 Joined: 26/10/2015(UTC) Posts: 32 Location: USA
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It's been over decade since I ran anything and since I am liquidating my collection I have a question. To test the digital locos up to 37 series, will they run on the standard Marklin AC transformer for a quick 'run check' without harm the the digital electronics in the locos? All are HO and run the gamut from a very few older 30 series up to the 37000 and a couple 39000 items.
Any information is appreciated.
Kind regards
Ausland
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Joined: 27/08/2015(UTC) Posts: 15 Location: California, Sacramento
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yes you can test the old digital loks on a analog controller, just make sure they are not delta. delta chips will not work on on analog, they will bun up
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Joined: 26/10/2015(UTC) Posts: 32 Location: USA
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Thanks for the info, that's what I need to know. I have nothing Delta although some of the older locos were converted to digital by the previous owner.
That being said, are the Delta chips marked as such or is there a way to tell them apart from digital?
Kind regards
Ausland
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 Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,870 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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Let me step in here with a major correction!
Delta decoders are perfectly capable of running in analogue, and will not burn up! (Unless there was already something wrong with them!)
All Marklin digital or delta locomotives will run in analogue mode. Some decoders with DIP switches need to have the address set to all zeros before they will run in analogue. If you have access to the loco manual it will tell you what you need to do.
The only concern is the type of controller/transformer you use. If it is one of the newer grey or white types you have nothing to fear, but an older blue transformer can sometimes output a voltage which is too high when the reversing pulse is activated. This can sometimes fry a decoder of the newer types, so if you have an older blue type do not try to reverse the loco. You can still test whether it runs or not by turning the speed knob and you can assume that it will run in the other direction just as well. (Usually) |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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 6 users liked this useful post by RayF
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,441
Location: DE-NW
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Hi all! Good advice from Ray. Originally Posted by: ausland  To test the digital locos up to 37 series, will they run on the standard Marklin AC transformer for a quick 'run check' without harm the the digital electronics in the locos? About 12 years ago Märklin introduced decoders without DIP switches. Those are more sensitive with respect to reversing voltages. The risk should be low if all your locos have DIP switches. Some 37 series locos also require all switches to be set to off for analogue operation. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
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 Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,464 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: pietercc yes you can test the old digital loks on a analog controller, just make sure they are not delta. delta chips will not work on on analog, they will bun up Not true. There are some delta chips where you need to set the address switches to all off to run on analogue, but the delta decoder is still good to run with analogue. The reason for this is that for a period Marklin were not able to produce decoders with the automatic analogue detection due to a falling out with the holder of the patent relating to detection of analogue mode.
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Joined: 26/10/2015(UTC) Posts: 32 Location: USA
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We will find one of the later Marklin transformers for the tests. The collection does not have any power packs with it but that being said two boxes are missing and in addition to the transformers some el primo items are missing. A search is being made where they were stored and one can hope the missing boxes will be found.
I am going to ask permission of the mods to offer the primium items to fellow forum members before they go on ebay, this after I get an idea of the current value of most items. I am in US at the moment and my net access is not what I have at home, which I return to the end of this week.
Some items are in transit to Sevastopol, I lean towards the old timers for my personal running, and a couple items will be hand carried back with me. Should be interesting on arrival in Mockba.
Ausland
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 Joined: 28/03/2022(UTC) Posts: 8 Location: Melbourne VIC
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Hi all, We have an all analogue layout, but recently we purchased an old 3016 railbus loco that appears to have been converted to digital (see photo). I am new to digital Marklin locos, so I was hoping that someone could tell me if indeed the loco has been converted to digital and what sort of decode has been used?  Furthermore, which analogue transformers could I safely use to run and reverse this particular loco? (We have several analogue transformers (blue ones 6631, 37540, orange Primex, older 16VA blue ones 6077 & 278A and 1 white 32VA transformer).
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1 user liked this useful post by Piete
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Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,874 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
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I wouldn't try it with a blue transformer, had one, knew about the potential danger frying a decoder, naturally what I did switched the loco in reverse and kaputt, end of story
John |
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Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,874 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
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Originally Posted by: Piete Hi all, We have an all analogue layout, but recently we purchased an old 3016 railbus loco that appears to have been converted to digital (see photo). I am new to digital Marklin locos, so I was hoping that someone could tell me if indeed the loco has been converted to digital and what sort of decode has been used? Furthermore, which analogue transformers could I safely use to run and reverse this particular loco? (We have several analogue transformers (blue ones 6631, 37540, orange Primex, older 16VA blue ones 6077 & 278A and 1 white 32VA transformer). As mentioned above do not use any blue transformers, so far the digital conversion is concerned, yes it is fully digital, with an ESU perm. magnet and the 3 pole armature and brush plate have been kept, most probably an ESU decoder. , this decoder will give you better running characteristics at lower speed, if not you would have to change to a 5 pole high efficiency motor. John |
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 Joined: 24/06/2023(UTC) Posts: 4 Location: Attiki, Athens
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Good evening to all
I have encountered a problem a year and a half that has been spread over the past few days.
I have an analogue Marklin system since the 1960s and I have bought some digital, the first was 36850 then I got 37265.
A month later the decoder of 37265 burned, I replaced it after first making a change in the blue 6177 transformers I had (I changed the tendency to reversal from 30 volt to 24 volt), burned again so I turned it into analogue diodes (Anorthosis Bridge) , capacitor and resistance of 6 Ohm (reason for lack of board) and replaced the old transformers with a new, white, 66471.
Because I wanted two consecutive feed areas I used diodes, two and two, to drop voltage in certain parts of the system.
These days the first 36850 was burned down, it had worked with the old transformers, 6177, for 10 months and had not been burned then.
My question is the rest of the digital I have, which have not worked with the blue, will burn or not.
Any information is appreciated
Sorry for my English, it's from Google's translator
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1 user liked this useful post by billgem
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Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,881 Location: Michigan, Troy
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Newer decoders have been known to fry on old transformers. These are meant for the newer switched mode power supplies. As for digital operation, they are likely safe with a later white trafo., and a 6021 controller. M track can also present more shorts, and sparks which new decodrs don't like.
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 Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,555 Location: Paris, France
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Hi Bill
For a number of years, the Märklin loco decoders have a voltage limit (absolute maximum rating - before destruction) of 40 Volts peak
Older transformers were often designed to deliver "higher" voltages. This is normally NOT a problem EXCEPT for overvoltage on locos with electronics.
Overvoltage delivers - theorically - 24 VAC which means 33.9 V Peak (24 x 1.4141)
So with an overvoltage of 28.28 (you can measure it with a multimeter) you reach the deadly 40 V Peak
Remember you must be significantly lower than this value because mains voltage fluctuates
Sorry for the calculations.
In lemmon language, avoid using old blue Märklin transformers and measure the voltage output when a direction change (overvoltage) is triggered. It MUST BE well below 26 VAC.
Cheers
Jean |
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Joined: 24/06/2023(UTC) Posts: 4 Location: Attiki, Athens
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Thank you for the information.
I have replaced the old transformers 6177 with a new 66471, the problem is that the 36850 was now burned after a year and a half that works with 66471 and I am afraid not to burn the other digital I have not worked with 6177.
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Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,555 Location: Paris, France
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Hi Bill
The 66471 transformer is made for 230 VAC. Have you measured your mains?
The secondary voltage is directly linked to the primary voltage
So if your mains voltage is higher than 230 VAC this may result in higher seconday voltages.
Remember that voltage at mains may change depending on the time and local users activity.
My personal choice is never to let a 300€ to 600€ locomotives be jeopardized with a transformer.
Cheers
Jean |
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2 users liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
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Joined: 24/06/2023(UTC) Posts: 4 Location: Attiki, Athens
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  I know this problem with 220-230 Volt, but here the 230 is rare.
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Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC) Posts: 729 Location: England, Suffolk
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please explain? Does your country use 110V or 220-230V
But the transformer normalises the current reaching your tracks to run the trains , that's the scope of a transformer 😊
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,441
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk But the transformer normalises the current reaching your tracks to run the trains , that's the scope of a transformer 😊 A transformers transforms only, but does not normalise anything. If the transformer was made for 220/16 V, then with 230 V on the input side it will give you 16.73 V on the output side. And even with 220 V on the input side, you will get 16 V on the output side with the nominal wattage of the transformer. Without load you can get 18 V instead of the nominal 16 V at 220 V. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
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Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC) Posts: 729 Location: England, Suffolk
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normalise, transform, at the end of the day he can stick his fingers on the tracks and not get electrocuted with 110/230 😊
Was making things simple, it isn't rocket science they are model trains 👍🏻
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,441
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: billgem I know this problem with 220-230 Volt, but here the 230 is rare. Märklin transformers rated for 220 V can destroy digital decoders even if the mains voltage is 220 V. Therefore stepdown transformers 230/220 V are no solution. Measure the reversing voltage for each transformer. 28.28 V is the nominal limit, as stated by Jean. I feel better with a safety margin, so I would shy away from transformers that give more than 26 V. Note that the reversing voltage will increase if the mains voltage increases. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
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Joined: 24/06/2023(UTC) Posts: 4 Location: Attiki, Athens
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Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk please explain? Does your country use 110V or 220-230V
But the transformer normalises the current reaching your tracks to run the trains , that's the scope of a transformer 😊 220
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,441
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: billgem Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk please explain? Does your country use 110V or 220-230V
But the transformer normalises the current reaching your tracks to run the trains , that's the scope of a transformer 😊 220 The nominal mains voltage for Greece is 230 V, of course. A fluctuation of +/- 23 V is allowed, giving a range of 207 V to 253 V. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
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