You have been a member since:: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,278
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Originally Posted by: jvuye  Originally Posted by: Goofy Originally Posted by: jvuye You guys! You're asserting things you've not even verified yourself! Have you checked how the real engine looks? Have you seen it with your own eyes? I have seen and toured this loco in Erstfeld depot. And I can tell you've just made (big!) fools of yourselves !!   Here is a composite of the picture posted by Shannon and an official BBC factory drawing .  Get back on your little blue pills before you touch a model train again!  If you take look at prototype real photo you see the locomotive does looks more closer than in the drawing pictures. The distance between the wheels seems correct but the body in both end seems wrong drawing. de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_Fc_2x3/4 OK, now we have here a perfect example of cognitive dissonance! If you've made up your mind, don't you ever be distracted by the facts. I rest my case In the youtube by watch the video i can see clear that each of the end of the locomotive are closer than what it shows in drawing picture. Märklins model are too big distance and should be closer in fact. I believe Märklin focus too much on the narrow curve track R1 that is the problem and Märklin decides to increase distance the front pivot from the body. Your composite of the picture by focus on the front pivot seems wrong drawing. |
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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 Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,334
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Photoshop! |
Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.
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Joined: 27/01/2005(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: jvuye Originally Posted by: Unholz Originally Posted by: shannon The gap of model apparently is quite wide if compared to the pritotype.  ...and the gap even gets glaringly wider when the model runs through curves and turnouts.  I wonder why somebody at Märklin got the crazy idea to connect the "suitcases" to the axle mechanism instead of the body shell. On just about every long German steamer the front end with the buffers is also rigid and doesn't jump around like a rubber ball... https://www.youtube.com/...tVY&feature=emb_logo You guys! You're asserting things you've not even verified yourself! Have you checked how the real engine looks? Have you seen it with your own eyes? I have seen and toured this loco in Erstfeld depot. And I can tell you've just made (big!) fools of yourselves !! Here is a composite of the picture posted by Shannon and an official BBC factory drawing . Get back on your little blue pills before you touch a model train again! This picture of prototype showed the gap. You can judge which is wider or closer than marklin.  
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 3 users liked this useful post by shannon
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 Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,883 Location: South Western France
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Originally Posted by: shannon ....... This picture of prototype showed the gap. You can judge which is wider or closer than marklin. ... As I said, don't get disturbed by the facts!! |
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success! |
1 user liked this useful post by jvuye
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You have been a member since:: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,278
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Originally Posted by: jvuye Originally Posted by: shannon ....... This picture of prototype showed the gap. You can judge which is wider or closer than marklin. ... As I said, don't get disturbed by the facts!! The gap in prototype are smaller. To present in HO scale the gap will be much smaller than Märklin. In Märklin case they present larger scale in gap because of the narrow curve track R1, which are fantasy too. |
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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2 users liked this useful post by Goofy
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 Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,458 Location: Scotland
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I presume nobody actually has this loco. I also want to know if the number of rivets are correct. Lets be honest some will like it but the Marklin bashers never will.
Its not for me but that does not make it a bad model for others. |
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer. |
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 Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC) Posts: 777 Location: England, London
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I am a pensioner with relatively small Marklin disposable income. Yet every year egged on by this forum I follow the new items saga and dream of my purchases. This year "the little suitcases" more than caught my eye, but then so did the price so it was kind of forgotten until it came up on the forum a couple of months ago as imminent – isn’t that nearly a year after it was announced as a new item? So what appears to be normal for a high priced new item the criticism and failings get highlighted and I am no expert to join in the discussion – for me at these kind of prices I should expect perfection plus. So I shelve the dream again hoping that in six months to a year I may pick one up heavily discounted as it disappears from the current range and the "experts" have decided its broadly OK. I am not a MRR perfectionist – how can I be my layout is based on an MDF board with a few badly built building kits.
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2 users liked this useful post by Rwill
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Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,883 Location: South Western France
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I agree. Haters will be haters. And not surprizingly they are also completely ignorant or oblivious to the facts. Even an overlay of a model picture on an official factory drawing won't sway them. They never toured the factory and don't have a clue of what is involved to build these models. They have no clue on the complexity of designing such a model. They have never seen the real engine with their own eyes. Still they say it's wrong, and it's too expensive, and they elect not to notice the evidence they are presented with. You can decide how to call that. As I said, I rest my case. |
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success! |
5 users liked this useful post by jvuye
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You have been a member since:: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,278
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Originally Posted by: jvuye I agree. Haters will be haters. And not surprizingly they are also completely ignorant or oblivious to the facts. Even an overlay of a model picture on an official factory drawing won't sway them. They never toured the factory and don't have a clue of what is involved to build these models. They have no clue on the complexity of designing such a model. They have never seen the real engine with their own eyes. Still they say it's wrong, and it's too expensive, and they elect not to notice the evidence they are presented with. You can decide how to call that. As I said, I rest my case. But the haters do have right too. The problem are those who confuse. You did present a composite of picture, but this was made of Märklin. When you see a model you will start complain if there is fault and design flaws. I would not accept a model that cost nearly 600 euro and find out some faults even on the body. Even Märklin insider crocodile there was design flaw and also DB 103 extra lenght (windows). |
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DCC = Digital Command Control
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Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,334
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Trying to clarify a bit, I compared the photo of the model with the drawing. The way I try to show it is not super precise but gives an idea of what we are talking about. I used vertical bars in red to alighn both and be sure they are to the same scale. Doing it I confirmed the axles in the main body are compliant with the drawing. To the left the vertical bars in blue and orange show there is a small difference. For some this is a big problem, for others it is not so much as we are talking about a model that need to deal with R1.  Regards, Miguel |
Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.
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1 user liked this useful post by mbarreto
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 Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,436 Location: Switzerland
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Originally Posted by: jvuye They never toured the factory and don't have a clue of what is involved to build these models. They have no clue on the complexity of designing such a model. They have never seen the real engine with their own eyes. Still they say it's wrong, and it's too expensive, and they elect not to notice the evidence they are presented with. Dear Jacques, aren't you exaggerating a bit now?  After looking into my personal archives, I can assure you that I saw and photographed the prototype loco Ce 6/8 I 14201 for the first time in the year 1970 at Berne. That is almost 50 years ago... Since then, I have had numerous "reunions" with the machine - the most memorable one probably the trip over the Lötschberg and Simplon route to Domodossola in February 1976 with her "rescuer" Hans Schneeberger as driver in the cab. MY main criticism of Märklin's model is not the width of the gap between the front end of the cab and the rear of the "suitcases" - my concern is how ridiculous the model looks when it passes through curves and turnouts/points. All this bouncing and swaying is so utterly toy-like - and Märklin could easily have prevented this effect by simply attaching the "suitcases" alone firmly to the rest of the body. One doesn't need to have toured the factory at Göppingen to notice this - a pair of standard human eyes is sufficient.  If this factual observation makes me a hater, then so be it. 
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1 user liked this useful post by Unholz
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Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,883 Location: South Western France
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Originally Posted by: Unholz Originally Posted by: jvuye They never toured the factory and don't have a clue of what is involved to build these models. They have no clue on the complexity of designing such a model. They have never seen the real engine with their own eyes. Still they say it's wrong, and it's too expensive, and they elect not to notice the evidence they are presented with. Dear Jacques, aren't you exaggerating a bit now? After looking into my personal archives, I can assure you that I saw and photographed the prototype loco Ce 6/8 I 14201 for the first time in the year 1970 at Berne. That is almost 50 years ago... Since then, I have had numerous "reunions" with the machine - the most memorable one probably the trip over the Lötschberg and Simplon route to Domodossola in February 1976 with her "rescuer" Hans Schneeberger as driver in the cab. MY main criticism of Märklin's model is not the width of the gap between the front end of the cab and the rear of the "suitcases" - my concern is how ridiculous the model looks when it passes through curves and turnouts/points. All this bouncing and swaying is so utterly toy-like - and Märklin could easily have prevented this effect by simply attaching the "suitcases" alone firmly to the rest of the body. One doesn't need to have toured the factory at Göppingen to notice this - a pair of standard human eyes is sufficient. If this factual observation makes me a hater, then so be it. Ok Stefan! I know you had to be closer to the real thing than anybody else here. If anybody had to have seen it , it had to be you. One little detail that I hope you haven't missed is that they **actually** swing left to right on the real thing as they are mounted on the articulated half chassis. So Märklin must have been faced with the dilemma of choosing a design that would mimic the real loco, or make a longer body with the suitcases artificially attached and then cheating with the buffers'beam and couplers swinging underneath. That's is debatable, indeed. But personally I would have voted for the solution they chose in final analysis. FYI, Metropolitan did exactly the same thing on their reproduction, but it cannot be used on our "fantasy" layouts, unless you have infinite space.... One more detail that may have escaped to most: the Märklin model is supposed to present the situation as in 1919. That is before the small deflector plates were mounted on all 4 corners of the body work . I took a picture of these in 2008 (see attached) where they clearly show, while they were not present in the early years. 5as can be seen on the corresponding pictures earlier in this thread.  That may explain why the gap **looks** closer on some recent pictures than on the original ones and factory drawings Cheers Jacques |
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success! |
6 users liked this useful post by jvuye
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,480 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: Goofy
If you take look at prototype real photo you see the locomotive does looks more closer than in the drawing pictures.
The distance between the wheels seems correct but the body in both end seems wrong drawing.
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_Fc_2x3/4
But none of the photos I have seen look squarely at the side of the unit to show the gap. The videos referenced in various places are always an oblique view which doesn't give an eyeline through the gap either.
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1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
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 Joined: 04/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 76
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Originally Posted by: Goofy Originally Posted by: jvuye Originally Posted by: shannon ....... This picture of prototype showed the gap. You can judge which is wider or closer than marklin. ... As I said, don't get disturbed by the facts!! The gap in prototype are smaller. To present in HO scale the gap will be much smaller than Märklin. In Märklin case they present larger scale in gap because of the narrow curve track R1, which are fantasy too. The prototype photo is at an angle, of course the gap "looks" smaller. |
ETE - Swiss Era III - BLS - Brig Station |
2 users liked this useful post by midwestbls
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Joined: 04/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 76
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Don't like it ... don't buy it! Final analysis these are TOYS, models, reproductions, as close as can be ... and, yes, they have to work on ridiculously tight radii. EVERY model in the Marklin catalog has some compromise for function and manufacturing ability. There have been a number of "special" models - mostly steamers - where the minimum radius is R2, and I do wish M had manufactured to that spec with this one. I'm sure there's a bit of extra "looseness" to get it around a R1, but for heaven's sake folks...! This is such a stupid argument on a MODELING forum!
Most modern M-made DB passenger cars, even at less than 1:87 (1:93 or 1:98?! GASP! Horror!) look terrible rounding R2, if not R3. I was really proud of my extensive collection of TRUE 1:87 (303mm) Roco coaches, until I realized they looked even worse in an actual compressed modeling space than the "adjusted" models (1:100 or M's 1:93/98). The Roco's are now all sold and replaced with M versions. BTW, I also was really proud of my PROTOTYPICAL 2-rail DC models and track - I mean NO mainlines have little pieces of metal sticking up from or between every tie, right?! I switched to M/AC, 3-rail because it's just that much simpler for the modeler - especially one who has had to work with temporary layouts (C-Track!!!), and doesn't want to have to have an extra piece of wiring/equipment/relay/whatever, wherever you create a reverse loop ...
I've wanted a model of this "original crocodile" since I saw a friend's Metropolitan version on his DC layout 20 years ago, which as Jacques says has the kofferli prototypically mounted on the end axles which move independently around corners. I, too, prefer this prototypical approach that M has taken with the inherent compromises required of MODEL trains. Give me the prototypical design with a little extra gap! I ordered mine the first moment I saw it announced - I couldn't get my e-mail typed fast enough! |
ETE - Swiss Era III - BLS - Brig Station |
6 users liked this useful post by midwestbls
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Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,883 Location: South Western France
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Originally Posted by: midwestbls Originally Posted by: Goofy Originally Posted by: jvuye Originally Posted by: shannon ....... This picture of prototype showed the gap. You can judge which is wider or closer than marklin. ... As I said, don't get disturbed by the facts!! The gap in prototype are smaller. To present in HO scale the gap will be much smaller than Märklin. In Märklin case they present larger scale in gap because of the narrow curve track R1, which are fantasy too. The prototype photo is at an angle, of course the gap "looks" smaller. Yes. Thank You Bill! And these are pictures from the very early years of operation before the corner plates high lighted in my picture above were welded on the corners. Cheers Jacques |
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success! |
3 users liked this useful post by jvuye
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 Joined: 23/11/2004(UTC) Posts: 20 Location: Copenhagen,
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Hi I have just collected my crocodile, and I am very satisfied. This is a beauty, and it runs smoothly. The picture shows the locomotive in almost the same angle as the prototypes shown and in post #8, I can't see the difference, and this I mine  However, I can't see the missing landscape either, some might say!  Cheers |
Cheers,
Bent |
9 users liked this useful post by Bent
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Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,458 Location: Scotland
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Originally Posted by: Bent Hi I have just collected my crocodile, and I am very satisfied. This is a beauty, and it runs smoothly. The picture shows the locomotive in almost the same angle as the prototypes shown and in post #8, I can't see the difference, and this I mine However, I can't see the missing landscape either, some might say! Cheers Enjoy your model and forget the Marklin bashers. They wont buy it but plenty will and their opinion is the important one. Can you give us a video of the model running which would be great. |
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer. |
2 users liked this useful post by David Dewar
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 Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC) Posts: 609 Location: Toronto, Ontario
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I am looking forward to receiving mine. I learned more about the locomotive from this thread. In addition, I also learned the following:
In the field of psychology, cognitive dissonance occurs when a person holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values, or participates in an action that goes against one of these three, and experiences psychological stress because of that. When two actions or ideas are not psychologically consistent with each other, people will do all in their power to change them until they become consistent.[1] The discomfort is triggered by the person's belief clashing with new evidence (facts) perceived, wherein they will try to find a way to resolve the contradiction to reduce their discomfort.[2][1]
In A Theory of Cognitive Dissonance (1957), Leon Festinger proposed that human beings strive for internal psychological consistency to function mentally in the real world. A person who experiences internal inconsistency tends to become psychologically uncomfortable and is motivated to reduce the cognitive dissonance. They tend to make changes to justify the stressful behavior, either by adding new parts to the cognition causing the psychological dissonance or by avoiding circumstances and contradictory information likely to increase the magnitude of the cognitive dissonance.[2]
I had never heard the term before - thanks.
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2 users liked this useful post by jcrtrains
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Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,802 Location: Crozet, Virginia
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Originally Posted by: Bent Hi
I have just collected my crocodile, and I am very satisfied. This is a beauty, and it runs smoothly.
Cheers Wow - that looks very, very nice Bent. You are correct that it is a real beauty and for me all of that worry about the dreaded gap seem way overblown. I am eager to receive mine but it will most likely be a good while yet, so I appreciate seeing images.  |
Regards,
Jim
I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time. |
2 users liked this useful post by dickinsonj
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Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,883 Location: South Western France
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Originally Posted by: jcrtrains I am looking forward to receiving mine. I learned more about the locomotive from this thread. In addition, I also learned the following:
In the field of psychology, cognitive dissonance occurs when a person holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values, or participates in an action that goes against one of these three, and experiences psychological stress because of that. When two actions or ideas are not psychologically consistent with each other, people will do all in their power to change them until they become consistent.[1] The discomfort is triggered by the person's belief clashing with new evidence (facts) perceived, wherein they will try to find a way to resolve the contradiction to reduce their discomfort.[2][1]
In A Theory of Cognitive Dissonance (1957), Leon Festinger proposed that human beings strive for internal psychological consistency to function mentally in the real world. A person who experiences internal inconsistency tends to become psychologically uncomfortable and is motivated to reduce the cognitive dissonance. They tend to make changes to justify the stressful behavior, either by adding new parts to the cognition causing the psychological dissonance or by avoiding circumstances and contradictory information likely to increase the magnitude of the cognitive dissonance.[2]
I had never heard the term before - thanks. I know this is totally off subject and I apologize for the soap boxing. A big part of the current media/political/advertisement:communication strategies (wether commercial, political or others) are based on that principle. First step is to create the perception that there is a problem (creating discomfort/anxiety/anger) , eventually by repeating many times the same "information" Second step is to present a solution to resolve /mitigate the problem. This is when sometimes the providential man/product/law "who will save the day" will be pushed forward Step 3 is "impregnation campaign " to confirm acceptance and create the perception that the purported "problem" has being cured. We can look around in our day to day lives , this is what medias are living from...and this is why we should always be weary of "providential products/solutions/people/changes" End of soapboxing..my trains are waiting |
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success! |
4 users liked this useful post by jvuye
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You have been a member since:: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,278
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Originally Posted by: Bent Hi I have just collected my crocodile, and I am very satisfied. This is a beauty, and it runs smoothly. The picture shows the locomotive in almost the same angle as the prototypes shown and in post #8, I can't see the difference, and this I mine However, I can't see the missing landscape either, some might say! Cheers Can you take a picture of the model side of it? |
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DCC = Digital Command Control
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You have been a member since:: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,278
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Originally Posted by: jvuye Originally Posted by: jcrtrains I am looking forward to receiving mine. I learned more about the locomotive from this thread. In addition, I also learned the following:
In the field of psychology, cognitive dissonance occurs when a person holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values, or participates in an action that goes against one of these three, and experiences psychological stress because of that. When two actions or ideas are not psychologically consistent with each other, people will do all in their power to change them until they become consistent.[1] The discomfort is triggered by the person's belief clashing with new evidence (facts) perceived, wherein they will try to find a way to resolve the contradiction to reduce their discomfort.[2][1]
In A Theory of Cognitive Dissonance (1957), Leon Festinger proposed that human beings strive for internal psychological consistency to function mentally in the real world. A person who experiences internal inconsistency tends to become psychologically uncomfortable and is motivated to reduce the cognitive dissonance. They tend to make changes to justify the stressful behavior, either by adding new parts to the cognition causing the psychological dissonance or by avoiding circumstances and contradictory information likely to increase the magnitude of the cognitive dissonance.[2]
I had never heard the term before - thanks. I know this is totally off subject and I apologize for the soap boxing. A big part of the current media/political/advertisement:communication strategies (wether commercial, political or others) are based on that principle. First step is to create the perception that there is a problem (creating discomfort/anxiety/anger) , eventually by repeating many times the same "information" Second step is to present a solution to resolve /mitigate the problem. This is when sometimes the providential man/product/law "who will save the day" will be pushed forward Step 3 is "impregnation campaign " to confirm acceptance and create the perception that the purported "problem" has being cured. We can look around in our day to day lives , this is what medias are living from...and this is why we should always be weary of "providential products/solutions/people/changes" End of soapboxing..my trains are waiting If you want to discuss about physical "brain" condition, you can do it in another thread like NMR. |
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DCC = Digital Command Control
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 Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC) Posts: 623 Location: Athens
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Dear Friends
Sorry but I can't understand the reason for this conversation.
I think that is pointless
1. Nothing in model railway is truly to scale (the turnouts the curves etc) If somebody has a Märklin layout in exact scale please let us know.
2. The models must run, going on curves, on turnouts and stay on the rails. Are not presentation items for most of us but working one's
3. Maybe Märklin is not exactly in scale with the prototype.
4. To much for a loco that we haven't seen yet. I am waiting to keep my hands on....
5. IF YOU THINK THAT IS NOT RIGHT IN SCALE OR IN PRICE SIMPLY DON"T BUY IT.
6. There are hundreds of railway model makers, better or worse than Μärklin. If you don't like Marklin models go for something else.
7. Is really bad in a specialized site (Märklin-users.net) to wright only negative posts.
Waiting the Beautiful Fc 2x3/4
Best Regards
Costas
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10 users liked this useful post by ktsolias
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Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,458 Location: Scotland
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Originally Posted by: ktsolias Dear Friends
Sorry but I can't understand the reason for this conversation.
I think that is pointless
1. Nothing in model railway is truly to scale (the turnouts the curves etc) If somebody has a Märklin layout in exact scale please let us know.
2. The models must run, going on curves, on turnouts and stay on the rails. Are not presentation items for most of us but working one's
3. Maybe Märklin is not exactly in scale with the prototype.
4. To much for a loco that we haven't seen yet. I am waiting to keep my hands on....
5. IF YOU THINK THAT IS NOT RIGHT IN SCALE OR IN PRICE SIMPLY DON"T BUY IT.
6. There are hundreds of railway model makers, better or worse than Μärklin. If you don't like Marklin models go for something else.
7. Is really bad in a specialized site (Märklin-users.net) to wright only negative posts.
Waiting the Beautiful Fc 2x3/4
Best Regards
Costas
Good post. Anti Marklin folk (not many thankfully) will always look to rubbish a Marklin product. Point five you make is right. just don't buy it. There are faults with some Marklin products as with all model rail stuff but I don't get why join a Marklin site if you never appear to like anything made by Marklin and promote other items. I also like Brawa and Roco but they also are not perfect. I totally agree with your point 7 above although if you buy a model and find a genuine fault then it is useful to discuss it for the benefit of others. Enjoy your model. David |
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer. |
6 users liked this useful post by David Dewar
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Joined: 02/03/2011(UTC)
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Location: Schistad
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Hi, Other vendors also have a large distance between the ”suitcases” and loco body. See the attached picture of the Fulgurex model:  I have ordered the model and look forward to receiving this “crocodile ancestor”. Bernhard
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6 users liked this useful post by Schistad
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Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,334
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The problem is R1 and sometimes R2, not the model...
:)
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Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.
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5 users liked this useful post by mbarreto
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Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,883 Location: South Western France
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Originally Posted by: Schistad Hi,
Other vendors also have a large distance between the ”suitcases” and loco body. See the attached picture of the Fulgurex model:
....
I have ordered the model and look forward to receiving this “crocodile ancestor”.
Bernhard
yes, "ancestor" But in fact the Ce 6/8 II went into service even before this one. It had a "cousin" from the same constructor, the Be 4/6 which was originally used for passenger/express trains It shared a large number of components: motors, electromechnical switches, etc. The Be 4/6 was produced in series,and kept in service for over 65 years . That allowed the SBB to keep the Ce 6/8 I Köfferli operational for the same time because it could benefit from the spares supplies from their "cousins's" stock At the end of its career, it was used for a series of brake tests. At the heart of this was Mr Hans Schneeberger, SBB chief traction engineer who literally saved this grandmother from being dismantled. Both the engineer and the loco have reached the "legend" status by all afficionaos of Swiss trains. So, this Märklin model is certainly welcome! |
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success! |
6 users liked this useful post by jvuye
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Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,802 Location: Crozet, Virginia
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Originally Posted by: jvuye
Both the engineer and the loco have reached the "legend" status by all aficionados of Swiss trains.
So, this Märklin model is certainly welcome!
My crocs and I are all eagerly awaiting the arrival of our Fc 2x3/4 I think that it looks great from the little that I have seen so far. I agree that it is odd that it is being delivered now and they still have only shown two photos of the model and a couple of engineering prototypes. But with the high regard I have for my crocs I could not pass up getting a cousin to help fill out my Swill loco roster and this seems like just the thing. |
Regards,
Jim
I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time. |
3 users liked this useful post by dickinsonj
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Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,334
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One thing strange about this item is Märklin doesn't have a specific video about it yet (as far as I know).
The RAm, S3/6, 241 and also the Fall new items V200 and its set have dedicated videos in the M youtube channel.
Regards,
Miguel
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Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.
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1 user liked this useful post by mbarreto
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 Joined: 08/08/2009(UTC) Posts: 258
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Originally Posted by: mbarreto
One thing strange about this item is Märklin doesn't have a specific video about it yet (as far as I know).
The RAm, S3/6, 241 and also the Fall new items V200 and its set have dedicated videos in the M youtube channel.
Regards,
Miguel
Hallo! Does anyone know where it is manufactured?? Is it in Göppingen Györ or in far East by an other manufacturer?? I dont know if Märklin makes models in far East any more time?? I have preordered the modell and looking forward to get it! It looks really good on the pictures!!!  Regards Bertil. |
- since my lack in english I don't write so much here.. but learn by trying right? :) -
//Bertil |
3 users liked this useful post by Herrfleck
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 Joined: 13/05/2002(UTC) Posts: 676
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*Bart |
10 users liked this useful post by Bart
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 Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,870 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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Originally Posted by: Bart Looks great in operation! Thanks for sharing the videos! |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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2 users liked this useful post by RayF
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Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,458 Location: Scotland
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Good videos. Enjoy the model and ignore the usual suspects who just don't like Marklin. Not my type of model but good to see it selling and those buying are pleased with it. |
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer. |
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Joined: 08/08/2009(UTC) Posts: 258
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Hello! Its now green on märklins HomePage ! They have it in stock! Is that the same as it is shipped to all who has preorder it??? Hoppe that!  Regards Bertil |
- since my lack in english I don't write so much here.. but learn by trying right? :) -
//Bertil |
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Joined: 13/05/2002(UTC) Posts: 676
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Just arrived! I'm very happy with the model  The 'Köfferli gap' is really decent when static Märklin really did their best to solve the Köfferli problem, designing a swivel mechanism like they do with short couplers: the spring-loadded, heart-shaped opening pulls the Köfferli in when on straight track, and allows more distance in curves. in:  out:  curve:  Top view in:  out:  curve:  I just could have 2 suggestions for a follow-up model: 1. The spring is quite weak, and the Köfferli bogie tends not to be retracted as much as it could. I will experiment with more tension. 2. Since the couplers are part of the Köfferli bogie, I expect it will be pulled out when hauling wagons, even on straight track. Test drive will follow.... In the future, one may think of mounting the Köfferli on a separate, sliding bottom plate resting on the bogie, which will extend and swivel in curves, but not as much as the bogie itself. |
*Bart |
12 users liked this useful post by Bart
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RayF, mrmarklin, David Dewar, Herrfleck, ktsolias, mbarreto, esgovipa, dickinsonj, grnwtrs, Bent, hvc, midwestbls
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Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,883 Location: South Western France
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Thanks Bart!
Can't wait to see mine!! |
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success! |
1 user liked this useful post by jvuye
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Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,334
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Hi, I also thank Bart about the photos, they really show a lot about the croc. Several days ago I wrote in this thread: Originally Posted by: mbarreto Maybe something like the mechanisms used in the close couplers that can extend the distance between the central body and the extremes when the locmotive is in the curves would have a better visual effect.
I don't know if this type of solution would work without derrailling the locomotive when pulling many wagons...
After seeing the pictures from Bart, I must say that my thoughts previously posted were used by Märklin in anticipation. They are lucky I didn't register a patent Of course in Erstfeld, as a member wrote before, they need to implement R1. At least a circle with pukos and non operating catenary. After that they will probably need to do some upgrades to the real locomotive but that will be easy as it is just to implement in 87:1 what Märklin already did :) Regards, Miguel |
Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.
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Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,883 Location: South Western France
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Originally Posted by: Bart Just arrived! I'm very happy with the model The 'Köfferli gap' is really decent when static Märklin really did their best to solve the Köfferli problem, designing a swivel mechanism like they do with short couplers: the spring-loadded, heart-shaped opening pulls the Köfferli in when on straight track, and allows more distance in curves. in: ..... I just could have 2 suggestions for a follow-up model: 1. The spring is quite weak, and the Köfferli bogie tends not to be retracted as much as it could. I will experiment with more tension. 2. Since the couplers are part of the Köfferli bogie, I expect it will be pulled out when hauling wagons, even on straight track. Test drive will follow.... In the future, one may think of mounting the Köfferli on a separate, sliding bottom plate resting on the bogie, which will extend and swivel in curves, but not as much as the bogie itself. I just looked at Bart's pictures once again. Honestly, I think Märklin went out of their way to make the loco look like the real thing in straight alignments and sharp curves, and found a very smart solution for rthe small radius curves that are simply a (non prototypical...) reality on most layouts Seeing the way the articulations and the guiding mechanisms are conceived it wouldn't cause undue spacing, even with a heavy train. I was a very vocal critic when they came out with the RAe Gottardo (and still am!!) because clearly they did not really try very hard , while the 1970's Ram TEE (later Northlander) had a visually much more satisfying solution. And they had already produced other very acceptable solutions where they could find inspiration from (like the DB ICE 1, 2 and 3 sets for instance) |
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success! |
4 users liked this useful post by jvuye
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 Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,875 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
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Unless I've missed it, the only problem for me is, it only comes in 1 version with sound but these days a build in sound decoder isn't as expensive when you buy a separate sound decoder (ESU) and than there is the added problem can you find the prototypical sound for it or would you use a Crocodile sound file ? other manufacturers give you the choice of: analog but with a DCC decoder socket, DCC with or without sound. some of my conversions (36000 models) gave me the opportunity to add a sound decoder myself, in hind side I don't think I've gained anything in price except all my sound decoders are from ESU.
I also read comments whereas the modeller doesn't like sound decoders but likes the model itself and may not buy it because of its cost and its sound decoder and from a selling point Märklin may has restricted its potential buyers., the same could be said about the french steam loco but having a sound decoder for a steam loco is a different cattle of fish for me.
There is a strong message from Märklin, pay up or shut up.
John
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Joined: 23/11/2004(UTC) Posts: 20 Location: Copenhagen,
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Originally Posted by: David Dewar
Enjoy your model and forget the Marklin bashers. They wont buy it but plenty will and their opinion is the important one.
Can you give us a video of the model running which would be great.
Thanks David Sorry I first reply now, December has been busy. I still have to learn how to upload a video  , and I can see that Bart has already linked to some good videos. I am still enjoying my croc :-) |
Cheers,
Bent |
2 users liked this useful post by Bent
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Joined: 23/11/2004(UTC) Posts: 20 Location: Copenhagen,
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Originally Posted by: Goofy Originally Posted by: Bent Hi
Can you take a picture of the model side of it?
Hi Goofy When I took the picture I deliberately took it from this angle, since there were plenty of pictures from the side of the model, and only a few, if any from the side front. However pictures from the prototype, were taken from almost the same angle as I tried to. |
Cheers,
Bent |
1 user liked this useful post by Bent
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Joined: 04/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 76
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Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Originally Posted by: mbarreto
One thing strange about this item is Märklin doesn't have a specific video about it yet (as far as I know).
The RAm, S3/6, 241 and also the Fall new items V200 and its set have dedicated videos in the M youtube channel.
Regards,
Miguel
Hallo! Does anyone know where it is manufactured?? Is it in Göppingen Györ or in far East by an other manufacturer?? I dont know if Märklin makes models in far East any more time?? I have preordered the modell and looking forward to get it! It looks really good on the pictures!!! Regards Bertil. Just received mine ... "MADE IN CHINA". Generally, I have no problem with this and have a number of beautiful M models made in China. And this is a beautiful model - I'm very pleased with it. BUT for a new-tooling, special, new, highly desired, expensive model, why not make in Germany or Hungary?! It's all perception, but I'm very surprised for a model like this ... |
ETE - Swiss Era III - BLS - Brig Station |
3 users liked this useful post by midwestbls
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Joined: 08/08/2009(UTC) Posts: 258
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Originally Posted by: midwestbls Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Originally Posted by: mbarreto
One thing strange about this item is Märklin doesn't have a specific video about it yet (as far as I know).
The RAm, S3/6, 241 and also the Fall new items V200 and its set have dedicated videos in the M youtube channel.
Regards,
Miguel
Hallo! Does anyone know where it is manufactured?? Is it in Göppingen Györ or in far East by an other manufacturer?? I dont know if Märklin makes models in far East any more time?? I have preordered the modell and looking forward to get it! It looks really good on the pictures!!! Regards Bertil. Just received mine ... "MADE IN CHINA". Generally, I have no problem with this and have a number of beautiful M models made in China. And this is a beautiful model - I'm very pleased with it. BUT for a new-tooling, special, new, highly desired, expensive model, why not make in Germany or Hungary?! It's all perception, but I'm very surprised for a model like this ... Hello! I must say I am very disiponted at Märklin!! Regards Bertil. |
- since my lack in english I don't write so much here.. but learn by trying right? :) -
//Bertil |
1 user liked this useful post by Herrfleck
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Joined: 08/08/2009(UTC) Posts: 258
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Hello!
At picture in post 86 from member Bert.
At the bottom off the loko looks like it is broken or at least strange in casting???
Regards
Bertil.
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- since my lack in english I don't write so much here.. but learn by trying right? :) -
//Bertil |
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Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
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Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Hello!
I must say I am very disiponted at Märklin!!
Regards
Bertil. Why and about what are you disappointed? What had Maerklin done to you?
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You have been a member since:: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,278
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Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Hello!
I must say I am very disiponted at Märklin!!
Regards
Bertil. Why and about what are you disappointed? What had Maerklin done to you? Made in China TEEWolf?? Of course i am disappointed too! Didn´t Märklin verified to stop produce train models in China? I did had problem with the BR 64 made of Märklin in China and it was horrible. Are swiss model 39520 really made in China!??  |
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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3 users liked this useful post by Goofy
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Joined: 08/08/2009(UTC) Posts: 258
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Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Hello!
I must say I am very disiponted at Märklin!!
Regards
Bertil. Why and about what are you disappointed? What had Maerklin done to you? I dont like that they selling a märklin produkt in premium price! And its not made in by märklin factory! I can take that they sell pruducts like cheaper 36xxx lokos that is made by another manufakturer. Butt not a premium modell fot 570 euro.............  |
- since my lack in english I don't write so much here.. but learn by trying right? :) -
//Bertil |
1 user liked this useful post by Herrfleck
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You have been a member since:: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,278
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I agree with Herrfleck! It is not fair if a model made in cheap country sells at higher price than what it should cost at lesser price instead. But are midwestbls right about made in China? |
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Hello!
I must say I am very disiponted at Märklin!!
Regards
Bertil. Why and about what are you disappointed? What had Maerklin done to you? I dont like that they selling a märklin produkt in premium price! And its not made in by märklin factory! I can take that they sell pruducts like cheaper 36xxx lokos that is made by another manufakturer. Butt not a premium modell fot 570 euro............. Well for me it is not important where it is produced. The overall price/performance ratio and the product quality had to achieve my suggestions. Indeed this loco is high priced, but the S 3/6 (39436) - I guess was made in China probably too - was also high priced. But it is a real valuable nice loco, which I bought. The prior "Made in xxx-country" meanwhile is superseded by a "Made by "xxx-company". I think the quality of Maerklin was not bad anytime and has increased in the last years as well. Sometimes, I think a bit lower quality for a lower price would be more helpful. But it is as it is. But very high quality had the last insider models. I would recommend to buy one of these ones. Also I read Maerklin assures all Insider models are completely only produced in Goeppingen. BTW this might be a major reason for myself to buy the new TEE RAm.
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