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Offline Rwill  
#1 Posted : 12 June 2019 13:10:32(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 598
Location: England, London
You will regularly see on my hopelessly unprototypical layout one of my first Marklin purchases a consist of Sliberlinge coaches 4255/6/7 being pushed (pulled) by a little class 96 tank, a v60, or a Br216 and even on occasion Br218. Now notwithstanding that none of these may be "correct" I can never quite work out what the control cab is achieving. Is it manned by a driver or a guard. Is he just sending signals/instructions to lok driver or is he somehow remote controlling the lok or does he simply have an emergency brake when he can see disaster ahead?
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Offline Henrik Schütz  
#2 Posted : 12 June 2019 13:25:29(UTC)
Henrik Schütz

Sweden   
Joined: 04/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 42
Location: Stockholms Lan, Stockholm
Only Br216 and Br218, of your locos ran with control cab cars, Normaly the driver runs the train from the control cab, with a long cable/wire to the locomotive. The brakes are operated in the same way as when driven from the locomotive, with a valve.

Steamlocomotive BR23 did also run with silberlinge with drivers cab, then the driver braked in the normal way, but sent electric telegrams to an indicator in the locomotive, being red by the fireman, who regulated the machinery.

The cable was wery thick, and all intermediate cars needed to have it installed.

Today the connection is with computer telegrams througt the same UIC Cable used for doors and loudspeekers.

The modern system is standardized, you can run all equipped locomotives from all equipped cars witf a cab basically.

Henrik Schütz
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Offline TEEWolf  
#3 Posted : 12 June 2019 16:16:36(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,389
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
You will regularly see on my hopelessly unprototypical layout one of my first Marklin purchases a consist of Sliberlinge coaches 4255/6/7 being pushed (pulled) by a little class 96 tank, a v60, or a Br216 and even on occasion Br218. Now notwithstanding that none of these may be "correct" I can never quite work out what the control cab is achieving. Is it manned by a driver or a guard. Is he just sending signals/instructions to lok driver or is he somehow remote controlling the lok or does he simply have an emergency brake when he can see disaster ahead?


The driver in the controll cab is the engine driver himself from the loco. The control cab then is the "locomotive" with the same functions, even the loco works at the other end of the train. This is a so called push-pull train (German: Wendezug). Such trains are always used as shuttle trains without the possibility to turn around neither the complete train nor only the loco at their final stop station. In this contral cab car the engine driver does the same job as otherwise in the loco.
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#4 Posted : 12 June 2019 19:48:58(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,767
Location: Southwesternmost
Another contribution, ignoring electric locos: Photos of various steam locos with "Silberling-Wendezug" - see links below.

class 23 steamer
http://www.noetzel24.de/index.php?id=85

class 65 steamer (scroll down)
http://www.noetzel24.de/index.php?id=92

class 78 steamer
http://www.noetzel24.de/index.php?id=86

And as bonus one diesel - V100:
http://www.noetzel24.de/index.php?id=88
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Offline stockerta  
#5 Posted : 13 June 2019 18:19:47(UTC)
stockerta

Hungary   
Joined: 30/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 42
Location: Gyor-Moson-Sopron, Sopron
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Another contribution, ignoring electric locos: Photos of various steam locos with "Silberling-Wendezug" - see links below.

class 23 steamer
http://www.noetzel24.de/index.php?id=85

class 65 steamer (scroll down)
http://www.noetzel24.de/index.php?id=92

class 78 steamer
http://www.noetzel24.de/index.php?id=86

And as bonus one diesel - V100:
http://www.noetzel24.de/index.php?id=88


That mixed silberling - freight train with the V100 in the middle is very interesting. Huh
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Offline Gregor  
#6 Posted : 20 June 2019 17:16:35(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 937
Location: Netherlands
I liked this one a lot, and duplicated it on my layout:

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

Gregor
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Offline Bones  
#7 Posted : 23 June 2019 15:08:08(UTC)
Bones

Australia   
Joined: 15/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 67
Location: Queensland
Due to the reduction in man power and the removal of turntables it was easier to have a control cab in one of the carriages thus negating the need to turn the locomotive - IE
running the loco around the consist
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Offline kgsjoqvist  
#8 Posted : 24 June 2019 13:27:21(UTC)
kgsjoqvist

Sweden   
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 732
Location: Täby
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
You will regularly see on my hopelessly unprototypical layout one of my first Marklin purchases a consist of Sliberlinge coaches 4255/6/7 being pushed (pulled) by a little class 96 tank, a v60, or a Br216 and even on occasion Br218. Now notwithstanding that none of these may be "correct" I can never quite work out what the control cab is achieving. Is it manned by a driver or a guard. Is he just sending signals/instructions to lok driver or is he somehow remote controlling the lok or does he simply have an emergency brake when he can see disaster ahead?


The Br216 is more prototypical than the Br218 for pulling a Silberlinge train set. The reason is Br216 has a steam generator for heating passenger coaches (coaches designed for steam engines). Br218 is on the other hand equipped for electric heating of modern coaches.

K-G / H0 and Z model train user
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Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 24 June 2019 14:57:23(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,709
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kgsjoqvist Go to Quoted Post
Br218 is on the other hand equipped for electric heating of modern coaches.
Like modern Silberlinge coaches. Wink
I remember seeing BR 215 and BR 218 with Silberlinge coaches.

You can also see electric locos with Silberlinge coaches. And steam heating is rare with electric locos and I do not recall DB electric locos with steam heating.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline TEEWolf  
#10 Posted : 24 June 2019 16:09:58(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,389
Originally Posted by: kgsjoqvist Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
You will regularly see on my hopelessly unprototypical layout one of my first Marklin purchases a consist of Sliberlinge coaches 4255/6/7 being pushed (pulled) by a little class 96 tank, a v60, or a Br216 and even on occasion Br218. Now notwithstanding that none of these may be "correct" I can never quite work out what the control cab is achieving. Is it manned by a driver or a guard. Is he just sending signals/instructions to lok driver or is he somehow remote controlling the lok or does he simply have an emergency brake when he can see disaster ahead?


The Br216 is more prototypical than the Br218 for pulling a Silberlinge train set. The reason is Br216 has a steam generator for heating passenger coaches (coaches designed for steam engines). Br218 is on the other hand equipped for electric heating of modern coaches.



Blink Actually I traveld a lot through Germany in such Silberlinge. I never cared about the heating system in the coaches nor about the loco pushing or pulling the train. It had to be warm inside and it always was warm inside. In the Summer it even was too hot. Sometimes I wished an air condition on board of the coaches. But always I was looking, if the train was on time. Unfortunately in Germany this is too often not the case.

Always both heating systems were functioning perfectly. I see no differences in using a BR 216 or BR 218. But both engines were sometimes late.Flapper Laugh
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Offline TEEWolf  
#11 Posted : 24 June 2019 16:49:10(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,389
Originally Posted by: Bones Go to Quoted Post
Due to the reduction in man power and the removal of turntables it was easier to have a control cab in one of the carriages thus negating the need to turn the locomotive - IE
running the loco around the consist


The removal of turntables was a result of the end of the regular use of steamer engines for trains. Because the Diesel and E-locos do not seperate between a front or back end in Germany. But the steamer did, especially the once with a tender (Schlepptender), because they only could achieve their maximum speed running forwards with the front end and the tender behind.

The official end for a scheduled steamer use by the DB was October 26th, 1977 on the "Emslandbahn" with a train "Langer Heinrich"Wink. It was pulled by the steamer BR 043 903-4. This steamer shall be standing in front of the central station (no - not a CS 3 LOL ) in Emden.

https://www.ostfriesland...allok-emden-dampflok.php
(see the video from 1973 in this article as well)

Second reason was and is indeed the need of less personal, because using a train with a control cab coach needs no shunting and thereby no shunting personal at its turning point. Also no seperate track for relocation of the loco is needed. This is also a reason while today this train configuration is not longer only used for regional short distance trains. It is now also used by long distance trains, where an ICE is not in use. Compare the actual offer from Märklin with its Dosto (Doppelstockwaggons) for an IC 2.

Found another nice video for steamer lovers from the Deutsche Bahn in remembrance of the steamer time.

"What was it like - the steam engine?"



And one for our British friends.

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Offline mikemasey  
#12 Posted : 28 June 2019 12:46:50(UTC)
mikemasey

Australia   
Joined: 03/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 77
Hi RWILL,
I for one just love your "hopelessly unprototypical" layout as I regularly run a rake of Sliberlings behind a V200 or E110, or what ever takes my fancy that day!
I just assume its a preserved railway and if anyone says anything I politely ask them to leave.........




Theres no place for rivet counters in my station..
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Offline utkan  
#13 Posted : 28 June 2019 12:51:50(UTC)
utkan

Turkey   
Joined: 14/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 19,116
Location: Istanbul,
Originally Posted by: mikemasey Go to Quoted Post
Hi RWILL,
I for one just love your "hopelessly unprototypical" layout as I regularly run a rake of Sliberlings behind a V200 or E110, or what ever takes my fancy that day!
I just assume its a preserved railway and if anyone says anything I politely ask them to leave.........




Theres no place for rivet counters in my station..


Very well said...BigGrin ThumpUp

Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you...
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#14 Posted : 28 June 2019 13:00:19(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,767
Location: Southwesternmost
Originally Posted by: mikemasey Go to Quoted Post
Hi RWILL,
I for one just love your "hopelessly unprototypical" layout as I regularly run a rake of Sliberlings behind a V200 or E110, or what ever takes my fancy that day!
I just assume its a preserved railway and if anyone says anything I politely ask them to leave.........




Theres no place for rivet counters in my station..

Sorry, but maybe you qualify as rivet counter after all.

:o)

1982.04.14-02-19cuxhabni27.jpg
Cuxhaven, 1982

a_Z-EB-E-110-461-Bf-Voh-Silberlinge-WB-800-518.jpg
Wuppertal-Vohwinkel in the last millenium
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Offline TEEWolf  
#15 Posted : 28 June 2019 16:25:38(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,389
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mikemasey Go to Quoted Post
Hi RWILL,
I for one just love your "hopelessly unprototypical" layout as I regularly run a rake of Sliberlings behind a V200 or E110, or what ever takes my fancy that day!
I just assume its a preserved railway and if anyone says anything I politely ask them to leave.........




Theres no place for rivet counters in my station..

Sorry, but maybe you qualify as rivet counter after all.

:o)

1982.04.14-02-19cuxhabni27.jpg
Cuxhaven, 1982

a_Z-EB-E-110-461-Bf-Voh-Silberlinge-WB-800-518.jpg
Wuppertal-Vohwinkel in the last millenium


Thanks @Alsterstreek, very well and quick done. I remember I saw quite often and even traveled in Silberling trains pulled by a V 200 and/or a BR 110. And you had the pictures already.ThumpUp
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Offline Rwill  
#16 Posted : 28 June 2019 18:54:55(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 598
Location: England, London
Originally Posted by: mikemasey Go to Quoted Post
Hi RWILL,
I for one just love your "hopelessly unprototypical" layout as I regularly run a rake of Sliberlings behind a V200 or E110, or what ever takes my fancy that day!
I just assume its a preserved railway and if anyone says anything I politely ask them to leave.........

Theres no place for rivet counters in my station..



I am grateful for your tolerance however when I wrote the post I was looking down at a little Swedish lok pantographs in the air and not a overhead wire in sight pulling a consist of Dutch cement tanker, Danish Tuborg beer wagon, two Swiss freight cars a German tank car and German DHL container cat. We had era IV, V and V! at least and it was just passing through an English card kit station.


Now there is a challenge to find a real life photo of that!! I have to say it looked very good!
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Offline Minok  
#17 Posted : 28 June 2019 19:42:38(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,152
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Prototypical schmototypical.
It seems to be, that if the locomotives and wagons ever existed at the same time, there is a good chance someone at a railroad had them hooked up to each other at some point or another to build a train from what was available. Its all good.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
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Offline Rinus  
#18 Posted : 01 July 2019 20:47:58(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,720
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
The July edition of Eisenbahn Journal magazine focuses on this topic.

See https://shop.vgbahn.info/eisenbahn-journal/shop/eisenbahn+journal+7+2019-_4840.html

Rinus
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Offline TEEWolf  
#19 Posted : 01 July 2019 23:52:21(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,389
Originally Posted by: Rinus Go to Quoted Post
The July edition of Eisenbahn Journal magazine focuses on this topic.

See https://shop.vgbahn.info/eisenbahn-journal/shop/eisenbahn+journal+7+2019-_4840.html

Rinus


Almost Rinus almost. The "Eisenbahn Journal" 2019/07 article is less about Silberlinge but more about Push-and-Pull trains by steamer. And of course, most of the wagons has been Silberlinge at these days, so they are involved in the story.

2019-07 EJ Titel.jpg

Of interest may be, which steam locos were used by the DB for Push-and-Pull trains at these days. You will find an overview of the series of used steamer in this pdf-file.

2019-07 Eisenbahn Journal page 16.pdf (4,216kb) downloaded 44 time(s).
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Offline Rinus  
#20 Posted : 02 July 2019 21:12:27(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,720
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
I’m looking forward to the Eisenbahn Journal of July, but have not received it yet.

Got a similar question as Rwill: would it be more or less prototypical if my E44 would push a Silberlinge (Karlsruher Kopf) consist?

Or do I have to het a E41?

Rinus
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#21 Posted : 02 July 2019 21:35:38(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,767
Location: Southwesternmost
http://www.bundesbahnzeit.de/seite.php?id=538
posts 28 & 30

http://www.eisenbahnfoto...ok/galerie144/site10.htm
scroll down

Both sources state that some of these 144 (formerly E44) locos were equipped for push-pull service, and some were not. Either way, Silberling coaches were assigned to them. The last 144 were retired at the beginning of the 1980s, and during that period existed already Karlsruher Kopf coaches...
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Offline carlos.rivas.16752  
#22 Posted : 27 February 2020 15:04:38(UTC)
carlos.rivas.16752

Spain   
Joined: 08/04/2015(UTC)
Posts: 301
Location: Vigo, Spain
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post

1982.04.14-02-19cuxhabni27.jpg
Cuxhaven, 1982



V200 + Silberling.

One of the most beautiful consists ever IMHO.

Regards
Carlos

My blog both in Spanish and English: https://grunewiesen1965.wordpress.com
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Offline RayF  
#23 Posted : 27 February 2020 15:48:46(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,691
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Sorry to sidetrack, but I can't resist posting this image of a silberling pulled by a tiny E69. I plan to run this combination on my layout as it's so quirky!

UserPostedImage
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline hxmiesa  
#24 Posted : 27 February 2020 17:35:32(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,874
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Sorry to sidetrack, but I can't resist posting this image of a silberling pulled by a tiny E69. I plan to run this combination on my layout as it's so quirky!

I seem to remember...; There was an oficial Märklin train set with just that!

Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline TEEWolf  
#25 Posted : 27 February 2020 18:02:54(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,389
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Sorry to sidetrack, but I can't resist posting this image of a silberling pulled by a tiny E69. I plan to run this combination on my layout as it's so quirky!

UserPostedImage


Pauline on it's way to Murnau for its trip from Oberammergau, the E69 02 passes through Ohlstadt (28 5 1989). (It is the "Ammergaubahn"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammergau_Railway

a branch line of the main line Muenchen and Garmisch-Partenkirchen)

"Quirky" - learned a new word. Thanks. Compared to the picture above from Carlos (V200 and 2 Silberlinge) is it not normal? Anyway, it looks really cute this little "Pauline" (that was the name of the E 69 02 - later 169 002) and its big coach. ThumpUp

For many years Pauline (E 89 02) was the oldest E-loco for the DB. It was invalided out June. 29th 1982. Today it is in the DB Museum in Nuernberg, fully functionally.

Read more about the loco here, but only in GermanSad
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAG_1_bis_5
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Offline hxmiesa  
#26 Posted : 28 February 2020 09:29:02(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,874
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
I seem to remember...; There was an oficial Märklin train set with just that!

Set 28974
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline QQQ1970  
#27 Posted : 15 March 2020 13:49:07(UTC)
QQQ1970

Canada   
Joined: 06/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 249
Location: Ontario, Toronto
Does V200 use in push pull operations, or just pull the Silberlinge?
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Offline hxmiesa  
#28 Posted : 15 March 2020 18:31:44(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,874
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: QQQ1970 Go to Quoted Post
Does V200 use in push pull operations, or just pull the Silberlinge?

From German Wiki;
Quote:

Die Lokomotiven besaßen die „Vielfachsteuerung Bauart 1949“ (die spätere Konventionelle Wendezugsteuerung KWS, allerdings mit abweichender Belegung der 36 Adern im Steuerkabel) und waren damit wendezug- und mehrfachtraktionsfähig. Technisch konnten damit bis zu drei Lokomotiven gemeinsam gesteuert werden.

So; yes, push-pull able.
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline QQQ1970  
#29 Posted : 15 March 2020 18:53:10(UTC)
QQQ1970

Canada   
Joined: 06/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 249
Location: Ontario, Toronto
Thanks!
Offline H0  
#30 Posted : 15 March 2020 19:50:36(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,709
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: QQQ1970 Go to Quoted Post
Does V200 use in push pull operations, or just pull the Silberlinge?
Yes for V 200.0 and push/pull operation, no for V 200.1.
Witch version do you have?

Märklin made a starter set with a V 200.1 and a Silberling control car. That's typically Märklin. Prototypically correct as long as you just pull the train.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline mvd71  
#31 Posted : 15 March 2020 20:53:41(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,230
Location: Auckland,
Hi Tom,

For those of us with a number of V200's, how do we tell if we have a V 200.0. Or a V 200.1?

Cheers....

Mike
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Offline RayF  
#32 Posted : 15 March 2020 21:32:17(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,691
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Tom,

For those of us with a number of V200's, how do we tell if we have a V 200.0. Or a V 200.1?

Cheers....

Mike


V200.0
UserPostedImage

V200.1
UserPostedImage
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline QQQ1970  
#33 Posted : 16 March 2020 00:20:43(UTC)
QQQ1970

Canada   
Joined: 06/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 249
Location: Ontario, Toronto
From German Wiki on DB V200.0 and V200.1

V 200 001-086, ab 1968 220 001-086

V 200 101–150, ab 1968 221 101–150

The engine number tells whether it is V200.0 or V200.1
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Offline mvd71  
#34 Posted : 16 March 2020 08:51:05(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,230
Location: Auckland,
Thanks guys, that is really helpful 👍

Cheers.....

Mike
Offline mvd71  
#35 Posted : 16 March 2020 08:53:30(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,230
Location: Auckland,
Oops, double posted
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