Panayotis, 5999, and Alan for contributing.

Tom - yes the E18 did have a different roof arrangement for the dynamic braking cooling, and also had rivited body-work whereas the E19 was welded or hidden rivits like aircraft.

Panayotis - yes as we go back, Märklin make a successful model and they stick with it and as a consequence able to re-issue it as many times as they deem fit.
Each time they add an improvement or two (shall we say an incentive Cool ).
Good luck to them, it suits me!

5999 - yes I have been inside the E18 which is at the Koblenz DB Museum annexe. They must have been impressive machines in 1930.
That is 90 years ago - how time flies!

Alan - thanks for the tip about the decoder. I will probably leave mine as is.
I thought the original photo was a beauty too.

Kimball

Edited by user 30 September 2022 22:32:26(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline marklinist5999  
#9 Posted : 08 December 2021 22:35:07(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,001
Location: Michigan, Troy
Yes, and the E-18 roof elements I think make it look more streamilined. It's got very nice details, and brass color window frames.
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Offline river6109  
#10 Posted : 20 December 2021 07:48:40(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,595
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
My E 18 (118) and E 19 have had an upgrade, 2 from a set 3667 = Beige & Turquoise and silver, 1 Blue Br 118 (3768), 1 Green ( 3767), 1 Red (E 19 = 3769) and 1 Green Austrian (3369), I also have an Austrian Roco Rh 1018.
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#11 Posted : 26 January 2023 00:23:08(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,621
Location: Brisbane, Australia
As a result of some questions posed in another topic, I am reproducing a reply which is relevant to the above review.

Here are 2 photos that are somewhat illustrative of things about which Tom talks knowledgeably.
This is about the differences between E19s and the different paint schemes applied at different times of the E19s life.

Photo 1:
This is an E19.0 of which two were built.
This shows the running livery of E19.02 in 1940.
Märklin does NOT make a model of this engine but the picture is useful because the paint scheme is indicative.
E19.02 in 1940

Photo 2:
This is an E19.1 of which 2 were built.
This shows how E19.12 looked in 1947, in a fairly run down state (after the war) with one pantograph missing.
Märklin does make a model of this engine and its sister E19.11 in various colour schemes including red.
E19.12 in 1947

The picture being black and white does not reveal the colour, but from Philips' reply below it is almost certainly the original red.
BUT it is no longer displaying the spread-eagle on front and sides.

The other topic was about the coaches hauled so here is a link:
Coaches hauled by E19

Kimball

Edited by user 01 February 2023 05:41:52(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline ccranium  
#12 Posted : 26 January 2023 00:58:40(UTC)
ccranium


Joined: 30/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 71
Location: Seattle area
Thanks, Kimball. As a history buff this is great to see and read. It looks like E19's would have been in red, then green livery (at least!) in Era II. Then blue in Eras III & IV, and red (but different) for the museums' restorations in Era IV. Whew!

Where do you find these old images?

Brian
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Offline PJMärklin  
#13 Posted : 26 January 2023 01:46:22(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,197
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
As a result of some questions posed in another topic, I am reproducing a reply which is relevant to the above review.

Here are 2 photos that are somewhat illustrative of things about which Tom talks knowledgeably.
This is about the differences between E19s and the different paint schemes applied at different times of the E19s life.

Photo 1:
This is an E19.0 of which two were built.
This shows the running livery of E19.02 in 1940.
Märklin does NOT make a model of this engine but the picture is useful because the paint scheme is indicative.
E19.02 in 1940

...
Kimball



Hi Kimble,

Thanks for your post and past reviews - all quite interesting.

My copy of photo 1 is from "Die Elektrolokomotiven bei der Deutschen Bundesbahn"

The book is in German language text (but the photos are in EnglishSmile) :


UserPostedImage


The photo is annotated (via google translate) :

"This rare photo from 1941 shows the E 19 02 in the delivery condition in red paintwork and with front aprons In Nuremberg. The front aprons were only removed in 1954, and they only kept the red paintwork until the beginning of 1947. In February 1947 they were painted in the green color that was common for electric locomotives at the time. While the E 1901 had been painted green since the summer of 1945, the E 1911 and 12 retained their original paint scheme until February 1953 and December 1952 respectively. Photo: Hofmeister Collection"

Regards,

Philip
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Offline H0  
#14 Posted : 26 January 2023 09:26:22(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,245
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Märklin does NOT make a model of this engine but the picture is useful because the paint scheme is indicative.
E 19.1 was delivered later and from a different manufacturer.
E 19.1 had black front skirts and black sand boxes in era II while those were red on E 19.0.

Edited by user 26 January 2023 14:01:25(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#15 Posted : 26 January 2023 10:30:53(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,621
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Märklin does NOT make a model of this engine but the picture is useful because the paint scheme is indicative.
E 19.1 was delivered later and from a different manufacturer.
E 19.1 had black front skirts and red sand boxes in era II while those were red on E 19.0.


Hi Tom,
I think you meant black front skirts and black sand boxes for the E19.1.

regards
Kimball


HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
H0
Offline kimballthurlow  
#16 Posted : 26 January 2023 10:35:40(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,621
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: PJMärklin Go to Quoted Post
...


The photo is annotated (via google translate) :

"This rare photo from 1941 shows the E 19 02 in the delivery condition in red paintwork and with front aprons In Nuremberg. The front aprons were only removed in 1954, and they only kept the red paintwork until the beginning of 1947. In February 1947 they were painted in the green color that was common for electric locomotives at the time. While the E 1901 had been painted green since the summer of 1945, the E 1911 and 12 retained their original paint scheme until February 1953 and December 1952 respectively. Photo: Hofmeister Collection"

Regards,

Philip


Hi Philip,
Thanks for your input, very interesting.
And thanks for providing the photo acknowledgment which I was unable to do.

Both E19.1s retained red until the early 50s!!!
From that it appears the black and white photo of E19 12 in 1947 is red!!!
So Märklin have every opportunity to sell even more of these beasts with a different corporate scheme (DB era IIIa).


Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline H0  
#17 Posted : 26 January 2023 14:04:36(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,245
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
So Märklin have every opportunity to sell even more of these beasts with a different corporate scheme (DB era IIIa).
Yeah.
And for era II and era IIIa the upper headlight should be controlled separately and off by default.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#18 Posted : 01 February 2023 05:44:55(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,621
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Below is a post by Tom from another topic relevant to this topic.
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Fleischmann made a model of E 19 12 in red for era III: 391903 is the ref. number for the AC version. No eagle.

GFN_E 19 12 (2).jpg

The loco came with black front skirts, but I decided to remove them.

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#19 Posted : 01 February 2023 05:47:14(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,621
Location: Brisbane, Australia
This post by Eurobahnfan from another topic is relevant:
Originally Posted by: Eurobahnfan Go to Quoted Post
Fleischmann also made an Era II E19 in red, with the eagle, for the Maerklin system around 2001 (#841 911). Equipped with a DCC decoder, it’s a great runner — much more quiet than Maerklin’s 3469/3769 — but doesn’t take too kindly to some of the Maerklin turnouts.
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline river6109  
#20 Posted : 09 February 2023 10:38:33(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,595
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Kimbal, a quick correction for those who collect German loco models, you will find on most of these locos from that era, had the wording: V & H = you've ccorrectly identified the V = Vorne and the H stands for = Hinten,

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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