I want to model NA locos. Marklin have very limited selection. Does anyone have experience converting standard 2 rail Locos to use with the CS2?

Edited by user 24 July 2013 10:24:57(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Thanks. Can you expand on the "electrically it's pretty easy" part. I assume i have to purchase a replacment Marklin or 3rd party decoder and try to fit it into the loco but dont' know about sound (is it a separate decoder?) Are voltages compatible with the types of motors available on NA locos? This is my first attempt at something like this, i dont mind investing a little and i'm not averse to risk.

Hi!
All good advice here...
I have converted literally hundreds of 2-rail to 3-rail locos (and vice-versa... ), including *many* North American and even Chinese models.
There are essentially two types of thing to consider: mechanical and electrical.

The electrical part is indeed "simple" and I won't add anything except that with a CS2 or an ECoS or an Intellibox , etc. you won't even have to change the decoder (if present) since you can have your central producing the DCC control signals required. Just read the manual for all the answers...
And with the advent of today's really small decoders, finding space in the loko is no longer an issue, even in older models

The real complexity is in the mechanical work: the wheels/axles, the pick up shoe and accessorily the couplers.

Wheels: RP 25 profile only work 95% reliably on C-track, even though you may not get any derailment, the lower profile flange will "sink" into switches' frogs and dance an unaesthetic shake..
When possible, I systematically replace RP 25 wheels with Märklin ones, even though this definitely requires more works and involves the use of a lathe, wheel puller, wheel etc.

The key though is to correct the inner spacing from 14.2 mm to 13.8 ...14.0 mm, which will greatly reduce derailment issues due to flanges picking up the point of the frog or a counter rail.
I use this simple gauge to check proper spacing: http://www.fohrmann.com/...ahner/rail-gauge-h0.html

With the same supplier you'll find many other useful tools like wheel pullers, whell presses and quartering jigs (indispensable for loks with side rods)

As for the pick up shoe , in 99.9% of the cases, I have succeeded to fit a Märklin ski under the loc, as long as

1) you remove the insulating plate, and mount the ski directly in to the loco plastic bogie, after cutting four small slots (see picture below)
You'd still need about 2 mm free space if you use the older style rigid Märklin pick ups, the newer "floppy" versions are so thin (and it's good news!) you only need about 1 mm clearance.
The one in the picture was fabricated "in-house", using a 0.5 mm brass strip, properly slotted and shaped to fit a Märklin spring (which is 0.3mm thick for instance) .

2)... and you should be ready to eventually make little cut-outs in the base plate cover, in order to accommodate the "curl" at the tips of the ski. (again check the picture below)
I use a milling machine for that operation..maybe an overkill, but I am AnR ...

As for the couplers, I have solved the problem once and for all on NA style models.
If there is no original short coupler mechanism/ NEM pocket installed, I systematically install the Symoba products.
That includes even long coaches, where I can also use the Kay-Dee NEM shaft style couplers when compatibility with these is required.

Rather than chatting indefinetly over "generalities", show us a *specific* example of a "to be converted" lok, and I'll be offering *specific* suggestions.
Cheers

And I have 2 Rapido FP9A loks to convert too!
As the gear covers are too low for a pickup, I am thinking of placing the pick-ups under the unpowered dummy (hava an A-B-A for my Canadian) or the baggage car and running power from there.

This is the typical situation, for which I have suggested the method highlighted in my reply...
Before having it I was sometimes disabling one of the power trucks to get room to install the pick-up...but this is no longer needed.
All is needed is to be able to slide a 1mm thick piece of cardboard between the power bogie and the pukos on a switch which are the highest on the whole system
After I check the pictures of that FP9 I'll give you suggestion.
Cheers...

Beano I'm really interested in this as well for the same reasons.

If you need help with any of the electrical stuff let me know. I'm in the GTA as well.

Hi Ray. For me it's just for the variety and ease of availability.
Ill still collect marklin and am not too concerned with accurate prototypical setups.


My other thought was to run a loop of trix ctrack alongside the marklin to avoid any of the conversion issues.

Same here!
Grew up in Europe and hooked to Märklin, then spent 1/4 century in the US and moved my Märklin collection along...then started to really like the looks and sound of NA trains.
Now back in Europe, moved back both all my original Märklin and some more along with my NA trains and I still love both!
What can I say?
And 3-rails is so much more reliable...

Hi all,
As Dr. Eisenbahn explained the challenge is where/how to put the slider/shoe/ski on the lok,....the rest is as easy as pie,....

Dr D

OK. Nothing unusual..
You need 2 mm clearance (if you use a std Märklin ski) between the bogie's bottom and the highest pukos: the ones on the switches.
With the newer style or if you make your own (like shown above) you need about 1.3 mm.
Cut yourself a strip of cardboard or balsa of that thickness, about 13 mm in width and 20 cm in length.
Place the loco on the straight part of a switch, with the bogie on top of the high pukos.
Slide the gauge strip between the wheels...it if passes , you have enough clearance.
Take a Märklin ski as long as you can find, to possibly have the "ears" to be outside of the bogie (see picture below)
Carefully separate it from its insulating plate and straighten up the little brass fingers from the spring blade
Take the bottom off the bogie and mark it exactly where the fingers should be coming to place the ski perfectly in the center and with ears clearing the bogies' bottom..
Cut 4 slots (I do it by drilling a number of adjacent 1 mm holes, then open the slot with an X-acto cutter and finish smooth with a thin file)
To accommodate the ski "ears", you may also need to cut the edge of the bogie's bottom (as in the photo below) if it is a long one.
But from the looks of it, not needed in your case!
Mount the slider by sliding the fingers in the slots, either bend the metal or simpler, super glue them to the bottom of the bogie.
Voilà!

Hi all,
Please remember that others make shoes/slider/skies. Lililput made a very low profile one,....


Dr D

Hmm. I have about 14 Marklin Trains and love German (and Swiss) railroads.
However, I am Canadian and wanted to have the VIA Canadian as well as I have taken it several times already.
So 2 loks against 14(and growing)??? Three rail it is.

It is also the challenge and it is my railroad and I get to dictate what I want. But it is hard work I admit, but it will make the end result all the more rewarding....

Also. Do you know how many European vacationers LOVE the VIA Canadian! I think that if Marklin would come out with the Canadian, they would sell well too. They have all the tooling as proven when they made the Wabash Blue Bird.

Did you measure the clearance as suggested?
If you know the value, I can probably suggest a part number or two.
Also maybe a picture underneath the loco, with the shoe installed of course...
We'll get to the bottom of this affair!!

Well from the looks of it, you may have a case where the thinner (home made, as shown on one of my pictures) slider may be required.
Also make sure the solder doesn't interfere with the slider.
But before that , try to establish if you are in the 2 mm or the 1.3 mm clearance case, using the technique I suggested.
Iy is really primordial and an integral part of the "recipe"..;can't skip that step!
Cheers

GvanWyk, Yes you can use a DCC lok with the MS2 as it is multi protocol. The decoder does not care how it got it power, either from a rail (2 rail) or a slider (3 rail).
Yes only one side will be grounded unles you jumper both sides to get ground. Can be done if you have power transfer problems. It is also necesseary if you want to use the block detection technique with an isolated rail.

That's extreme...but nothing is impossible for dedicated Marklinists!
My 2 rail club has soldered a resistor between the axel and the wheel, bypassing the bushing.
(they did this for train detection purposes...)
If you can solder small wires, you can do this too if you do not have a puller and lathe....
I am a machinist turned engineer and am jelous of those who have their own shops!

Seems like it's time to bring up the silver paint option again...

Well, it has been some time since i updated this post. Not sure if anyone is still interested, I now have the following successfully running on my Marklin layout...
1. ES44 Canadian Pacific. Athearn Genesis
2. GP9 Athearn Genesis.
3. FP-9 VIA Rail, Rapido.

I am Working on a GO Transit GP-40 Athearn Genesis

I have the following on order from Rapido and Will Convert when they arrive
GMD-1 CNx2, F7 VIA, LRC VIA

I also have the following MTH locos running very nicely..
1. GP35 SP
2. GP35 CN(Redecorated from SF)
3. GP35 CP (Redecorated from SF)
4. SD70 M-2 CN (CHanged bodies from NS)

Thanks to all of you who helped get this rolling esp. Jacques.

Ok Jacques,
My apologies for the delay, I was distracted doing my first attempt at redecorating an MTH GP35. It's not beautiful but I am quite happy with the results. Anyway, the other conversions are looking a little hopeless. I measured the two candidates and the results are discouraging. The Rapido is less than 1 mm (0.6) clearance and the Athearn is only slightly better at 0.04" or 1,02 mm. I also think that the wheel flanges are not deep enough to keep the wheels aligned through the switches. I am looking into changing the wheels to the MTH marklin style but there are clearance issues with the trucks.

Piko produces AC and DC locos, so have alook at the Piko catalogue and see if this modelis produced as an AC model as well., besides this all Piko models regardless whether AC or DC have the option of adding a slider.

John

Decided to do just that. The good folks at ajckids found me an AC yellow hondekop, which I'll convert to digital. Need to do some homework, as i have only converted Marklin locos thus far. Suggestions welcome.