Joined: 04/01/2016(UTC) Posts: 114 Location: California, warner Springs
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is the Marklin z scale catenary fully functional like the HO system? making it possible to run two trains independent on same track:))) any special concerns if it is?
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Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC) Posts: 495 Location: Oakville, Ontario
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Z scale catenary is fully functional. I have a Crocodile (8856) that has a small screw head in the roof to switch from wheel to pantograph pickup. Other than that I can't comment on special concerns.
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 2 users liked this useful post by Crazy Harry
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Joined: 07/09/2012(UTC) Posts: 67 Location: Sydney
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Hello Thomas,
When I was running analogue I ran a diesel Loc and an electric Loc on the same track independently by using the catenary without any major issues. The only fine tuning I did was with the catenary wire. On the tighter corners I slightly bent the wire to follow the angle of the corner to prevent the pantograph from slipping off it.
Cheers,
Wal
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 1 user liked this useful post by Wal
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Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,588 Location: Australia
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Cripes!  H0 scale catenary is fiddly - Z must be a nightmare to set up.. |
Adrian Australia flag by abFlags.com |
 2 users liked this useful post by xxup
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Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC) Posts: 783 Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
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Last night I tried to find a video of it in operation. No dice.
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I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning . |
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Joined: 22/01/2014(UTC) Posts: 186 Location: CALIFORNIA, Irvine
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Originally Posted by: analogmike  Last night I tried to find a video of it in operation. No dice.
Even though I don't speak German, I do know enough to get around in z scale. Search "spur z oberleitung" at YouTube and the first hit is here: And in z scale, many times the catenary is more reliable than electrical pickup through the wheels. The wheels can accumulate grime and then end up cutting out the electricity. This can, of course, be fixed with routine maintenance, but the overhead catenary does not need this maintenance. :) |
Frank Daniels Owner - z.scale.hobo A Noch "Top Dealer" Marklin Dealer and Z Locomotive Service Irvine, California, USA www.zscalehobo.com |
 2 users liked this useful post by zscalehobo
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Joined: 31/05/2018(UTC) Posts: 62 Location: Arvada
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By any chance, do you know how to make catenary work with installed block signal #89391, so that if my electric locomotive gets power from the catenary, it will also be able to stop and start when I activate the block signal?
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Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC) Posts: 635 Location: Sydney
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First point. If you are doing block sections then you need everything on the same set of blocks. So why not use one of the rails. You could then incorporate a secondary feed (catenary) into the set of block sections to run those locos at, say a different speed, but still function within the one set of block sections. But, is it really worth all the extra wiring. More than likely not. If you want to run locos via catenary it is the same wiring as with a rail just 37mm higher! That's the only difference. It is very simple to do block sections. No point having less than 3 block section. If you want to do it automatically used the Marklin 8599 rail switch (or you could wire in a beam across the track). You can easily add overriding momentary switches on your control panel for each block section. When the loco goes over the 8599 it briefly closes a circuit. This circuit you wire to a latching relay to "open" the circuit of the previous block and also to "close" the circuit of the latching relay for the block before that block section. You need a latching relay for each of the block sections. So if you have 7 block sections, you need 7 latching relays. The opening and closing you wire to chase around the loop, easy. I have set my mine up as effectively plug & play. If a relay were to fail (not likely) I simply plug a new one into a 16pin IC seat. The latching relay I used is double pole double throw, so very easy to wire in both open circuit for previous block section and closed for the block section before that, easy.  This wiring may look complex on the surface. But the only complexity is to make it simple. So if a switch or relay fails, I can simply plug in a new generic unit. All switch wiring is exactly the same. Each of the 1 to 8 switches are exactly the same. A have spares made up.  Knock up a 3 block section test loop to get your head around the wiring. You will eventually see the simplicity. Then whether you have 3 blocks or dozens, it will make sense, be patient, but you will get there.
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 3 users liked this useful post by Toosmall
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Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC) Posts: 635 Location: Sydney
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Wiring diagrams can really be confusing.
Set up test loop with 3 block sections.
To bypass the wiring diagram "problem", supply power to the 3 Markin 8599 momentary switches.
Let us assume that you are going in one direction only. (I have done a circuit for a bidirectional block section through a station, but that is getting painful to put it mildly).
From the forward contact of the momentary 8599 run a wire to the previous block section relay to "open" that relay (turn off power to the rail). Continue the wire to the relay before that block section to "close" that relay (to turn on power to the rail)
The open or closed relay power side of the relay then supplies power according, to one of the rails (or catenary if you wish).
Once you get 3 block sections working on a test loop it will make sense. Then add as many block sections as you need. But until you get your head around it just test with 3 blocks at first.
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 1 user liked this useful post by Toosmall
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Joined: 22/07/2022(UTC) Posts: 62 Location: New South Wales, Sydney
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Is there any software that lets you design track with Märklin miniclub Z scale catenary ? I am using AnyRail 6 which does not have catenary.
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Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC) Posts: 635 Location: Sydney
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Use butcher's paper. I actually do 3d architectural models. At the scale of Z gauge you will get better sense of the entire layout pencilling it out to size, & fit in roads, buildings & growies while at it. Once you have ironed out most things. Create a master plan tracing onto drafting transparent drawing paper, say A0 sheets or A3 if that is all you can get & sticky tape together. It's not absolutely necessary but it is more stable for long term. Laying carbon paper on you base board & tracing over the top is the simplest way to transfer all the dimensions. To draw radiuses use a long piece of cardboard strip or whatever, push a couple of holes through at the correct distance to do pivot point & radius & push pencil through. My mainline only, track only fly-through: Flythrough.mov (1,380kb) downloaded 115 time(s).This architectural render apart from building it in 3d took 6 dual CPU computers 3 weeks to render the frames in 2009. It would be quicker today but people would expect more resolution & better looking leafs on the growies. Flythrough_055949.mov (9,004kb) downloaded 45 time(s).There is the fixed & adjustable length catenary. Where you can on parallel radius track put the fixed catenary on the outside & shorten the adjustable piece. It is more stable than lengthening it. Ok you use a few more pieces but it is worth the few extra dollars. It's easy enough to calculate the number of pieces for any radius. If you have the room I would have some track where you can load trains onto the track then push the loco under the catenary. Putting trains on the track directly under catenary is a pain. Taking carriages off is also a longer process unless you flix them off sideways.
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 3 users liked this useful post by Toosmall
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Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC) Posts: 842 Location: West Texas
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Hello, hope all is well. Catenary setup and operation seems like a somewhat neglected topic in Z. There are some who set it up for looks without the intention of actually using it,but it is easy to understand the potential for reliable operation, once it is properly installed. Catenary sets are expensive and one set might not meet the needs for your entire layout. Other vendors make catenary for z scale, but the German sources are also expensive and are more prototypical in appearance. A track planning guide was recently mentioned in one of the topics posted here. Page 52 begins the short description of catenary. Just search recent posts if you want to review this document. I am not aware of an extensive manual for catenary setup, but I imagine, the same principles of setup which are found in HO guides would apply to Z. Further research may lead to an answer to the many questions we have. I also found the instructions included with the two different catenary sets which are available from Marklin. 8198-8199-8914-8921-8926-8927.pdf (1,157kb) downloaded 103 time(s).. I checked with a track planning software which I am aware of called SCARM. The description does not mention the topic of catenary in Z scale, but may in fact be supported. Hope this helps a bit. Take good care. Dwight
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 1 user liked this useful post by Zme
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Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC) Posts: 635 Location: Sydney
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 3 users liked this useful post by Toosmall
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Joined: 22/07/2022(UTC) Posts: 62 Location: New South Wales, Sydney
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Thanks for all your feedback. After some searching, the track design software, in AnyRail in particular, wasn't built-in as catenary requires a lot of fiddling and tweaks - even in the real world. So I'll take TooSmall's approach and design on paper. This requires having a few physical parts to design with. Before I make the purchase, I have some catenary pieces that I manually moved around the layout, eye-balled, and penciled in to get an idea of how many pieces I would need to order. I'll order a few extra for contingency. The blue pen is track, the gray pencil is catenary.  This pencil layout was then transferred into AnyRail, I've also made the straights longer.  It allows for the train to automatically run from the inner to outer loop and vice versa. Works in both directions. Max train length would be about 400mm so that there is no potential derailment when the points are switched. I've marked catenary masts in by hand. I've also marked the wiring with the coloured lines. The brown rectangles will be the baseboard support beams. And here is a mock-up of what the curved turnout section would look like: BTW: I'm a beginner, just starting a small diorama with working track/switch/section. This catenary layout you see is something to play with/learn about whilst making the diorama - parts will be re-purposed once I get to making a proper layout.Edited by user 15 November 2022 07:52:05(UTC)
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 2 users liked this useful post by Manga
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Joined: 22/07/2022(UTC) Posts: 62 Location: New South Wales, Sydney
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Märklin miniclub is great, but has one annoyance. It has to do with using catenary masts and long passenger cars on section track. Placing the catenary mast on the inside of either the radius 195 or 220mm section track, and you will always have the pasenger car touching and sliding against the mast. Placing it on the outside curve, and there is the smallest of gaps, though still too small for my liking. radius 220mm, inside curve (touching): radius 220mm, oustide curve (tiny gap): radius 195mm, inside curve (touching): radius 195mm, outside curve (tiny gap): This has to do with the passenger cars sitting over the rails when in a curve:  Of course this will not be a problem when you have smooth sweeping bends using flex track, but just thought I'd point it out.
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Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC) Posts: 635 Location: Sydney
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The mast installed in the metal clip. There is the normal inner position & there is the outer position, though not ideal it should allow clearance. You need to nail the clip down through the hole in outside end of the clip.
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Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC) Posts: 635 Location: Sydney
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195 radius track with masts set in the outer position.  
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 1 user liked this useful post by Toosmall
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Joined: 22/07/2022(UTC) Posts: 62 Location: New South Wales, Sydney
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Yes, that could work. I'd need to super glue the masts into their outer position. Should still be able to nail them in place as the feet won't have any hold on the track. Also I'll test with catenary wire to see if the locomotive still picks up power - should be alright as the mast is only moved by ~0.5mm
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Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC) Posts: 635 Location: Sydney
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The mast locks into place solidly whether in the inner or outer position. You shouldn't need any glue, and I wouldn't use it anyway as one tends to demolish a percentage of masts, I have about 30 spares (haven't rusted). You will need to nail down the metal plate. Mine are two decades old and the wire part has gone pretty rusty. Also bent the mast in the foreground. I have nailed all metal plates even though I am using the inner position. The concrete block is grey 3mm Forex, all the track is sitting on it as well to help create some vertical topography. 
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 1 user liked this useful post by Toosmall
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Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC) Posts: 635 Location: Sydney
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A mock-up of how I did the track bed base and mast base. The white base is only about 50mm wide to allow for greater topography height variation. Plan your topography at the start. It is actually the original elevation which otherwise you will have to spend a lot of effort on with the excavators. Look at the landscape first.  
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 3 users liked this useful post by Toosmall
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Joined: 22/07/2022(UTC) Posts: 62 Location: New South Wales, Sydney
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Another of my micro-dioramas to test my modelling techniques – before I commit to a larger layout. I have some 0.8mm cork which I intend to use as my roadbed, having 3 or 4 layers deep in a staggered effect so the ballast has a natural angle up to the track (~20 degrees).     Yes, I should have painted the catenary mast base a concrete colour before ballasting – however this is just a test.  Added 3 feathered colours of turf, more dry/dead at the track edges. I'm happy with the results (for a beginner).  Any constructive feedback on my work ? Positive and negative is appreciated. Afterword: I am a beginner, not retired (seriously lacking time in this hobby). I am mostly testing ideas/techniques at this stage, and am building a small module in parallel. I try to use natural materials if possible - and I hate foam as it goes everywhere. I model in Z-scale (1:220).
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 1 user liked this useful post by Manga
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Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC) Posts: 682 Location: London
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Your diorama is looking good. You can improve the Märklin catenary posts with a bit of paint - darken the metals bits, highlight the insulators, etc and then some weathering.
Carim
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Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC) Posts: 635 Location: Sydney
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Originally Posted by: Manga  Any constructive feedback on my work ? Positive and negative is appreciated.
Afterword: I am a beginner, not retired (seriously lacking time in this hobby). Don't retire as you won't have time for anything! I used polyurethane foam, you need to take it slowly as it expands a lot, then I cut it back to size and covered with normal train modelling products. As long as you plan the layout. Things like tunnel entrance, make foundation and backing wall and stick the detail on later. Roads, gutters and footpaths, if you plan out your road and footpaths/building footprint, you can allow for enough room for footpaths, parking bays, enough radius on corners. If you are spray painting roads you can pre mask the white lines etc, easier to do in reverse, white first. You can also spray for footpath colour first, maybe kerb and gutter, mask off, score a line 1 - 2 mm from the edge of the gutter with scalpel blade using spacer. Remove masking excess masking tape off road, spray road a bit darker. Styrene foam: Extruded styrene foam is much better to cut and saw than the normal styrene foam. I wouldn't be too particular with the finer scenic details at the early stage. It's Z gauge, you need a Lupe to see anything!
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,467 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
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Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC) Posts: 635 Location: Sydney
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My layout was about 90% done 2 decades ago. Now about 98% and it has slowed down even further. Even my 4 additional Unimogs basically just need painting and that's the easy bit, I even have all the intended spray can colours. Being retired I never find the time, getting older with various family health issues which takes up a lot of time, just how it is and I am not going to stress over unfinished things.
When an architectural model was finished and delivered often it came back for modifications. It was only once you got off the subject for a few weeks or so and saw it again. You saw a list of errors that no one picked up.
Growies hide a multitude of sins. If there is a mistake, add some detail and action. Car accident, girls on the footpath discussing services, workers digging a hole, to create distractions. Small sub scenes around the layout.
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