You have been a member since:: 03/06/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,252 Location: Sydney, NSW
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My measurement car - Marklin 49960 has recently been giving me incorrect measurements. I'm only using the car to measure the length of tracks. I conducted a test program and in summary I came up with these results.
All the distances were short by 86 to 87% e.g. 80cm measured by a tape, showed 69cm on the car; and 110cm showed 96cm on the car.
Does anyone know why this is occurring and is there a solution?
Regards Greg |
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
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Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,593 Location: Australia
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I will try it on mine tomorrow and we can compare results. |
Adrian Australia flag by abFlags.com |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,443 Location: DE-NW
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Hi, Greg! Originally Posted by: Drongo  Does anyone know why this is occurring and is there a solution? Just a wild guess: maybe your measurement car has acquired "traction tyres" (accumulated dirt on the wheels) and needs some TLC and wheel cleaning. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
 1 user liked this useful post by H0
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Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,319 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
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Originally Posted by: Drongo  My measurement car - Marklin 49960 has recently been giving me incorrect measurements. I'm only using the car to measure the length of tracks. I conducted a test program and in summary I came up with these results.
All the distances were short by 86 to 87% e.g. 80cm measured by a tape, showed 69cm on the car; and 110cm showed 96cm on the car.
Does anyone know why this is occurring and is there a solution?
Regards Greg The wagon is measuring distance traveled by the basic technique of dead-reconing. It is likely (as I don't have one) relying on counting rotation of a single wheel of the cart to determine the distance traveled. This suffers from a common problem - wheel slippage. That is the linear forward motion of the car isn't consistently translated into rotational movement on the measuring wheel. Since the car is under reporting the distance traveled, the wheel isn't turning as much as it should be - either its not getting full traction on the rails, sticking for some reason, or there could be an issue with the way the internal electronics read the rotation from that wheel. The computation of the distance traveled works like in cars - a wheel rotation is equal to distance of the circumference of the wheel. If the circumference used in the computation isn't the circumference of the wheel itself the computation would be wrong. Is the wheel that has the encoder on it to measure rotation larger than the software expects (eg a traction tire that swelled, or accumulation of gunk on the wheel has it cover more ground per revolution than expected, meaning for a distance traveled the wheel actually rotates around less?)( |
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 3 users liked this useful post by Minok
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You have been a member since:: 03/06/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,252 Location: Sydney, NSW
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Originally Posted by: H0  Hi, Greg! Originally Posted by: Drongo  Does anyone know why this is occurring and is there a solution? Just a wild guess: maybe your measurement car has acquired "traction tyres" (accumulated dirt on the wheels) and needs some TLC and wheel cleaning. I checked the wheels and they are fairly clean. Does anyone know how the car picks up the measurement - there's a "thingy" on the axle of one wheel that has 4 flat surfaces - it rotates and must send some signal to a device that records the distance. I borrowed a car from a friend and he's is in almost new condition and I did the same test with the same results. Does this mean ALL the cars are faulty ???!!!! |
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
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 1 user liked this useful post by Drongo
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Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,593 Location: Australia
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Originally Posted by: Drongo  It could be your tape measure.. These things are not meant to be precision instruments.. Anyway, I will check mine tomorrow sometime - too busy today.. |
Adrian Australia flag by abFlags.com |
 1 user liked this useful post by xxup
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Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,319 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
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Originally Posted by: Drongo  Originally Posted by: H0  Hi, Greg! Originally Posted by: Drongo  Does anyone know why this is occurring and is there a solution? Just a wild guess: maybe your measurement car has acquired "traction tyres" (accumulated dirt on the wheels) and needs some TLC and wheel cleaning. I checked the wheels and they are fairly clean. Does anyone know how the car picks up the measurement - there's a "thingy" on the axle of one wheel that has 4 flat surfaces - it rotates and must send some signal to a device that records the distance. I borrowed a car from a friend and he's is in almost new condition and I did the same test with the same results. Does this mean ALL the cars are faulty ???!!!! I suspect there is an optical or magnetic sensor that detects the rotation of that 4-sided feature of the one wheel. So it sounds like the wheel can detect approximately every 1/4 or 1/2 rotation of a wheel. Thus its not very accurate at very short distance. Does the car have a setting capability to calibrate the sensor system? I'd think with metal wheels they would be closer than being off by 14% but maybe that was within the promised accuracy of the cars? |
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Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,593 Location: Australia
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As promised.. Measured 0.64m and actual travel was 0.65m.. Good enough for me.. |
Adrian Australia flag by abFlags.com |
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You have been a member since:: 03/06/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,252 Location: Sydney, NSW
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Originally Posted by: xxup  As promised.. Measured 0.64m and actual travel was 0.65m.. Good enough for me.. Thanks Adrian. How did you measure the distance? The way I measured the distances was to set the front of the wagon at the beginning of the tape measure and move the wagon to say 90cm to the front of the wagon and check the readout. It's strange that the 2 wagons I tested read identically and yours read correctly. Minok suggested to see if there was a calibration setting, however, there's nothing in the manual to suggest this. Adrian, please have a look at the wheel under the wagon that has the 4 flat sections - does each section have a silvery foil on it? Mine has the foil damaged on 2 of the sections - this might be the problem. Regards Greg |
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
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Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,593 Location: Australia
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Greg,
I will have a look later this afternoon. I am still in recovery mode from Miss17's birthday party yesterday.
Cheers, Adrian |
Adrian Australia flag by abFlags.com |
 2 users liked this useful post by xxup
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Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC) Posts: 2,261 Location: Hobart, Australia
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Originally Posted by: xxup  Greg,
I will have a look later this afternoon. I am still in recovery mode from Miss17's birthday party yesterday.
Cheers, Adrian But you were hiding in the train room !! Best wishes for a speedy recovery! Regards, Philip
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 1 user liked this useful post by PJMärklin
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Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,593 Location: Australia
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Originally Posted by: PJMärklin  I was, but that was after her mother and I spent all morning cleaning the house, while the party princess spent two hours in the bathroom.. And of course, I missed by afternoon nap.. |
Adrian Australia flag by abFlags.com |
 1 user liked this useful post by xxup
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Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,593 Location: Australia
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Here is a photo of my 49960 sensor. All four are dull silver in colour.  |
Adrian Australia flag by abFlags.com |
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You have been a member since:: 03/06/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,252 Location: Sydney, NSW
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Thanks again Adrian. Mine has only 1 with the dull silver foil - the other 3 don't. Now the question - what is this foil, how do I obtain it and how to I apply it ? Anyone with suggestions, please. Regards Greg |
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
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Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,593 Location: Australia
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To be honest it looks like solder. One of the other plates sees to have a wire embedded.
Can you just buy the part? |
Adrian Australia flag by abFlags.com |
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You have been a member since:: 03/06/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,252 Location: Sydney, NSW
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Originally Posted by: xxup  To be honest it looks like solder. One of the other plates sees to have a wire embedded.
Can you just buy the part? It's a pretty old product - I think it was released in 2000 and spare parts might be a problem. I looked in the manual and there are no spare parts shown, therefore I would be able to specify the part number. Does anyone know how this part works ? |
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,470 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: Drongo  Originally Posted by: xxup  To be honest it looks like solder. One of the other plates sees to have a wire embedded.
Can you just buy the part? It's a pretty old product - I think it was released in 2000 and spare parts might be a problem. I looked in the manual and there are no spare parts shown, therefore I would be able to specify the part number. Does anyone know how this part works ? There will be a reflective opto-sensor above the wheel, and as each of these foils go past the electronics will register a count. To replace the pieces of foil, I would look at using cooking foil, and gluing it on with either double sided sellotape or cynoacrylite 'instant glue'. Either way will be a messy and fiddly job, but needs must. Actually thinking about the application process, I think I would wind one piece of foil around the axle with glue under it, then after the glue has set use a scalpel, and slice along the edges of the flat pieces then peel off the bits you don't want. Of course, the way Marklin will have done it is to use foil tape that already has glue on one side.
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 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
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You have been a member since:: 03/06/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,252 Location: Sydney, NSW
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Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan  Originally Posted by: Drongo  Originally Posted by: xxup  To be honest it looks like solder. One of the other plates sees to have a wire embedded.
Can you just buy the part? It's a pretty old product - I think it was released in 2000 and spare parts might be a problem. I looked in the manual and there are no spare parts shown, therefore I would be able to specify the part number. Does anyone know how this part works ? There will be a reflective opto-sensor above the wheel, and as each of these foils go past the electronics will register a count. To replace the pieces of foil, I would look at using cooking foil, and gluing it on with either double sided sellotape or cynoacrylite 'instant glue'. Either way will be a messy and fiddly job, but needs must. Actually thinking about the application process, I think I would wind one piece of foil around the axle with glue under it, then after the glue has set use a scalpel, and slice along the edges of the flat pieces then peel off the bits you don't want. Of course, the way Marklin will have done it is to use foil tape that already has glue on one side. Thanks KiwiAlan - I've googled silver foil and found that JayCars sell it in 50metre rolls for about $12.00 - it's 0.04 mm thick x 25mm wide with adhesive on one side. I'm off to the store to get some and I hope it does the trick. Regards Greg |
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
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Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 945 Location: Sydney, NSW
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Hi Greg, The three items are magnets and the silver coating is some sort of protective coating. On my measurement car there isn't any silver coating left. I have just tested mine over a 2 metre distance and the results on the readout is spot on. If the measurement is coming up short I would say the wheel isn't rotating enough and you are getting the wheel to slide on the track. Check the axle lubrication and also that the ground collector spring hasn't too much tension on the axle. PS. There are only 3 magnets. Edited by user 13 September 2016 02:56:59(UTC)
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Ross
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You have been a member since:: 03/06/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,252 Location: Sydney, NSW
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Originally Posted by: Ross  Hi Greg,
The four items are magnets and the silver coating is some sort of protective coating.
On my measurement car there isn't any silver coating left.
I have just tested mine over a 2 metre distance and the results on the readout is spot on.
If the measurement is coming up short I would say the wheel isn't rotating enough and you are getting the wheel to slide on the track.
Check the axle lubrication and also that the ground collector spring hasn't too much tension on the axle.
Hi Ross, I checked the wheel movement and it's ok and the spring is good. I have 2 of these cars and both give me the same incorrect lengths. Also, the measurements are consistent, however, incorrect, so the wheel must be rotation correctly. Any other thoughts? Regards Greg |
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Originally Posted by: Drongo  All the distances were short by 86 to 87% e.g. 80cm measured by a tape, showed 69cm on the car; and 110cm showed 96cm on the car.
You know, that You cab switch between measuring real length (in cm) or converted to Model length (in Kilometer). When You say, the value is 69cm instead of 80cm and the difference is always around 87%, You may switch to the other measurement?  https://www.marklin-user...sion-to-DCC-Decoder.aspxDistance Measure
F1 = ON F2 = OFF F3 = OFF F4 = OFF Measure in km (Vorbild)  F1 = ON F2 = OFF F3 = ON F4 = OFF Measure in m (Modell)  |
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 1 user liked this useful post by Moritz-BR365
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Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,689 Location: United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by: Drongo 
80cm measured by a tape, showed 69cm on the car; and 110cm showed 96cm on the car.
Regards Greg
Mine have 49960 show under 101cm on 100cm tape as I got new parts wheels with sensor/magnet from NL dealer six years ago but sadly out of business. I think part number 211488 |
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy. |
 1 user liked this useful post by steventrain
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Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,593 Location: Australia
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Adrian Australia flag by abFlags.com |
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Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,319 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
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Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365  Originally Posted by: Drongo  All the distances were short by 86 to 87% e.g. 80cm measured by a tape, showed 69cm on the car; and 110cm showed 96cm on the car.
You know, that You cab switch between measuring real length (in cm) or converted to Model length (in Kilometer). When You say, the value is 69cm instead of 80cm and the difference is always around 87%, You may switch to the other measurement? This may be the solution, right? From what you described you were getting a reading that was 86% of the measured distance. H0 scale is 1:87.0857142. 100cm traveled is 87.08m traveled at 1:1 scale..... So the wheel encoder could be magnetic or optical rotation sensing ... (don't have one of the cars), but the setting of what the display shows... seems like a prime candidate. |
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Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,593 Location: Australia
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BTW my dealer reports that the part is still available from Marklin - I have ordered two of them. |
Adrian Australia flag by abFlags.com |
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Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 945 Location: Sydney, NSW
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Hi Greg, I corrected my count of the magnets = 3 As Minok mentioned, F1 + F3 on = m. F4 on is the freeze reading and F4 off is the reset to zero F1 on only = km Marklin refer to the 'm' setting as model and 'km' as prototype Using a large distance of 2 metre I measure 2.000 on the readout and if I switch to km it shows 0.173 over the 2 metre distance. If you lay the car on its roof and apply track power to the car with clips then position one of the magnets to be facing up. Next set F1 + F3 + F4 on. Now switch F4 off then rotate the wheel so the original magnet returns to the upward position the readout will/should show 3. If you do a speed test using a well profiled loco in TC the readout on the car should show the same km/h. With out seeing the car I can't think of any further tests at the moment. Originally Posted by: Drongo  Hi Ross,
I checked the wheel movement and it's ok and the spring is good. I have 2 of these cars and both give me the same incorrect lengths. Also, the measurements are consistent, however, incorrect, so the wheel must be rotation correctly.
Any other thoughts?
Regards Greg
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Ross
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 1 user liked this useful post by Ross
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You have been a member since:: 03/06/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,252 Location: Sydney, NSW
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Hi Fellas, I sat down, took a deep breath and read the manual. Funny what you learn when you carefully read the manual. This time I had F1 & F3 turned on and I got the correct reading. Hence the name DRONGO  (Google has a good definition for this Australian slang word) Thanks for all your help, regards Greg |
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
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 2 users liked this useful post by Drongo
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Originally Posted by: Drongo  I sat down, took a deep breath and read the manual. Funny what you learn when you carefully read the manual. This time I had F1 & F3 turned on and I got the correct reading.
Hi Greg, like I supposed, as You wrote it's exactly 87% less then the real measurement Regards, Moritz |
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Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 945 Location: Sydney, NSW
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Hi Greg, Please read 49960 and 49961 IconsI thought I had supplied the measurement car '*.yrl" file to you but if I haven't you will be able to download it from the article. It explains how I set up the controls for the measurement cars to be used with TrainController. Originally Posted by: Drongo  Hi Fellas, I sat down, took a deep breath and read the manual. Funny what you learn when you carefully read the manual. This time I had F1 & F3 turned on and I got the correct reading. Hence the name DRONGO  (Google has a good definition for this Australian slang word) Thanks for all your help, regards Greg Edited by user 01 January 2025 05:40:58(UTC)
| Reason: Link corrected 01-01-2025 |
Ross
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Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC) Posts: 729 Location: England, Suffolk
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resurrecting this old post :-)
From the Marklin website I downloaded the booklet of this coach but it says that the only things that can be controlled digitally are the pantograhps. In this post you folks mention that the 49960 can measure track lenght, assuming it is set correctly, what about scale speed ? Is the user manual detailed on how configure the decoder to get the info one wants ? There is no mention of what it can be used for in the user manual. Thank you. Marco
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Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC) Posts: 729 Location: England, Suffolk
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I bought this car for £70 It is in perfect conditions but .... this is what I found out using the EcoS
1) contrary to what is written in the manual the pantograph is dead and there are no current conducting couplers. No way to check if it is at all connected due to item 5) below; 2) the address I had to set is 75, not really immediate to detect. Plus not having a motor, or otherwise a load, it can't detect the address; 3) the decoder has to be set to Motorola Fx 14 otherwise it doesn't react to any of the F buttons; 4) speed detection is a bit erratic. The speedometer car I made myself was more consitent and precise for a fracton of the price :-) 5) the instructions say that opening the carriage is 'easy'. The heck it is!!! I managed to get the two door frames off not without noticing that they do not simply pull out and that they are not inserted identically in the holes. Once they are out there is no way to remove the frame as you need another pair of hands and something to wedge betweeen the yellow frame and the chassis of the coach. Poor design;
Will have to check the wheel with the sensor when I have a bit more time though. Mine has 3 silvery sections, still.
All in all an object that at the time was probably expensive for a pointless return as it does today. None other than a curiosity of a bygone era, the beggining of digital trains, more or less.
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,470 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk  3) the decoder has to be set to Motorola Fx 14 otherwise it doesn't react to any of the F buttons;
This is because it is (as far as I am aware) the last item that Marklin made to use the mobile accessory address space, the same as the 4998 panorama car, the 4999 dance car, and the 2680 King Wilhelm coach lighting. Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk  4) speed detection is a bit erratic. The speedometer car I made myself was more consitent and precise for a fracton of the price :-) [/quote I suspect this is more due to not averaging the speed reading but rather display each reading taken. Using a microprocessor based system (which this coach doesn't have) would make this a more steady reading covering up the glitches. Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk  5) the instructions say that opening the carriage is 'easy'. The heck it is!!! I managed to get the two door frames off not without noticing that they do not simply pull out and that they are not inserted identically in the holes. Once they are out there is no way to remove the frame as you need another pair of hands and something to wedge betweeen the yellow frame and the chassis of the coach. Poor design;
Will have to check the wheel with the sensor when I have a bit more time though. Mine has 3 silvery sections, still.
All in all an object that at the time was probably expensive for a pointless return as it does today. None other than a curiosity of a bygone era, the beggining of digital trains, more or less.
At the time it was quite something - don't forget it is somewhere around twenty years old, and technology has moved on a heck of a lot in that time. I suspect you would find the equivalent items such as like ESU produce which have an LCD screen will show a lot more than this coach does, and with stable readings.
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 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
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