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Offline Thewolf  
#1 Posted : 07 November 2022 23:52:12(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,975
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Hi gang. Cool

My goodness, it's been a long time since I came to the forum. Blink

Winter is coming and it's the beginning of the train season. I'm back to work on the layout.

I hope you are all well. I'm fine and it's been a great summer season...with a few surprises though and many decisions have been made.

To come back to my layout Train de la Vallée du Richelieu, after 3 minutes. already a little problem : after many months of inactivity, I put my cs2 in function...the stop bar blinks...the cs2 loads correctly...all the screen appears correctly.....and oops the stop bar lights up, remains frozen ...the leds of the stop bar light up red....the cs2 is frozen, planted.Crying Crying Cursing Blushing Mad

What should I do? Thank you for the answerCool

Thewolf
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 08 November 2022 00:17:34(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,121
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
Hi gang. Cool

My goodness, it's been a long time since I came to the forum. Blink

Winter is coming and it's the beginning of the train season. I'm back to work on the layout.

I hope you are all well. I'm fine and it's been a great summer season...with a few surprises though and many decisions have been made.

To come back to my layout Train de la Vallée du Richelieu, after 3 minutes. already a little problem : after many months of inactivity, I put my cs2 in function...the stop bar blinks...the cs2 loads correctly...all the screen appears correctly.....and oops the stop bar lights up, remains frozen ...the leds of the stop bar light up red....the cs2 is frozen, planted.Crying Crying Cursing Blushing Mad

What should I do? Thank you for the answerCool

Thewolf


The current version of the software comes up with the stopbar lit when it has finished initialisation so that anything on the layout doesn't take off unexpectedly.

Did you try operating the stop bar to see if the red lights go out?
Offline Thewolf  
#3 Posted : 08 November 2022 00:34:02(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,975
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post


The current version of the software comes up with the stopbar lit when it has finished initialisation so that anything on the layout doesn't take off unexpectedly.

Did you try operating the stop bar to see if the red lights go out?


Thank you for your reply.

SorryCrying I forgot to explain that I had tried to operate the stop bar so that the red leds went out.

Despite two or three attempts to operate the stop bar, the cs2 remained as it was with the red leds on.Mad

Thewolf

Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline cookee_nz  
#4 Posted : 08 November 2022 01:27:27(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,853
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Have you tried disconnecting everything (except the power cable) to see if it will fully complete the startup, to rule out any external influence?
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline Thewolf  
#5 Posted : 08 November 2022 05:55:59(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,975
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Have you tried disconnecting everything (except the power cable) to see if it will fully complete the startup, to rule out any external influence?


Thank you for your reply.

No I didn't. Tomorrow morning without fail
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#6 Posted : 08 November 2022 17:41:30(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,975
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Hi gang Cool

The cs2 was sent to Mike, my dealer, from westend trains

Thewolf
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline cookee_nz  
#7 Posted : 08 November 2022 20:14:15(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,853
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
Hi gang Cool

The cs2 was sent to Mike, my dealer, from westend trains

Thewolf


I guess that means it still did the same thing with absolutely nothing else connected except the power, (no connection to the track etc)?

Not much more you can do if that is the case. Might still be a relatively simple issue but needs technical experience to diagnose BigGrin
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline kiwiAlan  
#8 Posted : 08 November 2022 20:19:53(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,121
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
Hi gang Cool

The cs2 was sent to Mike, my dealer, from westend trains

Thewolf


I guess that means it still did the same thing with absolutely nothing else connected except the power, (no connection to the track etc)?

Not much more you can do if that is the case. Might still be a relatively simple issue but needs technical experience to diagnose BigGrin


IIRC there was a loop that could cause this when updating the software, but I think he has done the right thing by taking it to his dealer.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#9 Posted : 10 November 2022 13:12:40(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,290
Location: Paris, France
Hi

The CS2 was very innovative and I liked it a lot. I have 2 of them, one 60214 that failed and was returned / repaired by Märklin (changed the mother board for a 60215 one)
I used them intensively for 10 years but I met some difficulties with them:
- the Stop bar switch was not active all the time. I had to open and use contact spray on the switch to solve the issue
- the booting up was never completing (the progress bar, instead of stopping near the screen's center, continued all the way to the right). I solved this once by booting many many times being near an internet access and when successful making an update
- the accessory output not working. Never been able to repair this one.

So today, one of my CS2s is booting and working OK but without a programming track while the other one cannot finish booting no matter what I try. I read in a German forum, that this could be caused by a mass memory chip having too many errors to self-repair.

When I interrogated both my dealer in Paris and Märklin in Göppingen in 2020, I got this:
- no Märklin cannot repair any CS2 (60213 to 60215)
- send back the unit to Göppingen and we will check: They made an offer for a reduced price on a CS3
- I ended up turning down Märklin's offer as I got a better deal from MSL (Lippe) for a 60226 (584€ in Oct 2020).
So as of today I have a CS3 and also a CS2 quite functional but without a programming track capability
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
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Offline marklinist5999  
#10 Posted : 10 November 2022 13:42:33(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 1,873
Location: Michigan, Troy
I find myself using the stop button on my auxiliary MS2 more than on the CS3. A derailment short often takes longer to trip off the CS3, and mostly the emergency stop will trip the MS2, thus the CS3 doesn't even show that it is in stop mode unless the error and warning red window pops up.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#11 Posted : 11 November 2022 13:33:00(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,290
Location: Paris, France
Hi
Yes, in some cases, with the latest s/w version on a CS3, when a short happens, the STOP bar does not lit but the current is cut all the same.
Small s/w bug I assume, that will be corrected by the next update. It has been more than a year since the last update so one is probably brewing in Göppingen.
They are also probably working on the CS3 replacement (should be released in less than 2 years time I think).
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
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Offline marklinist5999  
#12 Posted : 11 November 2022 19:21:29(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 1,873
Location: Michigan, Troy
Jean, the last update was in March which included the third pop up Loco controller feature. The prior one to that was in October 2021. I log them in my CS3 big manual when I install them.
Offline Thewolf  
#13 Posted : 17 November 2022 22:21:23(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,975
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Hi GangCool


I have a tile: my cs2 according to Mike has to go back to Germany but I'm not tempted, because you know when you send an item there but you don't know when it will return and I'm not sure they will fix it

So the whole gang knows I'm working with Itrain for layout control.

What should I take as a cs3 ? the 60216 or the 60226 ?

Thanks gangCool

Thewolf


Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline JohnjeanB  
#14 Posted : 18 November 2022 00:43:09(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,290
Location: Paris, France
Hi
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
What should I take as a cs3 ? the 60216 or the 60226 ?

The CS3 (60226) has the following advantages:
- has all the qualities of a CS3 + (60216) BUT has no integrated Link88 (that is simplified on a 60216 unit) and no capability to be a slave unit (does not matter when using only one CS3)
- is cheaper even when including a Link88 (60883).
- the separate Link88 offer 3 different buses one of which allowing to re-use older 6088 or 60880. The other 2 buses allow to grow the regular units 60881 in 2 directions which is key for medium and large layouts
- unlike the CS+, the whole power of the CS3 is fully dedicated to power the layout and not the S88 system
- the CS3 has 2 CAN plugs and not one like the CS3+

It must be noted that many CS2 users have already a Link88 (60883) which increases the attractiveness of the CS3

Just my opinion
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
Offline Thewolf  
#15 Posted : 18 November 2022 01:04:18(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,975
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
What should I take as a cs3 ? the 60216 or the 60226 ?

The CS3 (60226) has the following advantages:
- has all the qualities of a CS3 + (60216) BUT has no integrated Link88 (that is simplified on a 60216 unit) and no capability to be a slave unit (does not matter when using only one CS3)
- is cheaper even when including a Link88 (60883).
- the separate Link88 offer 3 different buses one of which allowing to re-use older 6088 or 60880. The other 2 buses allow to grow the regular units 60881 in 2 directions which is key for medium and large layouts
- unlike the CS+, the whole power of the CS3 is fully dedicated to power the layout and not the S88 system
- the CS3 has 2 CAN plugs and not one like the CS3+

It must be noted that many CS2 users have already a Link88 (60883) which increases the attractiveness of the CS3

Just my opinion
Cheers
Jean



Thanks Jean Cool

If I understood correctly what you were saying:

as I use a 60883 marklin with LDT RM 88 n Opto decoders, the CS3 60226 is the console I need.

It is cheaper than the 60216,

Thanks Jean, I will follow your advice Cool

Thewolf

Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline JohnjeanB  
#16 Posted : 18 November 2022 14:06:53(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,290
Location: Paris, France
Yes, exactly.
To come back to the idea of sending back the CS2 for repair, I have been through this, taked to Märklin Germany (Märklin service people) and here is what I got:
- NO for sure, Märklin will not repair any CS2 because they have no electronic spare parts. So, even for cosmetic repairs, they would be forced by (European) law to guarantee the repaired CS2 which they can't.
- So, almost without checking, Märklin will propose to keep and dispose of the faulty CS2 in exchange for a reduction at a Märklin dealer in your country. Märklin must be returned the faulty unit no matter what (cost). When this offer was made to me, I checked and found that this was better for me to keep my CS2 and order a new CS3 by checking the best offers in Germany. So at the time, I got a much better deal than Märklin's offer. Of course, shipment to France is much cheaper than to Canada (6 to 12 €, no duty)

About my 2 faulty CS2s: one does not boot up anymore, the other is almost fully functional: only the program track output is dead OK. I can even use it as a bosster and a slave unit to my CS3 (60226)

Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
Offline nhumps  
#17 Posted : 18 November 2022 19:51:53(UTC)
nhumps

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 58
Location: Wellington
Hi, maybe it is too late now but have you ruled out as suggested by Jean about the stop bar perhaps being faulty?
Do you have an MS2 you can plug in to test the STOP button?
Or connect the CS2 to the network and use the Marklin App or Web interface to try the stop button virtually?

For a while my STOP button on my CS2 was sticking and pressing it at different places/angles was required. As it turned out there was an obstruction in the mechanism and once cleared it has returned to normal operation
Offline Thewolf  
#18 Posted : 18 November 2022 20:47:24(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,975
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: nhumps Go to Quoted Post
Hi, maybe it is too late now but have you ruled out as suggested by Jean about the stop bar perhaps being faulty?
Do you have an MS2 you can plug in to test the STOP button?
Or connect the CS2 to the network and use the Marklin App or Web interface to try the stop button virtually?

For a while my STOP button on my CS2 was sticking and pressing it at different places/angles was required. As it turned out there was an obstruction in the mechanism and once cleared it has returned to normal operation


I understand but I explained to Mike, my dealer of over 10 years in Toronto, everything that Jean commented to me.

Mike told me that my cs2 was dead and even if Marklin fixed it as it is over 10 years old there is no guarantee that it will work 100% in the future.

So I decided to upgrade to the cs3 60226

Thewolf
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline JohnjeanB  
#19 Posted : 18 November 2022 21:17:35(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,290
Location: Paris, France
Hi
If we are sure, it is the stop bar that is not working (can it be activated by a plugged-in MS1 or MS2?) and all the rest is fine, then is is a matter of changing the SMC switch on the mother board.
Here is the backside of a 60215 mother board on one of my CS2s (the side adjacent to the screen and keys)
60215 stop switch R.jpg

Once the transparent pusher (see the red frame in picture) is moved away, the regular SMC (Surface Mounted Component) switch can be removed and changed.

For this you need:
- a set of Metric Torx screwdrivers (to open the CS2)
- a SMC Digital desoldering iron hot air soldering station such as this one https://www.ebay.de/itm/40289546...YJo%7Ctkp%3ABFBMuI6DxpFh
- the switch component to be purchased on Internet (less than 1 € usually)

Note: it is delicate work with good tools and an illuminated magnifier.
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline Thewolf  
#20 Posted : 07 December 2022 18:09:33(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,975
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Hi everyone Cool

I followed what Jean said and ordered the cs3 60226 from Mike.

I will receive it in 4-5 daysCool

Have a nice day

Thewolf
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Thewolf
Offline dickinsonj  
#21 Posted : 08 December 2022 01:33:12(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,543
Location: United States
I think you will really like the CS3. It is a far better machine (computer ) than the CS2, which I used for many years.

I won't go into all of the details but it is basically better in every way, with a far superior screen and processor. I still have my 60215 CS2 and use it as a slave to the CS3, which works quite well. ThumpUp

Enjoy!
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline Thewolf  
#22 Posted : 08 December 2022 04:52:29(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,975
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
I think you will really like the CS3. It is a far better machine (computer ) than the CS2, which I used for many years.

I won't go into all of the details but it is basically better in every way, with a far superior screen and processor. I still have my 60215 CS2 and use it as a slave to the CS3, which works quite well. ThumpUp

Enjoy!


Thanks for the comment.Cool

I will use the cs3 as a support for the ''Itrain'' software

Thewolf

Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
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Offline David Dewar  
#23 Posted : 08 December 2022 12:12:33(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,114
Location: Scotland
I have the CS3 PLus ( dont want a link but just connect straight to the S88) You will like your CS3 which for me does all I want without the hassle of other software. CS2 was good and if fixed you can still use it.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline Thewolf  
#24 Posted : 08 December 2022 17:05:46(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,975
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
I have the CS3 PLus ( dont want a link but just connect straight to the S88) You will like your CS3 which for me does all I want without the hassle of other software. CS2 was good and if fixed you can still use it.


Thanks for the commentCool

According to Mike, he doesn't know how to fix the cs2 and I don't want to get it fixed by Groeningen, as it's over 10 years old.

We know it's starting to fail, it's not good. You fix it, you pay a crazy price and then something else breaks down.

Thewolf


Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline BenP  
#25 Posted : 09 December 2022 00:02:46(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 185
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
I have the CS3 PLus ( dont want a link but just connect straight to the S88) You will like your CS3 which for me does all I want without the hassle of other software. CS2 was good and if fixed you can still use it.


Thanks for the commentCool

According to Mike, he doesn't know how to fix the cs2 and I don't want to get it fixed by Groeningen, as it's over 10 years old.

We know it's starting to fail, it's not good. You fix it, you pay a crazy price and then something else breaks down.

Thewolf




One more option perhaps. Can you use the CS2 as interface with PC train software, like Rocrail for example? My CS3 is underused and is just there to pass commands to/from PC. Expensive solution for an electronic interface. Maybe Marklin can offer a command connect box as future option instead of ever pricier control stations.
Digital M track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories, and small Z scale layout.
https://youtube.com/play...0kgVYbh0CeDTF-bYXoD_2-V9
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Offline Thewolf  
#26 Posted : 09 December 2022 16:22:11(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,975
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Hi the gang Cool

I have received the cs3.

I am disappointed with the user manual: I thought I would receive the same complete manual as the cs2 but what I received will not help me much.

You pay a lot of money and you get less and less.

I have to say that Marklin don't care about their customers.

Thewolf

Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline JohnjeanB  
#27 Posted : 09 December 2022 17:42:52(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,290
Location: Paris, France
Hi The Wolf

Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
You pay a lot of money and you get less and less.

I have to say that Marklin don't care about their customers.


I have to politely disagree. Yes, you are absolutely correct the paper documentation is quite thin on the CS3 (20 pages or so but to be honest it stayed in the box). I have an electronic copy on my computer.

Indeed, with my CS2 there were 4 thick documentations (50 - 80 pages not sure) in European languages (in late 2010). Later, in 2012 I got a Mega starter set with another CS2 and the documentation got already thinner.

I realized, over the years that the documentation kept on changing and the paper could not follow-up. Remember the CS2 Update to 2.0?

So Märklin decided to turn towards an electronic thick documentation constantly updated and assign the saved paper cost to better and fast-changing electronic documentation and plenty of videos on Youtube.
.
Not wasting resources (paper) and allowing to make electronic searches and annotations is now possible
Just my opinion
Similarly, I have all the Märklin catalogs on my computer (also all the real ones except 1949 and 1950) and I can access them quickly and much more easily than original catalogs 2007-2022 (cannot be scanned and shared)
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline rhfil  
#28 Posted : 09 December 2022 18:12:58(UTC)
rhfil

United States   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 237
Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth
Most manufacturers have gone away from including detailed manuals with products but offer them online. The online downloadable CS3 manual is pretty good and you might want to consider getting the 03093 manual.
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Offline Thewolf  
#29 Posted : 09 December 2022 20:21:47(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,975
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi The Wolf

Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
You pay a lot of money and you get less and less.

I have to say that Marklin don't care about their customers.


I have to politely disagree. Yes, you are absolutely correct the paper documentation is quite thin on the CS3 (20 pages or so but to be honest it stayed in the box). I have an electronic copy on my computer.

Indeed, with my CS2 there were 4 thick documentations (50 - 80 pages not sure) in European languages (in late 2010). Later, in 2012 I got a Mega starter set with another CS2 and the documentation got already thinner.

I realized, over the years that the documentation kept on changing and the paper could not follow-up. Remember the CS2 Update to 2.0?

So Märklin decided to turn towards an electronic thick documentation constantly updated and assign the saved paper cost to better and fast-changing electronic documentation and plenty of videos on Youtube.
.
Not wasting resources (paper) and allowing to make electronic searches and annotations is now possible
Just my opinion
Similarly, I have all the Märklin catalogs on my computer (also all the real ones except 1949 and 1950) and I can access them quickly and much more easily than original catalogs 2007-2022 (cannot be scanned and shared)
Cheers
Jean


Let's just say that my reaction was a "hot" reaction but once it was over, I was able to find the complete manual in pdf in French on the net.

I am in the process of reactivating my laptop which has been closed for several months, the little train activity being on standby for outdoor activities (summer).

Once the laptop is operational, I will be able to activate the cs3 pdf for use.

That said, Jean, you are right in your comment

Thewolf





Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#30 Posted : 09 December 2022 20:23:33(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,975
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: rhfil Go to Quoted Post
Most manufacturers have gone away from including detailed manuals with products but offer them online. The online downloadable CS3 manual is pretty good and you might want to consider getting the 03093 manual.


Thank you for your comment.

The 03093 manual is only in english and my native language is french


Thewolf

Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
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