I just try to be fair - according to my subjective interpretation of the situation.

If people over-emphasize the positive aspects, you will find me mentioning the negative aspects.
If people over-emphasize the negative aspects, you will find me mentioning the positive aspects.

Hi Tom,

400 workers, but how many of them work in final assembly of the products that are shipped to customers? I believe what you say about 2012, but things might be a little different now. Why do you think that this year's Big Boy is 50 euros cheaper? That's unprecedented! Assembly in Hungary saves money in general. Why does Märklin have some free space for the museum within the factory building in Göppingen now?

I said that the new owners (not the managers) were more honest than the previous ones. I don't believe a word of what Mr B., co-CEO, says. One year ago five-pole motors [edit] didn't fit into steam locomotives, but this year there will be one in the new Bavarian Br 18. I've said before that I don't trust Mr B., but I've changed my mind about the China production. They can't pull out of China because in a shrinking market they would soon have capacities and workers that they wouldn't need.

Edited by user 04 March 2015 20:56:49(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I email question to Marklin and answer from him.

I can think of many reasons not to buy from China. Has nothing to do with racism, but everything to do with democracy, human rights and militarism.

Sadly I don't always live as I preach. A lot of my wonderful Olympus m4/3 equipment is made in China. Some of the lenses are superb! So good stuff surely comes out of China.

But it makes a big difference who owns the factories and where the persons who make up the local management comes from.

I don't want my Märklin locos to be made in China! It's not rational, it's emotional. It's not a problem if parts are made in different countries, but if it's 100% made in China it's a definite no. It's just not Märklin anymore to me...

We will never agree and everyone has to make their own purchasing decisions.

Anyway, many thanks to the thread starter for posting. For me it's very important information.

/Torbjörn

Hi Tom,

I paid the same price for the 37994 than for the 37995 at two different shops, but now I remember that the second M* dealer gave me a bigger discount. So it might be made in Germany after all. Nevertheless, I wonder which models are really assembled in Göppingen now. Obviously not the Nohab or the S 2/6, and the new G 5/5 is assembled in Hungary. On Märklin TV they briefly showed the assembly of the G 5/5, and I recognized one worker who had also appeared in the video about the new extension in Györ.
I just buy the models I personally like now, even if they are made in China.

I still find it strange that there's suddenly free space in the factory. The assembly department must be much smaller now than before 2009. (There have been two extensions of the factory in Hungary since then.) If that free space in Göppingen had been there a few years ago, they could have moved the museum there to save money. Those free rooms were mentioned shortly after the new extension in Györ opened, so there might be a connection. If Märklin won't tell me that a given model is made in Germany, I assume it's not. It's no use buying something because it's supposedly a "premium" model. They won't sack any staff in Göppingen, but are those workers who retire still replaced now? Who knows?

Vintage is easier to assess because any problems associated with a model are well-known by now. No bad surprises as long as you find a model that's mint, no problems with electronic components or decoders, and the old stuff was made in Germany.

Regards, Mark

Hi,

I agree that they must have had some space in Göppingen in 2005 because about 40 per cent (or more?) of the total production came from China then according to some estimates, and they had sacked a lot of workers between 2003 and 2005.

Here are some quotes from the June 2013 edition of 'Unternehmer Edition", a German business magazine, that had a cover story about the way Mr Pluta saved Märklin during the insolvency.

Mr Pluta: "Es war ein absolut desolat geführtes Unternehmen. Viele Mitarbeiter machten, was sie wollten. Unsere Hauptaufgabe bestand darin, dieses Chaos zu ordnen."
Translation: The company was in a desperate condition due to very poor leadership. A lot of staff members did whatever they wanted to. Our main task consisted in getting rid of this chaos to restore order.

So some of the 120 staff members who were sacked during the insolvency must have been unproductive. Another quote from the same article actually suggests that output in Göppingen actually increased during the Pluta years:

"Zudem griffen die neuen Verantwortlichen auch in die Produktion ein: Die Fertigung in China wurde stark reduziert, zugunsten der Standorte Göppingen und Györ in Ungarn. Die Qualität der Produkte aus Asien entsprach nicht mehr den Vorstellungen der Schwaben. Zudem hielten es die Chinesen mit der Liefertreue nicht so genau: "Wir hätten 5 Mio. Umsatz mehr machen können, wenn sie das geliefert hätten, was sie versprochen haben." Druck was das Mittel, das die Chinesen dann verstanden. Pluta setzte ihnen genaue Termine für die Lieferung, ansonsten hätte er die Ware nicht mehr abgenommen. "Sie glauben gar nicht, wie sehr die sich angestrengt haben zu liefern." Dazu kam ein weiteres Problem, mit dem viele Mittelständler, die in China produzieren lassen, zu kämpfen haben: Jedes Jahr klettern die Löhne dort um bis zu 20%, und doch ist die Produktion nicht immer gesichert. Häufig kommt nach Chinese New Year nur noch die Hälfte der Mitarbeiter wieder in den Betrieb zurück. Die Suche nach neuen Angestellten gestaltet sich dann schwierig. In der Insolvenz mussten in Göppingen 120 von 610 Mitarbeitern das Unternehmen verlassen. In Györ mussten vor allem Leiharbeiter gehen. Heute beschäftigen die Göppinger dort 700 Mitarbeiter."

I've translated this for those forum members who do not speak German:

In addition, the new bosses introduced changes in manufacturing. Production in China was significantly reduced in favour of the factories in Göppingen as well as Györ in Hungary. The quality of those products which were made in Asia no longer met the expectations of the Swabians [i.e. Märklin]. Furthermore, the Chinese could not be relied on to deliver goods on time. [Pluta]: "Total sales would have been 5 million [euros] higher if they [i.e. the Chinese] had delivered everything that they had promised to." Pressure was the means that the Chinese eventually understood. Pluta set precise deadlines for delivery and made it clear that he would refuse to accept those goods for which they were not met. [Pluta]: "You won't believe how hard they tried to deliver [on time]." In addition, there was another problem that a lot of companies that have goods manufactured in China face: every year, salaries rise by up to 20% over there, but nevertheless, production cannot always be guaranteed. What often happens is that after the Chinese New Year [holiday], only half of the workers return to their factories, and the subsequent search for new employees is difficult. During the insolvency, 120 out of 610 staff members were dismissed [at Märklin's factory] in Göppingen. In Györ, most staff members who lost their jobs were seasonal workers; nowadays, Märklin employs 700 workers there.

So the factory in Göppingen must have been quite busy during the Pluta years. Between 2010 and 2012, Märklin TV often showed us goods being produced in Göppingen, and those were not just the pilot series, but also final assembly. Now, Märklin TV doesn't show us much about production in Göppingen, except for metal parts. The factory in Györ was extended in 2011 as well as in 2014, so I suppose that assembly takes place there for most products. On the other hand, some newly-designed models are produced in China now, so there seems to have been a shift in the company's strategy recently. Mr Pluta thought that China had been a mistake.

To get back to the free space at the factory in Göppingen, I would guess that they need less room for assembly there now, but according to what this article says and what we have been shown on Märklin TV, more locomotives used to be assembled in Göppingen during the Pluta years. It's a well-known fact that Mr Pluta tried to cut costs; if he had had enough space inside the factory building in 2010 or 2011, he would have moved the museum there to get rid of the other building. He fired Mr Gaugele, so it's clear that he tried to save money in that department. The new owners often talk about metal parts being produced in Göppingen (for those items which are made in Europe) and about assembly in Hungary, but they they hardly ever mention assembly in Göppingen.

For me personally, all the staff members in Göppingen who designed, produced and assembled goods in the past embodied the Märklin company. That's all changed now, old Märklin is gone for good and new Märklin is a different company.

Regards,
Mark

That's right, we can only speculate about the museum, but the evidence I have quoted suggests that Märklin probably assembled more locomotives in Göppingen during the insolvency years than they do now, and that was the point I was trying to make. On the other hand, the production of die-cast metal parts in Göppingen has increased in the last few years because part of the production has been brought back to Europe, and Mr Sieber has specifically pointed that out in interviews.

I suppose that some locomotives are still assembled in Göppingen, but Märklin TV should show that, as they did between 2010 and 2012. My impression is that Göppingen specialises in design, die-casting and the production of pilot series because that's what's mentioned in interviews and on Märklin TV now.

Best regards,
Mark

Unfortunately, today's business model seems to be make it the cheapest way with quality falling by the side. This is not just in the model train industry but nearly every industry, even customer service representatives are now off shore. As far as downsizing goes, I experienced it personally and the reductions were made in the following manner, first the employees not up to the task, then the workers who just did what they had to do, and finally they fired the most expensive (most experienced) workers. The remaining workers were pressured to do two or three times the normal amount of work and were rewarded with unpaid mandatory overtime. China is currently the cheapest place for manufacturing, once another cheaper location is identified, the jobs will be moved there. It is sad that businesses only look for short term profits these days and don't realize that there loyal customer base will disappear in the process. I guess the "investors" will just move on to another company once they finish squeezing out the last drop of profit from their current company.

Little do we know for sure.
Shortly after insolvency began, Herr Pluta was looking for an investor with €100m.
Months later he was looking for an investor with at least €60m.
The Siebers bought years later when Herr Pluta had already reduced Märklin's debts a good deal.
So how much did the Siebers pay for Märklin?

Since they bought Märklin made about €10m profit each year. Sounds like a quick return of investment, assuming they paid much less than €60m for the company.
Time will tell. Job guarantee for Göppingen ends 2019.

I estimate they will need hundreds of additional European workers to end production in China completely.
They never committed themselves to end production in China. They just make a big fuss about every product line they transfer from China to Hungary - enough fuss to make some people believe they gave up production in China long ago and for good.

Thanks for the information. I have never heard BR50.40 was made in Germany, but " Germany made " cannot delight me at all as this locomotive had the seriously assembled fault that i have ever bought.

https://www.marklin-user...s&t=22038#post330003

I agree wth you i just concern how the quality is not where the country made.

Except for Mercedes Benz, BMW, Audi, porsche or Siemens trainsets, I almost cannot buy any german branded products made in Germany in my country if i care about whether the products come from Germany or not.

Hi Tom,

Finally we agree on a few things.

I've had to send back five locomotives in the last three years, one of them twice:
37012 (scratches/replaced by dealer), 36339 (handrail insufficiently painted/not assembled correctly), 2x 37679 (Strukton Nohab/both had scratched handrails), and now 37942 (broken decoder).
One of the Strukton Nohabs was sent to Göppingen twice, and I'm still waiting for my 37942 to be repaired.

I haven't bought that many locomotives in the last two years, so in my case the rate of returns is much higher than Märklin's official average of 2%.
Between 1990 and 2011, I only had about three new locomotives with defects: 37412 (slight problem with a mirror), 37033 (paint defect/noticed in the shop and got another one), and 37623 (visible scratch on the roof). For two of those, I only noticed the problem years later, so I couldn't send them back.

Ironically, the new Nohab that's supposedly made in China (39671) is one of the best Märklin locomotives I've had in years. It's only my guess, but I think that Märklin will gradually phase out assembly in Göppingen (except for pilot series of 50 locomotoves each) as it's too expensive. Did you notice the remark that was made about the machines in the new building in Györ on Märklin TV? It was said that some, but not all the machines in the new extension are new. Where could the old machines come from? They only have one other factory, right? (Alternatively, the machines might come from another building in Györ or from another Simba Dickie factory.) Old machines in a brand new extension in Györ, free rooms in Göppingen, no more images of assembly in Göppingen ... all of that looks suspicious to me. I wouldn't care about assembly in Györ if I hadn't had so many returns recently; I know that the stuff I buy would be much more expensive if everything were assembled in Germany. That video is still on the Märklin website:

Györ Extension Märklin TV 67

Best regards,
Mark

Yes, I noted that, too.

;o)

According to the sticker on the box, the S 2/6 was made in China.

It could be that construction and moulds where made in Korea:
http://korea-brass.com/n...ew&page=&seq=104

Good detective work, Tom.

Based on this news that Korea-Brass actually built the S2/6 37015 for Marklin, I believe that Marklin should sub-contract more of their production to them.

They certainly know how to make a quality model loco!

It also shows how misleading the "Country of origin" sticker can be! Korea is not China!

Hi When Marklin was made I Germany, were they any better than were there made now? I don't think so myself. There is a lot more detail and tech in them for a start? They can't possibly make it all in Germany. It's got to be sauced from all over the place? Marklin is no more expensive than Others, to some extent. I by Marklin. Because if you use one brand with its own brand of track it works like a dream:-) and if parts are made on the other side of the World, I really don't care?
As long as I get a some train playing in and it couples together when I want, loads on the MM2 when I want and runs at a realistic speed with some sound and most of all? Runs for ages without stopping and starting(unlike the Brawa loco I bought) ps have you seen the price of Hornby locks these days? They to are expensive? And made I other parts of the World, what does it matter

HI ,
to me i feel that ( i am from Argentina an i live in Canada so no racist but):
Marklin train made in china with very good quality doesn't matter.
Marklin to me is about the tradition of GERMAN TRAIN made in german.
marklin is the is or was the R Royce on train ,because quality and again TRADITION and prices.

Now to MY POINT OF VIEW i dont going to buy a R Royce made in china (sorry).
i don't like to pay the premium price for toy made in china sorry but to me is so sad.

it will go on for many years to come and there is nothing we can do about it, here in Australia, manufacturing doesn't exist anymore and everything you buy these days is made in China. it isn't about China but the products they are asked to produce and this comes from the buyer and not the people in China.
I can buy connectors for 10 for 1 A$ and free delivery, if I buy them here this will cost me 1 Australian dollar for 1 and the list goes on and on, companies ripping us off left right and centre and the internet will kill a lot of businesses because of the internet.

Germany today would like to produce everything homegrown and buying products from overseas is not in their interest.

John

I was told by one dealer that M is not going to produce more in China...

My loco I just purchased, 37577, had similar sticker saying "Made in Hungary".

Hi Guys
Just to add my five beans, I have just purchased a Marklin 36243, from Amazon.de and the box had made in China printed on it.
I did see this discussion was going off toward fair trade agreements but........

Anyway more importantly Westham have just scored in the last minute of extra time to beat Liverpool in the FA Cup!!
For our American members that's with a round ball! But we cannot afford to have Beyoncé at half time singing!

Harry

Keep in mine the iPhone is made in China and it sells for an outrageous price.

For my part I'm glad that they have done away with the old fashioned concept that manufacturing can only be good in one particular country. This only leads to expectations of quality that have no basis in reality.

The important thing in today's manufacturing world is to have a good system of quality control to minimise the number of returns due to defects. If Marklin (and virtually every other brand) finds that they can achieve good quality and at the same time lower the price for the consumer it is only right that they pursue such options.

China has achieved a huge mass of experience in manufacturing hi-technology items over the last 20 or so years, and there is no doubting the quality of, for example, Brawa locos, so why should Marklin stick to an outdated image of "Made in Germany" when they can achieve better results by going to the specialists.

So far I have had no problems with any of my recent Marklin locos, except for a motor that failed in my Kof III and was duly replaced at a modest cost. I think many, when they open a box that says "Made in China", automatically become super-critical, and pre-disposed to find errors and defects. I have no such prejudice.

Soon the location of production is going to become irrelevant - I note that Humbrol (Hornby) intends to release a 3D printer in late 2016. So could model railway companies just become owners of intellectual property, sending out designs over the internet and then the customer prints out his new model in the comfort of his own home?

Carim

I am remembering the poor state of the plastic triang parts after 40 years - I can't see the type of plastic used in contemporary 3D printers having the right chemistry to ensure a durable and UV-resistant product.

Smart business practice. If a company is to survive, they must sell their products for what we are willing to pay, not just some simple percentage above manufacturing cost. Some products are more profitable than others simply because we are willing to pay more for it.

Is the iPhone X times better than the other smart phones? Probably not, but Apple has marketed themselves well and we will pay more for their phone.