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Offline mike c  
#1 Posted : 10 November 2022 07:00:49(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,546
Location: Montreal, QC


Here is the first video of the final prototype of the RABe 501 Giruno. The production model should be in stores very soon.
The Maerklin model (base set) should be available in around a month's time.

Regards

Mike C

Edited by user 11 November 2022 02:09:29(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline mario54i  
#2 Posted : 10 November 2022 12:32:21(UTC)
mario54i

Italy   
Joined: 28/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 266
Location: Torino,
I saw it live in Friedrichshafen (where this video was taken), it runs smooth and silent. The Märklin one was displayed in a showcase, only one half.
BTW, no Märklin Ae3/6 displayed
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Online marklinist5999  
#3 Posted : 10 November 2022 13:50:42(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2,051
Location: Michigan, Troy
Both versions are excellent imho! I think only subtle differences. The Piko only comes as an 11 unit train, and the msrp is nearly 1,700 euros. Too long for my layout I think. I reserved the Marklin last January, but I expect it to be late, as model releases have been lately. That's fine, as I had abdominal surgery in September, and the insurance co pay cost us almost $5,00 U.S.
Perhaps I may order one supplimental car set later.
Someone told me the intital release is only for Switzeraldn for the Piko?? I viwed an Instagram story from Carerra modelismo in Chaisso, and they have it.
Offline mike c  
#4 Posted : 11 November 2022 02:04:43(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,546
Location: Montreal, QC
I preordered the Piko (Arwico) model when it was announced. The price at the time was 1490 CHF for the AC version.
I have the Maerklin model on order as well. I ordered the base set plus the three additional sets. Total cost of the Maerklin version w/o VAT was just over 1000 EUR.

Regards

Mike C
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Online marklinist5999  
#5 Posted : 11 November 2022 13:42:33(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2,051
Location: Michigan, Troy
My early intro reservation price is 719 euros for the Marklin 5 unit train 39810. Thats $740 U.S. The lowest price I found stateside was $818. Even if shipping rates have doubled, still a good value.
Online marklinist5999  
#6 Posted : 11 November 2022 18:35:34(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2,051
Location: Michigan, Troy
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_pA2nhN7l8

Here is the first video of the final prototype of the RABe 501 Giruno. The production model should be in stores very soon.
The Maerklin model (base set) should be available in around a month's time.

Regards

Mike C
P.S., Lippe shop told me January for the Marklin.
regards, Mike.
Offline mike c  
#7 Posted : 12 November 2022 18:20:48(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,546
Location: Montreal, QC
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Offline mbarreto  
#8 Posted : 15 November 2022 11:57:44(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,076
Another video of the Piko:


Mostly Märklin H0.


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Online marklinist5999  
#9 Posted : 15 November 2022 12:57:53(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2,051
Location: Michigan, Troy
Judging by pics by Marklin, it too looks to have lighted seating/destination signs on the doors. I don't know about the opening nose for multi-unit couplings. I wonder what the red marker light behing the lower windshield is for?
Offline mike c  
#10 Posted : 16 November 2022 05:51:10(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,546
Location: Montreal, QC
new videos (Presentation and Unboxing) from Arwico (Piko)




Regards

Mike C
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Offline mbarreto  
#11 Posted : 22 November 2022 22:35:47(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,076
Hello,

I found in Youtube a video with a preproduction unit of the Märklin Giruno:



It seems to run smooth, but I don't know if it is running at top speed.
I would like to see it at higher speed.

Regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


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Online marklinist5999  
#12 Posted : 23 November 2022 14:26:40(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2,051
Location: Michigan, Troy
As my steepest grade is more than 3%, I will see how it handles it with a 5 unit consist before ordering a supplimental car set. My ICE 3 slows by 2/3 speed on it with a 5 unit train.
It is supposed to pull/push an 8 unit.
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Offline river6109  
#13 Posted : 24 November 2022 00:34:45(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,123
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Hornby OO bought out the Flying Scotsman with 6 different versions with the following road numbers 1472, (4472 = 2 tender), 4472, (4472 =Alan Pegler), 103, 60103 at £ 362.99, there is one with a second tender for £ 379.99, if you buy all 6 versions it will set you back to a total of £ 2194.94 and if you want them shipped to Australia most probably another £ 100.00 on postage., it wouldn't be asking too much for a Christmas present, would it be ?
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline mike c  
#14 Posted : 24 November 2022 05:47:04(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,546
Location: Montreal, QC
John, what does a Flying Scotsman have to do with this topic?

Regards

Mike C
Offline mbarreto  
#15 Posted : 24 November 2022 11:22:03(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,076
Mike,

I am curious in know which Giruno (Piko or Märklin) will have a more powerfull motor so
it will have better results in terms of higher speed and more capable of hold speed when climbing a decent gradient.

Of course, gear ratio and weight will also have their own effect in the outcome.

If when you have both you can do a comparison, it would be very good!
I am almost convinced to order the Märklin as it is cheaper if I don't want the full train, it has controllable pantographs, I don't have to order it from a Swiss dealer and I like Märklin :-)

Regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


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Offline kiwiAlan  
#16 Posted : 24 November 2022 13:47:22(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,401
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Looking at the unpacking video for the Piko one it looks like they were going to do it as a 5 piece plus addon sets, then decided to package it all together.

I wonder if later versions will be done as split sets as Marklin are doing.
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Online marklinist5999  
#17 Posted : 24 November 2022 16:04:08(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2,051
Location: Michigan, Troy
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post
Mike,

I am curious in know which Giruno (Piko or Märklin) will have a more powerfull motor so
it will have better results in terms of higher speed and more capable of hold speed when climbing a decent gradient.

Of course, gear ratio and weight will also have their own effect in the outcome.

If when you have both you can do a comparison, it would be very good!
I am almost convinced to order the Märklin as it is cheaper if I don't want the full train, it has controllable pantographs, I don't have to order it from a Swiss dealer and I like Märklin :-)

Regards,
Miguel

An expensive test to buy both, but I bet they are so similar in performance because both have can motors, and cardan shaft drive. I'm sure that both Piko and Marklin engineered the gearing to scale.
I think the Piko ho ICE 4 has two motors, but in my experience with models like the original Marklin ICE which had two Faulhaber motors, and running both my br 610 and 612 railcars in a tandem consist, there is little difference in pulling ability. Two motors drawing amperage together lowers available power, speed, and torque. They may be able to pull more weight, but not as fast. The amperage needle rises by half way more to voltage my analog transformer. More amperage draw, lower voltage output.
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Offline mbarreto  
#18 Posted : 24 November 2022 19:43:57(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,076
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post

...
I think the Piko ho ICE 4 has two motors, but in my experience with models like the original Marklin ICE which had two Faulhaber motors, and running both my br 610 and 612 railcars in a tandem consist, there is little difference in pulling ability. Two motors drawing amperage together lowers available power, speed, and torque. They may be able to pull more weight, but not as fast. The amperage needle rises by half way more to voltage my analog transformer. More amperage draw, lower voltage output.
...


With 2 motors there will also be more power available for avoid speed reduction when going up.
Load regulation also helps keep the speed constant independent of gradient, but only if the motor is powerful enough.


Regards,
Miguel


Mostly Märklin H0.


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Offline mike c  
#19 Posted : 25 November 2022 01:37:21(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,546
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post
Mike,

I am curious in know which Giruno (Piko or Märklin) will have a more powerfull motor so
it will have better results in terms of higher speed and more capable of hold speed when climbing a decent gradient.

Of course, gear ratio and weight will also have their own effect in the outcome.

If when you have both you can do a comparison, it would be very good!
I am almost convinced to order the Märklin as it is cheaper if I don't want the full train, it has controllable pantographs, I don't have to order it from a Swiss dealer and I like Märklin :-)

Regards,
Miguel


I have ordered both. The Piko should be released any day now and the Maerklin base set is still listed for December.

I will post a comparison review once both models are in my hands.

Regards

Mike C

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Offline mike c  
#20 Posted : 25 November 2022 01:45:08(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,546
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Looking at the unpacking video for the Piko one it looks like they were going to do it as a 5 piece plus addon sets, then decided to package it all together.

I wonder if later versions will be done as split sets as Marklin are doing.


The Arwico/Piko "Ceneri" edition is sold as an 11 piece set. The main version will be available later (2023/24) and will be a more basic version, without built-in lighting and may come in form of a base set and one or two add-on sets.

The Unboxing video shows the box containing the main part with both pilot coaches, the restaurant and two additional coaches. The train cannot prototypically be assembled with just the coaches in the main part. The Maerklin set includes the two pilot coaches plus the restaurant and adjacent coaches. The Maerklin add-on set include the coaches that go between the core and each of the pilot coaches.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline mike c  
#21 Posted : 07 December 2022 02:55:43(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,546
Location: Montreal, QC
Zuba Tech demonstration video of Piko's Giruno:


Regards

Mike C
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Offline Rajnish  
#22 Posted : 08 December 2022 20:31:35(UTC)
Rajnish


Joined: 31/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 76
Location: Singapore, Singapore
There is a discussion on the Swiss Model Railways Facebook group for ARWICO / PIKO Giruno that PIKO is supplying the loco bodies to Marklin for their Giruno. If this information is correct then it appears to be an interesting collaboration between the two companies.
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Offline mike c  
#23 Posted : 09 December 2022 01:14:02(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,546
Location: Montreal, QC
Given the differences in photos of the models from the two manufacturers, I am going to say that this is likely full of crap.

Compare the photos in Post 7 with any photos of the Piko model to know.

1) The Maerklin model does not have a removable nose and NEM socket for coupling a second trainset
2) The Piko model does not have digitally controlled pantographs
3) Since Maerklin is putting out a DC version under Trix and Piko has an AC model, this is not likely to be a joint venture

Maerklin: https://static.maerklin....c61bd6be5e1665036007.jpg
Piko:
https://www.bahnonline.c...ri-2020_Arwico_11-22.jpg
https://modellbahn-schwe...ads/2022/12/Giruno-4.jpg

Best regards

Mike C
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Offline river6109  
#24 Posted : 09 December 2022 02:03:15(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,123
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
John, what does a Flying Scotsman have to do with this topic?

Regards

Mike C


It suppose to be a new post

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Rajnish  
#25 Posted : 09 December 2022 08:20:40(UTC)
Rajnish


Joined: 31/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 76
Location: Singapore, Singapore
Mike Each of the companies are still using their unique electronics and electro mechanical systems. Building the moulds for a new multi-unit train is expensive and time consuming.

J am still not ruling it out that there is collaboration between the two companies. We will know in due course once we have both the models in hand to do a side by side comparison.
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Offline mike c  
#26 Posted : 09 December 2022 17:27:40(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,546
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: Rajnish Go to Quoted Post
Mike Each of the companies are still using their unique electronics and electro mechanical systems. Building the moulds for a new multi-unit train is expensive and time consuming.

J am still not ruling it out that there is collaboration between the two companies. We will know in due course once we have both the models in hand to do a side by side comparison.


Rajnish,

Note the end of the chassis:
Piko: https://www.suter-meggen...ailbilder/05.97230.9.JPG
Maerklin: https://static.maerklin....5e764758341664366409.jpg

I rest my case

Regards

Mike C
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Online marklinist5999  
#27 Posted : 13 December 2022 16:32:19(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2,051
Location: Michigan, Troy
Marklin has changed the delivery date of it's 39810 Giruno from December to January.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#28 Posted : 13 December 2022 20:20:26(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,401
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Marklin has changed the delivery date of it's 39810 Giruno from December to January.


That is not surprising, they haven't yet delivered the 39771 Insider 2 loco that was due in November, although the first wagon sets for it which were also due in November have started to appear in the last week.
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Offline vilithejou  
#29 Posted : 13 December 2022 21:07:51(UTC)
vilithejou


Joined: 17/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 818
Location: Vic, Barcelona
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Marklin has changed the delivery date of it's 39810 Giruno from December to January.


That is not surprising, they haven't yet delivered the 39771 Insider 2 loco that was due in November, although the first wagon sets for it which were also due in November have started to appear in the last week.



I have the second lok and their pair freight car



Joan Vilarrúbia
vilithejou@yahoo.es
Fan of Märklín, Kroko lover
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#30 Posted : 13 December 2022 21:17:43(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,401
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: vilithejou Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

That is not surprising, they haven't yet delivered the 39771 Insider 2 loco that was due in November, although the first wagon sets for it which were also due in November have started to appear in the last week.


I have the second lok and their pair freight car


ooh, lucky you BigGrin , you must have only just unpacked the loco. Of several shops that show it on their catalogue, all show it as not yet delivered, although they show the wagonset as delivered.

The other item I am awaiting is the 46415 regional MHI wagon, but that doesn't seem to be delivered yet either.

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Offline mike c  
#31 Posted : 25 December 2022 00:16:32(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,546
Location: Montreal, QC

A quick video on my improvised teppichbahn

I have to see if I can reduce the slider noise.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline mbarreto  
#32 Posted : 03 February 2023 17:45:50(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,076
The real thing simplified datasheet (text in german): Stadler simplified Giruno datasheet
Mostly Märklin H0.


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