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Offline mbarreto  
#1 Posted : 02 February 2019 18:57:02(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 975

What do you think of the recently announced Märklin decoders 60906 and 60983?

The 60983 seems a replacement for the 60982, but I don't understadn the difference.

The 60906 seems kind of replacement for old 6080 and 60760 (just considering the decoder of the later). Basically it allows for:
1- Use of the AC motors without the need to convert them to DC (some savings in new conversions at the expense of no regulation and less power whencompared to the 5 pole DCMs);
2- Use of more protocols where mfx will be the most interesting for most of us;
3- Upgrade from the 60760, giving at least more protocols;
4- Powerful outputs for control of TELEX and smoke.

I think "1-"is interesting if it will allows for the use of AC motors (in old locomotives) with a similar running totheir origianl AC running and this in opposition to the harsh running provided by a 6080, specially at low speeds.

Regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


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Offline kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 02 February 2019 19:26:23(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,904
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post

The 60983 seems a replacement for the 60982, but I don't understadn the difference.


I think it is a smaller PCB to fit into locos with very little space. Having this coming out has also caused some dealers to discount the 60982.

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Offline Crazy Harry  
#3 Posted : 03 February 2019 00:23:19(UTC)
Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 401
Location: Oakville, Ontario
I agree with the previous posts:

The 60906 seems to be a decoder for modifying old locomotives. No need to change the field coil to a permanent magnet. Still waiting for them to post the instruction sheet.

As for the the 60982 vs. 60983 - I can't see a difference in the current description. Maybe the new one is a smaller unit. Why doesn't Marklin publish the physical dimensions of their decoders?

Cheers,

Harold.
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Offline clapcott  
#4 Posted : 03 February 2019 03:40:10(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,410
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
I concur with the comments about the inadequacies of the online catalogue.

However the New Items brochure does highlight / focus on ...
"It has particularly powerful function outputs for old Telex couplers, light bulbs, and smoke generators"
this does not signal to me a reduction in size - more likely an improvement in technology has allowed for more power in the existing footprint

The history of decoders have variously needed to limit the power .
Currently with improvements in motors, lights (to LEDs), modern telex and modern smoke unit has meant .

The current range of decoder have specs like
Continuous current load at the motor output <= 1.1 amps
Current load at the light outputs ......... <= 250 milliamps
Current load at AUX 1 – AUX 4 each ........ <= 250 milliamps
Current load at AUX + lights (total) ...... <= 300 milliamps
Current load for motor and AUX 5/6 ........ <= 1.1 amps
Maximum total load ........................ <= 1.6 amps


A lot of people look at the "AUX 1 – AUX 4 each .... <= 250 milliamps" and think that means an Amp of lighting without appreciating either the total functions <= 300 or total decoder <=1.6A.
Peter
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Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 03 February 2019 10:34:06(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,112
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post
I think "1-"is interesting if it will allows for the use of AC motors (in old locomotives) with a similar running totheir origianl AC running and this in opposition to the harsh running provided by a 6080, specially at low speeds.
AFAIK you can wire and configure any decoder for use with the old AC/DC motors.
But don't expect anything better than a 6080 with acceleration and braking delay - with the 60906 like with any other decoder.


Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
this does not signal to me a reduction in size
There is a powerful decoder for AC/DC motors and there is a smaller decoder for DC motors.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline mbarreto  
#6 Posted : 03 February 2019 11:00:18(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 975
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

AFAIK you can wire and configure any decoder for use with the old AC/DC motors.
But don't expect anything better than a 6080 with acceleration and braking delay - with the 60906 like with any other decoder.



Thanks for your answer. The use of any decoder for use with AC motors is not documented for the current decoders and so it is kind of "not supported" by the decoder manufacturers, although if it is possible it is good.

Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline bph  
#7 Posted : 22 April 2019 17:25:20(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 326
Originally Posted by: Crazy Harry Go to Quoted Post
I agree with the previous posts:

The 60906 seems to be a decoder for modifying old locomotives. No need to change the field coil to a permanent magnet. Still waiting for them to post the instruction sheet.

Cheers,

Harold.


Seems that you are right. Märklin posted the manual a couple of weeks ago.
It's a replacement for old 6080 ore delta decoders. With support for high load AUX.

And its has no motor control. (it's a feature....).

I also observe that it supports soft telex but not the new "FGL" telex, yet?.

Spec:
• Dimensions (L x W) 35 x 20.4 mm / 1-3/8“ x 13/16“
• Continuous load at motor outputs ≤ 1.6 amps
• Load at light outputs ≤ 1.4 amps
• Load AUX 1 – AUX 2 ea. ≤ 1.4 amps
• Load AUX + light(s) (total) ≤ 1.4 amps
• Max. load (total) ≤ 1.6 amps
• Max. voltage ≤ 40 volts
• Short circuit and overload protection at the outputs Front
Light(s) (LV), Rear Light(s) (LH), AUX 1 – AUX 2 and at the
motor outputs.
Offline mbarreto  
#8 Posted : 22 April 2019 18:12:00(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 975

I think the idea relative to Telex couplers control is all about the old Telex couplers from the 60ies and 70ies. For example for the conversion of a 3047 with Telex without change to the permanent magnet motor and at the expense of no load control.

IMHO a better number for the new decoder would be 60800 instead of the 60906. Anyway that is not important.
Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline amartinezv  
#9 Posted : 23 April 2019 08:59:54(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 296
Location: Madrid,

Hello,

I am struck by the reference of the 60906 decoder, it seems to belong to the 6090x family, however on the website of märklin itself states:

""The classic unregulated running behavior under different loads remains preserved on "Old and Youngtimers" upgraded with this decoder.""

In other words, it has no load regulation, which for me is the most important feature of the 6090 family.
However, in the manual, which can be downloaded from the Märklin website, it states that the minimum speed, maximum speed, acceleration and braking times, typical characteristics of decoders with load regulation, can be configured.

??? It's very confusing.
And the price, I think is more expensive than a LokPilot + permanent magnet stator.

You'd have to buy one and try it. Volunteers?

Best regards
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
Offline mbarreto  
#10 Posted : 23 April 2019 09:55:54(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 975

Load regulation has the outcome of keep the speed constant when the load varies, like for example when going from flat to a climbing or the other way around the speed is being controlled for not change.
Acceleration and braking delay is the time the locomotive needs to go to the previously set speed.
So they are different and controlled in a different way. The 60906 only has this feature but no load regulation.
The 60906 is designed for series motors (they don't have permanent magnet) only, like the old 6080.
The 6080 was much more basic with less speed steps, only the old MM protocol support, no acceleration and braking delay, less outputs, etc.

The price is indeed close to what one can get with a permanent magnet + a new decoder with DCC (that will provide also laod regulation). I didn't check the current limits for the 60906 (will do it later) but I think they are considerably higher than for the other decoders, and it will allow an easier control of high current functions like smoke or Telex.
Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline ktsolias  
#11 Posted : 23 April 2019 10:29:41(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 536
Location: Athens
Hi

The 60906 decoder is a modern mfx version of the 6080.

Has 2 Functions except the lights, no motor control.

I am waiting some but I have't receive them yet, to see how they perform

The only use that I can see is some old Locos with LFCM or SFCM that was no 5pole DC motor available from Marklin or the conversion needs a lot of work

Marklin as you know has a catalog with the locos that can be converted with the 60943 and 60944 motors

Great examples are the 3089, 3092, 3093, 3111, 3072, 3015 etc even the 3000 have a problem with the lower screw.

I think that the conversion is very easy, instead of the conversion with ESU magnets and decoders that after needed a lot of CV changes.

Is not a solution for the high end modeler, but will give new live to many locos that stay unused because the conversion was either impossible or very expensive (to much work).

And don't forget that many times the cost of the conversion is to high (motor, decoder, work), and is better to buy a new version of the loco, more detailing, with mfx sound etc, and 5 years guaranty.

The 60983 is just a 60982 but with the 8pin pcb already soldered....

60760 is a different think. Is an fx decoder with 5pole DC regulated motor... Another planet...

Regards

Costas
Offline GaryTrooper  
#12 Posted : 31 August 2019 21:54:54(UTC)
GaryTrooper

United States   
Joined: 26/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 297
Location: Hailey, Idaho
Can anyone tell me tell what the purple wire is for on the 60906? I can't seem to find a description.

Thanks in advance,

Gary

Screenshot_20190831-134847_Drive~2.jpg

Edited by user 01 September 2019 17:51:28(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

G - LGB
O - Lionel and MTH
HO - Marklin
N - Mix of manufacturers mostly Kato
Offline GaryTrooper  
#13 Posted : 31 August 2019 23:49:30(UTC)
GaryTrooper

United States   
Joined: 26/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 297
Location: Hailey, Idaho
The 60906 breathes new life into the old CCS-800! It's a good day.

G - LGB
O - Lionel and MTH
HO - Marklin
N - Mix of manufacturers mostly Kato
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Offline bph  
#14 Posted : 01 September 2019 17:02:54(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 326
Originally Posted by: GaryTrooper Go to Quoted Post
Can anyone tell me tell what the purple wire is for on the 60906? I can seem to find a description.

Thanks in advance,

Gary



Hi
It' most likely decoder ground, eg used together with some light switching circuit boards like 605242.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#15 Posted : 02 September 2019 12:02:03(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,507
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: GaryTrooper Go to Quoted Post
The 60906 breathes new life into the old CCS-800! It's a good day.

Hi Gary

Very interesting upgrade.I did the same with an old 6090 decoder (coming from a Sound upgrade of a steam loco) and 2 Schottky diodes to drive only one of the two coil windings.
Here is the result:

Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
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Offline Crazy Harry  
#16 Posted : 02 September 2019 19:38:27(UTC)
Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 401
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted by: GaryTrooper Go to Quoted Post
Can anyone tell me tell what the purple wire is for on the 60906? I can't seem to find a description.

Thanks in advance,

Gary


From page 13 of the instructions: "The violet wire serves as the „Electronics Ground“, such as
for a buffer condenser."

I don't know how to connect it, but I hope this helps. Cheers,

Harold
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Offline GaryTrooper  
#17 Posted : 06 September 2019 05:32:27(UTC)
GaryTrooper

United States   
Joined: 26/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 297
Location: Hailey, Idaho
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GaryTrooper Go to Quoted Post
The 60906 breathes new life into the old CCS-800! It's a good day.

Hi Gary

Very interesting upgrade.I did the same with an old 6090 decoder (coming from a Sound upgrade of a steam loco) and 2 Schottky diodes to drive only one of the two coil windings.
Here is the result:

Cheers
Jean


Very nice! And your layout looks like a lot of fun.

Gary
G - LGB
O - Lionel and MTH
HO - Marklin
N - Mix of manufacturers mostly Kato
Offline kfish2  
#18 Posted : 21 June 2020 04:26:54(UTC)
kfish2

United States   
Joined: 28/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Colorado, Denver
I bought 2 of these to experiment with.

I used one to replace a 6080 in a BR194. It was an easy swap, and the new decoder has the alternate current return for the lights, so they don't flicker like they did on the 6080.

I am frustrated with the lack of details in the manual. It states the decoder works with (in preferred order) MFX, DCC, FX protocols. It lists CV settings for FX, and for DCC, but does not mention anything about MFX CVs. I dont know enough about MFX to know if this is a stupid question, but are the CV registers the same? I can live without the speed regulation because the 6080 never had it, but I wanted to be able to reduce the top speed. The manual says this CV5, but no matter how low I set that value, the loco still runs just as fast. It is fast enough to derail on R1 curves. The manual says the default for CV5 is 59 (out of a range of 0-63). I can set it to 5 and it does not seem to change anything. One of the MFX functions is what I call the "switcher" setting (Rabbit Icon on my ECOS) which drops the top speed. It is still too fast, but at least it does not derail on tight curves.

Has anyone had success with limiting the maximum speed with the 60906?

Offline JohnjeanB  
#19 Posted : 21 June 2020 11:22:32(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,507
Location: Paris, France
Hi

@Gary: yes loads of fun. Thanks but the layout is now replaced with this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6WnhXPcRqI
@kfish2: Those parameters are very easy to adjust with a CS2 or CS3 (on first loco parameter screen on a CS2, last update)
Back-up BR 01 138.png
Looking further in the CVs we have this
Lok Konfiguration BR 01 138 CV-Motor 1.png
Where you can see that:
CV3: acceleration delay
CV4: braking delay
CV5: max speed.
These CVs can be modified using many devices. What is yours?
I hope this helps
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
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Offline bph  
#20 Posted : 21 June 2020 15:59:25(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 326
Originally Posted by: kfish2 Go to Quoted Post
I bought 2 of these to experiment with.

I used one to replace a 6080 in a BR194. It was an easy swap, and the new decoder has the alternate current return for the lights, so they don't flicker like they did on the 6080.

I am frustrated with the lack of details in the manual. It states the decoder works with (in preferred order) MFX, DCC, FX protocols. It lists CV settings for FX, and for DCC, but does not mention anything about MFX CVs. I dont know enough about MFX to know if this is a stupid question, but are the CV registers the same? I can live without the speed regulation because the 6080 never had it, but I wanted to be able to reduce the top speed. The manual says this CV5, but no matter how low I set that value, the loco still runs just as fast. It is fast enough to derail on R1 curves. The manual says the default for CV5 is 59 (out of a range of 0-63). I can set it to 5 and it does not seem to change anything. One of the MFX functions is what I call the "switcher" setting (Rabbit Icon on my ECOS) which drops the top speed. It is still too fast, but at least it does not derail on tight curves.

Has anyone had success with limiting the maximum speed with the 60906?



Hi
I have changed the 60906 max speed, with my cs3 using mfx and had no issues.

what you can try, is to disable 2 of 3 protocols on the Ecos, and do the programming. E.g. test out, disabling mfx and DCC on the ecos and then program the decoder in MM mode. or disable MM and mfx and program in DCC etc.

the Switching Range, is by default set to 50% speed reduction, but you can change it with cv 137.

Please note that I have never used an Ecos, so others here might have some better suggestions.
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Offline kfish2  
#21 Posted : 21 June 2020 16:15:21(UTC)
kfish2

United States   
Joined: 28/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Colorado, Denver
Thanks for the responses. My ESU ECOS does not have such a nice display for MFX CVs. It does allow me to set the CV values for MFX and FX decoders, but they cannot be read, so its hard to be 100% sure the change was accepted by the decoder. Maybe I will look for someone in my area who has a CS2 or CS3, so I can put my loco on their programming track and see how it looks.

Thanks too, for the suggestion about CV 137. Perhaps I can set that to 40% or 35% and get all the results I need.

I will also see about forcing one of the other protocols like DCC and see how it then performs. I know the decoder supports DCC, so I should be able to read those values, but I am not sure if DCC CV5, FX CV5, and MFX CV5 are one single storage register, or whether there are in-fact 3 values for each CV stored in the decoder at any given time.

Thanks again for responding

Ken
Offline kfish2  
#22 Posted : 02 April 2021 03:38:28(UTC)
kfish2

United States   
Joined: 28/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Colorado, Denver
I was never really able to adjust the 60906 decoder with my ECOS, but based on suggestions here, I bought a starter set with an MS-2, and as several of you described, the decoder responded perfectly to the Marklin commands. So, I now have realistic max speed, I have set the minimum speed such that the loco moves consistently on at speed-step-1, and I was able to disable momentum which is something my control software (iTrain) prefers. I am not sure why the Marklin device can set the CV values and the ECOS cannot, but its handy having the MS-2 for temporary layouts, and for now its part of my work-bench/test-track. Thanks all for the help. Oh, and I ordered about 10 more of the 60906 to replace the 6080 and Deltas decoders in my trains. I may update some of them eventually with a permanent magnet set-up, but the 60906 is a simple swap, and they run much much better, plus you get the auto-registration feature of mfx.
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bph
Offline Bryan  
#23 Posted : 03 April 2021 00:45:53(UTC)
Bryan

Australia   
Joined: 08/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 117
Location: Bowral, NSW, Australia
Dear All

Marklin for quite a while produced the 614860 electronic reverse unit for their AC only locos. This was a replacement for the previous 610010 electronic unit that was standard issue in the later 33* series locomotives.

The 614860 was used also when the electro-mechanical units were discontinued about 2003 as a spares alternative to these as well. The later 614860 has just been discontinued by Marklin and suspect the 60960 is the new replacement for it.

The 614860 was similar in price to the 60960 and the 60960 runs on AC. The big difference bing the later if required runs on digital.

The 60960 also of course is for analogue to digital conversions where the AC motor cannot be changed to a DC type. The 60960 introduction made all Marklin AC locomotive convertible to digital.

David
Offline Burqueno  
#24 Posted : 03 April 2021 03:05:56(UTC)
Burqueno

United States   
Joined: 25/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: New Mexico, Albuquerque
I just put the 60906 decoders in my BR 221 diesel (#3482) and T-18 Tank loco (#3109) both with the old field coil AC motors. I tried putting the locos on my programing track but the CS3 would not read either of them, so I put them on the regular track and tried again, still no luck. I restarted the CS3 and there were two new "?? MfX loco" with address 13 and 15 showing. I was then able to edit these and set the acceleration / braking delay (to 5 because I like quick throttle response) set the top speed ( to max 255) and min speed (set to 35). The decoder allows up to 8 functions, but i only use the headlight on/off and "turtle speed" as neither has any other options. Both now run very well and can go down to as low as "10" on the speed scale without problems, a nice improvement over their previous analog performance.

I put the 60941 DC motor conversion and 60982 MfX decoder in my Apple Green S3/6 (#33182- originally the AC motor with Delta decoder). The 60982 decoder is about 2/3 the size of the 60906 and will fit in almost any loco, but it has lots of (unused) wires that crowd things up. The performance is superb - it moves in forward and reverse with the speed set at ONE. If you can make the DC motor fit without too much work this is the way to go.
Offline marklinist5999  
#25 Posted : 03 April 2021 13:26:07(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 474
Location: Michigan, Troy
I had considered upgrading my 3360 br 111. It has a delta decoder. It's a strong puller with smooth gearing. Without also upgrading to high efficiency motor, I don't think it will help much. I'll have to see how it handles the grades when my new layout is up and running. I'm waiting for a backorder of piers and ramps so I can screw down the tracks.
Offline kfish2  
#26 Posted : 03 April 2021 17:35:21(UTC)
kfish2

United States   
Joined: 28/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Colorado, Denver
I upgraded my br 194 with the 60906; I think it has much better running than it did with the 6080. Yes, its not the high-efficiency, but it runs well in my opinion.

@Burqueno, I had success with increasing the minimum speed value of the 60906 so that it will run at speed-step 1. It goes the same speed it did at the previous lowest lowest setting (in your case 10), but it goes this speed with the first click. I reduced the maximum speed to something that would prevent it from de-railing over R1 curves, and so now all 128 speed steps are usable. My personal opinion is that 128 speed steps is more than I need, but I guess that for engines that run very very slowly (the high efficiency ones) 128 steps is perhaps more useful.
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Offline Burqueno  
#27 Posted : 03 April 2021 18:32:01(UTC)
Burqueno

United States   
Joined: 25/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: New Mexico, Albuquerque
I will try setting the min/max speeds back to 50 /240 were they were defaulted and see how they run that way.
Offline kfish2  
#28 Posted : 03 April 2021 19:07:15(UTC)
kfish2

United States   
Joined: 28/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Colorado, Denver
I had to experiment a little to find the right numbers. I do not have enough of these to understand if there is a pattern. Maybe the min should be 50, or 30, or 70. I started with getting the max speed where I liked it, and then experimented with the minimum.
Offline marklinist5999  
#29 Posted : 03 April 2021 21:54:49(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 474
Location: Michigan, Troy
Originally Posted by: kfish2 Go to Quoted Post
I upgraded my br 194 with the 60906; I think it has much better running than it did with the 6080. Yes, its not the high-efficiency, but it runs well in my opinion.

@Burqueno, I had success with increasing the minimum speed value of the 60906 so that it will run at speed-step 1. It goes the same speed it did at the previous lowest lowest setting (in your case 10), but it goes this speed with the first click. I reduced the maximum speed to something that would prevent it from de-railing over R1 curves, and so now all 128 speed steps are usable. My personal opinion is that 128 speed steps is more than I need, but I guess that for engines that run very very slowly (the high efficiency ones) 128 steps is perhaps more useful.


That could be beneficial when increasing speed just approaching an up hill grade, and descending. My 111 has good coasting charicterisitics. Better than my br 216, also a 3 pole delta loc. My other remaing two older ones are the br 81, and 120 Teun Hoks art series. Most are digital, and 4 MFX, 2 are mfx+
Offline Burqueno  
#30 Posted : 04 April 2021 00:57:46(UTC)
Burqueno

United States   
Joined: 25/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: New Mexico, Albuquerque
I set them both to 50-60-70 for min and 240 max and tried them out, 60 was the magic minimum number for the Br 221, 55 for the T-18. Seems counterintuitive to increase the min speed, but it works with the AC engines !
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Offline kfish2  
#31 Posted : 04 April 2021 03:27:41(UTC)
kfish2

United States   
Joined: 28/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Colorado, Denver
I thought the same thing, that raising the minimum speed was counter intuitive to what I needed to do. Later, I concluded that this CV is really something like "how much voltage to send for speed step-1". If your loco will run with what ever 40 might mean, or even 30, then you can set it to that and it will be the lowest controlled speed. For most of my AC engines, they seem to require higher numbers like 55, 60, or even 65, and then they come to life at step-1.

The do not necessarily run "slow" at this step, but it is the slowest speed at which they will reliably run. I have a few locomotives (with c80s) I have not yet converted that have 14 speed steps, and will not start running until step 6, and then at 12 they are already running too fast to be realistic or safe. SO, I am left with 5 or 6 usable steps. Perhaps if I did a better job of cleaning and lubricating the engine, it might work at something lower than 6. Swapping a c80 for one of these 60906 is not a difficult task, and it gives you this nice ability to fix the low-speed, and limit the top speed.

Edited by user 05 April 2021 20:02:31(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline bph  
#32 Posted : 09 April 2021 23:42:13(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 326
Originally Posted by: kfish2 Go to Quoted Post
I thought the same thing, that raising the minimum speed was counter intuitive to what I needed to do. Later, I concluded that this CV is really something like "how much voltage to send for speed step-1". If your loco will run with what ever 40 might mean, or even 30, then you can set it to that and it will be the lowest controlled speed. For most of my AC engines, they seem to require higher numbers like 55, 60, or even 65, and then they come to life at step-1.


with the 60906 is not that simple with the speed and voltage. It uses variable frequency control.
I measured with the following CV settings, start speed set at 10, and full speed set to 255. (the locomotive actually moves, with start speed set at 10, and CS3 speed control on 1)
Start voltage at 10,7 VAC and 85,7 Hz and 0,3 VDC
Full speed voltage at 8 VAC and 3,25 kHz and 1,7 VDC

It's interesting to observe that the voltage readings drop slightly as the frequency increase from 85,7 Hz to 3,25 kHz.
The voltage also drops when AC and DC are measured together 11V-8,2V, AC+DC is the measure mode I use to measure/check track voltage (19,1v).

If I apply a 1kHz cutoff filter on the AC measurement, the start voltage reading is then 8,6 VAC and max is 4,3 VAC.

The readings are from a Fluke true RMS meter.
These readings are just for information. My knowledge in this area is quite limited. And an Oscilloscope would probably provide a better picture.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by bph
Offline kfish2  
#33 Posted : 10 April 2021 00:51:06(UTC)
kfish2

United States   
Joined: 28/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Colorado, Denver
Thats very interesting. Thanks for sharing the observations. I never thought about frequency. For DC trains, Pulse Width Modulation is used like that. I guess it makes sense on the AC side too, so those numbers you set in the minimum speed cv are indexes into some kind of table that has frequency and voltage values. I also helps explain why experimentation is maybe the only way to find that correct value.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by kfish2
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