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Offline dickinsonj  
#101 Posted : 05 January 2020 01:07:09(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,318
Location: United States
This has been discussed many, many times before on this forum. If Chinese production is an issue for anyone, they really should search for the multiple discussions of this topic.

When I was first reading about the 37015 I was surprised that such an expensive model was not made by Märklin in Germany. But several posters on this forum made the case that these were high detail, high feature, low volume models and that they would be priced beyond the market unless they were produced in the far east. Apple's business model comes to mind.

And to be fair the vast majority of Märklin products are indeed made in Göppingen or Györ and only the high end special models are made in small runs outside of normal production. In reality the fact that this loco was made in China is the best quality indicator I have so far for the 39520. Mine is finally at the dealer but we are waiting to ship it along with the coach set I ordered. I have been looking forward to seeing this beauty for a very long time now.

Märklin would not have done Chinese production on this loco unless it was destined to be a special one. ThumpUp
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline mrmarklin  
#102 Posted : 05 January 2020 07:18:13(UTC)
mrmarklin

United States   
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 816
Location: Burney, CA
Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: midwestbls Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post

One thing strange about this item is Märklin doesn't have a specific video about it yet (as far as I know).
The RAm, S3/6, 241 and also the Fall new items V200 and its set have dedicated videos in the M youtube channel.

Regards,
Miguel


Hallo!

Does anyone know where it is manufactured??

Is it in Göppingen Györ or in far East by an other manufacturer??

I dont know if Märklin makes models in far East any more time??

I have preordered the modell and looking forward to get it!

It looks really good on the pictures!!!Razz

Regards

Bertil.



Just received mine ... "MADE IN CHINA".

Generally, I have no problem with this and have a number of beautiful M models made in China. And this is a beautiful model - I'm very pleased with it. BUT for a new-tooling, special, new, highly desired, expensive model, why not make in Germany or Hungary?! It's all perception, but I'm very surprised for a model like this ...





Hello!

I must say I am very disiponted at Märklin!!

Regards

Bertil.


Think how much more it would cost if made in Germany. Mellow
From the People's Republik of Kalifornia
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Offline Herrfleck  
#103 Posted : 05 January 2020 11:15:10(UTC)
Herrfleck

Sweden   
Joined: 08/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 258
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Go to Quoted Post
Hello!

I must say I am very disiponted at Märklin!!

Regards

Bertil.


Why and about what are you disappointed? What had Maerklin done to you?


I dont like that they selling a märklin produkt in premium price!
And its not made in by märklin factory!

I can take that they sell pruducts like cheaper 36xxx lokos that is made by
another manufakturer.

Butt not a premium modell fot 570 euro.............Sad


Well for me it is not important where it is produced. The overall price/performance ratio and the product quality had to achieve my suggestions. Indeed this loco is high priced, but the S 3/6 (39436) - I guess was made in China probably too - was also high priced. But it is a real valuable nice loco, which I bought. The prior "Made in xxx-country" meanwhile is superseded by a "Made by "xxx-company". I think the quality of Maerklin was not bad anytime and has increased in the last years as well. Sometimes, I think a bit lower quality for a lower price would be more helpful. But it is as it is. But very high quality had the last insider models. I would recommend to buy one of these ones. Also I read Maerklin assures all Insider models are completely only produced in Goeppingen. BTW this might be a major reason for myself to buy the new TEE RAm.




Hello!

For me it is important that the prudukt is good made!
I have at least 2 modells from Märklin with are made in china!
37521 and 36804 that has zinkpest!!!!!!!

I dont understand ?? You begin with it is not important where it is produced.
And at last it is a major reason to buy insider models because it is made in Göppingen??

Regards

Bertil.
- since my lack in english I don't write so much here.. but learn by trying right? :) -

//Bertil
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Offline Herrfleck  
#104 Posted : 05 January 2020 12:20:32(UTC)
Herrfleck

Sweden   
Joined: 08/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 258
Originally Posted by: mrmarklin Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: midwestbls Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post

One thing strange about this item is Märklin doesn't have a specific video about it yet (as far as I know).
The RAm, S3/6, 241 and also the Fall new items V200 and its set have dedicated videos in the M youtube channel.

Regards,
Miguel


Hallo!

Does anyone know where it is manufactured??

Is it in Göppingen Györ or in far East by an other manufacturer??

I dont know if Märklin makes models in far East any more time??

I have preordered the modell and looking forward to get it!

It looks really good on the pictures!!!Razz

Regards

Bertil.



Just received mine ... "MADE IN CHINA".

Generally, I have no problem with this and have a number of beautiful M models made in China. And this is a beautiful model - I'm very pleased with it. BUT for a new-tooling, special, new, highly desired, expensive model, why not make in Germany or Hungary?! It's all perception, but I'm very surprised for a model like this ...





Hello!

I must say I am very disiponted at Märklin!!

Regards

Bertil.


Think how much more it would cost if made in Germany. Mellow



Hello!

Yes I know!

But if the guality was up antil maybe 15—20 years ago......??

I starten the Märklin hobby 50 years ago and have not had a break.
And all my stuff from 1960 70 80 90 are all as good as new!
But then I have bought stuff that was not good quality![Sad Sad
And they are all made in china from Märklin.....
And I must say that I gladly paid 200 euro more if it was like before in quality!

I am a big fan off Märklin and love it!!!![
And most of the models I bay now I m very happy with!!BigGrin

But my experiense with the china made models is that they look nice but are of por quality and it Will not be visibel until maybe 10 years?

Regards

Bertil.
- since my lack in english I don't write so much here.. but learn by trying right? :) -

//Bertil
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Offline Goofy  
#105 Posted : 05 January 2020 12:20:47(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,264
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post


Well for me it is not important where it is produced. The overall price/performance ratio and the product quality had to achieve my suggestions. Indeed this loco is high priced, but the S 3/6 (39436) - I guess was made in China probably too - was also high priced.


You guess!?? Confused
That is naiv by said it when we discuss if the prices are fair if train models are made in China.
Are swiss model made in China too?
Or S 3/6?? Confused

This is ridiculous! LOL

Offline TEEWolf  
#106 Posted : 05 January 2020 15:43:17(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,389
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post


Well for me it is not important where it is produced. The overall price/performance ratio and the product quality had to achieve my suggestions. Indeed this loco is high priced, but the S 3/6 (39436) - I guess was made in China probably too - was also high priced.


You guess!?? Confused
That is naiv by said it when we discuss if the prices are fair if train models are made in China.
Are swiss model made in China too?
Or S 3/6?? Confused

This is ridiculous! LOL



It is neither naive nor ridiculous. It just is an economically thinking. I guess because I do not know it. But even this loco is high priced, it is so much detailed work, a prodution in Germany must have cost much more.

Offline TEEWolf  
#107 Posted : 05 January 2020 16:03:36(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,389
Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Go to Quoted Post

Hello!

Yes I know!

But if the guality was up antil maybe 15—20 years ago......??

I starten the Märklin hobby 50 years ago and have not had a break.
And all my stuff from 1960 70 80 90 are all as good as new!
But then I have bought stuff that was not good quality![Sad Sad
And they are all made in china from Märklin.....
And I must say that I gladly paid 200 euro more if it was like before in quality!

I am a big fan off Märklin and love it!!!![
And most of the models I bay now I m very happy with!!BigGrin

But my experiense with the china made models is that they look nice but are of por quality and it Will not be visibel until maybe 10 years?

Regards

Bertil.



Hello Bertil,

I agree with you, because I started with Maerklin about 60 years ago with my father and brother. So I still own a complete analogue Maerklin railway in M-tracks. But I interrutpted my hobby for about 30 years.

But I think you must distinguish Maerklin into 2 different era. One before its insolvency and one after its insolvency. All points you are talking about happend in M 1 era. And why do you think M had to go into this insolvency?

BTW I restarted my hobby after M insolvency, because I wanted to know what will go on with Maerklin. After it was bought by the Sieber family, it was obvious to me, Maerklin will go on, but will grow prices tremendously. Why? The Siebers own a toy corporation in Germany doing about 600 Mio € sales. Their toys are famous for its high prices, but also for its good quality. One of the most famous toy of the Simba-Dickie-Group (that is their name) is the Bobby Car, which you find also as a load on a car from Maerklin.

ciao

TEEWolf
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Offline TEEWolf  
#108 Posted : 05 January 2020 16:23:09(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,389
Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Go to Quoted Post
Hello!

For me it is important that the prudukt is good made!


Me too!

Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Go to Quoted Post

I have at least 2 modells from Märklin with are made in china!
37521 and 36804 that has zinkpest!!!!!!!

This happened in Maerklin era 1.

Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Go to Quoted Post

I dont understand ?? You begin with it is not important where it is produced.
And at last it is a major reason to buy insider models because it is made in Göppingen??

Regards

Bertil.


Indeed, I do not care where it is produced. It "only" must have a good quality. Whereas you always find a few bad quality produced products. This is standard in almost any production technique and for such failure products you get the guarantee.

No I do not buy Insider models because they are produced in Goeppingen. In my opinion these models have only a bit higher quality, even the regular models achieve a remarkable high quality already. For me it is a part of Maerklin's marketing strategy - or whatelse stands the Insider club for?
Offline Goofy  
#109 Posted : 05 January 2020 17:37:25(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,264
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post


It is neither naive nor ridiculous. It just is an economically thinking. I guess because I do not know it. But even this loco is high priced, it is so much detailed work, a prodution in Germany must have cost much more.



A production in Germany will not cost more what you expect and think.
The swiss model 39520 cost €580,00.
It is normal fair price even if this model was made in Germany.
By the way...the dealers even lower the prices of the train models, which also customer use and abuse to shop if the prices was lower.
If the prices is too high, then it is wrong price too if the model was produced in China.

Offline Goofy  
#110 Posted : 05 January 2020 17:47:19(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,264
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post


No I do not buy Insider models because they are produced in Goeppingen. In my opinion these models have only a bit higher quality, even the regular models achieve a remarkable high quality already. For me it is a part of Maerklin's marketing strategy - or whatelse stands the Insider club for?


Nope!
The Insider model do have 5 years warranty.
It is not marketing strategy because Märklin provided good quality made in Göppingen/Germany.
If you say made in China you present train models worse quality because it has only a year warranty.
Even Brawa locomotive are made in China but are expensive too.
Quality is quality, but for how long?

Are swiss model 39520 made in China?

Offline Herrfleck  
#111 Posted : 05 January 2020 18:28:09(UTC)
Herrfleck

Sweden   
Joined: 08/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 258
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Go to Quoted Post

Hello!

Yes I know!

But if the guality was up antil maybe 15—20 years ago......??

I starten the Märklin hobby 50 years ago and have not had a break.
And all my stuff from 1960 70 80 90 are all as good as new!
But then I have bought stuff that was not good quality![Sad Sad
And they are all made in china from Märklin.....
And I must say that I gladly paid 200 euro more if it was like before in quality!

I am a big fan off Märklin and love it!!!![
And most of the models I bay now I m very happy with!!BigGrin

But my experiense with the china made models is that they look nice but are of por quality and it Will not be visibel until maybe 10 years?

Regards

Bertil.



Hello Bertil,

I agree with you, because I started with Maerklin about 60 years ago with my father and brother. So I still own a complete analogue Maerklin railway in M-tracks. But I interrutpted my hobby for about 30 years.

But I think you must distinguish Maerklin into 2 different era. One before its insolvency and one after its insolvency. All points you are talking about happend in M 1 era. And why do you think M had to go into this insolvency?

BTW I restarted my hobby after M insolvency, because I wanted to know what will go on with Maerklin. After it was bought by the Sieber family, it was obvious to me, Maerklin will go on, but will grow prices tremendously. Why? The Siebers own a toy corporation in Germany doing about 600 Mio € sales. Their toys are famous for its high prices, but also for its good quality. One of the most famous toy of the Simba-Dickie-Group (that is their name) is the Bobby Car, which you find also as a load on a car from Maerklin.

ciao

TEEWolf



Hello!

Yes but you have to split Märklin in 4 different era.
First until 2006 when Claudius and Peter Märklin and the other in Märklin family with Wolfgang Topp as marketing Director sold märklin to Kingbridge Capital.
And Sekond 2006— 2009 when kingbridge Capital make bankruptcy!
And third when Micael Pluta operatet märklin (2009—2013)
And after that family Sieber operate märklin!

The China manufacturing begin in what I call era 2!
And I mean that märklin repet their past mistakes.

And after all ther is reportage in German newspapper 2018 that märklin not going to manufacturing in China.......

Regards

Bertil.
- since my lack in english I don't write so much here.. but learn by trying right? :) -

//Bertil
Offline dickinsonj  
#112 Posted : 06 January 2020 03:33:39(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,318
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Go to Quoted Post


And after all there is reportage in German newspaper 2018 that märklin not going to manufacturing in China.......

I would totally agree with you Bertil if a significant number of their products were not made in Germany or Hungary, but I don't think that is the case.

I don't know a precise percentage but I would guess that the Chinese made premium locos only account for a very small portion of their product line. So for normal production items virtually all of them are made in Göppingen or Györ, with parts sourced from around the world, as any company must do today to remain viable.

From my perspective they are keeping assembly and the fabrication of important components in Göppingen and Györ, as they pledged to do. That is a plus for quality, with the paint and imprinting on their models being much better than in the past IMO. But offering limited runs of a few special models , which can only be done economically in the far east, makes their product line richer. If you don't approve of Chinese made Märklin products don't buy them - that would still leave most of their lineup available to you.

My Chinese locos are some of my nicest locos, with zero issues and they are beautifully made. I have dozens of American prototype freight cars which are over 20 years old and are still perfect, although they were all made in China. I have seen the zinc pest damage and I would be mad if those were my wagons, but then I threw away a MRR worth of the old C track and started over. Stuff happens.

So my point is that just because it is made in China do not assume that it is inferior or that Märklin has abandoned Europe. From my perspective the current ownership has saved Märklin as a European maker of quality trains, which is a lot better than what I imagined might happen with Märklin, even if it is not exactly what I had foreseen. BigGrin
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline Unholz  
#113 Posted : 06 January 2020 09:15:12(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,194
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
If you don't approve of Chinese made Märklin products don't buy them (...)


Gladly - BUT this requires that customers are informed beforehand (to be precise: before the ordering process starts!) where the "premium" product will be made. If this forum wouldn't exist (and if the U.S. would not require to reveal the country of origin), then I would probably never have learned of the Made in China situation in this case. Angry

And yes, I am one of those who was affected by the zinkpest desaster of the "premium" 37521 Seetal crocodile...ThumbDown

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Offline Goofy  
#114 Posted : 06 January 2020 11:12:51(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,264
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Go to Quoted Post


And after all there is reportage in German newspaper 2018 that märklin not going to manufacturing in China.......

I would totally agree with you Bertil if a significant number of their products were not made in Germany or Hungary, but I don't think that is the case.

I don't know a precise percentage but I would guess that the Chinese made premium locos only account for a very small portion of their product line. So for normal production items virtually all of them are made in Göppingen or Györ, with parts sourced from around the world, as any company must do today to remain viable.

From my perspective they are keeping assembly and the fabrication of important components in Göppingen and Györ, as they pledged to do. That is a plus for quality, with the paint and imprinting on their models being much better than in the past IMO. But offering limited runs of a few special models , which can only be done economically in the far east, makes their product line richer. If you don't approve of Chinese made Märklin products don't buy them - that would still leave most of their lineup available to you.

My Chinese locos are some of my nicest locos, with zero issues and they are beautifully made. I have dozens of American prototype freight cars which are over 20 years old and are still perfect, although they were all made in China. I have seen the zinc pest damage and I would be mad if those were my wagons, but then I threw away a MRR worth of the old C track and started over. Stuff happens.

So my point is that just because it is made in China do not assume that it is inferior or that Märklin has abandoned Europe. From my perspective the current ownership has saved Märklin as a European maker of quality trains, which is a lot better than what I imagined might happen with Märklin, even if it is not exactly what I had foreseen. BigGrin


Chinese worker are cheaper than german.
But the prices of the train models made in China are expensive in Europe which makes one becomes suspicious of pricing.
Quality is quality, but for how long last?

Are swiss model 39520 made in China?? Confused

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Offline dickinsonj  
#115 Posted : 06 January 2020 13:37:35(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,318
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post

Gladly - BUT this requires that customers are informed beforehand (to be precise: before the ordering process starts!) where the "premium" product will be made. If this forum wouldn't exist (and if the U.S. would not require to reveal the country of origin), then I would probably never have learned of the Made in China situation in this case. Angry


Very true Stephan and I do not like that part either.

I don't personally have any problem with their Chinese products but Märklin should be more open about where their models are made since many people do. Even buying from US dealers I have some models which were sourced from Europe and do not have country of assembly stickers. It is clear that Märklin is playing games about where their models are assembled, which reduces trust in their company.

Perhaps one day I will find my beautiful 39241 falling apart as the Seetal Crocodiles did and then I will have exactly the same attitude that you have. ThumbDown
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline TEEWolf  
#116 Posted : 06 January 2020 18:33:17(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,389
Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Go to Quoted Post
Hello!

Yes but you have to split Märklin in 4 different era.
First until 2006 when Claudius and Peter Märklin and the other in Märklin family with Wolfgang Topp as marketing Director sold märklin to Kingbridge Capital.
And Sekond 2006— 2009 when kingbridge Capital make bankruptcy!
And third when Micael Pluta operatet märklin (2009—2013)
And after that family Sieber operate märklin!

The China manufacturing begin in what I call era 2!
And I mean that märklin repet their past mistakes.


You can see it that way, but the first 3 eras are directly connected and a result of the bad management and controversials in the owner families.


Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Go to Quoted Post

And after all ther is reportage in German newspapper 2018 that märklin not going to manufacturing in China.......

Regards

Bertil.


I think I remember similar statements by Maerklin. But I understood it more in the direction, they do not set up and operate an own plant with Maerklin capital in Asia as Fleischman did. Or as Maerklin does in Hungary.

But this does not exclude buying complete articles constructed and manufactered by Chinese companies. These companies are not financed and managed by Maerklin. So it is only a question of the quality acceptance of the delivered goods.
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Offline Herrfleck  
#117 Posted : 06 January 2020 19:10:43(UTC)
Herrfleck

Sweden   
Joined: 08/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 258
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Go to Quoted Post
Hello!

Yes but you have to split Märklin in 4 different era.
First until 2006 when Claudius and Peter Märklin and the other in Märklin family with Wolfgang Topp as marketing Director sold märklin to Kingbridge Capital.
And Sekond 2006— 2009 when kingbridge Capital make bankruptcy!
And third when Micael Pluta operatet märklin (2009—2013)
And after that family Sieber operate märklin!

The China manufacturing begin in what I call era 2!
And I mean that märklin repet their past mistakes.


You can see it that way, but the first 3 eras are directly connected and a result of the bad management and controversials in the owner families.


Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Go to Quoted Post

And after all ther is reportage in German newspapper 2018 that märklin not going to manufacturing in China.......

Regards

Bertil.


I think I remember similar statements by Maerklin. But I understood it more in the direction, they do not set up and operate an own plant with Maerklin capital in Asia as Fleischman did. Or as Maerklin does in Hungary.

But this does not exclude buying complete articles constructed and manufactered by Chinese companies. These companies are not financed and managed by Maerklin. So it is only a question of the quality acceptance of the delivered goods.



No no no!
The first Märklin family had nothing to do with Kingbridge Capital after they sold the whole companie to them!


If I understand you right the Märklin 39520 is not a real Märklin prudukt!?
Only a branded China prudukt??.......

You write that it is constructed and manufackterd by Chinese companie to them!

I must ask you are you sure what you are talking about or is it what you think???

Regards

Bertil.
- since my lack in english I don't write so much here.. but learn by trying right? :) -

//Bertil
Offline Goofy  
#118 Posted : 06 January 2020 19:30:31(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,264
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post


I think I remember similar statements by Maerklin. But I understood it more in the direction, they do not set up and operate an own plant with Maerklin capital in Asia as Fleischman did. Or as Maerklin does in Hungary.

But this does not exclude buying complete articles constructed and manufactered by Chinese companies. These companies are not financed and managed by Maerklin. So it is only a question of the quality acceptance of the delivered goods.


The question is if the price of a train model like swiss 39520 are fair if this model are made in China?
The chinese worker do have cheaper payment in work, so i know the price of the swiss model should be lower too.

I ask again...are the swiss model 39520 made in China??? Confused

Offline midwestbls  
#119 Posted : 06 January 2020 20:09:40(UTC)
midwestbls

United States   
Joined: 04/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I agree with Herrfleck!
It is not fair if a model made in cheap country sells at higher price than what it should cost at lesser price instead.
But are midwestbls right about made in China? Confused


IMG_5610.jpg

ETE - Swiss Era III - BLS - Brig Station
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Offline Unholz  
#120 Posted : 06 January 2020 20:09:51(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,194
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

I ask again...are the swiss model 39520 made in China???


Please look at message #93 above! https://www.marklin-user...39520-Fc2x3-4#post605296
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Offline midwestbls  
#121 Posted : 06 January 2020 20:33:55(UTC)
midwestbls

United States   
Joined: 04/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Go to Quoted Post

...

If I understand you right the Märklin 39520 is not a real Märklin prudukt!?
Only a branded China prudukt??.......

...

Bertil.


I consider 39520 a real Marklin product ... it's a Marklin product made in China. I'm very pleased with the quality of the model just received - a model I have hoped to have for many years.

The debate here is about the quality of Marklin's products based on where they are made, if buyers are getting the best value for the price paid based on where manufactured, and should M disclose country of manufacture to buyers ...

(Stefan, are you saying that in Europe this 39520 doesn't have the "MADE IN CHINA" sticker - that it's added for the US market? Interesting...)

- Bill
ETE - Swiss Era III - BLS - Brig Station
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Offline Herrfleck  
#122 Posted : 06 January 2020 20:53:21(UTC)
Herrfleck

Sweden   
Joined: 08/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 258
Originally Posted by: midwestbls Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Go to Quoted Post

...

If I understand you right the Märklin 39520 is not a real Märklin prudukt!?
Only a branded China prudukt??.......

...

Bertil.


I consider 39520 a real Marklin product ... it's a Marklin product made in China. I'm very pleased with the quality of the model just received - a model I have hoped to have for many years.

The debate here is about the quality of Marklin's products based on where they are made, if buyers are getting the best value for the price paid based on where manufactured, and should M disclose country of manufacture to buyers ...

(Stefan, are you saying that in Europe this 39520 doesn't have the "MADE IN CHINA" sticker - that it's added for the US market? Interesting...)


I dont have any made in China sticker!

And I think it is a nice model and happy with it!

But I am worried that it that it should be with others items märklin made in China........Sad

Regards

Bertil.
- since my lack in english I don't write so much here.. but learn by trying right? :) -

//Bertil
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Offline TEEWolf  
#123 Posted : 06 January 2020 21:06:52(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,389
Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Go to Quoted Post

No no no!
The first Märklin family had nothing to do with Kingbridge Capital after they sold the whole companie to them!

If I understand you right the Märklin 39520 is not a real Märklin prudukt!?
Only a branded China prudukt??.......

You write that it is constructed and manufackterd by Chinese companie to them!

I must ask you are you sure what you are talking about or is it what you think???

Regards

Bertil.


As @midwestbls wrote in his post #93 already: yes, it is made in China. Why should I not trust @midwestbls? And in the last posts in this thread, it is confirmed again. Why are you in doubt about it?

Well this thread is about the loco 39520 from Maerklin. Unfortunately it is not a business administration seminar about the management decision of buying an article somewhere or producing the product inhouse. This we can dicuss, but in another thread, please.

I never have read the fact Maerklin is operating an own company with a production plant in China after 2013, the year the Sieber family bought Maerklin. As we have seen the product was "Made in China" only the option remains, this loco is built (perhaps even constructed too) by a Chinese company. But for me, it is a real Maerklin product, not a branded one, because it is "Made under Maerklin's superintendence".

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Offline David Dewar  
#124 Posted : 06 January 2020 21:09:38(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,902
Location: Scotland
I would like to know if those who have this model are satisfied with what they have. If you are not satisfied then do say what is wrong with it.
Ignore those who don't have the model and are only interested in not buying from China as they feel the model costs too much for an inferior product.
It is useful for those who actually own a Marklin model to give an opinion as to whether it is good or not and assists others who may be thinking of buying.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline Herrfleck  
#125 Posted : 06 January 2020 21:34:55(UTC)
Herrfleck

Sweden   
Joined: 08/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 258
Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Go to Quoted Post

No no no!
The first Märklin family had nothing to do with Kingbridge Capital after they sold the whole companie to them!

If I understand you right the Märklin 39520 is not a real Märklin prudukt!?
Only a branded China prudukt??.......

You write that it is constructed and manufackterd by Chinese companie to them!

I must ask you are you sure what you are talking about or is it what you think???

Regards

Bertil.


Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post


As @midwestbls wrote in his post #93 already: yes, it is made in China. Why should I not trust @midwestbls? And in the last posts in this thread, it is confirmed again. Why are you in doubt about it?



It is not my how ask if it is made in China!! It is Goofy!!
I have seen midwestbls post from the begining and also Thanks it!!
I must say you have to read what is written in my post and in your own posts!


Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

Well this thread is about the loco 39520 from Maerklin. Unfortunately it is not a business administration seminar about the management decision of buying an article somewhere or producing the product inhouse. This we can dicuss, but in another thread, please.



You written that 39520 was constracted and manufactured in China and I only ask you if you now this or you ondo think so!

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

I never have read the fact Maerklin is operating an own company with a production plant in China after 2013, the year the Sieber family bought Maerklin. As we have seen the product was "Made in China" only the option remains, this loco is built (perhaps even constructed too) by a Chinese company. But for me, it is a real Maerklin product, not a branded one, because it is "Made under Maerklin's superintendence".




Regards

Bertil.
- since my lack in english I don't write so much here.. but learn by trying right? :) -

//Bertil
Offline Herrfleck  
#126 Posted : 06 January 2020 21:46:25(UTC)
Herrfleck

Sweden   
Joined: 08/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 258
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
I would like to know if those who have this model are satisfied with what they have. If you are not satisfied then do say what is wrong with it.
Ignore those who don't have the model and are only interested in not buying from China as they feel the model costs too much for an inferior product.
It is useful for those who actually own a Marklin model to give an opinion as to whether it is good or not and assists others who may be thinking of buying.



I am very satisfiera with 39520 !
It is a beutiful and nice looking loko!

But again others Chines made modells I have bought was also nice modells!
But they disappeared in zinkpest after approx 5 years......Sad
And when I hear that my newest loko for 580 euro also is made in China I begin to wonder???

And as I sad before I am a big fan off Märklin and very happy with almost
Every märklin modell I have!

Regards

Bertil
- since my lack in english I don't write so much here.. but learn by trying right? :) -

//Bertil
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Offline Unholz  
#127 Posted : 06 January 2020 21:50:53(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,194
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: midwestbls Go to Quoted Post

(Stefan, are you saying that in Europe this 39520 doesn't have the "MADE IN CHINA" sticker - that it's added for the US market? Interesting...)

Yes indeed, that is what I am saying (although I am not absolutely sure that this applies to EVERY European country).

And I am convinced that should Märklin publicly admit (in Europe) that they actually still sell very expensive products made in China, then this would lead to considerable dissatisfaction (to say the least) among traditional Märklin buyers and enthusiasts here - and of course a significant drop of sales. It may well be a fact that (a few / some / many / most / all - please choose whatever suits you) Chinese products are not inferior compared with those manufactured in Europe or the U.S.

However, it is simply not fair business that Märklin
a) puts a "European" price tag on a model that deserves to be sold cheaper,
b) casts a very thick layer of smoke or fog over the true production location by omitting/forgetting Flapper the sticker, and
c) banks on the honest assumption of almost every unsuspecting customer that he/she is still buying fully genuine "Made in Germany" merchandise.

Or would anybody among our esteemed readers actually buy a Rolex watch or a Rolls Royce automobile or a vintage "French" champagne for many hundred or thousand Dollars/Pounds/Euros/Francs if it were made in *****? Crying Huh
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Offline 60904  
#128 Posted : 06 January 2020 22:44:13(UTC)
60904

Germany   
Joined: 27/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 269
Well, I am not surprised that this model is produced in China. Just have a look at the pantograph. It simply is a non European Märklin device, although correct in its appearance. A Märklin engineer would never have equipped it with this. It is just not working because it is way to small for a model catenary. I tested the model. Nothing to criticize about its appearance or driving behavior.

Chinese and many other people around the world can manufacture according to Märklin or Roco standards but the thing is why do they pretend that they produce in Europe when lots of their stuff has been shipped around the world. By law they have to put the label on the box in the US. Why not here? I have the feeling that the Märklin people think we have no world wide communication. We are not living in a gated country.

As already said by someone the most worrying thing is about the material, not the quality of modeling. We all have experienced ZINKPEST too often durin recent years.

Roco does not have a problem with the country of origin.
Greetings
Martin
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#129 Posted : 06 January 2020 23:00:22(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,087
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Go to Quoted Post

If I understand you right the Märklin 39520 is not a real Märklin prudukt!?
Only a branded China prudukt??.......

You write that it is constructed and manufackterd by Chinese companie to them!

I must ask you are you sure what you are talking about or is it what you think???

Regards

Bertil.


No No No, the 39520, just like the S2/6 models and others, is designed by Marklin and made under contract in a Chinese facility run by a South Korean company. Search this forum for the discussion that took place when the first S2/6 came out - I'm sure you will remember that discussion.

The South Korean company (I cannot remember its name off hand) has been making product for the MRR market in USA for a long time and is known for its quality. It is because of that company commitment to quality that Marklin has contracted out the manufacture of these models.

I believe that Marklin has stopped using the company that had been making the items that had zinkpest and other problems.

I would have no problem with purchasing this loco if I could afford it. "Made in China" does not necessarily mean that people are mistreated in the factory where these are made.

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Offline kiwiAlan  
#130 Posted : 06 January 2020 23:11:18(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,087
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post

However, it is simply not fair business that Märklin
a) puts a "European" price tag on a model that deserves to be sold cheaper, ]


If you think that product sold in the European market should show the country of manufacture then get the European law changed to require it. Currently such a declaration is not required in Europe, so stickers only get applied to items that do require such a declaration such as USA.

But having said that, I suspect you will find that many of the coreless motors used in modern Marklin locos are made outside the European Union. I don't know if the decoders are actually assembled inside the European Union, but would not be surprised if they are assembled somewhere in Asia, again because of labour rates.

And personally I suspect that if the 39520 was assembled in Germany it would cost 30% - 50% more, so would you be prepared to pay that "European" price tag?

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Offline kiwiAlan  
#131 Posted : 06 January 2020 23:22:01(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,087
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: 60904 Go to Quoted Post
By law they have to put the label on the box in the US. Why not here? I have the feeling that the Märklin people think we have no world wide communication. We are not living in a gated country.


Around 30 years ago I was told that Marklin production was sold in markets by the following percentages.

75% of all production was sold in Germany
Of the remaining 25%, 75% (i.e. 18.75% of total production) is sold in Switzerland.

The remaining 25% of 25% (i.e.6.25% of total production) is sold in the rest of the world.

Now the percentages have probably changed a little over the last 30 years, but I doubt they have changed that much. So even if they need to put stickers on (say) 5% of total production that s probably economical to do. Note that the sticker is on the slip case which has no identifying information about the loco in the package, so is probably put on at a completely separate stage of the process.

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Offline David Dewar  
#132 Posted : 06 January 2020 23:30:54(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,902
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Go to Quoted Post

If I understand you right the Märklin 39520 is not a real Märklin prudukt!?
Only a branded China prudukt??.......

You write that it is constructed and manufackterd by Chinese companie to them!

I must ask you are you sure what you are talking about or is it what you think???

Regards

Bertil.


No No No, the 39520, just like the S2/6 models and others, is designed by Marklin and made under contract in a Chinese facility run by a South Korean company. Search this forum for the discussion that took place when the first S2/6 came out - I'm sure you will remember that discussion.

The South Korean company (I cannot remember its name off hand) has been making product for the MRR market in USA for a long time and is known for its quality. It is because of that company commitment to quality that Marklin has contracted out the manufacture of these models.

I believe that Marklin has stopped using the company that had been making the items that had zinkpest and other problems.

I would have no problem with purchasing this loco if I could afford it. "Made in China" does not necessarily mean that people are mistreated in the factory where these are made.





Interesting Alan that it is a South Korean Company. I would have no problem with that as other S Korean firms make good stuff.
Good to hear that zincpest is not a problem with this model. Anyway those who bought like it and that is the important part of the discussion.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline midwestbls  
#133 Posted : 07 January 2020 00:22:20(UTC)
midwestbls

United States   
Joined: 04/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: midwestbls Go to Quoted Post

(Stefan, are you saying that in Europe this 39520 doesn't have the "MADE IN CHINA" sticker - that it's added for the US market? Interesting...)

Yes indeed, that is what I am saying (although I am not absolutely sure that this applies to EVERY European country).

And I am convinced that should Märklin publicly admit (in Europe) that they actually still sell very expensive products made in China, then this would lead to considerable dissatisfaction (to say the least) among traditional Märklin buyers and enthusiasts here - and of course a significant drop of sales. It may well be a fact that (a few / some / many / most / all - please choose whatever suits you) Chinese products are not inferior compared with those manufactured in Europe or the U.S.

However, it is simply not fair business that Märklin
a) puts a "European" price tag on a model that deserves to be sold cheaper,
b) casts a very thick layer of smoke or fog over the true production location by omitting/forgetting Flapper the sticker, and
c) banks on the honest assumption of almost every unsuspecting customer that he/she is still buying fully genuine "Made in Germany" merchandise.

Or would anybody among our esteemed readers actually buy a Rolex watch or a Rolls Royce automobile or a vintage "French" champagne for many hundred or thousand Dollars/Pounds/Euros/Francs if it were made in *****? Crying Huh


I actually don't have a problem with "Made in China" if the quality is good - I raised the issue initially on this thread as I was surprised by it for this special, limited, new model. I'm sure my phone was made in China along with many other electronics I use everyday. I think the quality of the Kofferli is excellent (limited test run so far!) - INCLUDING the spacing and functioning of the front bogies/kofferli - as are ALL of the other Marklin models I have with a Made in China sticker. But I have to say I am a little disappointed when I get a Made in China Marklin. BMW makes a LOT of cars in the US, and I think I'd kind of feel the same about one of those models that's it's not fully "German". (I'm an Audi guy, so maybe I'm unfairly biased with my comparison!!!)

If I knew the Kofferli was Made in China, I would have still bought it, even at the price paid. Should it cost less because it's Made in China? I don't know; I don't even know how to measure the relative value difference. It's a highly-detailed, NEW, desirable model for me, so China vs. Germany (or Hungary) is really moot.

I agree that M has a potentially serious perception issue, that they are not helping by playing hide and seek with where their models are manufactured. Some German-made-only snobs may hate the China manufacturing, but ultimately that's their problem. (Hungary used to be complained about too...) I want the company in business, thriving, profiting and innovating! And as another said, I've never had a problem with my Chinese-made Roco models. But by Marklin allowing the continued PERCEPTION that the models - especially limited, "special" models - are "European made" will only compound dissatisfaction and complaints. They should clearly, openly OWN the Chinese manufacturing and let the chips fall where they may.

I think they should be very clear about their Chinese manufacturing/assembly partner - how about a video?! I have mixed feelings about whether they should advertise to buyers which models are made where ... or if they do they must do it clearly and consistently for each and every one. Better to simply be open about the fact that some are made there and let the quality determine the value to buyers.
ETE - Swiss Era III - BLS - Brig Station
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Offline mrmarklin  
#134 Posted : 07 January 2020 01:07:22(UTC)
mrmarklin

United States   
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 816
Location: Burney, CA
Originally Posted by: midwestbls Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Herrfleck Go to Quoted Post

...

If I understand you right the Märklin 39520 is not a real Märklin prudukt!?
Only a branded China prudukt??.......

...

Bertil.


I consider 39520 a real Marklin product ... it's a Marklin product made in China. I'm very pleased with the quality of the model just received - a model I have hoped to have for many years.

The debate here is about the quality of Marklin's products based on where they are made, if buyers are getting the best value for the price paid based on where manufactured, and should M disclose country of manufacture to buyers ...

(Stefan, are you saying that in Europe this 39520 doesn't have the "MADE IN CHINA" sticker - that it's added for the US market? Interesting...)

- Bill


39520 is a real Marklin product. Several years ago at Toy Fair my group and I discussed the China issue with Florian Sieber one of the CEOs of Marklin. He stated then that certain special models were going to continue to be made in China. At that time the French SNCF Lok had made its debut, and it was an acknowledged made in China product. I took this to mean, that some products were too detailed/uneconomical to be made in Germany at certain price points acceptable to the consumer. If the list price for 39520 was EUR 950 most people would not buy the Lok. Expected sales quantities are also factored into this calculation.

Most product is and will continue to be made in Germany. In the early days of Chinese experimentation by Marklin, they trusted their suppliers too well and got burned by Zinkpest and delivery issues among other problems. I had a set of American freight cars that had Zinkpest. These were replaced by Marklin. It was several years before the problem was discovered, as I hadn't run the cars, but Marklin still made me whole. Zinkpest is insidious.Angry
From the People's Republik of Kalifornia
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Offline 60904  
#135 Posted : 07 January 2020 08:00:40(UTC)
60904

Germany   
Joined: 27/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 269
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post


Good to hear that zincpest is not a problem with this model.


Well, who can say? It is too early to talk about zinkpest today.



Greetings
Martin
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Offline Unholz  
#136 Posted : 07 January 2020 08:19:51(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,194
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

No No No, the 39520, just like the S2/6 models and others, is designed by Marklin and made under contract in a Chinese facility run by a South Korean company.

...and the boss of that company might be a Vietnamese or a German or a man from Iceland. Wink I simply do not like and trust all this sub-contracting and sharing of responsibility. In German language we have the saying "Zu viele Köche verderben den Brei", or liberally translated: "Too many cooks make the menu uneatable". I want to buy a quality product that is predominantly designed, assembled, and test-run by ONE company, a company that lives TRANSPARENCY.

Quote:

I believe that Marklin has stopped using the company that had been making the items that had zinkpest and other problems.

With due respect: Belief is a very fine thing, but knowledge is far better. Whoever was even aware of the expression Zinkpest when it started to show on the 37521, years after the release of the model? And who would have even remotely thought that a model coming from a grand company no less than Märklin might be affected by this fatal flaw?

Quote:

"Made in China" does not necessarily mean that people are mistreated in the factory where these are made.

Not necessarily, yes - but can you/we exclude the possibility when so much vital information is kept secret by Märklin?

Anyway, it's nice to hear that Mr. Florian Sieber apparently confessed the China production issue in a private discussion with a forum member. But why can't the company just openly admit this on the actual products or their packaging or in the catalogues?
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Offline mbarreto  
#137 Posted : 07 January 2020 11:53:36(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 939
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

...
I suspect you will find that many of the coreless motors used in modern Marklin locos are made outside the European Union.
...


Hi Alan,

I didn't know that coreless motors are being used in new models. Can you tell, please, some new models that are using them?

About the discussion going on now in this thread my opinion is Märklin should be more transparent.

Regards,
Miguel



Mostly Märklin H0.


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Offline Unholz  
#138 Posted : 07 January 2020 14:05:25(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,194
Location: Switzerland
Just a very short digression for those who say "Zinkpest? This doesn't happen anymore": Here are a couple of very recent photos in a French forum of a Hornby/Rivarossi model with Zinkpest. One can only guess where it was made... Huh http://forum.e-train.fr/viewtop...0&start=300#p2388238
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Offline dickinsonj  
#139 Posted : 07 January 2020 14:10:43(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,318
Location: United States
It is time for me to unsubscribe from this thread, because it has been hijacked by forum members who fear any products not made by elves in Germany, and no longer has anything to do with the Fc2x3/4.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline RayF  
#140 Posted : 07 January 2020 14:37:57(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,691
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
It is time for me to unsubscribe from this thread, because it has been hijacked by forum members who fear any products not made by elves in Germany, and no longer has anything to do with the Fc2x3/4.


Bravo, Jim!

I agree. There seems to be a pathological fear of anything not "Made in Germany".

If this is not bad enough there is also this suspicion that Marklin is somehow out to deceive us all the time. How about we all just chill and enjoy our beautifully made model trains?

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline David Dewar  
#141 Posted : 07 January 2020 17:07:22(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,902
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
It is time for me to unsubscribe from this thread, because it has been hijacked by forum members who fear any products not made by elves in Germany, and no longer has anything to do with the Fc2x3/4.


Bravo, Jim!

I agree. There seems to be a pathological fear of anything not "Made in Germany".

If this is not bad enough there is also this suspicion that Marklin is somehow out to deceive us all the time. How about we all just chill and enjoy our beautifully made model trains?



Agreed. The Marklin bashers always join this type of thread. I own a Piko loco and have not looked to see where it was made and I don't care as it runs well as do my Marklin locos. As Jim says above what started as an interesting thread ends about talking about big bad Marklin. Not everything produced is perfect no matter where it is made. Even German cars are below those from Japan for reliability but the interior finish is better so you buy what you choose.
Almost everything I buy these days is from China or S Korea etc and I don't look at labels but are only concerned if they work as described.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#142 Posted : 07 January 2020 18:25:38(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,970
Location: NY, NY
I have been very hesitant to comment on yet another "Made in China" thread, but I have to point out one thing which has not been clearly mentioned:

Chinese subcontractors are capable of producing as good or as bad a model as the parent company wishes/demands. (or is willing to pay them for) It is up to Marklin to police and prescribe detail, quality control, metallurgy and more. Either via contract, an on site manager, or a final inspection.

As many of you know, I work for a well known automobile company with multiple plants across 3 continents. Standards are the same across all plants of course, but the best consistency/least issues come from the Chinese plant. Not by much, but it says something.

So in the end, I place blame for any issues on Marklin. I don't want a failure on a $200 loco or a $600 loco. I will purchase according to what I like and can afford, but I expect a quality item otherwise I lose faith in the brand, and will make less new train purchases. I had 3 of the seetal crocodiles crumble on me. THREE of them. And not just castings, those plastic gears as well which break. That was an expensive lesson. I don't care about country of assembly, I care about the $1000 pile of parts in my closet.

At the moment I can't justify new locos over ~$400 on my hobby budget without sacrificing other things I want, or selling existing trains to fund them- which as you all know from my for sale postings happens often. The curse of being married! BigGrin LOL Flapper

So that being said, China or not its up to Marklin to deliver quality and fix any issues which may creep up later

Edited by user 08 January 2020 05:31:07(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
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Offline Goofy  
#143 Posted : 08 January 2020 06:59:20(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,264
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post


As @midwestbls wrote in his post #93 already: yes, it is made in China. Why should I not trust @midwestbls? And in the last posts in this thread, it is confirmed again. Why are you in doubt about it?

Well this thread is about the loco 39520 from Maerklin. Unfortunately it is not a business administration seminar about the management decision of buying an article somewhere or producing the product inhouse. This we can dicuss, but in another thread, please.

I never have read the fact Maerklin is operating an own company with a production plant in China after 2013, the year the Sieber family bought Maerklin. As we have seen the product was "Made in China" only the option remains, this loco is built (perhaps even constructed too) by a Chinese company. But for me, it is a real Maerklin product, not a branded one, because it is "Made under Maerklin's superintendence".



The thread is about locomotive which involves in anything about it.
It is now confirm made in China by cheap chinise workers with low payment.
The prices of the locomotive is however too high to be made in China.
I am pretty sure it is brand name of Märklin that cost by increase the prices?

Offline David Dewar  
#144 Posted : 08 January 2020 11:43:38(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,902
Location: Scotland
With resect to the original poster is it not time to close this thread which is now about Marklin keeping secrets and zincpest and China.
Thankfully those buying the loco like it so why not leave it like that and let those who don't like Marklin made outside Germany have their own thread which others can avoid and get on with what we like about our hobby.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline Unholz  
#145 Posted : 08 January 2020 15:00:20(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,194
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
With resect to the original poster is it not time to close this thread which is now about Marklin keeping secrets and zincpest and China.

Why don't you just avoid this thread if you can't stand even mildly critical remarks about this model and the circumstances of its manufacture. Cursing So far, censorship of opinions has luckily never been a feature of this open-minded and interesting forum. ThumpUp

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Offline RayF  
#146 Posted : 08 January 2020 18:10:26(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,691
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
With resect to the original poster is it not time to close this thread which is now about Marklin keeping secrets and zincpest and China.

Why don't you just avoid this thread if you can't stand even mildly critical remarks about this model and the circumstances of its manufacture. Cursing So far, censorship of opinions has luckily never been a feature of this open-minded and interesting forum. ThumpUp



Mildly critical? Any sign of a "Made in China" sticker and some people are immediately out for blood! As David said, the thread has seriously degenerated into political bias and conspiracy theories about "so called" secretive behaviour. By all means let those who want to discuss these generic issues do so, but open a thread about that, so that those of us who just want to know about new locos don't have to suffer the same old tired anti-Chinese propaganda!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#147 Posted : 08 January 2020 19:01:28(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,087
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

It is now confirm made in China by cheap chinise workers with low payment.


And you know this how? What evidence do you have for this statement?

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

The prices of the locomotive is however too high to be made in China.


And what evidence do you have for this statement?

Offline David Dewar  
#148 Posted : 08 January 2020 20:54:18(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,902
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
With resect to the original poster is it not time to close this thread which is now about Marklin keeping secrets and zincpest and China.

Why don't you just avoid this thread if you can't stand even mildly critical remarks about this model and the circumstances of its manufacture. Cursing So far, censorship of opinions has luckily never been a feature of this open-minded and interesting forum. ThumpUp



Mildly critical? Any sign of a "Made in China" sticker and some people are immediately out for blood! As David said, the thread has seriously degenerated into political bias and conspiracy theories about "so called" secretive behaviour. By all means let those who want to discuss these generic issues do so, but open a thread about that, so that those of us who just want to know about new locos don't have to suffer the same old tired anti-Chinese propaganda!



With certain comments what was a good thread about a model ends up being useless to anybody thinking of buying it.

I am still interested in how it runs etc but I expect those who own it will by now have left the thread which is a shame but understandable.

Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline mrmarklin  
#149 Posted : 09 January 2020 01:07:37(UTC)
mrmarklin

United States   
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 816
Location: Burney, CA



With certain comments what was a good thread about a model ends up being useless to anybody thinking of buying it.

I am still interested in how it runs etc but I expect those who own it will by now have left the thread which is a shame but understandable.



I just received mine a few days ago. It is a great model and runs well. Buy it!!!!BigGrin

From the People's Republik of Kalifornia
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Offline TEEWolf  
#150 Posted : 09 January 2020 05:27:00(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,389
Originally Posted by: 60904 Go to Quoted Post
Well, I am not surprised that this model is produced in China. Just have a look at the pantograph. It simply is a non European Märklin device, although correct in its appearance. A Märklin engineer would never have equipped it with this. It is just not working because it is way to small for a model catenary. I tested the model. Nothing to criticize about its appearance or driving behavior.

Chinese and many other people around the world can manufacture according to Märklin or Roco standards but the thing is why do they pretend that they produce in Europe when lots of their stuff has been shipped around the world. By law they have to put the label on the box in the US. Why not here? I have the feeling that the Märklin people think we have no world wide communication. We are not living in a gated country.

As already said by someone the most worrying thing is about the material, not the quality of modeling. We all have experienced ZINKPEST too often durin recent years.

Roco does not have a problem with the country of origin.


If somebody loves Rocco (where it is known they have a company in Vietnam) or other competitors, this is fine, but what are you looking for in a forum about Maerklin? Maerklin is very well aware Germany is not a gated country. But Maerklin also knows, Germany is not ruling the world.

Meanwhile I have a problem with people writing against the company for which this forum was installed. If somebody likes the competitor's company more, why don't choose their communities?

It is boaring to hear agin and again and again every time what has happened ages ago. If somebody is frightend about any product, then just do not buy it. Live can be very easy.


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