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Offline ocram63_uk  
#1 Posted : 27 May 2020 16:29:56(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 342
Location: England, Suffolk
Good day to everyone, all keeping safe or staying alert ?

This locomotive has not travelled much so it shouldn't behave in the way it is doing.

It runs in a jerky way, movement is not fluid and constant, the more so when the speed knob is halfway.
At higher speed it isn't too evident.

I deleted all my MFX locos from the EcOS and started by re-loading this one. No big changes, apart that it goes faster than I had previously tweaked it to go. I don't want it to shoot off the rails :-(

At low to middle speeds it is jerky but the more I increase speed it behaves better.

The motor is not serviceable as it is one of the new generation motors, when it was made.

The only thing I have never done is to put grease in the various receptacles, operation that involves dismantling part of the loco. :-(

Motor, decoder and the 'leiterplatte schnittstelle' do not even show up on the marklin spare part shop

Ideas / suggestions ?

I'll give it a small grease first but then ?#

Thank you
Marco




Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 27 May 2020 16:57:43(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,752
Location: DE-NW
Hi!

The Compact C Sine motor by Märklin can behave very jerky with the original motor driver board used by Märklin.
Updated motor driver boards should have a "csin3" sticker on the board. Early batches of the 39120 don't have it.

I don't know if Märklin still offer free upgrades for affected locos.

If the loco has a csin3 board, then greasing sparingly or cleaning wheel/axle contacts would be a good idea.

If the loco does not have the csin3 board then it might help to disable RailCom in the ECoS if it is enabled.

Related thread:
https://www.marklin-user...3-upgrade-Csinus-compact
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#3 Posted : 27 May 2020 19:46:03(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 951
Location: Paris, France
Hi Marco

This loco seems to be produced in 2008 or so with a SDS motor.
All is possible on a specific loco but having exactly 9 locos with SDS, manufactured between 2006 and 2011 they all are very smooth with superb low speed capability.
I also have 2 with compact C-sine and one C Sine loco also behaving very well.
When the electronics is not damaged, then these models with a ball-bearing motor are flawless.
Long speech to say you need to check the current pick-up (not only the slider but also the current return). On some locos I added a tiny brown wire to connect the motor bogie to the ground to have pick-up return by all wheels.

The other thing is to check that all gears are clean as they may pick-up some ballast or scenic decoration dust.
The last thing that may happen (not to me though) is that the capacitor used to create DC from rectified digital may have its value reduced due to aging and another new capacitor of equal or larger value may help.
Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
Offline ocram63_uk  
#4 Posted : 28 May 2020 08:36:50(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 342
Location: England, Suffolk
can you determine by the serial number the year of production ?
S6023016 what info does this give us ? I'll write Marklin and see what they tell me
Offline ktsolias  
#5 Posted : 28 May 2020 08:58:06(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 488
Location: Athens
The serial number says that the loco was produced in 2006 if the digits are orange
Costas
Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 28 May 2020 10:13:25(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,752
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: ktsolias Go to Quoted Post
The serial number says that the loco was produced in 2006 if the digits are orange
And 2006 means the loco has a Compact C Sine motor with the problematic driver board and not the later SDS.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline ocram63_uk  
#7 Posted : 28 May 2020 10:28:37(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 342
Location: England, Suffolk
serial number is green
Offline ocram63_uk  
#8 Posted : 28 May 2020 10:29:47(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 342
Location: England, Suffolk
so a ‘broken’ loco Tom :-(
Offline Dave Banks  
#9 Posted : 28 May 2020 11:18:05(UTC)
Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 971
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
https://static.maerklin....873acf89031434541848.pdf

18). Leiterplatte Schnittstelle = #104673
19). Decoder = #104690
D.A.Banks
Offline H0  
#10 Posted : 28 May 2020 11:49:59(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,752
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post
so a ‘broken’ loco Tom :-(
There are many different reasons for jerkiness of a loco.
It could be the known design flaw of the "Compact C Sine" series, it could be a different problem.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline ocram63_uk  
#11 Posted : 28 May 2020 12:09:48(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 342
Location: England, Suffolk
wrote to Marklin support. Let's see what they tell me
Offline ocram63_uk  
#12 Posted : 28 May 2020 14:36:15(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 342
Location: England, Suffolk
Hi Dave, the spare parts you mention are not available anymore at the factory. Plus if these are the ones that were mounted on the orginal loco I believe they will have the same 'flaws' I have already.
Thank you
Offline ktsolias  
#13 Posted : 28 May 2020 21:47:26(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 488
Location: Athens
Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post
serial number is green


OK my fault from 2006 on the color of the digits is green

Costas

Offline Dave Banks  
#14 Posted : 29 May 2020 11:53:16(UTC)
Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 971
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Found this on Stummi's Forum:

#1Contribution from paul_accola » Fri Oct 11, 2019 at 7:47 pm
Dear forum!

With my E10 345 (Art. 39120 ) the built-in decoder has unfortunately said goodbye. The locomotive works with a sine motor and has both a control board for the motor, a sound module and a decoder built in via the 21-pin interface.

Now there is neither Märklin nor ESU replacement for the original decoder - an ESU LP3. I then searched the forum and the wide web for a solution. And finding this was not that easy ...

... at some point I came across the fact that the new generation of retrofit decoders from Märklin mld-3 (item 60972) are apparently suitable as a replacement. So I found the settings for the sinus motor in the operating instructions:
"With sinus motors, CV 52 must be set to 1 and CV 56 to 0 and CV 51 to either 24 or 0 (see CV tables). In addition, you must set Aux 3 and Aux 4 to status (S) and travel (F) map with the Central Station or the Programmer 60971. "

However, one thing should definitely be observed: Function outputs 3 and 4 are set to amplification by default and this would destroy the motor control board. So don't put the decoder in the sine locomotive.
But since I don't have a locomotive programmer, I used another locomotive with a PLUX-21 interface without a sinus motor to program the decoder first. This went surprisingly well with the CS-2. You only had to do a bit of tricks to map outputs 3 and 4: Select a function key for programming under CV programming. Then you can select "Special functions" on the left-hand side and thus switch on outputs 3 and 4 permanently. Then I plugged the decoder into the interface of the Sinus-Lok ...

... and lo and behold: the E10 purred like a kitten
D.A.Banks
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Offline H0  
#15 Posted : 29 May 2020 12:13:38(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,752
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Dave Banks Go to Quoted Post
Found this on Stummi's Forum
Great find. But old news.
And most likely unrelated to this thread (motor issues, not defective decoder).

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Dave Banks  
#16 Posted : 30 May 2020 01:54:36(UTC)
Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 971
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Tom its go to the point where Marco is now looking to dispense with the motor entirely & replace with a Non - Sinus motor if i can describe it as such. Has anyone tried to do this before & if so could you let us know your experience & costs ETC.
D.A.Banks
Offline mvd71  
#17 Posted : 30 May 2020 04:24:08(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,235
Location: Auckland,
Hi Dave,

To dispense with the snot drive sinus, the best bet would be a trip to SB-Modellbau website. Motor conversions are available that seem to be in the €115-130 range. The great thing with one of their conversions is that you can use a normal decoder without a driver board, and they still have running quality that is on par with the sine motor if you get the premium option conversion.

Cheers...

Mike
Offline Dave Banks  
#18 Posted : 30 May 2020 06:18:55(UTC)
Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 971
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Thanks Mike, will go have a look at that option.

Dave...
D.A.Banks
Offline mvd71  
#19 Posted : 30 May 2020 10:38:44(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,235
Location: Auckland,
No worries Dave. I've had a BR01 and 41 fitted with their premium kit and they were really good runners. Kinda regret selling them but I know they went to a good home. Upgraded a BR86 with one recently and the transformation was incredible in terms of noise reduction.

Cheers....

Mike
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Offline Dave Banks  
#20 Posted : 30 May 2020 12:03:07(UTC)
Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 971
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
This the version of that loco BR E 10.3 body /chassis that I have as #37011 BR110.3

https://static.maerklin....fc503f0c8c1434542556.pdf

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

For a comparison I found this: http://www.dermodellbahnchecker...9121-maerklin-inside.htm
D.A.Banks
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#21 Posted : 30 May 2020 13:08:07(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,296
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: ktsolias Go to Quoted Post
The serial number says that the loco was produced in 2006 if the digits are orange
Costas


How do you work that out?

The serial number of my 39120 is S7054713 in green letters.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#22 Posted : 30 May 2020 13:09:34(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,296
Location: New Zealand
I guess I should read https://www.marklin-user...comotive-s-serial-number

So my 39120 is from 2007.
Offline ocram63_uk  
#23 Posted : 30 May 2020 16:56:48(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 342
Location: England, Suffolk
does your have the same problems I have ?

This morning I gave the loco a full throttle run for 30 minutes in both directions. As I was also listening a few old LPs, Flash and the pan and Dire Straits I could not hear if the engine was jerky or not. Certainly it responded well to the various speed regulations I imposed on the loco.

When I have another moment I will do like native americans, put my ear to the tracks and hear the noise propagating through the tracks hahahaha

Still waiting for Marklin's reply. Certainly I will stay well away from 39XXX locos in the future because if I would want to replace the PCB or the whole motor set from SB-modellbau I'd better buy a new loco from Marklin. Too expensive retrofitting.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#24 Posted : 30 May 2020 18:42:16(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 951
Location: Paris, France
Hi Marco

It looks like your loco is running fine again. Your loco was made from 2008 (so past the infant problems). See my previous post.
Here is my BR E12 from set 26540 in 2006 -Top- in company of the CC 40108 39401 in 2008 -bottom-
IMG_4577.JPG
Both SDS locos work very fine but the sound module is less reliable
Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
Offline TEEWolf  
#25 Posted : 30 May 2020 19:49:46(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,413
Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post

It runs in a jerky way, movement is not fluid and constant, the more so when the speed knob is halfway.
At higher speed it isn't too evident.

I deleted all my MFX locos from the EcOS and started by re-loading this one. No big changes, apart that it goes faster than I had previously tweaked it to go. I don't want it to shoot off the rails :-(

At low to middle speeds it is jerky but the more I increase speed it behaves better.

The motor is not serviceable as it is one of the new generation motors, when it was made.

The only thing I have never done is to put grease in the various receptacles, operation that involves dismantling part of the loco. :-(

Motor, decoder and the 'leiterplatte schnittstelle' do not even show up on the marklin spare part shop

Ideas / suggestions ?

I'll give it a small grease first but then ?#

Thank you
Marco


Why are you so certain the problem comes from the motor? Could it not be the decoder too?

By the Maerklin database this loco has a single function mfx decoder on board. You have an ECos, which is only derived for a mfx compatibility. The full certified mfx compatibility Maerklin offers since 2019 to other manufacturers. I guess your products does not have it yet. In my opinion this jerky behaviour could also refer to the decoder of the loco. Especially yourself are noting after reregistering the loco at the ECos, it is going faster as before. Something must have be happened during the new registering process. I do not think at the motor changed something.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#26 Posted : 31 May 2020 00:00:13(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,296
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Why are you so certain the problem comes from the motor?


Because it is a well known issue with the early version motor driver boards these locos use....

As to the rest of your comments, I'm not sure what you mean regarding the Ecos mfx compatibilty. The decoders in these particular locos, AFAIR, are made by ESU, you'd think ESU decoders would be compatible with ESU controllers!

Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post
does your have the same problems I have ?


I haven't run it for some time, but I've never had this issue with my 39120, nor with my 39121.

I did have an issue with my 39010 Br01, which uses a SDS motor where it stuttered quite badly when I used my CS1 with a 60va transformer. When I swapped the transformer for a power supply, the stuttering was cured!

Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Your loco was made from 2008.....


I thought we had established Marco's loco was made in 2006. Did I miss something?
Offline ocram63_uk  
#27 Posted : 31 May 2020 00:28:43(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 342
Location: England, Suffolk
Hi BigDaddy, you haven't missed anything. According to the serial number, green S6023016, it is made in 2006
Made Wolfie made a mistake :-)

Tomorrow I'll unleash it again without music in the background.
The decoder has asticker on it that says 29/06/10 and I believe it is the date the decoder was manufatcured.
I can't see who produced the decoder though.
Strangethat the decoder is older than the loco production date. Maybe it was replaced by the previous owner ?

My EcOS has never had problem registering mfx decoders in all these years, it pickes them up all the time and since the operating system update ESU delivered a few years ago, mfx decoders are loaded even faster.

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Offline Dave Banks  
#28 Posted : 31 May 2020 03:08:13(UTC)
Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 971
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Marco that rings alarm bells in what you just said. As you said you bought this as 'Used" as well as another model and you have had issues with both. It may be that the last owner has had a change of decoder in your 39120 & not got the decoder programming 100% right. So there may be some truth in what Teewolf says. May be David NZ can support the issue by checking the so called date on his decoder & that will support or dismiss my theory. This loco could also have been back to Marklin at some stage & had a new decoder fitted as part of the repair process. During that time,2006 Marklin were using ESU decoders.
D.A.Banks
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#29 Posted : 31 May 2020 03:23:24(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,158
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Dave Banks Go to Quoted Post
Marco that rings alarm bells in what you just said. As you said you bought this as 'Used" as well as another model and you have had issues with both. It may be that the last owner has had a change of decoder in your 39120 & not got the decoder programming 100% right. So there may be some truth in what Teewolf says. May be David NZ can support the issue by checking the so called date on his decoder & that will support or dismiss my theory. This loco could also have been back to Marklin at some stage & had a new decoder fitted as part of the repair process. During that time,2006 Marklin were using ESU decoders.


It could be that the decoder failed and the loco was sent back to Marklin for repair under warranty. IIRC all the early C-Sine items had 5 year warranty, so that would be within that time.
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Offline ocram63_uk  
#30 Posted : 31 May 2020 11:00:05(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 342
Location: England, Suffolk
so I could get a new 21 pin decoder and give it a go, as probably the 'faulty' PCB board has already been changed?

I bought 39120 second hand in 2011 as well as a 39680 in 2012 which was sent to Marklin as it had the jerky behaviour.
I found the invoices :-)

Still waiting to hear from Marklin as if it has been repaired they should have a record for this specific serial number, I hope.

And so the saga goes on :-(

With decoder
39120 A.JPG

Without decoder
39120 B.JPG

HTH
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#31 Posted : 31 May 2020 12:53:31(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,296
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post
I can't see who produced the decoder though.


I don't know if the decoder will let you read the value of CV8, but if it does that will return the manufacturer number

https://ncedcc.zendesk.c...er-the-NMRA-Value-in-CV8

Marklin will read as 131 (Trix) and ESU is 151.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#32 Posted : 31 May 2020 14:01:18(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,296
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Dave Banks Go to Quoted Post
May be David NZ can support the issue by checking the so called date on his decoder...


Decoder is dated 12/07/08. I can't read CV8 with my Ecos either!

IMG20200531231216.jpg

Offline ocram63_uk  
#33 Posted : 31 May 2020 23:12:20(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 342
Location: England, Suffolk
Neither can I read cv8 - EcOS throws out an error :-(
Offline Dave Banks  
#34 Posted : 31 May 2020 23:58:03(UTC)
Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 971
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
David you say your loco with original decoder runs sweetly? Marco yours with what looks like a decoder replacement runs not as you desire. Are you both able to compare the entire CV list of each decoder & see where the differences are if any. Marco do you know anyone who owns a Lok- Programmer close to you? The other thing that could be a stumbling block is that the decoder is a Marklin Factory "ESU"- OEM type & some things just cannot be changed as you know. Angry
D.A.Banks
Offline TEEWolf  
#35 Posted : 01 June 2020 19:37:57(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,413
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Why are you so certain the problem comes from the motor?


Because it is a well known issue with the early version motor driver boards these locos use....


OK, but you do not know for sure as long as you have not yet tested by another motor.

Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post

As to the rest of your comments, I'm not sure what you mean regarding the Ecos mfx compatibilty. The decoders in these particular locos, AFAIR, are made by ESU, you'd think ESU decoders would be compatible with ESU controllers!


Well, in a text or video about mfx, it was stated Maerklin's competitors offers mfx already for a longer time too. (This was all before Feb 2019, when Maerklin published its mfx format for everybody and even offers a certification to assure full compatibility of mfx) But this mfx format is not constructed by Maerklin's developed technical documents and support. It shall be developed retrograde derived from the finished product. The authors of the text are thinking this procedure does not achieve a 100% compatibility. I think so too. Or why does now Maerklin offers a mfx certification to assure a 100% compatibility with the mfx format?

Another reason for a not fully compatibility will be the ongoing developing process of this format after 2004 when Maerklin and ESU split up. It is implausible a product from 2008 or 2010 is still exact the same one as in 2004. Do not forget, also the CS 2 was issued in 2008 and superseded the CS 1.


Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Decoder is dated 12/07/08. I can't read CV8 with my Ecos either!


How is this possible, if ESU has developed the CS 1 and the ECos? Logically there must be a difference between these controllers, or do you know, why your ECos is not reading CV 8?
Offline ocram63_uk  
#36 Posted : 01 June 2020 23:27:44(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 342
Location: England, Suffolk
I have no idea why I can't read CV8 with my EcOS either. Surely this is strange. I don't have another 21 pin decoder lying around to carry out this test.
I don't want to keep updating/upgrading the second hand locos I buy. What would be the point?

Can I put any decoder I want on a SDS loco like my 39120 ? Just a question, not going to do it right now anyway.

This decoder, although I can change settings while on main track, does not comply with what I command it to do. I have to reset it after every CV I change because it simply drives like sh.t
Offline ocram63_uk  
#37 Posted : 01 June 2020 23:30:17(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 342
Location: England, Suffolk
Dave, I don't know who owns a LokProgrammer near me. Let me ask 😊

Is there anybody with a LP in Suffolk, UK? Possibly in the Ipswitch area ?
Thank you

Let us see what happens now 🤞
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#38 Posted : 01 June 2020 23:35:34(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,296
Location: New Zealand
ESU developed the mfx protocol on Marklin's behalf, although their own OEM decoders did not support mfx until sometime later. This was all long before Marklin came up with the compatibility certification.

Decoders that are factory placed into locos are well known to be locked, only basic things like address can be changed. That probably why they can't be read.

Marco, you can probably use a msD3 decoder as long as you apply the settings Marklin advise for the msD3 for use with SDS motors that are in the msD3 manual.
Offline Nigel Packer  
#39 Posted : 01 June 2020 23:58:22(UTC)
Nigel Packer

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 585
Location: Cheshire, UK
Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post
Dave, I don't know who owns a LokProgrammer near me. Let me ask 😊

Is there anybody with a LP in Suffolk, UK? Possibly in the Ipswitch area ?
Thank you

Let us see what happens now 🤞



I have one in Cheshire!

Nigel
Märklin collector since age 5.
H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#40 Posted : 02 June 2020 01:54:38(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,296
Location: New Zealand
I have an ESU Lokprogrammer, I'll see if I can read my 39120 with it.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#41 Posted : 02 June 2020 05:45:41(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,158
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post
I have no idea why I can't read CV8 with my EcOS either. Surely this is strange. I don't have another 21 pin decoder lying around to carry out this test.


If you are trying to do this on the main track then you cannot read any CV. You can only read them on the programming track.

Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post

Can I put any decoder I want on a SDS loco like my 39120 ? Just a question, not going to do it right now anyway.

You can certainly use any current Marklin or ESU decoder, as these both know about C-Sine motors. I don't know of any other brand that can drive a C-Sine motor, but there may be others that can.

Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post

This decoder, although I can change settings while on main track, does not comply with what I command it to do. I have to reset it after every CV I change because it simply drives like sh.t


Normally you do need to power down the loco for a lot of CV changes to take effect. Some that don't require it are the speed table CVs as I understand it.

Offline ocram63_uk  
#42 Posted : 02 June 2020 07:48:27(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 342
Location: England, Suffolk
Hi KiwiAlan, the ECOS offers the possibility to change CV values on the fly while the loco is running.
There are a set of pages that allow this for every setting the decoder has.
It works on all my other locos.
Maybe not doable on SDS engines?

If I want to read CVs I use the programming track, always.

The 39120 I bought used, it was stolen, I bought it again. Frankly I lost money doing this.
I really do not want to spend more on it, but I might have to. I just don't want to abuse of the patience of my wife :-)

I think Cheshire is not close to Suffolk, not unless they invent tele transport :-) but thank you very mich

Lesson learned from this? if they steal something from me ever again, forget about it!
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#43 Posted : 02 June 2020 10:23:29(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,296
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
If you are trying to do this on the main track then you cannot read any CV. You can only read them on the programming track.


My test was done with the loco on the programming track.
Offline H0  
#44 Posted : 03 June 2020 09:58:40(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,752
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Decoders that are factory placed into locos are well known to be locked, only basic things like address can be changed. That probably why they can't be read.
ESU mfx decoders shipped with Märklin locos are usually locked against sound updates, but CVs like motor settings and function outputs (intensity of lights) can be changed.

Nothing can be read in DCC or MM mode, but current values will show on the mfx programming screens.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#45 Posted : 03 June 2020 13:35:09(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,296
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
[Nothing can be read in DCC or MM mode, but current values will show on the mfx programming screens.


Yes, well I tried disabling each of the protocols in turn, only having one protocol active. I wasn't able to read CV8 with the Ecos with MM, mfx or DCC active.
Offline Rwill  
#46 Posted : 03 June 2020 14:07:03(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 603
Location: England, London
Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post
Dave, I don't know who owns a LokProgrammer near me. Let me ask 😊

Is there anybody with a LP in Suffolk, UK? Possibly in the Ipswitch area ?
Thank you

Let us see what happens now 🤞



Are you averse to calling in to DCC coastal in Ipswich?




Offline ocram63_uk  
#47 Posted : 03 June 2020 14:12:23(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 342
Location: England, Suffolk
sent them an email :-)
Offline ocram63_uk  
#48 Posted : 03 June 2020 15:16:23(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 342
Location: England, Suffolk
I placed on the layout the E18 10, 39680 loco. This one had the board replaced by Marklin some time ago as it has a sticker that reads 'csin3-122950'

Can't read any of the CVs in this decoder either. If I edit the motor parameters it 'jerks' on the layout.

So I guess it is a problem of mfx decoders + ECOS 2 and buying a LokProgrammer, only for these 2 locos, is out of the question :-)
Offline Dave Banks  
#49 Posted : 04 June 2020 01:38:31(UTC)
Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 971
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Marco I only found this regarding 'csin3-122950' : https://stummiforum.de/viewtopic.php?t=149986

Its such a pity you & Nigel live on opposite ends. There would be no point in buying any lokprogrammer etc for just two locos & especially one's that are most likely factory locked.

Dave...





D.A.Banks
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#50 Posted : 04 June 2020 11:35:30(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,296
Location: New Zealand
I got the Lokprogrammer out tonight and put the 39120 on the test stand with that connected to the Lokprogrammer. CV8 was not able to be read, but the ESU software was able to read all the settings out of the loco's decoder and save those to a file. I was also able to read the Decoder Information, and the decoder is indeed an ESU decoder - Lokpilot 3.0 M4.

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