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Offline mbarreto  
#1 Posted : 02 February 2019 18:57:02(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 854

What do you think of the recently announced Märklin decoders 60906 and 60983?

The 60983 seems a replacement for the 60982, but I don't understadn the difference.

The 60906 seems kind of replacement for old 6080 and 60760 (just considering the decoder of the later). Basically it allows for:
1- Use of the AC motors without the need to convert them to DC (some savings in new conversions at the expense of no regulation and less power whencompared to the 5 pole DCMs);
2- Use of more protocols where mfx will be the most interesting for most of us;
3- Upgrade from the 60760, giving at least more protocols;
4- Powerful outputs for control of TELEX and smoke.

I think "1-"is interesting if it will allows for the use of AC motors (in old locomotives) with a similar running totheir origianl AC running and this in opposition to the harsh running provided by a 6080, specially at low speeds.

Regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


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Offline kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 02 February 2019 19:26:23(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,460
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post

The 60983 seems a replacement for the 60982, but I don't understadn the difference.


I think it is a smaller PCB to fit into locos with very little space. Having this coming out has also caused some dealers to discount the 60982.

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Offline Crazy Harry  
#3 Posted : 03 February 2019 00:23:19(UTC)
Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 313
Location: Oakville, Ontario
I agree with the previous posts:

The 60906 seems to be a decoder for modifying old locomotives. No need to change the field coil to a permanent magnet. Still waiting for them to post the instruction sheet.

As for the the 60982 vs. 60983 - I can't see a difference in the current description. Maybe the new one is a smaller unit. Why doesn't Marklin publish the physical dimensions of their decoders?

Cheers,

Harold.
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Offline clapcott  
#4 Posted : 03 February 2019 03:40:10(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,235
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
I concur with the comments about the inadequacies of the online catalogue.

However the New Items brochure does highlight / focus on ...
"It has particularly powerful function outputs for old Telex couplers, light bulbs, and smoke generators"
this does not signal to me a reduction in size - more likely an improvement in technology has allowed for more power in the existing footprint

The history of decoders have variously needed to limit the power .
Currently with improvements in motors, lights (to LEDs), modern telex and modern smoke unit has meant .

The current range of decoder have specs like
Continuous current load at the motor output <= 1.1 amps
Current load at the light outputs ......... <= 250 milliamps
Current load at AUX 1 – AUX 4 each ........ <= 250 milliamps
Current load at AUX + lights (total) ...... <= 300 milliamps
Current load for motor and AUX 5/6 ........ <= 1.1 amps
Maximum total load ........................ <= 1.6 amps


A lot of people look at the "AUX 1 – AUX 4 each .... <= 250 milliamps" and think that means an Amp of lighting without appreciating either the total functions <= 300 or total decoder <=1.6A.
Peter
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Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 03 February 2019 10:34:06(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,498
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post
I think "1-"is interesting if it will allows for the use of AC motors (in old locomotives) with a similar running totheir origianl AC running and this in opposition to the harsh running provided by a 6080, specially at low speeds.
AFAIK you can wire and configure any decoder for use with the old AC/DC motors.
But don't expect anything better than a 6080 with acceleration and braking delay - with the 60906 like with any other decoder.


Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
this does not signal to me a reduction in size
There is a powerful decoder for AC/DC motors and there is a smaller decoder for DC motors.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline mbarreto  
#6 Posted : 03 February 2019 11:00:18(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 854
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

AFAIK you can wire and configure any decoder for use with the old AC/DC motors.
But don't expect anything better than a 6080 with acceleration and braking delay - with the 60906 like with any other decoder.



Thanks for your answer. The use of any decoder for use with AC motors is not documented for the current decoders and so it is kind of "not supported" by the decoder manufacturers, although if it is possible it is good.

Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline bph  
#7 Posted : 22 April 2019 17:25:20(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 68
Location: Sout East Norway.
Originally Posted by: Crazy Harry Go to Quoted Post
I agree with the previous posts:

The 60906 seems to be a decoder for modifying old locomotives. No need to change the field coil to a permanent magnet. Still waiting for them to post the instruction sheet.

Cheers,

Harold.


Seems that you are right. Märklin posted the manual a couple of weeks ago.
It's a replacement for old 6080 ore delta decoders. With support for high load AUX.

And its has no motor control. (it's a feature....).

I also observe that it supports soft telex but not the new "FGL" telex, yet?.

Spec:
• Dimensions (L x W) 35 x 20.4 mm / 1-3/8“ x 13/16“
• Continuous load at motor outputs ≤ 1.6 amps
• Load at light outputs ≤ 1.4 amps
• Load AUX 1 – AUX 2 ea. ≤ 1.4 amps
• Load AUX + light(s) (total) ≤ 1.4 amps
• Max. load (total) ≤ 1.6 amps
• Max. voltage ≤ 40 volts
• Short circuit and overload protection at the outputs Front
Light(s) (LV), Rear Light(s) (LH), AUX 1 – AUX 2 and at the
motor outputs.
Offline mbarreto  
#8 Posted : 22 April 2019 18:12:00(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 854

I think the idea relative to Telex couplers control is all about the old Telex couplers from the 60ies and 70ies. For example for the conversion of a 3047 with Telex without change to the permanent magnet motor and at the expense of no load control.

IMHO a better number for the new decoder would be 60800 instead of the 60906. Anyway that is not important.
Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline amartinezv  
#9 Posted : 23 April 2019 08:59:54(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 243
Location: Madrid,

Hello,

I am struck by the reference of the 60906 decoder, it seems to belong to the 6090x family, however on the website of märklin itself states:

""The classic unregulated running behavior under different loads remains preserved on "Old and Youngtimers" upgraded with this decoder.""

In other words, it has no load regulation, which for me is the most important feature of the 6090 family.
However, in the manual, which can be downloaded from the Märklin website, it states that the minimum speed, maximum speed, acceleration and braking times, typical characteristics of decoders with load regulation, can be configured.

??? It's very confusing.
And the price, I think is more expensive than a LokPilot + permanent magnet stator.

You'd have to buy one and try it. Volunteers?

Best regards
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
Offline mbarreto  
#10 Posted : 23 April 2019 09:55:54(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 854

Load regulation has the outcome of keep the speed constant when the load varies, like for example when going from flat to a climbing or the other way around the speed is being controlled for not change.
Acceleration and braking delay is the time the locomotive needs to go to the previously set speed.
So they are different and controlled in a different way. The 60906 only has this feature but no load regulation.
The 60906 is designed for series motors (they don't have permanent magnet) only, like the old 6080.
The 6080 was much more basic with less speed steps, only the old MM protocol support, no acceleration and braking delay, less outputs, etc.

The price is indeed close to what one can get with a permanent magnet + a new decoder with DCC (that will provide also laod regulation). I didn't check the current limits for the 60906 (will do it later) but I think they are considerably higher than for the other decoders, and it will allow an easier control of high current functions like smoke or Telex.
Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline ktsolias  
#11 Posted : 23 April 2019 10:29:41(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 390
Location: Athens
Hi

The 60906 decoder is a modern mfx version of the 6080.

Has 2 Functions except the lights, no motor control.

I am waiting some but I have't receive them yet, to see how they perform

The only use that I can see is some old Locos with LFCM or SFCM that was no 5pole DC motor available from Marklin or the conversion needs a lot of work

Marklin as you know has a catalog with the locos that can be converted with the 60943 and 60944 motors

Great examples are the 3089, 3092, 3093, 3111, 3072, 3015 etc even the 3000 have a problem with the lower screw.

I think that the conversion is very easy, instead of the conversion with ESU magnets and decoders that after needed a lot of CV changes.

Is not a solution for the high end modeler, but will give new live to many locos that stay unused because the conversion was either impossible or very expensive (to much work).

And don't forget that many times the cost of the conversion is to high (motor, decoder, work), and is better to buy a new version of the loco, more detailing, with mfx sound etc, and 5 years guaranty.

The 60983 is just a 60982 but with the 8pin pcb already soldered....

60760 is a different think. Is an fx decoder with 5pole DC regulated motor... Another planet...

Regards

Costas
Offline GaryTrooper  
#12 Posted : 31 August 2019 21:54:54(UTC)
GaryTrooper

United States   
Joined: 26/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 153
Location: Hailey, Idaho
Can anyone tell me tell what the purple wire is for on the 60906? I can't seem to find a description.

Thanks in advance,

Gary

Screenshot_20190831-134847_Drive~2.jpg

Edited by user 01 September 2019 17:51:28(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

G - LGB
O - Lionel and MTH
HO - Marklin
N - Mix of manufacturers mostly Kato
Offline GaryTrooper  
#13 Posted : 31 August 2019 23:49:30(UTC)
GaryTrooper

United States   
Joined: 26/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 153
Location: Hailey, Idaho
The 60906 breathes new life into the old CCS-800! It's a good day.

G - LGB
O - Lionel and MTH
HO - Marklin
N - Mix of manufacturers mostly Kato
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Offline bph  
#14 Posted : 01 September 2019 17:02:54(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 68
Location: Sout East Norway.
Originally Posted by: GaryTrooper Go to Quoted Post
Can anyone tell me tell what the purple wire is for on the 60906? I can seem to find a description.

Thanks in advance,

Gary



Hi
It' most likely decoder ground, eg used together with some light switching circuit boards like 605242.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#15 Posted : 02 September 2019 12:02:03(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 522
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: GaryTrooper Go to Quoted Post
The 60906 breathes new life into the old CCS-800! It's a good day.

Hi Gary

Very interesting upgrade.I did the same with an old 6090 decoder (coming from a Sound upgrade of a steam loco) and 2 Schottky diodes to drive only one of the two coil windings.
Here is the result:

Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
General operation
Loco change
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Offline Crazy Harry  
#16 Posted : 02 September 2019 19:38:27(UTC)
Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 313
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted by: GaryTrooper Go to Quoted Post
Can anyone tell me tell what the purple wire is for on the 60906? I can't seem to find a description.

Thanks in advance,

Gary


From page 13 of the instructions: "The violet wire serves as the „Electronics Ground“, such as
for a buffer condenser."

I don't know how to connect it, but I hope this helps. Cheers,

Harold
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Offline GaryTrooper  
#17 Posted : 06 September 2019 05:32:27(UTC)
GaryTrooper

United States   
Joined: 26/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 153
Location: Hailey, Idaho
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GaryTrooper Go to Quoted Post
The 60906 breathes new life into the old CCS-800! It's a good day.

Hi Gary

Very interesting upgrade.I did the same with an old 6090 decoder (coming from a Sound upgrade of a steam loco) and 2 Schottky diodes to drive only one of the two coil windings.
Here is the result:

Cheers
Jean


Very nice! And your layout looks like a lot of fun.

Gary
G - LGB
O - Lionel and MTH
HO - Marklin
N - Mix of manufacturers mostly Kato
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