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Offline H0  
#151 Posted : 09 January 2020 08:20:13(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,585
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
It is boaring to hear agin and again and again every time what has happened ages ago. If somebody is frightend about any product, then just do not buy it. Live can be very easy.
It is also boring to hear from Märklin again and again how bad the quality of items made in China was and that they are bringing production back to Europe (where "bringing back" means that former "Made in Germany" and intermittent "Made in China" becomes "Made in Hungary").

Märklin are very secretive with their ongoing China production and very notorious with their ongoing China bashing. This explains the highly emotional reaction of some Märklin fans when another "Made in China" sticker is shown on this forum.

MRR is an emotional hobby. IMHO too many Märklin fans believe that production in China ended long ago, thanks to Mother M*'s ongoing China bashing - and it's good those folks hear the truth from time to time.

BTW: We heard several times here that people have fewer production faults with Märklin "Made in China" than with Märklin "Made in Hungary". Yes, Quality Assurance is a big topic. A big topic for Märklin.

IIRC all Autumn surprise models from Märklin were made in China, so this one perfectly suits the line. There should be no risk of Zinkpest.
But will spare parts (motors) still be available in five or ten years?

The model looks nice and seems to drive well. Let's get back to discussing the model. It doesn't really matter where it was made. Don't buy Märklin if you do not want "Made in China".
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Unholz  
#152 Posted : 09 January 2020 09:03:59(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,141
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

But will spare parts (motors) still be available in five or ten years?

Who knows? Wink I hope it doesn't mean anything that currently most of the parts are not yet available: https://www.maerklin.de/de/produkte/details/article/39520/

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Offline Goofy  
#153 Posted : 09 January 2020 11:20:14(UTC)
Goofy

Sweden   
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,226
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

It is now confirm made in China by cheap chinise workers with low payment.


And you know this how? What evidence do you have for this statement?

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

The prices of the locomotive is however too high to be made in China.


And what evidence do you have for this statement?



Why do Märklin produce expensive train models in China?
Because of the cheap chinese worker.

Cool



DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline Unholz  
#154 Posted : 09 January 2020 14:45:36(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,141
Location: Switzerland
According to this very recent post in the Stummi forum (which will of course have to be verified), NO spare parts other than those currently listed on Märklin's website will ever be available for the 39520. A German dealer therefore recommends buying a second unit if you want ample spares. LOL https://www.stummiforum.de/viewt...c.php?p=2059687#p2059687

In the same Stummi thread, one member also points out that the pantographs not only have a unique design but are also screwed to the roof in a most unusual manner. A replacement by other Märklin or Sommerfeldt products does not seem easily possible. However, Märklin appears to be thinking about an add-on wide "wiper" so that the model could be used unter catenary.
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Offline Goofy  
#155 Posted : 09 January 2020 14:56:54(UTC)
Goofy

Sweden   
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,226
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
According to this very recent post in the Stummi forum (which will of course have to be verified), NO spare parts other than those currently listed on Märklin's website will ever be available for the 39520. A German dealer therefore recommends buying a second unit if you want ample spares. LOL https://www.stummiforum.de/viewt...c.php?p=2059687#p2059687

In the same Stummi thread, one member also points out that the pantographs not only have a unique design but are also screwed to the roof in a most unusual manner. A replacement by other Märklin or Sommerfeldt products does not seem easily possible. However, Märklin appears to be thinking about an add-on wide "wiper" so that the model could be used unter catenary.


And the model cost about 589,00 euro...made in cheap country!

LOL LOL

DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline 60904  
#156 Posted : 09 January 2020 19:24:11(UTC)
60904

Germany   
Joined: 27/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 268
Well, having made bad experience with models from China, I think I am allowed to be worried and give my comment on the firm's policy.
Greetings
Martin
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#157 Posted : 09 January 2020 23:38:13(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined:: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,810
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
According to this very recent post in the Stummi forum (which will of course have to be verified), NO spare parts other than those currently listed on Märklin's website will ever be available for the 39520. A German dealer therefore recommends buying a second unit if you want ample spares. LOL https://www.stummiforum.de/viewt...c.php?p=2059687#p2059687

In the same Stummi thread, one member also points out that the pantographs not only have a unique design but are also screwed to the roof in a most unusual manner. A replacement by other Märklin or Sommerfeldt products does not seem easily possible. However, Märklin appears to be thinking about an add-on wide "wiper" so that the model could be used unter catenary.


And the model cost about 589,00 euro...made in cheap country!

LOL LOL



Oh, so about the same price and made in the same country as your ipad that you mentioned in another thread.

You keep talking about cheap workers and cheap country, but never offer any evidence. What you reply to my post further up this thread is not evidence. You just keep putting more noise on the thread without anything substantial to back it up. You really are living up to your non-de-plume.

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Offline TEEWolf  
#158 Posted : 10 January 2020 01:40:20(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,156
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

Why do Märklin produce expensive train models in China?
Because of the cheap chinese worker.

Cool


Goofy you forgot:

,,, and for the rich Swedish buyers Cool to susidize Maerklins profit rate.LOL LOL LOL
CS 3 is a controlling station from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline Goofy  
#159 Posted : 10 January 2020 09:20:52(UTC)
Goofy

Sweden   
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,226
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

Oh, so about the same price and made in the same country as your ipad that you mentioned in another thread.

You keep talking about cheap workers and cheap country, but never offer any evidence. What you reply to my post further up this thread is not evidence. You just keep putting more noise on the thread without anything substantial to back it up. You really are living up to your non-de-plume.



And you know yourself that chinese workers are cheap in payment which also Märklin know about it.

LOL
DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline Goofy  
#160 Posted : 10 January 2020 09:22:59(UTC)
Goofy

Sweden   
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,226
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

Why do Märklin produce expensive train models in China?
Because of the cheap chinese worker.

Cool


Goofy you forgot:

,,, and for the rich Swedish buyers Cool to susidize Maerklins profit rate.LOL LOL LOL


Märklin are expensive in Sweden too.

DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline hxmiesa  
#161 Posted : 10 January 2020 10:05:48(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,795
Location: Spain
Hum... It seems to me, that the most forum-noise comes from people COMPLAINING about other peoples complaints (being it about China and/or Märklin) than the people actually pointing out a crititcal flaw or problem!

Typical way of going after the person instead of the problem, just because one doesnt agree with a certain complaint.

The primary interest is the model at hand. (and for me, it really doesnt have to be limited to products only from Märklin)
It is okay to get information about running characteristics and where it is made.
It is equally valid to loud concerns about availability of spareparts and quality of the materials used.
Only by openly recognizing the products good quality AND that it is made in China (in this particular case), can the negative bias about China be corrected.
Equally, we also need to know that quality problems were present in previous models from China (again, China in this particular case), in order to determine if Märklins quality-control is on the rise and problems has been remedied.
Some people will want the model for its good looks and excellent running, but OTHERS might not want to risk that amount of money on a model that COULD be suffereing from zinkpest or lack of spareparts. In this case, Märklins chinese quality-control needs to EARN themselves a better track-record. Certainly not a thing that can be done overnight, especially with zinkpest taking up to 12 years to manifest itself.
So I think it is okay for the sceptics to remind the fanboys of the crude reality of product and company quality... IMHO as always.
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline esgovipa  
#162 Posted : 10 January 2020 10:44:06(UTC)
esgovipa

Spain   
Joined: 04/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 87
Location: Madrid, Spain
Mine Kofferli running in the club´s layout. For me, Marklin top model!!!

Enjoy it.

Best regards
"https://www.youtube.com/profile?user=rapama14"
UserPostedImage
IC1968
UserPostedImage
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Offline Goofy  
#163 Posted : 10 January 2020 17:16:26(UTC)
Goofy

Sweden   
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,226
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Hum... It seems to me, that the most forum-noise comes from people COMPLAINING about other peoples complaints (being it about China and/or Märklin) than the people actually pointing out a crititcal flaw or problem!

Typical way of going after the person instead of the problem, just because one doesnt agree with a certain complaint.

The primary interest is the model at hand. (and for me, it really doesnt have to be limited to products only from Märklin)
It is okay to get information about running characteristics and where it is made.
It is equally valid to loud concerns about availability of spareparts and quality of the materials used.
Only by openly recognizing the products good quality AND that it is made in China (in this particular case), can the negative bias about China be corrected.
Equally, we also need to know that quality problems were present in previous models from China (again, China in this particular case), in order to determine if Märklins quality-control is on the rise and problems has been remedied.
Some people will want the model for its good looks and excellent running, but OTHERS might not want to risk that amount of money on a model that COULD be suffereing from zinkpest or lack of spareparts. In this case, Märklins chinese quality-control needs to EARN themselves a better track-record. Certainly not a thing that can be done overnight, especially with zinkpest taking up to 12 years to manifest itself.
So I think it is okay for the sceptics to remind the fanboys of the crude reality of product and company quality... IMHO as always.


Märklin did just present another swiss model Be 4/6 and the price are €520,00!
I beat this loco too will be made in China too.
The Köfferli 39520 do have not fair price.
Hopefully there is not zinkpest as suprise later...

DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline David Dewar  
#164 Posted : 10 January 2020 17:19:50(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,826
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: esgovipa Go to Quoted Post
Mine Kofferli running in the club´s layout. For me, Marklin top model!!!

Enjoy it.



Looks good . Strange how those who have the model like it but those don’t have take chance at a bit of Marklin bashing. As for spare parts in five years time who knows. As for China they make a lot of products so just don’t buy them and find a country you like. If you have nothing positive to say they don’t say it. Genuine concerns from those owning the model are more than welcome but we don’t appear to have any.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline Unholz  
#165 Posted : 10 January 2020 18:09:48(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,141
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
If you have nothing positive to say they don’t say it.

Are you assuming the role of some kind of "super moderator" and trying to teach us what we are allowed to say here? Cursing OhMyGod I do think it's time for a real moderator to step in and explain the rules of free speech to this member. Sad

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Offline kiwiAlan  
#166 Posted : 10 January 2020 18:14:29(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined:: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,810
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

Märklin did just present another swiss model Be 4/6 and the price are €520,00!
I beat this loco too will be made in China too.
The Köfferli 39520 do have not fair price.
Hopefully there is not zinkpest as suprise later...



IIRC when researching the Kofferli after Marklin announced it, I found that the be 4/6 is related, so yes it will probably build from many of the same parts. I would not be surprised if it is built in the same factory as the Kofferli.

Offline shannon  
#167 Posted : 10 January 2020 18:15:18(UTC)
shannon


Joined: 27/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 342
Location: Taipei,
I like and buy and play with marklin but I also criticize and laugh at marklin for its omissions, negligence at dimension scale, and reality on which other manufacturers has never made such mistakes.
Some members on this forum said if you don't like marklin why not come to other forum?
I would say if someone didn't like marklin they never appear here or even has never hear of this forum.
I criticise marklin as I look forward to seeing more progress
on products from marklin.
I started up this thread and questioned this locomotive but I also bought this loc as well to prove I support marklin. Here are some pictures of 39520 which arrived two days ago.

OI000131.jpg
OI000136.jpg
OI000126.jpg
OI000138.jpg
OI000134.jpg
OI000140.jpg
OI000133.jpg
OI000137.jpg
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Offline David Dewar  
#168 Posted : 10 January 2020 18:26:34(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,826
Location: Scotland
Good to hear you have the model. And support Marklin . If there are any problems it is good to know but so far this does appear well worth buying.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline mrmarklin  
#169 Posted : 10 January 2020 18:31:58(UTC)
mrmarklin

United States   
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 801
Location: Burney, CA
I think it's fair to say at this point that Marklin problems with Zinkpest are in the past.

The models that had this are over 10 years old, I believe and that newer models such as 39241 series and 37015 have been excellent with no problems.
These are detailed models and in many cases one-off production like the Kofferli. The SNCF Lok was not a one-off, but I doubt Marklin knew it would be as popular among its Germanic customers as it has proved to be. The first production run completely sold out, and quickly. All these series were produced in China for economic reasons such as detail and potential lack of interest in short series Loks. If one is a prototype modeler modelling Era III Germany (this is the biggest market segment) how many Kofferli Loks or SNCF Loks are you likely to buy?? Yet we have these wonderful models.

Considering the detail and projected short production runs, I don't think these models are overpriced.Cool
From the People's Republik of Kalifornia
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Offline H0  
#170 Posted : 10 January 2020 20:39:30(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,585
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: mrmarklin Go to Quoted Post
I think it's fair to say at this point that Marklin problems with Zinkpest are in the past.
I think it's fair to say that people know since the 1930s how to make good long-lasting ZAMAK.
Cases of Zinkpest in this century are the result of greed.
I do hope that Märklin have clauses in their agreements with sub-contractors that make new cases of Zinkpest very very unlikely.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Webmaster  
#171 Posted : 10 January 2020 21:36:06(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 10,934
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
but what are you looking for in a forum about Maerklin?

We are looking for the best models that can run on the Märklin (Maerklin) system, and that does not exclude other manufacturers - especially if they are good models.

I have seen a number of videos of the 39520 now, and I think it looks good - but on narrow radii it can look rather peculiar as Unholz has observed.
For me it's a loco I will skip since I'm a steamer fan, but I fully understand the members who love it - or have other opinions about it... Smile
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline TEEWolf  
#172 Posted : 11 January 2020 00:24:28(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,156
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post

We are looking for the best models that can run on the Märklin (Maerklin) system, and that does not exclude other manufacturers - especially if they are good models.

I have seen a number of videos of the 39520 now, and I think it looks good - but on narrow radii it can look rather peculiar as Unholz has observed.
For me it's a loco I will skip since I'm a steamer fan, but I fully understand the members who love it - or have other opinions about it... Smile


Oh, I do have non-Maerklin locos too, but the Maerklin locos, especially the latest Insider models, I obtained (e.g. 39436, a S 3/6 in green, but looks like from China), are really very good, recommendable models.BigGrin I did not buy this croc, because I do not like brownies very much.Huh Smile

At all these nice pictures have you seen any signs for a zinc pest? I could not recognize anything about a zinc pest. Unfortunately I had to read some stubborn comments and posts sounding more like an off-topic expositor pest.Laugh
CS 3 is a controlling station from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline Goofy  
#173 Posted : 11 January 2020 10:17:12(UTC)
Goofy

Sweden   
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,226
There is always pro and cons about train models.
So does about Märklin.
Without present cons, how can you even be sure there is no problems without present cons either too?
The real problem with the Köfferli is the price and the model are made in China.
Didn´t Märklin verified all models produce in Europe and no more in China, because of porr quality control?
When a swiss model cost €589,00 i suppose the model must been in damn good quality without future problems.
DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline esben2009  
#174 Posted : 11 January 2020 10:51:08(UTC)
esben2009

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2019(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: Hovedstaden, Copenhagen
When I look at my other stuff from LS-Models and NME, all made in China and more expensive than Märklin, then I see highquality products.

Nobody says these brands shall be more cheap because they are made in a low wage country. Can someone explain to me why it is different for Märklin ?
Märklin C-tracks, CS3+, Focus on SBB/BLS epoke IV-VI
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Offline Herrfleck  
#175 Posted : 11 January 2020 13:34:46(UTC)
Herrfleck

Sweden   
Joined: 08/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 258
At all these nice pictures have you seen any signs for a zinc pest? I could not recognize anything about a zinc pest. Unfortunately I had to read some stubborn comments and posts sounding more like an off-topic expositor pest.

ORGINAL POSTED BY TEE Wolf.










Hello!

I think it is a very nice model!!

And one of the best looking model I have!!

You can of course not see any zinkpest now.

It takes approx 4—5 years minimum before it is visibile and some time after 10—15 ? Years.

I realy Hope al on this forum that (think) that it is over with zinkpest is right.

I realize that I have more Märklin models (not made in Märklin)
And they are not Old enugh to be sure they not have zinkpest.


Regards

Bertil.
- since my lack in english I don't write so much here.. but learn by trying right? :) -

//Bertil
Offline mbarreto  
#176 Posted : 11 January 2020 17:39:39(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 914
Originally Posted by: esben2009 Go to Quoted Post
When I look at my other stuff from LS-Models and NME, all made in China and more expensive than Märklin, then I see highquality products.

Nobody says these brands shall be more cheap because they are made in a low wage country. Can someone explain to me why it is different for Märklin ?


I think most members don't care so much about those brands and that is why you don't see "complains". I also didn't care at all, but most recently, considering the style of Märklin coaches, I am considering in buy some (very few) LS Models in 2020 to see how they perform.

Are ESU models made in China too?

After all I read I think the 39520 is a great locomotive. I don't buy it because I prefer spend time with other locomotives :).

Miguel


Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline DRG  
#177 Posted : 12 January 2020 09:31:41(UTC)
DRG


Joined: 28/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: Schweinfurt,Germany
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
A terrible big mistake Märklin!
............

ThumbDown ThumbDown ThumbDown



No doubt about it.

What a misconstruction by Märklin. ThumbDown ThumbDown ThumbDown

It makes me shiver.OhMyGod

By the end of september 2014 the US Army will leave Schweinfurt after almost seventy years. This is a very sad news.
a salute to Schweinfurt http://www.schweinfurt.army.mil/infovault/salute.html
Offline DRG  
#178 Posted : 12 January 2020 09:35:25(UTC)
DRG


Joined: 28/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: Schweinfurt,Germany
Miguel:
Quote:
Are ESU models made in China too?


Yes !

The have more then one manufacturer
By the end of september 2014 the US Army will leave Schweinfurt after almost seventy years. This is a very sad news.
a salute to Schweinfurt http://www.schweinfurt.army.mil/infovault/salute.html
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