Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline Rwill  
#1 Posted : 12 June 2019 13:10:32(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 539
Location: England, London
You will regularly see on my hopelessly unprototypical layout one of my first Marklin purchases a consist of Sliberlinge coaches 4255/6/7 being pushed (pulled) by a little class 96 tank, a v60, or a Br216 and even on occasion Br218. Now notwithstanding that none of these may be "correct" I can never quite work out what the control cab is achieving. Is it manned by a driver or a guard. Is he just sending signals/instructions to lok driver or is he somehow remote controlling the lok or does he simply have an emergency brake when he can see disaster ahead?
Offline Henrik Schütz  
#2 Posted : 12 June 2019 13:25:29(UTC)
Henrik Schütz

Sweden   
Joined: 04/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 35
Location: Stockholms Lan, Stockholm
Only Br216 and Br218, of your locos ran with control cab cars, Normaly the driver runs the train from the control cab, with a long cable/wire to the locomotive. The brakes are operated in the same way as when driven from the locomotive, with a valve.

Steamlocomotive BR23 did also run with silberlinge with drivers cab, then the driver braked in the normal way, but sent electric telegrams to an indicator in the locomotive, being red by the fireman, who regulated the machinery.

The cable was wery thick, and all intermediate cars needed to have it installed.

Today the connection is with computer telegrams througt the same UIC Cable used for doors and loudspeekers.

The modern system is standardized, you can run all equipped locomotives from all equipped cars witf a cab basically.

Henrik Schütz
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Henrik Schütz
Offline TEEWolf  
#3 Posted : 12 June 2019 16:16:36(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,877
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
You will regularly see on my hopelessly unprototypical layout one of my first Marklin purchases a consist of Sliberlinge coaches 4255/6/7 being pushed (pulled) by a little class 96 tank, a v60, or a Br216 and even on occasion Br218. Now notwithstanding that none of these may be "correct" I can never quite work out what the control cab is achieving. Is it manned by a driver or a guard. Is he just sending signals/instructions to lok driver or is he somehow remote controlling the lok or does he simply have an emergency brake when he can see disaster ahead?


The driver in the controll cab is the engine driver himself from the loco. The control cab then is the "locomotive" with the same functions, even the loco works at the other end of the train. This is a so called push-pull train (German: Wendezug). Such trains are always used as shuttle trains without the possibility to turn around neither the complete train nor only the loco at their final stop station. In this contral cab car the engine driver does the same job as otherwise in the loco.
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by TEEWolf
Offline Alsterstreek  
#4 Posted : 12 June 2019 19:48:58(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,527
Location: Southwesternmost
Another contribution, ignoring electric locos: Photos of various steam locos with "Silberling-Wendezug" - see links below.

class 23 steamer
http://www.noetzel24.de/index.php?id=85

class 65 steamer (scroll down)
http://www.noetzel24.de/index.php?id=92

class 78 steamer
http://www.noetzel24.de/index.php?id=86

And as bonus one diesel - V100:
http://www.noetzel24.de/index.php?id=88
thanks 7 users liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
Offline stockerta  
#5 Posted : 13 June 2019 18:19:47(UTC)
stockerta

Hungary   
Joined: 30/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 42
Location: Gyor-Moson-Sopron, Sopron
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Another contribution, ignoring electric locos: Photos of various steam locos with "Silberling-Wendezug" - see links below.

class 23 steamer
http://www.noetzel24.de/index.php?id=85

class 65 steamer (scroll down)
http://www.noetzel24.de/index.php?id=92

class 78 steamer
http://www.noetzel24.de/index.php?id=86

And as bonus one diesel - V100:
http://www.noetzel24.de/index.php?id=88


That mixed silberling - freight train with the V100 in the middle is very interesting. Huh
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by stockerta
Offline Gregor  
#6 Posted : 20 June 2019 17:16:35(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 897
Location: Netherlands
I liked this one a lot, and duplicated it on my layout:

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

Gregor
thanks 17 users liked this useful post by Gregor
Offline Bones  
#7 Posted : 23 June 2019 15:08:08(UTC)
Bones

Australia   
Joined: 15/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 53
Location: Queensland
Due to the reduction in man power and the removal of turntables it was easier to have a control cab in one of the carriages thus negating the need to turn the locomotive - IE
running the loco around the consist
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Bones
Offline kgsjoqvist  
#8 Posted : 24 June 2019 13:27:21(UTC)
kgsjoqvist

Sweden   
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 715
Location: Täby
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
You will regularly see on my hopelessly unprototypical layout one of my first Marklin purchases a consist of Sliberlinge coaches 4255/6/7 being pushed (pulled) by a little class 96 tank, a v60, or a Br216 and even on occasion Br218. Now notwithstanding that none of these may be "correct" I can never quite work out what the control cab is achieving. Is it manned by a driver or a guard. Is he just sending signals/instructions to lok driver or is he somehow remote controlling the lok or does he simply have an emergency brake when he can see disaster ahead?


The Br216 is more prototypical than the Br218 for pulling a Silberlinge train set. The reason is Br216 has a steam generator for heating passenger coaches (coaches designed for steam engines). Br218 is on the other hand equipped for electric heating of modern coaches.

K-G / H0 and Z model train user
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kgsjoqvist
Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 24 June 2019 14:57:23(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,499
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kgsjoqvist Go to Quoted Post
Br218 is on the other hand equipped for electric heating of modern coaches.
Like modern Silberlinge coaches. Wink
I remember seeing BR 215 and BR 218 with Silberlinge coaches.

You can also see electric locos with Silberlinge coaches. And steam heating is rare with electric locos and I do not recall DB electric locos with steam heating.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline TEEWolf  
#10 Posted : 24 June 2019 16:09:58(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,877
Originally Posted by: kgsjoqvist Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
You will regularly see on my hopelessly unprototypical layout one of my first Marklin purchases a consist of Sliberlinge coaches 4255/6/7 being pushed (pulled) by a little class 96 tank, a v60, or a Br216 and even on occasion Br218. Now notwithstanding that none of these may be "correct" I can never quite work out what the control cab is achieving. Is it manned by a driver or a guard. Is he just sending signals/instructions to lok driver or is he somehow remote controlling the lok or does he simply have an emergency brake when he can see disaster ahead?


The Br216 is more prototypical than the Br218 for pulling a Silberlinge train set. The reason is Br216 has a steam generator for heating passenger coaches (coaches designed for steam engines). Br218 is on the other hand equipped for electric heating of modern coaches.



Blink Actually I traveld a lot through Germany in such Silberlinge. I never cared about the heating system in the coaches nor about the loco pushing or pulling the train. It had to be warm inside and it always was warm inside. In the Summer it even was too hot. Sometimes I wished an air condition on board of the coaches. But always I was looking, if the train was on time. Unfortunately in Germany this is too often not the case.

Always both heating systems were functioning perfectly. I see no differences in using a BR 216 or BR 218. But both engines were sometimes late.Flapper Laugh
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline TEEWolf  
#11 Posted : 24 June 2019 16:49:10(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,877
Originally Posted by: Bones Go to Quoted Post
Due to the reduction in man power and the removal of turntables it was easier to have a control cab in one of the carriages thus negating the need to turn the locomotive - IE
running the loco around the consist


The removal of turntables was a result of the end of the regular use of steamer engines for trains. Because the Diesel and E-locos do not seperate between a front or back end in Germany. But the steamer did, especially the once with a tender (Schlepptender), because they only could achieve their maximum speed running forwards with the front end and the tender behind.

The official end for a scheduled steamer use by the DB was October 26th, 1977 on the "Emslandbahn" with a train "Langer Heinrich"Wink. It was pulled by the steamer BR 043 903-4. This steamer shall be standing in front of the central station (no - not a CS 3 LOL ) in Emden.

https://www.ostfriesland...allok-emden-dampflok.php
(see the video from 1973 in this article as well)

Second reason was and is indeed the need of less personal, because using a train with a control cab coach needs no shunting and thereby no shunting personal at its turning point. Also no seperate track for relocation of the loco is needed. This is also a reason while today this train configuration is not longer only used for regional short distance trains. It is now also used by long distance trains, where an ICE is not in use. Compare the actual offer from Märklin with its Dosto (Doppelstockwaggons) for an IC 2.

Found another nice video for steamer lovers from the Deutsche Bahn in remembrance of the steamer time.

"What was it like - the steam engine?"



And one for our British friends.

CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by TEEWolf
Offline mikemasey  
#12 Posted : 28 June 2019 12:46:50(UTC)
mikemasey

Australia   
Joined: 03/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 71
Hi RWILL,
I for one just love your "hopelessly unprototypical" layout as I regularly run a rake of Sliberlings behind a V200 or E110, or what ever takes my fancy that day!
I just assume its a preserved railway and if anyone says anything I politely ask them to leave.........




Theres no place for rivet counters in my station..
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by mikemasey
Offline utkan  
#13 Posted : 28 June 2019 12:51:50(UTC)
utkan

Turkey   
Joined: 14/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 19,116
Location: Istanbul,
Originally Posted by: mikemasey Go to Quoted Post
Hi RWILL,
I for one just love your "hopelessly unprototypical" layout as I regularly run a rake of Sliberlings behind a V200 or E110, or what ever takes my fancy that day!
I just assume its a preserved railway and if anyone says anything I politely ask them to leave.........




Theres no place for rivet counters in my station..


Very well said...BigGrin ThumpUp

Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you...
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by utkan
Offline Alsterstreek  
#14 Posted : 28 June 2019 13:00:19(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,527
Location: Southwesternmost
Originally Posted by: mikemasey Go to Quoted Post
Hi RWILL,
I for one just love your "hopelessly unprototypical" layout as I regularly run a rake of Sliberlings behind a V200 or E110, or what ever takes my fancy that day!
I just assume its a preserved railway and if anyone says anything I politely ask them to leave.........




Theres no place for rivet counters in my station..

Sorry, but maybe you qualify as rivet counter after all.

:o)

1982.04.14-02-19cuxhabni27.jpg
Cuxhaven, 1982

a_Z-EB-E-110-461-Bf-Voh-Silberlinge-WB-800-518.jpg
Wuppertal-Vohwinkel in the last millenium
thanks 9 users liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
Offline TEEWolf  
#15 Posted : 28 June 2019 16:25:38(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,877
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mikemasey Go to Quoted Post
Hi RWILL,
I for one just love your "hopelessly unprototypical" layout as I regularly run a rake of Sliberlings behind a V200 or E110, or what ever takes my fancy that day!
I just assume its a preserved railway and if anyone says anything I politely ask them to leave.........




Theres no place for rivet counters in my station..

Sorry, but maybe you qualify as rivet counter after all.

:o)

1982.04.14-02-19cuxhabni27.jpg
Cuxhaven, 1982

a_Z-EB-E-110-461-Bf-Voh-Silberlinge-WB-800-518.jpg
Wuppertal-Vohwinkel in the last millenium


Thanks @Alsterstreek, very well and quick done. I remember I saw quite often and even traveled in Silberling trains pulled by a V 200 and/or a BR 110. And you had the pictures already.ThumpUp
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by TEEWolf
Offline Rwill  
#16 Posted : 28 June 2019 18:54:55(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 539
Location: England, London
Originally Posted by: mikemasey Go to Quoted Post
Hi RWILL,
I for one just love your "hopelessly unprototypical" layout as I regularly run a rake of Sliberlings behind a V200 or E110, or what ever takes my fancy that day!
I just assume its a preserved railway and if anyone says anything I politely ask them to leave.........

Theres no place for rivet counters in my station..



I am grateful for your tolerance however when I wrote the post I was looking down at a little Swedish lok pantographs in the air and not a overhead wire in sight pulling a consist of Dutch cement tanker, Danish Tuborg beer wagon, two Swiss freight cars a German tank car and German DHL container cat. We had era IV, V and V! at least and it was just passing through an English card kit station.


Now there is a challenge to find a real life photo of that!! I have to say it looked very good!
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Rwill
Offline Minok  
#17 Posted : 28 June 2019 19:42:38(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,019
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Prototypical schmototypical.
It seems to be, that if the locomotives and wagons ever existed at the same time, there is a good chance someone at a railroad had them hooked up to each other at some point or another to build a train from what was available. Its all good.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by Minok
Offline Rinus  
#18 Posted : 01 July 2019 20:47:58(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,661
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
The July edition of Eisenbahn Journal magazine focuses on this topic.

See https://shop.vgbahn.info/eisenbahn-journal/shop/eisenbahn+journal+7+2019-_4840.html

Rinus
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Rinus
Offline TEEWolf  
#19 Posted : 01 July 2019 23:52:21(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,877
Originally Posted by: Rinus Go to Quoted Post
The July edition of Eisenbahn Journal magazine focuses on this topic.

See https://shop.vgbahn.info/eisenbahn-journal/shop/eisenbahn+journal+7+2019-_4840.html

Rinus


Almost Rinus almost. The "Eisenbahn Journal" 2019/07 article is less about Silberlinge but more about Push-and-Pull trains by steamer. And of course, most of the wagons has been Silberlinge at these days, so they are involved in the story.

2019-07 EJ Titel.jpg

Of interest may be, which steam locos were used by the DB for Push-and-Pull trains at these days. You will find an overview of the series of used steamer in this pdf-file.

2019-07 Eisenbahn Journal page 16.pdf (4,216kb) downloaded 27 time(s).
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by TEEWolf
Offline Rinus  
#20 Posted : 02 July 2019 21:12:27(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,661
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
I’m looking forward to the Eisenbahn Journal of July, but have not received it yet.

Got a similar question as Rwill: would it be more or less prototypical if my E44 would push a Silberlinge (Karlsruher Kopf) consist?

Or do I have to het a E41?

Rinus
Offline Alsterstreek  
#21 Posted : 02 July 2019 21:35:38(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,527
Location: Southwesternmost
http://www.bundesbahnzeit.de/seite.php?id=538
posts 28 & 30

http://www.eisenbahnfoto...ok/galerie144/site10.htm
scroll down

Both sources state that some of these 144 (formerly E44) locos were equipped for push-pull service, and some were not. Either way, Silberling coaches were assigned to them. The last 144 were retired at the beginning of the 1980s, and during that period existed already Karlsruher Kopf coaches...
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
Users browsing this topic
OceanSpiders 2.0
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2019, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.959 seconds.