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Offline applor  
#1 Posted : 15 January 2019 23:22:36(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Hello,

So I ran into a problem with my Marklin BR89.7 (T3) getting stuck on a turnout with slight elevation. I suspect my Glaskasten will have the same problem.

T3.JPG


With testing I have found the T3 can only pull 2 thunderboxes before losing all traction and I need it to pull 4 wagons.

The cause of the traction problem was rather straight forward - the model only has 1 traction tire which is on the side of the turnout blade.
Since the turnout blade tapers off (it is not full height of the rails) then the traction tire loses its contact.

Frustrating, this model has 3 axles and could have used 2 traction tires - and indeed the Marklin description incorrectly states this: ' 3 axles powered. Traction tires. '

I have read on Stummis about T3 traction problems and their solutions.
https://translate.google...t%3D8402&prev=search
https://translate.google...%3D25455&prev=search

For my situation, I have these options:

1) exclude this locomotive from using the route with the switch at turnout, since set straight there is no problem (since the traction tyre is touching the outer rail and not a blade)

2) source the 'C' axle as a spare part and install it on either the B or A axles so that it has 2 traction tyres.

3) machine the 'C' axle opposite wheel to provide a groove and install a second traction tyre


Option 1 is not ideal. Option 2 I think is not possible as no one has the spare part (Treibradsatz Achse C 229 418) in stock
This leave Option 3 as being the best choice at the moment depending on a machine shop and price.
Stummis also spoke about some tweaks (reduce slider force, add weight, add tape) but I doubt these changes will improve traction enough.

Though I wonder if anyone has machined a wheel to add a traction tyre before?
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 15 January 2019 23:33:48(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post

Though I wonder if anyone has machined a wheel to add a traction tyre before?


I believe Jacques has in his previous incarnation as Dr Marklin.

Offline mbarreto  
#3 Posted : 15 January 2019 23:39:57(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,257

I have a Glaskasten for long and it has really poor traction. Very limited, and I never use more than 3 caoches with 2 axles each.
As it comes out of the box, I don't think it is anything close to a climbing machine...


Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline applor  
#4 Posted : 15 January 2019 23:44:38(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post

I have a Glaskasten for long and it has really poor traction. Very limited, and I never use more than 3 caoches with 2 axles each.
As it comes out of the box, I don't think it is anything close to a climbing machine...




Well my Glaskasten only has 3 cars to pull and tends to do OK (I have more problems with power loss on T3 and glaskasten than traction) but I would say if a second traction tyre could be added it would be fine but may cause more problems with power.
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
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Offline applor  
#5 Posted : 16 January 2019 01:55:29(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Another alternative is the 'Bullfrog Snot' mentioned in this thread if its still available/valid:

https://www.marklin-user...o-replace-traction-tyres
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
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Offline river6109  
#6 Posted : 16 January 2019 02:58:23(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Eric, what I have done on most locos dded a rubber tyre wheel to the loco but they aren't cheap for instance to add 1 rubber tyre wheel to my Traxx locos cost me Euro 30.00 s I need 2 its costing me Euro 60.00 this is almost as much the loco cost me. (rip off). back to solution. as you only need 1 purchase a an ale with 1 rubber tyre, remove the wheel with the rubber tyre and with the current axle remove the wheel without the rubber tyre., of course putting them back on again ( I do it with a large pair of adjustable pliers = not recommended for the novice). I find it if you put your wheel straight onto the axle and press it in making sure its at the right angle you shouldn't have any problems especially when the pair of adjustable pliers are at the same width as the axle., if you know what I mean.
Keep in mind most professional repariers wouldn't recommend my method.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline applor  
#7 Posted : 16 January 2019 05:15:07(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Hi John,

Thanks for your suggestion, though I think given the cost that it would be cheaper to get the wheels machined.
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
Offline applor  
#8 Posted : 16 January 2019 21:50:54(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I did some testing last night to determine whether the power drops with these locos on my K track switch was pickup or earth.

I was slightly surprised but yet again the problem turned out to be the pickup shoe contact, rather than the wheel earth (despite not having many wheels)

In fact the problem turned out to be similar to what I posted here:
https://www.marklin-user...it-on-slender-K-switches

Except that instead of short circuiting, it was just not making adequate contact on the DKW at the mid way point because of the hole.

edit: found the schliefer spare part and found straight away stummis have also experienced this problem:
https://www.stummiforum.de/viewtopic.php?t=78366
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
Offline applor  
#9 Posted : 29 January 2019 22:37:15(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Well I do believe I can work around the traction issue by raw speed which I can do in rocrail and its in a hidden area so that should work - need to test.

More pressing however is it loses earth connection when going straight through my K DKW.

I don't really have a way around that issue, short of installing a power pack.

Is there any pack power or suitable way to install a capacitor with this Marklin MFX decoder?

Otherwise I could replace the decoder with ESU so that I can use a powerpack, but that's more cost again Sad
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
Offline kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 29 January 2019 22:43:57(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
Well I do believe I can work around the traction issue by raw speed which I can do in rocrail and its in a hidden area so that should work - need to test.

More pressing however is it loses earth connection when going straight through my K DKW.

I don't really have a way around that issue, short of installing a power pack.

Is there any pack power or suitable way to install a capacitor with this Marklin MFX decoder?

Otherwise I could replace the decoder with ESU so that I can use a powerpack, but that's more cost again Sad


Use a Marklin power pack when it comes out? I think they should be shipping now.

But is there room in a T3?

Offline Nigel Packer  
#11 Posted : 30 January 2019 00:27:22(UTC)
Nigel Packer

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 682
Location: Cheshire, UK
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post


Use a Marklin power pack when it comes out? I think they should be shipping now.

But is there room in a T3?




I have a batch of the Märklin power packs, and they should indeed help.

However, they will work only with mSD3 or mLD3 upgrade Decoders that have the circuit board with them (eg 60975, etc). The power pack plugs into the SUSI socket on the board, not directly onto the decoder.

Nigel
Märklin collector since age 5.
H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
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Offline applor  
#12 Posted : 30 January 2019 04:47:09(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Reading this thread:

http://www.sbs4dcc.com/t...nd52400v35keepalive.html

You can easily wire a pair of caps to provide keep alive for loksound 3.5 decoders.

I need to determine the make of the decoder in the T3 (it may be an ESU decoder) or if its a Marklin OEM then determine if I can wire in some caps just like the LS 3.5 decoders.

As for room, yes that won't be easy but I read someone who installed an ESU decoder managed to fit it in.

I also don't need 3 seconds power. You really only need half a second, maybe 1 second.
That means I can use smaller capacity caps and use high density gold caps means I am sure I will be able to fit something in.

I then need to do the same for my Glaskasten. Space will be tight there too but if they can fit a speaker in there on the newer model...

edit: according to the below thread on Stummis (post 8), my BR89.7 from set 26555 also has ESU decoder
https://stummiforum.de/viewtopic.php?t=58588
Hopefully when I open it the pads required will be the same.
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
Offline costing  
#13 Posted : 30 January 2019 07:15:46(UTC)
costing

Switzerland   
Joined: 20/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 157
Location: Geneve, Geneva
There is a decoder-independent method of adding keep-alive capacitors. First locate the rectified current pins. In the 21pin of Marklin these are pins 20 (GND) and 12 (Vcc) respectively.

You can solder directly to the decoder pins (ugly) or search on the motherboard for pads that are connected to them, this depends on the model but there should be at least one of each. Connecting the keep alive to the motherboard makes this feature independent of the decoder and you can replace the decoder or very easy take it out for programming or whatever without pulling the caps with you.

The circuit is a very simple one, you need just a diode and a resistor in series with the largest cap that fits your loco. See one example in the sbs4dcc link from applor above (ESU manuals have a very good section on this). Use the largest 25V capacitor that fits your loco.

Cheers,

.costin
JMRI on RPi & DCC++ / C-track / Marklin, Roco, ESU, Bemo locos / Christmas car collector
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