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Offline artfull dodger  
#1 Posted : 23 January 2023 20:44:36(UTC)
artfull dodger

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Posts: 454
Location: Indiana, Kokomo
What passenger cars from Marklin would be correct behind the red E19 in the late 30's? Thanks Mike

Edited by user 24 January 2023 06:19:08(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 23 January 2023 20:54:45(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,804
Location: DE-NW
The locos were delivered in the second half of 1939 or in 1940, so they didn't haul any trains in the early or mid 1930s.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline ccranium  
#3 Posted : 23 January 2023 23:40:35(UTC)
ccranium


Joined: 30/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 38
Location: Seattle area
Look for coaches from the DR (not the DB) from the late '30's? Also, if you find the lok in a Marklin catalog, many times they have a page illustrating their suggestions for the consist. I looked through my catalog collection and can't find the E19, but I don't have every catalog.
Good luck!
Brian
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Offline marklinist5999  
#4 Posted : 24 January 2023 01:15:55(UTC)
marklinist5999

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Location: Michigan, Troy
Yes, but the early skirtted longer cars would go nicely too, like the later DR, or dark green early DB Adenour set. The DB did use the E 19 in the blue/cream colors for a time. It's in the E19 book by Roco with the museum woode boxed edition grey model. Also came in dark blue. I think also the blue skirted DB cars or Riviera express set perhaps goes well.
Offline ccranium  
#5 Posted : 24 January 2023 03:26:33(UTC)
ccranium


Joined: 30/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 38
Location: Seattle area
When the DB used them weren't they reclassified as E119's? If so, wouldn't the DR coaches look better with the DR's E19 livery?
At the end of the day, it's up to the user regardless!
Offline ccranium  
#6 Posted : 24 January 2023 04:22:26(UTC)
ccranium


Joined: 30/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 38
Location: Seattle area
I must be bored this evening...

The 1997 catalog shows the 3469 (E19 12, in red) connected to the composition of two sets of 42751. Those are each using DR B4i, C4u and Pw4u coaches. I perused the 1989-1999 catalogs and don't see any other of those coaches sold individually (or any other DR longer coaches for that matter).

https://www.marklin.com/...in-details/article/42751

I hope that helps some!
Brian
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H0
Offline applor  
#7 Posted : 24 January 2023 05:26:02(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,574
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: ccranium Go to Quoted Post
When the DB used them weren't they reclassified as E119's? If so, wouldn't the DR coaches look better with the DR's E19 livery?
At the end of the day, it's up to the user regardless!


That did not occur until era 4 which was 1969 when they moved to computer lettering.
The E19 remained labelled as such until then.

The E 19 12 (in steel blue) was photographed with the F-train Gluckauf in 1955 for the DB, it was discussed recently here:
https://www.marklin-user...n-Set-H0---Blauer-Enzian


The red livery was lost I think in 1950, so really you're looking at DR (DRB) wagons. The type 39 schurzenwagen are a good choice.
Other standard express wagons of course would also be suitable, type 23 (pike) type 28 (steel), type 35 (streamlined) in era 2 DRG livery.

Originally Posted by: ccranium Go to Quoted Post
I must be bored this evening...

The 1997 catalog shows the 3469 (E19 12, in red) connected to the composition of two sets of 42751. Those are each using DR B4i, C4u and Pw4u coaches. I perused the 1989-1999 catalogs and don't see any other of those coaches sold individually (or any other DR longer coaches for that matter).

https://www.marklin.com/...in-details/article/42751

I hope that helps some!
Brian


The 42751 set is not suitable because they are DRG livery up to 1937, which the E19 was not yet constructed, so wagons with DR livery are required.

https://www.stummiforum....che-reichsbahn-quot.html
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
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Offline foumaro  
#8 Posted : 24 January 2023 05:41:57(UTC)
foumaro

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Location: Attiki Athens Greece
I am running mine with the consist of 43201,43211,43221,43231,43241,43251,43266 marklin era II cars and marklin 42229 era II set with 4 cars.The locomotive is the marklin 3769 upgraded with esu loksound V4 decoder.
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Offline artfull dodger  
#9 Posted : 24 January 2023 06:18:39(UTC)
artfull dodger

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Location: Indiana, Kokomo
Thanks for the replies. I will have to do some more research.
Silly NT's..I have Asperger's Syndrome!!!!
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Offline H0  
#10 Posted : 24 January 2023 09:38:24(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,804
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
The DB did use the E 19 in the blue/cream colors for a time. It's in the E19 book by Roco with the museum woode boxed edition grey model.
I don't think so. AFAIK the E 19.1 class locos were retired early and did not see the blue/cream livery of the 1970s.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 24 January 2023 09:40:22(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
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Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: ccranium Go to Quoted Post
The 1997 catalog shows the 3469 (E19 12, in red) connected to the composition of two sets of 42751.
Locos 3469/3769 show a museum livery of era IV or V, not the state of era II. Wrong loco if you want an authentic era II train.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline marklinist5999  
#12 Posted : 24 January 2023 13:56:24(UTC)
marklinist5999

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Location: Michigan, Troy
Tom, the photo is a 1960's blue/cream livery, and was under restoration for the DB museum.
Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 24 January 2023 14:19:21(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,804
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Tom, the photo is a 1960's blue/cream livery, and was under restoration for the DB museum.
Do you have a link? Are you sure it was an E 19 (only four units built)? Märklin only make E 19.1 (only two units built).

The locos for the 1962 Rheingold were class E 10.12, not class E 19.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline marklinist5999  
#14 Posted : 24 January 2023 14:35:30(UTC)
marklinist5999

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Location: Michigan, Troy
Sorry, you're correct Tom. I'm looking in the book now. #E 18 08, or E 110 #1, 2,5,6,08,09, and 18.
Offline Marklineisenbahn  
#15 Posted : 24 January 2023 21:01:16(UTC)
Marklineisenbahn

United States   
Joined: 14/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 144
Location: New York City
Hallo Dreileiters,
I am running Märklin Insider Hecht cars ( part of BR06 package ) They have prototypical DRG colors from 1940 so they looks pretty good with DRG Red Electric and those Reich Eagles are quite nicely reproduced on the side of the wagons ( similar to huge one on from of electric locomotive) Factory interior lights and passengers are great bonus too.
Hope this will help

Regards,
Märklineisenbahn
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Offline applor  
#16 Posted : 24 January 2023 22:01:35(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,574
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Yes, the 42665 pike set is a good choice
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
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Offline ccranium  
#17 Posted : 24 January 2023 22:42:58(UTC)
ccranium


Joined: 30/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 38
Location: Seattle area
2023-01-24.png
The 3469's prototype seems to be E19 12 in the 1995 catalog. '96 and '97 are the same.
3769 is also E19 12
39192 is E19 11
All three were/are sold in the red ERA II livery from their 1938 prototype's introduction into service.
37691 is E19 12 and was/is sold in the blue ERA III livery.

So I suppose it depends on which model one buys to determine Era-correct coaches.
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Offline H0  
#18 Posted : 24 January 2023 22:49:26(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,804
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: ccranium Go to Quoted Post
The 3469's prototype seems to be E19 12 in the 1995 catalog. '96 and '97 are the same.
3769 is also E19 12
39192 is E19 11
All three were/are sold in the red ERA II livery from their 1938 prototype's introduction into service.
39192 has era II livery while 3469/3769 have era IV/V museum livery.
E 19 11 was delivered in 1939, E 19 12 was delivered in 1940.

39193 looks much like 3469/3769. Märklin indicate era II and era VI, but the loco didn't look like that in era II. It is E 19 12.

Originally Posted by: ccranium Go to Quoted Post
So I suppose it depends on which model one buys to determine Era-correct coaches.
Depends on how critical you are about being "Era-correct".
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Dave Banks  
#19 Posted : 25 January 2023 03:05:26(UTC)
Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 973
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Have a look at this in depth discussion way back: https://www.marklin-users.net/fo...st-for-Br-E19-Reichsbahn
D.A.Banks
Offline kimballthurlow  
#20 Posted : 25 January 2023 06:04:01(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,420
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
...

The 42751 set is not suitable because they are DRG livery up to 1937, which the E19 was not yet constructed, so wagons with DR livery are required.

https://www.stummiforum....che-reichsbahn-quot.html


Hello Eric,

Thanks for your reply which is very helpful to all.

The Deutsche Reichsbahn Gesellschaft (DRG, a private corporation established 1920) carried colour schemes, lettering and insignia which are familiar to most, including the roundal lettering with Prussian eagle.
Is there any evidence that this livery was not carried on some rolling stock from say 1938 to the end of the European war of 1939-45?
In 1938 the corporation became wholly subject to the German Government politically as the Deutsche Reichsbahn (DRB) and then colour schemes, lettering and insignia were altered.
The carry-over of old livery may well have lasted 6 years, depending on the importance and age of the rolling stock.

In my model consists the old pre-1938 roundal liveried stock mixes without guilt with the 1938 DRB liveried stock.
I guess it is each to their own.

After May 1945, the occupying forces of Germany would have quite quickly erased the ensignia of both the Deutsche Reichsbahn liveries.
I can imagine after 1948 that no traces would be found, except on goods wagons where there was less likelihood of political publicity or implications.

Kimball

Edited by user 25 January 2023 22:02:23(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline foumaro  
#21 Posted : 25 January 2023 11:33:30(UTC)
foumaro

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Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
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Location: Attiki Athens Greece
Anyway it is just a game,a perfect way to spend our free time,we do not need to be dogmatic,just my opinion.
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Offline H0  
#22 Posted : 25 January 2023 11:44:45(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,804
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: foumaro Go to Quoted Post
Anyway it is just a game,a perfect way to spend our free time,we do not need to be dogmatic,just my opinion.
This thread is about "correct" coaches for a red E 19, without pointing out which red E 19.
We just point out which coaches would be authentic. Then people can still decide about compromises they will take. This is not dogmatic and everybody decides how pedantic they make their choice.

BTW: I bought a red E 19 in era III livery because I prefer that time frame.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Mark5  
#23 Posted : 25 January 2023 19:14:18(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,317
Location: Montreal, Canada
Thanks for keeping it real Tom,
I was not aware that a red E 19 existed in era III livery. That sounds exciting.
What model number did you get and when did it run, and if you know, what routes?
Cheers,
Mark

Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: foumaro Go to Quoted Post
....
BTW: I bought a red E 19 in era III livery because I prefer that time frame.




DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1955-65, fan of V200, electrics and steam, so hard to narrow down...
...signaling systems, yard traffic and shunting, Sommerfeldt catenary,
and station architecture (esp. stations from 1920-70).
In process: a new modular layout, track planning and drawing benchwork.
Email anytime or chat live: https://discord.gg/jAEKyTWQPQ
Offline Mark5  
#24 Posted : 25 January 2023 19:25:13(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,317
Location: Montreal, Canada
Agree Foumaro, that we can obsessive about detail, but honestly that is one of the things I like about the game of history and its context. That said, I can appreciate any man or woman who enjoys the trains, and always curious what they mean both personally to them and what they can mean when we bring it forward into community.

We have great memories of bringing our layout to shows and seeing the thrill of both adults and children who had never seen a train run on catenary and with semaphore signals in operation. That was a leap forward for anyone not previously exposed to them. We had a way of getting any kids to "run" the trains just by deciding when it would make its stop at any of three signals along the route. Some adults and history buffs would engage us with all kinds of curious questions, and that was what gave us the joy.

Originally Posted by: foumaro Go to Quoted Post
Anyway it is just a game,a perfect way to spend our free time,we do not need to be dogmatic,just my opinion.


DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1955-65, fan of V200, electrics and steam, so hard to narrow down...
...signaling systems, yard traffic and shunting, Sommerfeldt catenary,
and station architecture (esp. stations from 1920-70).
In process: a new modular layout, track planning and drawing benchwork.
Email anytime or chat live: https://discord.gg/jAEKyTWQPQ
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#25 Posted : 25 January 2023 20:06:19(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,395
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
I guess another set of cars that could be considered for this loco is the Insider car set for the Br01.10 Insider 2023 first loco.

Offline ccranium  
#26 Posted : 25 January 2023 23:29:46(UTC)
ccranium


Joined: 30/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 38
Location: Seattle area
Hi all,
I'm finding this thread fascinating because I'm learning a lot about history and about various sources of information. I'm curious about the livery differences being described, in particular Tom's "museum livery" references and Marklin's and Wikipedia's references to "burgundy", red, and "red wine". How are they different (if they are)? Why would the museums restoring the 2 E19 survivors use a non-original livery (if they did)? I've noodled around out of curiosity and can't find any color images from 1938~1940, so I'm wondering what other source materials are out there for relatively new members to use for research of other historical questions.
Thanks for the help!
Brian
Offline kimballthurlow  
#27 Posted : 26 January 2023 00:16:12(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,420
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hello Brian,
Thanks for your interest.
It is great to hear about other peoples perspectives.

Can I start the ball rolling on this with 2 photos that are somewhat illustrative of things about which Tom talks knowledgeably.
This is about the differences between E19s and the different paint schemes applied at different times of the E19s life.

Photo 1:
This is an E19.0 of which two were built.
This shows the running livery of E19.02 in 1940.
Märklin does NOT make a model of this engine but the picture is useful because the paint scheme is indicative.
E19.02 in 1940

Photo 2:
This is an E19.1 of which 2 were built.
This shows how E19.12 looked in 1947, in a fairly run down state (after the war) with one pantograph missing.
Märklin does make a model of this engine and its sister E19.11 in various colour schemes including red.
E19.12 in 1947

The picture being black and white does not reveal the colour, but as shown in Philips reply below it was red until 1953.
This topic was really about the coaches hauled.
Can I point you to another forum topic on this theme which gives further descriptions:
E19 review

Kimball

Edited by user 29 January 2023 23:03:31(UTC)  | Reason: the colour of E19.12 till 1953

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline dickinsonj  
#28 Posted : 26 January 2023 01:20:47(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,575
Location: United States
I have the red museum E19 (39193) and I found a new 42356 Insider D12 Berlin - Stuttgart coach set for it to haul. The loco color is probably an era mismatch but I am flexible on that stuff.

These are beautiful coaches and they have become a favorite on my track. In reading about the history of the D12 I learned that it was sometimes hauled by E19s and I decided that was close enough. I added LED lighting and CC couplers to the coaches and with that pretty E19 out in front, it make a very handsome train.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline PJMärklin  
#29 Posted : 26 January 2023 01:52:33(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,134
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Hello Brian,
Thanks for your interest.
It is great to hear about other peoples perspectives.

Can I start the ball rolling on this with 2 photos that are somewhat illustrative of things about which Tom talks knowledgeably.
This is about the differences between E19s and the different paint schemes applied at different times of the E19s life.

Photo 1:
This is an E19.0 of which two were built.
This shows the running livery of E19.02 in 1940.
Märklin does NOT make a model of this engine but the picture is useful because the paint scheme is indicative.
E19.02 in 1940

...

Kimball




Hi Kimble,

I copy here my response to your reproduced post in another thread.


My copy of photo 1 is from "Die Elektrolokomotiven bei der Deutschen Bundesbahn"

The book is in German language text (but the photos are in EnglishSmile) :


UserPostedImage


The photo is annotated (via google translate) :

"This rare photo from 1941 shows the E 19 02 in the delivery condition in red paintwork and with front aprons In Nuremberg. The front aprons were only removed in 1954, and they only kept the red paintwork until the beginning of 1947. In February 1947 they were painted in the green color that was common for electric locomotives at the time. While the E 1901 had been painted green since the summer of 1945, the E 1911 and 12 retained their original paint scheme until February 1953 and December 1952 respectively. Photo: Hofmeister Collection"

Regards,

Philip
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Offline H0  
#30 Posted : 26 January 2023 09:24:25(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,804
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: ccranium Go to Quoted Post
Why would the museums restoring the 2 E19 survivors use a non-original livery (if they did)?
Maybe lack of accurate information.
E 19.0 were delivered with red front skirts and red sandboxes.
E 19.1 were delivered with black front skirts and black sandboxes.

It seems they "restored" the red E 19.1 based on colour photos of the E 19.0. Nice try, but not the real state of era II.

I think they were all "weinrot" (wine-red), but maybe there are different translations of this colour.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline applor  
#31 Posted : 29 January 2023 22:18:39(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,574
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
I guess another set of cars that could be considered for this loco is the Insider car set for the Br01.10 Insider 2023 first loco.



Now that we have confirmed the red livery existed on the E19 12 until Dec 1952, yes they are an excellent option.
Therefore in fact any of the early era3a wagons (ie. no m-wagons) would be suitable, of which there are many (just no type 35 or 39Crying )

Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
I have the red museum E19 (39193) and I found a new 42356 Insider D12 Berlin - Stuttgart coach set for it to haul.


I think you have the wrong catalogue number here, 42356 is "Odenwald Lieschen" passenger wagon set.
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
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Offline dickinsonj  
#32 Posted : 30 January 2023 00:54:15(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,575
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
I think you have the wrong catalogue number here, 42356 is "Odenwald Lieschen" passenger wagon set.


Indeed I do - I intended to say 43256 D12 coach set.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline Mark5  
#33 Posted : 31 January 2023 06:53:19(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,317
Location: Montreal, Canada
Hello Kimball,
Both you and Tom mention that Marklin made a model of the E19 with Era III livery in RED...I would love to know what the Marklin model number is and what kind of coaches an Era III Red E19 would have pulled. Some of the same I would guess, but it would be really interesting to see other prototypical photos if there are any around, to see more coaches or if there are other documents that might indicate what was pulled.
Thanks for the informative posts ALL!!

Someone doing a bit of weathering on their model without one panto would be bold.
- Mark

Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post

Photo 1:
This is an E19.0 of which two were built....
[photo above]

Photo 2:
This is an E19.1 of which 2 were built.
This shows how E19.12 looked in 1947, in a fairly run down state (after the war) with one pantograph missing.
Märklin does make a model of this engine and its sister E19.11 in various colour schemes including red.
E19.12 in 1947

The picture being black and white does not reveal the colour, but as shown in Philips reply below it was red until 1953.
This topic was really about the coaches hauled.
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1955-65, fan of V200, electrics and steam, so hard to narrow down...
...signaling systems, yard traffic and shunting, Sommerfeldt catenary,
and station architecture (esp. stations from 1920-70).
In process: a new modular layout, track planning and drawing benchwork.
Email anytime or chat live: https://discord.gg/jAEKyTWQPQ
Offline kimballthurlow  
#34 Posted : 31 January 2023 11:16:11(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,420
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: Mark5 Go to Quoted Post
Hello Kimball,
Both you and Tom mention that Marklin made a model of the E19 with Era III livery in RED...I would love to know what the Marklin model number is and what kind of coaches an Era III Red E19 would have pulled. Some of the same I would guess, but it would be really interesting to see other prototypical photos if there are any around, to see more coaches or if there are other documents that might indicate what was pulled.
Thanks for the informative posts ALL!!

Someone doing a bit of weathering on their model without one panto would be bold.
- Mark

Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post

……..The picture being black and white does not reveal the colour, but as shown in Philips reply below it was red until 1953.
This topic was really about the coaches hauled.

Hello Mark,
The model numbers of the recent issue red E19 are 39192 and 39193. I believe all the red E19s made by Märklin had the same detail with the eagle ensignia. So no red model was made for era III.

To suit early era III it might be better to remove the eagle insignia. This would have been taken off quickly after May 1945 by the occupying forces charged with running the railways. How quickly is now something unknown. Of course you can ignore that - it is your model railway.

For the cars KiwiAlan and applor have given some nice recommendations above. So you could choose any era III cars that did not have the DB biscuit symbol on the sides. That symbol did not appear till 1956.

I hope that is a start for you.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline H0  
#35 Posted : 31 January 2023 11:27:51(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,804
Location: DE-NW
Fleischmann made a model of E 19 12 in red for era III: 391903 is the ref. number for the AC version. No eagle.

GFN_E 19 12 (2).jpg

The loco came with black front skirts, but I decided to remove them.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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