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Offline pdpdude  
#1 Posted : 25 October 2022 20:30:51(UTC)
pdpdude

United States   
Joined: 25/10/2022(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: New Mexico, Las Cruces
I need help identifying this. I believe it is an early Marklin 1 Gauge. It’s been put away for a very long time. It was a late uncle’s. I know I’ve seen it run….long ago….but can’t remember much about it. I’d like any and all info possible on it.

What is it exactly?
Gauge,
model number,
age,
how it works,
what is it missing,
what does it need to get it to run,
value,
Where to get the things it’s missing….etc.

I thought he said it was a Marklin and it was from Germany. I believe he said it was pretty old and kind of valuable. I would really appreciate any info on it. Thank you all in advance!





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Offline kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 26 October 2022 00:28:50(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: pdpdude Go to Quoted Post

I thought he said it was a Marklin and it was from Germany. I believe he said it was pretty old and kind of valuable. I would really appreciate any info on it. Thank you all in advance!


The imprint on the firebox door of the loco in the last photo definitely looks like the Marklin trademark symbol from long ago when this loco would have been made. Beyond that I can't help much, but there are others here who know considerably more about the older items than I do.

But there are some more things you can tell us about it, like what is the distance (in millimeters preferably) between the outside of the flanges on the wheels (i.e. what gauge track it would run on).

Second, this loco would have had a tender, do you have that, or any other wagons to go with it?

It does look to be in good condition, so definitely potentially valuable, but without the tender the value will be considerably reduced from what it could be worth.
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Offline pdpdude  
#3 Posted : 26 October 2022 00:43:15(UTC)
pdpdude

United States   
Joined: 25/10/2022(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: New Mexico, Las Cruces
Hi and thanks for helping me out!
I do not have anything else but what you see. I believe it’s around 38-39 mm across the wheels.

Offline pdpdude  
#4 Posted : 26 October 2022 00:45:03(UTC)
pdpdude

United States   
Joined: 25/10/2022(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: New Mexico, Las Cruces
Pics of me trying to measure across the wheels.



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Offline kimballthurlow  
#5 Posted : 26 October 2022 00:52:54(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
This was one of the early Märklin logos.
This was used by Gebrüder Märklin (Brothers Märklin) or GM which can be seen entwined in the image.

With acknowledgment to www.sammler-sammler.de

Screenshot 2022-10-26 173841.JPG

[img]https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.zg0OAfS4-wTZtAqmM8MjhgHaHF&w=231&h=222&c=8&rs=1&qlt=90&o=6&pid=3.1&rm=2[/img]

At a guess I would put this model at 1890 -1910.

Kimball

Edited by moderator 26 October 2022 06:39:41(UTC)  | Reason: Added image

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline pdpdude  
#6 Posted : 26 October 2022 00:57:18(UTC)
pdpdude

United States   
Joined: 25/10/2022(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: New Mexico, Las Cruces
Wow…then it is pretty darn old….That is pretty cool! I thank you very much for helping me with info!
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#7 Posted : 26 October 2022 16:00:12(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: pdpdude Go to Quoted Post
Hi and thanks for helping me out!
I do not have anything else but what you see. I believe it’s around 38-39 mm across the wheels.



I'm thinking that would make it an O gauge then, rather than 1 gauge which would be 45mm across the wheels.

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Offline JohnjeanB  
#8 Posted : 26 October 2022 17:01:28(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,083
Location: Paris, France
Hi PDPDude
I am puzzled with your wheel measurements. The Märklin definition of gauges in mm (distance between rails) are:
- O gauge distance between rails = 32 mm
- 1 gauge distance between rails = 45 mm
- 2 gauge distance between rails = 54 mm

Note: In those days, the distance was measured between centers of the mushroom rail (a little bigger)

So your measurement seems to be between O Gauge and 1 Gauge
Looking into various catalogues I have, the closest model I found was in the 1912 Märklin Bros &Cie catalogue for the French market.
It seems from your pictures, the loco is a clockwork one. Is this true?
The closest loco in 1 scale, clockwork in the French Märklin catalog for 1912 is the B 1031 sold in France for 12,90 Francs (see below top left corner)
Cat Marklin 1912 Page 46 .png

Agreed the cabin is slightly different, the chimney seems missing a part and the coupling rod is also missing.
So your loco may be slightly earlier than 1912 and in those years there were variations because these were somewhere between artwork and industrial products

Note: the Märklin logo (Gebrüder Märklin & Cie) on the 1912 catalog is identical to the one you have on the steam door.
In my opinion, the loco is certainly not a later than 1912 model but an earlier one and the cabin look like one for the German market
On the 1928 catalogue, the logo is similar but the "C" of Cie is not in the center but to the left.
That is all I could find in my documentation.
Jean
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Offline pdpdude  
#9 Posted : 27 October 2022 00:28:58(UTC)
pdpdude

United States   
Joined: 25/10/2022(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: New Mexico, Las Cruces
Hello…and thank you for your help. I think it is a steam engine and NOT a clockwork.

Offline pdpdude  
#10 Posted : 27 October 2022 00:32:37(UTC)
pdpdude

United States   
Joined: 25/10/2022(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: New Mexico, Las Cruces
More photos of it.











Offline DB Fan  
#11 Posted : 27 October 2022 02:39:56(UTC)
DB Fan

United States   
Joined: 01/03/2016(UTC)
Posts: 265
Location: Colorado
Hello
That was the first thought that came to my mind when I saw the picture in the first post. I’m not an expert on older Marklin engines but I googled “Marklin live steam engine” and found several pictures that look similar to the engine you have. Hope this helps.

Robert
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Offline pdpdude  
#12 Posted : 27 October 2022 20:33:58(UTC)
pdpdude

United States   
Joined: 25/10/2022(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: New Mexico, Las Cruces
I could sure use some help identifying
this old beauty. It was a late uncles and I really don’t know much about it. I believe it is a steam locomotive. I do not see any kind of clockwork mechanism underneath. I believe it is missing a smokestack? And also missing the tender?
I do not see any numbers on it. I would also appreciate any ideas of the value of it. It is the only train item left to me and I don’t see a way that I can put a lot of money into a new hobby. So I think it’s best to try and sell it. I am hoping to add to my daughters college savings! Please help me if you can. I would really appreciate it!
















Offline mike c  
#13 Posted : 27 October 2022 20:44:01(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
It's too early... Ask me again in a few hours

MC
Offline kiwiAlan  
#14 Posted : 27 October 2022 20:50:37(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Well, this is a repost of all the same pictures as the thread that has already lasted several days.

Not sure what the aim is in creating a new thread which is asking for the same information.
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Offline pdpdude  
#15 Posted : 27 October 2022 21:42:18(UTC)
pdpdude

United States   
Joined: 25/10/2022(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: New Mexico, Las Cruces
I was worried that it wasn’t getting seen all that much in the category I first posted it. I was hoping for more input on I.d. Model number, era, value, etc. I am hoping to sell it….but it’s hard to when I don’t know exactly what it is. I did not mean to offend anyone by posting it again in a “General” category. I do thank you for your help though.
Offline kimballthurlow  
#16 Posted : 28 October 2022 00:03:59(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hello pdpdude
I have sent you a private message.
You can access the message by clicking the My Inbox tab third line down in the main forum heading.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline Henrik Schütz  
#17 Posted : 05 November 2022 12:59:23(UTC)
Henrik Schütz

Sweden   
Joined: 04/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 74
Location: Stockholms Lan, Stockholm
Anyway, irs a live steam locomotive, running with real steam.

Henrik
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Offline Hannes Porsche  
#18 Posted : 05 November 2022 20:55:36(UTC)
Hannes Porsche

South Africa   
Joined: 08/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Western Cape, South Africa
Hi, judging from the "Positive" comments you have received thus far you may have to re-post or re-request a THIRD time. In any case I wish I could just guide you to understand what gauge that loko is. Further more the meaning and origin of the front cover emblem on the boiler.
I hope you manage, you may even have to try the "Antique" world.

Keep us posted, using a "PROGRESS REPORT "

Thanks,
HANNES.


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Offline pdpdude  
#19 Posted : 05 November 2022 21:04:20(UTC)
pdpdude

United States   
Joined: 25/10/2022(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: New Mexico, Las Cruces
The logo on the front of the boiler is for Marklin & Cie. (I have been told)
Offline pdpdude  
#20 Posted : 05 November 2022 21:07:03(UTC)
pdpdude

United States   
Joined: 25/10/2022(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: New Mexico, Las Cruces
I have it listed on eBay now. We will see. Sometimes folks on there know about stuff and like to tell you about it….so maybe I will know more about it here soon.
Offline Hannes Porsche  
#21 Posted : 05 November 2022 21:50:58(UTC)
Hannes Porsche

South Africa   
Joined: 08/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Western Cape, South Africa
Hi, I will be "POSITIVE"

The Loco is a Marklin 4001 running on methylated spirits.
From the era 1910.
Value E 200

I Hope this will solve your problem.

Thanks,

HANNES


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Offline cookee_nz  
#22 Posted : 06 November 2022 09:08:26(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Hannes Porsche Go to Quoted Post
Hi, I will be "POSITIVE"

The Loco is a Marklin 4001 running on methylated spirits.
From the era 1910.
Value E 200

I Hope this will solve your problem.

Thanks,

HANNES




I agree, but available from at least 1904....

4001 = Gauge I (48 mm)
4002 = G II (54 mm)

1904H-p039.jpg

1904H-p038.jpg

Hope this helps....

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#23 Posted : 06 November 2022 09:14:41(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Well, this is a repost of all the same pictures as the thread that has already lasted several days.

Not sure what the aim is in creating a new thread which is asking for the same information.


Merged both threads.
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Offline pdpdude  
#24 Posted : 08 November 2022 23:49:24(UTC)
pdpdude

United States   
Joined: 25/10/2022(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: New Mexico, Las Cruces
Originally Posted by: Hannes Porsche Go to Quoted Post
Hi, I will be "POSITIVE"

The Loco is a Marklin 4001 running on methylated spirits.
From the era 1910.
Value E 200

I Hope this will solve your problem.

Thanks,

HANNES




Well….the 4001 models that I have seen that have sold…sold for way more than $200….AND THEY definitely were a bit different. They didn’t have the logo on the front or the hitch thing. Definitely didn’t have the paint details that this one has. I don’t know…but it is similar.





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