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Offline Drongo  
#1 Posted : 27 October 2010 08:44:53(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,232
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Everyone,

I'm looking for a video that will show how to replace the traction tyres on a steam loco. I've read the (poor) instructions, however, I don't want to do any damage to the mechanisms. When it comes to these types of delicate operations, my hands turn to 5 thumbs. Crying

Can anyone help?

Thanks in advance, Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Offline river6109  
#2 Posted : 27 October 2010 09:38:14(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,770
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Greg,
With any handy work one can assume a certain amount of technical knowledge is needed.

there are tools which can unscrew the little bolts or you can use a pair of pliers, (I personally don't recommend).
By unscrewing the bolt on the wheel which houses the rubber tyre you will be able to replace the rubber tyre by using a very small flat screwdriver and lift the rubber tyre out of the recess.
When replacing the Rubber tyre make sure the rubber tyre is evenly p[laced back into the recess.

there are locos (dependent on its catalogue number) which have fixed axles or some may have removable axles.
Removable axles can, when removed, cause the gears & rods to change and result in a malfunction.
Either have an other identical loco handy to see the arrangements of the rods & gears or do one side at the time.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Drongo  
#3 Posted : 27 October 2010 10:58:31(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,232
Location: Sydney, NSW
Thanks John.
I've ordered a set of Nut Drivers so that I have the correct tool to remove the hex nuts - at least this eliminates some of the risk. They'll arrive in about a week and then I'll give it a go. I guess it's like many other situations, you're nervous with the first attempt and after that you learn to relax.
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Offline supermoee  
#4 Posted : 27 October 2010 11:37:45(UTC)
supermoee

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 534
Hello Greg,

why poor instruction??

In the picture you have everything you should know. Disassemble the nuts (with the correct tool), replace the traction tires by using a pair of tweezers, assemble the mechanism and the nuts again.

For what do you need a video?

rgds

Stephan
Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 27 October 2010 12:03:30(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,321
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Greg!
youngagain wrote:
I'm looking for a video that will show how to replace the traction tyres on a steam loco.

If you're looking for specific advise, please name scale, manufacturer, and ref. number (I presume this question relates to H0 scale and should have been asked in the H0 forum).

Not all Märklin H0 steamer models have screws - sometimes the mechanism is clipped on.

The steering on Märklin locos is "one piece". You unscrew it from the wheel, replace the traction tyre, then tighten the screw again.

Normally the most difficult part is replacing the traction tyre - at least with those big wheeled passenger locos where the tyre looks rather small beside it.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline drwhitl  
#6 Posted : 28 October 2010 06:52:43(UTC)
drwhitl


Joined: 12/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 98
Location: Auckland,
youngagain wrote:
Thanks John.
I've ordered a set of Nut Drivers so that I have the correct tool to remove the hex nuts - at least this eliminates some of the risk. They'll arrive in about a week and then I'll give it a go. I guess it's like many other situations, you're nervous with the first attempt and after that you learn to relax.



When you tighten up the hex screws after replacing the tyres, prevent the mechanism from turning by holding on to the wheel that you're tightening. Don't be tempted to hold on to its opposite number on the same axle - this can cause wheel slip on the axle and you'll finish up with loose wheels on the axle and the crank pins all out of sync. Bad news.

cheers
Dennis
Offline old toot  
#7 Posted : 28 October 2010 11:22:10(UTC)
old toot

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 498
Location: christchurch, canterbury
HI GUYS
all the above is relevant the marklin 70900 tool set has all the hex sets you will need to do this job
i will talk to dion about the idea of a video on how to do it as he has my camera at present and could
put a short one together and post it on our website for all to see
I do find a standard sewing pin is very handy in taking off the old ones with its sharp and fine tip to get
under the edge of a worn tyre without damage to the wheel. I also when putting on slip the tyre in on the
bottom under side and hold it with my finger at that point and then use the pin again to draw the new tyre
over the top and slip it into the groove, and then the other peices back and the screws back in and don't
over tigthen,good and firm but not like a car wrench
have fun as the rubber hits the road
old toot
were we pickit, packit and postit
Offline Ranjit  
#8 Posted : 29 October 2010 07:56:33(UTC)
Ranjit


Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC)
Posts: 3,021
Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA
Hi Greg,

Here are some detailed instruction on how to change traction tyres.

1) Make sure you got a place to put your loco gently on a piece of cloth (smooth cotton) or something like a locomotive cradle
2) Put (very) carefully the loco on one of it's sides, so the wheel with the broken traction tire is facing up
3) Unscrew the bolt on the wheel you want to replace a traction tire. Make sure you don't loose this bolt. Keep in mind the positioning of the running gears. Be very gentle with the running gears parts. Do not rotate the wheel on the axle as the rod's connection-points should be kept in one line.
4) Put the new traction tire on the wheel. In case of having a 70900 toolset, use the pair of tweezers from this set. The easiest way to do so is, put first the tyre on the most difficult part to reach, then use the tweezers to stretch the tyre over the rest of the wheel. Doing so be careful that the tyre doesn't get damaged during using the tweezers.

Important remark: During pulling/stretching the tyre over the wheel, keep in mind and try to avoid in all circumstances that the tyre should NOT get twisted around the wheel. I got that the first time and it's very difficult to remove the tyre afterwards, trying not to damage it...

5) Double check the new changed tyre, does it fit on all spots of the wheel smoothly? No twisted points? If yes, be very careful during removing the tyre try to avoid damaging the tyre (as the tweezers might easily damage a tyre by using it if it's not used gently). A lot of patience is required to remove the tyre gently. Once done, take a deep breath and continue at point 4 again.
6) Once the tyre has been changed successfully the bolt should be put back in place (together with the running gears parts of course). Make sure to secure the bolt but just in a gentle way, don't force to over tighten it.
7) Check out the running gears. It should not be changed and should be able to run smoothly as it (should) did before.
8) Put the locomotive back on the track (or on a test track) and check
the driving characteristics of the loco, should be alright with the new traction tire, especially check the running gears as well.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,
Ranjit

Modelling in HO Scale - Era III & IV. K+M Track, Analogue + Digital
_____________________________________________________________________________

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"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
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"If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney
Offline nelson77  
#9 Posted : 30 October 2010 01:34:31(UTC)
nelson77


Joined: 24/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 154
Location: Westminster, Md
Just a quick question. If a tire falls off one of the wheels, can you put it back on or should it be replaced with a new one.

Thanks
Nelson
USA
Offline H0  
#10 Posted : 30 October 2010 01:40:03(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,321
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Nelson!
nelson77 wrote:
If a tire falls off one of the wheels, can you put it back on or should it be replaced with a new one.

You can put it back on.

But if it slipped off because it's oily or worn and stretched then it'll slip off again. So sooner or later you'll have to replace it.

If it slipped off because the loco accidentally pushed against a bumper or another loco then it may stay in place for a long time.

So sometimes it's worth one try to put it back on.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline river6109  
#11 Posted : 30 October 2010 03:34:00(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,770
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Nelson,
As Tom explained you could do this but also make sure the tire is not freely moving

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Drongo  
#12 Posted : 04 November 2010 11:15:06(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,232
Location: Sydney, NSW
Thanks fellas for the help, tips & hints. I've ordered a set of hex drivers and they should arrive in a few days - with the advice you have all given me, I feel much more confident in giving it a go. I know some of you might think that it's a straight forward procedure, however, when you hands work like mine, anything can happen.

Again, thanks for the detail help. BigGrin

Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Offline nevw  
#13 Posted : 04 November 2010 11:23:35(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
youngagain wrote:
Thanks fellas for the help, tips & hints. I've ordered a set of hex drivers and they should arrive in a few days - with the advice you have all given me, I feel much more confident in giving it a go. I know some of you might think that it's a straight forward procedure, however, when you hands work like mine, anything can happen.

Again, thanks for the detail help. BigGrin

Greg

Greg, with me sometimes it is a piece of cake and the tyre is on in seconds , other times it can take 10 minutes and 2 tyres.

Nev
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline stenscience  
#14 Posted : 04 November 2010 18:41:05(UTC)
stenscience


Joined: 18/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 789
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico
I don't know if this is worthwhile, but I thought I would mention an alternative solution.There is a product called "Bullfrog Snot" that got a decent review in Model Railroader (I think).It is a liquid plastic that you brush on the wheels instead of using traction tires.Since it is mainly used here for DC layouts, I presume it would work, maybe better, on M trains. This would save the effort and complexity of dissasembling part of the steam loco that is hard to do. I will point out that I have not used it myself;just heard good things about it.I know you can get it in the US and in the UK online.
Offline Jay  
#15 Posted : 04 November 2010 20:52:03(UTC)
Jay

South Africa   
Joined: 01/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 303
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Hello All

INSTRUCTIONS TO FIT NEW TRACTION TYRES

1. To pluck up courage to undertake such a delicate task, pour half a glass of whisky/moonshine or your favourite alcoholic beverage. Take a large gulp and allow 10 minutes to take effect.
2. Now that you have the courage, gently grab the loco and place on a firm surface.
3. At this point you may have another sip of courage.
4. Using the appropriate wrench over the bolt you now bash it with a heavy hammer preferably in an anticlockwise direction unless the thread is clockwise to loosen.
5. Now that you have lost the bolt you may finish your glass in a self-congratulatory fashion.
6. Pour another glass of your tipple and take another sip.
7. Put the wheel on the traction tyre, using the tweezers from the 70900 toolset, squeeze the wheel into the tyre being careful not to damage the tweezers.
8. Check that it is a double when you pour you next drink. Do not add a twist. If you have damaged the tyres, a lot of patients are required to gently remove the wheel. Once again take a deep gulp and continue.
9. By now you should have successfully separated the different parts. You can now reward yourself with another stiff shot.
10. This is the tricky bit. You put the loco and all the parts together gently into a bag and give to the FD to mail to old toots (DONE).LOL

Jay
Offline hemau  
#16 Posted : 04 November 2010 21:47:18(UTC)
hemau


Joined: 09/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 589
Location: The Netherlands
Jay wrote:

Hello All

INSTRUCTIONS TO FIT NEW TRACTION TYRES

1. To pluck up courage to undertake such a delicate task, pour half a glass of whisky/moonshine or your favourite alcoholic beverage. Take a large gulp and allow 10 minutes to take effect.
2. Now that you have the courage, gently grab the loco and place on a firm surface.
3. At this point you may have another sip of courage.
4. Using the appropriate wrench over the bolt you now bash it with a heavy hammer preferably in an anticlockwise direction unless the thread is clockwise to loosen.
5. Now that you have lost the bolt you may finish your glass in a self-congratulatory fashion.
6. Pour another glass of your tipple and take another sip.
7. Put the wheel on the traction tyre, using the tweezers from the 70900 toolset, squeeze the wheel into the tyre being careful not to damage the tweezers.
8. Check that it is a double when you pour you next drink. Do not add a twist. If you have damaged the tyres, a lot of patients are required to gently remove the wheel. Once again take a deep gulp and continue.
9. By now you should have successfully separated the different parts. You can now reward yourself with another stiff shot.
10. This is the tricky bit. You put the loco and all the parts together gently into a bag and give to the FD to mail to old toots (DONE).LOL

Jay

I suggest you cut the traction tyre with a pair of sciccors and glue it back on the wheelBigGrin BigGrin
Then you don't need to use the pliers or loosen the bolts clockwise!!Woot Woot
C and M track; CS1R and 2 MS
Offline Webmaster  
#17 Posted : 04 November 2010 23:12:23(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,165
A recommended item is the Märklin 70900 tool set, which has the necessary nut drivers to take off the bolts that hold the valve gear to the wheels.

You can of course also find cheap hobby sets with the necessary nut driver sizes in hardware/hobby stores if you are lucky.
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline rschaffr  
#18 Posted : 05 November 2010 04:58:39(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,180
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
stenscience wrote:
I don't know if this is worthwhile, but I thought I would mention an alternative solution.There is a product called "Bullfrog Snot" that got a decent review in Model Railroader (I think).It is a liquid plastic that you brush on the wheels instead of using traction tires.Since it is mainly used here for DC layouts, I presume it would work, maybe better, on M trains. This would save the effort and complexity of disassembling part of the steam loco that is hard to do. I will point out that I have not used it myself;just heard good things about it.I know you can get it in the US and in the UK online.


I use Bullfrog Snot quite a bit. It solved a traction problem I had on a Z-guage set and I used it to increase the traction wheel count on my Scheinenbus. Great stuff! You just have to power the lok with it upside down and run the wheels at a medium rate while you apply it with a toothpick and let it dry. I have not, however, had good luck applying it to traction tires. My ICE-1 (3770) needed new tires and I ordered them. I decided to try this in the meantime and for some reason it did not work well. It does work well on steel, whoever.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline Drongo  
#19 Posted : 05 November 2010 11:49:55(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,232
Location: Sydney, NSW
The tool set arrived today and I gave it a shot. Jay, you were spot on with your description. BigGrin I took it very slowly and patiently and after 25 attempts I finally succeeded - Whacko !!!Smile Smile . Thanks Jay for the tips and now I'm going to have that drink. Flapper
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Offline Ranjit  
#20 Posted : 05 November 2010 13:25:43(UTC)
Ranjit


Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC)
Posts: 3,021
Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA
I am glad you have the hang of replacing traction tyres, Greg! Enjoy your drink!

Cheers,
Ranjit
Modelling in HO Scale - Era III & IV. K+M Track, Analogue + Digital
_____________________________________________________________________________

#Get Vaccinated
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come" - Victor Marie Hugo
"If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney
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