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Offline river6109  
#1 Posted : 07 April 2014 08:42:22(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,875
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Tom has this to say:

Happy customer of Roco, Piko, Fleischmann, ESU, Brawa, Liliput, Rivarossi, Lima, ... - and will happily continue to buy locos that run well out of the box. I'm also happy with 95% of my Märklin items, but will avoid a few cost-optimized items made 2011 or later.

and the late part of his likes explains, will avoid ...... Märklin items made later than 2011.
Now this is interesting because I'm pretty sure I've done the same thing but I can't remember why, may be the mfx issue but I think they came out before that.
to put it into a nutshell it was obvious with me, mfx wasn't a thing for me (closed protocol) to some considerable degree the design detail of a loco has increased (for the good) but again the different motor type has taken its toll by going forwards and backwards,
All I'm saying are there any issues with current sound decoders and are they programmable ?
the only issue I have with Roco is they've changed the supplier for their decoders and now using Uhlenbrock and Zimo sound decoders which again are not compatible to program with an ESU system (sound slots) and Zimo is producing their own sound decoders, e.g. Rh 1010, Rh 1110, Rh 4010, Rh 1043, Rh 1040, Rh 1070 and more.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline RayF  
#2 Posted : 07 April 2014 13:17:57(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
We all have our opinions on different manufacturers, and Tom is entitled to his views on the latest Marklin products. This has been well covered in other threads.

I'm a great fan of the MFX system since I upgraded my controller from the 6021 to the MS2. Changing trains on my layout is a lot quicker and easier when I don't need to find decoder addresses.

Having said that I really like some of my newer Piko locos too, which run very well for the price tag, and I also have a few other locos such as Liliput, Lima, Roco and Brawa which I'm pleased with.

What I like best about Marklin locos and wagons is that generally they will work well with each other and with all Marklin tracks and accessories. When you put other manufacturers products on your layout there is no guarantee that your couplings will work well and there may be problems with wheels through turnouts etc.


This deleted post was restored by moderator.
Please don't delete posts because this disturbs the 'flow' of the forum.


I protest. These posts were deleted by request of the thread owner!

Edited by user 12 April 2014 19:56:44(UTC)  | Reason: Comment by poster!

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline biedmatt  
#3 Posted : 07 April 2014 14:21:14(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
I am no fan of MFX either, but that is a choice based on preferences. What truly pisses me off is they have DCC already in their decoders and chose to block it. It would be nice to have that option and the option of turning off MFX. But alas, this is yet another case of "Our way or the highway". This attitude dates back several decades. I never expect them to change.

I too have stopped buying lokos. I am only getting one this year and it is because I have wanted one for years- a second generation Be 6/8. I have always wanted one with the extra counterbalance arm swinging around. I skipped the two loko set because the brown was not my era and I wanted one that represented the majority of the rebuilds-one set of doors welded shut. It will get a LokSnd V4 installed immediately after I confirm it works okay. So no three pole motor issues for me, it will have a good decoder.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 07 April 2014 15:02:11(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,451
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
All I'm saying are there any issues with current sound decoders and are they programmable?
Decoders in Märklin and Trix H0 locos are locked against firmware and sound upgrades. For upgrades send the decoder to Göppingen.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 07 April 2014 15:10:58(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,451
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
When you put other manufacturers products on your layout there is no guarantee that your couplings will work well and there may be problems with wheels through turnouts etc.
I've found that DC wheels from Roco, Fleischmann, and Trix work fine on Märklin C track.
With Piko cars I normally install the appropriate AC wheel sets from Piko.
Minimum radius for me is C track R2. Some third party rolling stock is not compatible with C track R1.

It's a well-known fact that Märklin couplers do not work with scale models from other brands. The Roco Universal coupler is a good replacement between loco and first car (I also use it for all freight cars that come without suitable short coupler).
Between passenger coaches I normally use Roco Short couplers.
IMHO it's great that NEM coupler pockets allow to use rolling stock from many different brands.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline RayF  
#6 Posted : 07 April 2014 16:22:40(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
When you put other manufacturers products on your layout there is no guarantee that your couplings will work well and there may be problems with wheels through turnouts etc.
I've found that DC wheels from Roco, Fleischmann, and Trix work fine on Märklin C track.
With Piko cars I normally install the appropriate AC wheel sets from Piko.
Minimum radius for me is C track R2. Some third party rolling stock is not compatible with C track R1.

It's a well-known fact that Märklin couplers do not work with scale models from other brands. The Roco Universal coupler is a good replacement between loco and first car (I also use it for all freight cars that come without suitable short coupler).
Between passenger coaches I normally use Roco Short couplers.
IMHO it's great that NEM coupler pockets allow to use rolling stock from many different brands.


I have plenty of non-Marklin stock, and some run with modifications and others don't, but my comments stand. It's so very satisfying to know that when you put a Marklin loco or wagon on Marklin track that everything will work just as it should!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 08 April 2014 08:37:57(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,451
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
It's so very satisfying to know that when you put a Marklin loco or wagon on Marklin track that everything will work just as it should!
I spent hours treating my Märklin Ommi freight cars with a small knife and a key file to get them run freely as they should. Märklin said it was a design flaw, but their locos were strong enough.

I've added wires to Märklin items to save the return trip to the company. They did it again with the Re 4/4 II recently.
I installed parts they didn't install at the factory or even disassembled Märklin locos to remove grates and assemble them properly or the right way around.

I had a few locos go back because the decoders were not programmed properly. We know that every Märklin loco gets a test run at the factory. At that day they must have had a deaf person do the sound checks (the sound project had been partially loaded only and the loco sound was stuttering).

Other locos had to go back because the wheels were not properly quartered.

All these problems so far were unique to Märklin in my experience.

I had a few Märklin items go back with dead decoder, dead speaker, dead LEDs and such. Not unusual, also happens with other brands.

All my locos with Compact C Sine had to go back: electronics had a design flaw.

So all in all in my experience Märklin items have a rather high return rate because out of the box they often do not work as expected.
It's so very dissatisfying to know that you cannot take a single word from the product description for granted. Missing flywheels, yellow LEDs while warmwhite LEDs were advertised, ...

Mike's buyer's experience with the SBB Lion loco was not fully satisfying yet, Jonas' Dm3 special series appears to be incorrectly assembled.

I'm sorry to say that my trust in Märklin is impaired. Smart German engineering, but a language barrier between engineers and assembly staff and a QA/QC problem.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline RayF  
#8 Posted : 08 April 2014 11:13:13(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Tom, I'm not saying that there are no flaws with Marklin's products. I think you are missing my point.

My point is that, assuming there are no quality problems, Marklin products are all designed to work with all other Marklin products. This is not necessarily true of other products. They may work within their own brands, but create problems with Marklin products which will require modification.

As I have said above, I also own locos and stock from other brands, and I run them with my Marklin trains. There are sometimes derailments caused by incompatible coupler designs, buffer heights and wheel standards. While one may argue that these could be Marklin's fault, there is no denying that these problems don't arise if you stick to Marklin stock.

Please go ahead and have the last word if you must. I tire of this gane.



This deleted post was restored by moderator.
Please don't delete posts because this disturbs the 'flow' of the forum.

Edited by moderator 12 April 2014 19:05:37(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline river6109  
#9 Posted : 08 April 2014 11:54:51(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,875
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Ray, my point was and when I read Toms avatar conclusion I thought I add my bit to it and I just wanted to know what other defects or other reasons members or Märklin fans had not buy any more locos after 2011.
I'm not talking about members., like you, which have been satisfied with all Märklin gear, I was curious why members have stopped buying stuff from 2011 onwards. Matt for instance pointed out mfx and as Tom explained the unfortunate experiences he had with his purchases and my own conclusion about mfx.
Interesting to know that sounds or decoders with updates have to go back to Germany but I assume this would depend on whether the decoder in question can be safely separated from the circuit board like a 21 pin decoder.
I also combine these above facts with the possibility of returning or having to return locos and the cost involved. so its the uncertainty about the state of a loco may it be the design, design fault, dead decoder or any other misfortune the question has to be asked how much is this loco costing me in case of any fault.
One could also assume the amount of stock is sold by Märklin what percentage is being returned and are they one off occurrences.

it is fair to say, buying anything today has its risks and this is not just in the model train area but many other items offered for sale.it may be a good and save idea to wait what other model train enthusiasts think or report about a loco regardless who is the manufacturer and therefore limiting the risk of finishing up with a dud.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline RayF  
#10 Posted : 08 April 2014 13:08:26(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Thanks for the clarification, John. I though this was more a general discussion about different manufacturers.

As you said, I have had no reason so far to stop buying Marklin locos. I have noted with interest the reasons some have given, and generally have not felt that they have put me off from buying Marklin locos.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline river6109  
#11 Posted : 08 April 2014 13:13:38(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,875
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the clarification, John. I though this was more a general discussion about different manufacturers.

As you said, I have had no reason so far to stop buying Marklin locos. I have noted with interest the reasons some have given, and generally have not felt that they have put me off from buying Marklin locos.


Ray in a sense it is but the key point was not buying Märklin locos from 2011 onwards. I myself haven't had any issues with Märklin locos because I haven't bought any and the ones I have bought had been reproductions of older moulds such as the DB BR 194 class.

John




https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline RayF  
#12 Posted : 08 April 2014 13:32:12(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the clarification, John. I though this was more a general discussion about different manufacturers.

As you said, I have had no reason so far to stop buying Marklin locos. I have noted with interest the reasons some have given, and generally have not felt that they have put me off from buying Marklin locos.


Ray in a sense it is but the key point was not buying Märklin locos from 2011 onwards. I myself haven't had any issues with Märklin locos because I haven't bought any and the ones I have bought had been reproductions of older moulds such as the DB BR 194 class.

John






That's interesting to hear, John. I actually think the new tooling locos from the last few years are much nicer than those that have been re-hashed from older toolings.

If you look at the detail and accuracy in the new Br 03, Br41, Br50, E93 etc, they show up the defects in the older toolings. Cabs that are not filled with motors, fireboxes that don't have extra bulges to fit the larger DCM motors, chassis that don't have visible gear wheels, all these qualities of the newer toolings are advances that Marklin needed to introduce to keep up with the standards set by other manufacturers.

I understand that some problems will be found as new technology is introduced which is not always to the liking of every modeller, even when it works as it should. This is probably a fact of life in every field today, unfortunately!

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline river6109  
#13 Posted : 08 April 2014 14:11:54(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,875
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Ray,

suppose it would be a major factor of buying newer locos with new tooling and even better details and i must say it took Märklin a while to wake up there are hooks and hoses at the front of a loco and not just imitations, besides this, a complete look through of a steam loco frame is now possible and saw the other day even the inside cylinder was recreated and I'm sure the 5 pole motor had been an issue as well as I found out today (different topic) under digital. one would have thought a 5 pole motor is the answer but I'm slowly having doubts about them and it would be a disaster if I have to change them all because of their mix match performance, I hope not, if I don't get satisfactory results I may try to add ball bearings to the internal cogwheels as well.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline H0  
#14 Posted : 11 April 2014 07:53:27(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,451
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
My point is that, assuming there are no quality problems, Marklin products are all designed to work with all other Marklin products. This is not necessarily true of other products. They may work within their own brands, but create problems with Marklin products which will require modification.
Is it an advantage or a disadvantage? Märklin are making their products compatible with Märklin only, while all other companies try to make their products compatible with NEM and thus with all other companies (with few exceptions).
Older rolling stock (without NEM pockets) was not made for compatibility and may cause problems with all brands.

My point is that nowadays all companies try to be NEM compatible which helps a lot. Only Märklin fail to have NEM compatible couplers and mfx/mfx+ were designed to keep others out.

When a third-party coach derails in every curve, then maybe the Märklin coupler is to blame, not the coach. I've had that problem and I solved it by not using Märklin couplers in this situation. For rolling stock with prototypical buffer height, do not use Märklin close couplers - not even on the next rolling stock.

Many Märklin fans in such a situation probably blame the third party rolling stock and not the non-standard coupler ...
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline RayF  
#15 Posted : 11 April 2014 09:19:34(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
You can look at it that way, from a non Marklin-users point of view, or from a Marklin-users point of view. There are two standards. You choose the one you like, but all those who insist on the standards developed for 2 rail DC should stick to DC, in my opinion, and leave Marklin alone.

No wait! You want the best of both worlds? Then you have to acknowledge there are differences between Marklin/3 rail/AC and everybody else.


This deleted post was restored by moderator.
Please don't delete posts because this disturbs the 'flow' of the forum.

Edited by moderator 12 April 2014 19:08:31(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline RayF  
#16 Posted : 11 April 2014 09:29:36(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I've just gone back and re-read this thread from the beginning. It seems to me that the whole point of it is to promote Tom's signature and not a serious attempt to discuss what each manufacturer has to offer.

Apart from a brief comment by Matt, it's just been John, Tom and myself, and we all know that we are all three firmly entrenched in our opinions. I don't see any point in continuing this thread.

By the way, I used to prefer Tom's previous signature, with the phrase "If you have nothing good to say then say nothing" (or words to that effect).


This deleted post was restored by moderator.
Please don't delete posts because this disturbs the 'flow' of the forum.

Edited by moderator 12 April 2014 19:09:42(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Janne75  
#17 Posted : 11 April 2014 09:46:05(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,552
Location: Finland
Hi,

I have only a few locos that are from the year 2011 or newer and no problem with mfx in these as they work ok. I have found out that Märklin used different wheels in their older locos and rolling stock before and they sometimes do short circuits on my outer main line wide radius turnouts. No problem with normal turnouts. We have discussed from this subject with my Finnish Märklin dealer and he confirmed me about this issue with old Märklin wheels (from the time before C-track). Roco wheels are good with Märklin C-track and there are no problems with them.

I have to stop buying locos too as there really are enough now. I will just quit using eBay for a while after I have finished all the newest purchases. When not using eBay there are no temptations and the main thing even when using eBay is to not put many items in the "watch list" as otherwise there are too many temptations. I will just enjoy from the items that I have now. Many models I have dreamed of for around 10 years have been bought recently like 37450 BR 45, 37605 VT 11.5 and 39821 V 200.1. Better for my wallet also to have a break Wink .

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline mike c  
#18 Posted : 11 April 2014 10:18:06(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,241
Location: Montreal, QC
Here are my ten cents (inflation). No matter which brand we are talking about, when you are selling a loco with a retail price of around 300 Euros, the customer has a right to expect that the item will be delivered without missing wires, paint flaws or other defect and in the case that there is a flaw that is not detected at quality control, that the customer service will replace or repair the item at no cost to the customer.

I have to give respect to LS Models. Over the past few years, every broken bogie or missing part has been promptly replaced. When a series of SBB coaches were delivered with missing details on one side, they very quickly delivered 4 replacement shells to replace the ones with a minor production flaw. This is customer service. For this reason, I have no hesitation to commit to buy the newly released RAe Gottardo with sound, because LSM's track record assures me that the gangway and bogie issues will be taken care of as soon as the replacement parts are ready. That said, their email response time is not as good as a few years ago.

I just received a replacement box for a Roco lok that was damaged in 2011. It took over two years and even then, it was a generic box that they finally sent me.

Maerklin's current customer service is a disappointment. I remember how pleased I was when Maerklin intervened on my behalf to resolve an issue with a loco that was damaged in shipment twice and the dealer had refused to replace it a third time. It seems that today's service is not what it used to be.

These companies need to recommit to customer service and realize that customer satisfaction should be their top priority in this market where they depend on the core niche of existing modelers for most of their sales and that dissatisfied customers are not going to help them maintain their market share in the coming years.

If you want my money, you had better deliver a product that corresponds to what you have advertised and you had better stand behind your product and honour your obligations when it does not meet expectations.

Regards

Mike C
Offline kimballthurlow  
#19 Posted : 11 April 2014 11:32:21(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,764
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi,
I don't usually say too much on this forum, and I certainly don't usually "spill my guts" as we say in Australia.

Anyway, to get down to tin-tacks, two (2) of my Insider models failed this week for some reason.
One is still under warranty, and the other is well out of it. Both are MFX.
Neither of them respond correctly to my 60212 controller, although I get different responses.
One races off uncontrollably, the other just issues the standard chuff sounds but does not move.

Anyway, to prove a point, here is my positive attitude to the Marklin brand.

1. I phoned Marklin service, explained the problem, and he suggested I place both locos separately, on another controller, and see if there is a different response. Which I did, no luck there, as the MFX did not register.
My point? What other toy or model manufacturer in the world, has this free and open capability to respond first hand to their customers, direct at the factory?
Not even Mercedes Benz does that.

2. I will pack both locos off to Marklin service in the post, that will cost me very little in relation to my overall hobby expenses.

3. One loco will cost me nothing for repairs (under warranty), the other will cost me probably less than 100 Euros. To my way of thinking, that is good value. Both locos have had about 10 hours of use, so I have had my fun with them anyway.

4. Considering I have about 30 Marklin locos, it is a small proportion. I have had failures in other 2 rail brands over the last 10 years, some like 100% (2 out of 2). A local model train retailer (doesn't sell Marklin) was telling me today that some of the quality control from products made elsewhere, is currently as bad as he has ever seen.

5. I have one other 3 rail digital loco made by Liliput. It is a lovely runner, but there is one slight incompatability with my Marklin C track wide radius turnouts, which I can avoid.

6. Most of my other models are 2 rail DC or DCC of various brands. Some I appreciate in terms of value for cost, some I certainly don't. I seem to have a consistent liking for all of my Marklin products.

7. Considering the number of parts in a modern Marklin loco (over 300) compared to my 1940s Hornby Dublo (about 22 parts, like early Marklin I guess), I can appreciate the failure rates will be completely disparate.

regards
Kimball

Edited by user 11 April 2014 23:32:38(UTC)  | Reason: Added Point #7.

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline mbarreto  
#20 Posted : 11 April 2014 12:01:13(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,334
Kimbal,
Probably you already did it, but in case you didn't, a suggestion is to reset the loco decoders.

I agree with you about the value of Märklin and also the way you look at the hobby regarding the several model train manufacturers.
Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


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Offline kimballthurlow  
#21 Posted : 11 April 2014 12:10:42(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,764
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Yes, thanks Miguel, I had not thought of that. They are both still registered on my 60212, so I will see if I can do that.
Although, I have my doubts, as neither was responding.

Anyway, my wife has just made a new batch of scones, and that is eminently more important to me.
The engines can wait for a few days!

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline Janne75  
#22 Posted : 11 April 2014 12:18:12(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,552
Location: Finland
Decoder resets may do the trick. I have done it many times succesfully. Try that first to see how it goes so you maybe don´t have to send them to Märklin and save that other locos service costs.

Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline river6109  
#23 Posted : 11 April 2014 13:14:08(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,875
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
You can look at it that way, from a non Marklin-users point of view, or from a Marklin-users point of view. There are two standards. You choose the one you like, but all those who insist on the standards developed for 2 rail DC should stick to DC, in my opinion, and leave Marklin alone.

No wait! You want the best of both worlds? Then you have to acknowledge there are differences between Marklin/3 rail/AC and everybody else.


My topic wasn't intended to dick into any manufacturer or spill my gut over a purchase, nor was my intention to open up a battlefield just a topic to hear reasons or experiences someone had, not for or against Märklin, we all have a choice of point of view and you choose the one you like whether it is 2 or 3 rail whether is mfx or analog.

being curious doesn't mean the answers member write about it, if any, some choices can be married with Märklin and other manufacturers, such as a Roco silent slider (recommendable for C-track) an ESU M4 decoder (open protocol) and if it is just Tom and myself, so be it, I'm not trying to prove who is right or wrong, who is guilty or not guilty and we all set standards from our own interpretation what we perceive as good value and design.
If you ask me which manufacturer would I choose when it comes to steam locos and my answer is Märklin, why, because I would have to buy 2 locos from Roco or Liliput to get the same performance to carry x amount of carriages.

another choice and conversion I've made with Märklin steam locos (plastic housing) to insert a smoke generator from Seuthe, Märklin doesn't produce them, If I convert a motor with ball bearing, Märklin doesn't produce one, if I add a telex coupling (or similar) to a Märklin loco with out one (Roco electrical coupling) I like to improve it for my own satisfaction, there is no mention from me as a non Marklin-users point of view, or from a Marklin-users point of view or from a Märklin or none Märklin enthusiast.
My interest lies in model trains and layouts and it happen to be I grew up with Märklin and while growing up I've learned other things beside Märklin and Juhan has given us the opportunity to share our likes and dislikes experiences from time to time

John



https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline RayF  
#24 Posted : 11 April 2014 13:14:09(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Kimball, you have a commendably positive attitude towards the problems with your locos. I prefer this by far to the constant wingeing we get from some people.

The world would be a better place if we all thought like you! ThumpUp
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline biedmatt  
#25 Posted : 11 April 2014 13:43:16(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Maybe this will get Marklin's attention.

UserPostedImage

The picture above is the MFX decoders I have replaced so I can run my lokos with DCC. All but eight were replaced with ESU LokSnd V4s at a cost of $130 US each. The other eight were no sound lokos like the 30210 that got replaced with LoPi V4 decoders. This by the way is not all of them. At some point I started to just throw them in a box and not put them back in the individual loko boxes. The image above represents real dollars spent, not some pie in the sky "If I had this money I would do...", but an actual outlay of money. More than $6000 US in expenditures is shown. I am not the only one who replaces MFX decoders so we can run Marklin lokos in DCC. This is money that could have been spent on Marklin products and not ESU decoders. All Marklin have to do is unlock the DCC format that already exists in their decoders and I would have sent the money their way and not ESU's. The sad bit is it would cost Marklin nothing to earn this money, like I said above, the format already exists in their decoders. The model railroad market is shrinking with each passing day us old guys get older. The kids today have very little, if any interest in this hobby. Why in a shrinking market you would let money that would have landed in your pocket go just so you can control the digital format used to operate your lokos makes no sense to me. Free money that they apparently neither want nor need. People expect choices today. Limit their choices and they will start to look elsewhere. Control freaks, what they do not understand is the tighter they try to hold us, the more we slip through their fingers.

UserPostedImage
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline biedmatt  
#26 Posted : 11 April 2014 13:49:26(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Kimball, you have a commendably positive attitude towards the problems with your locos. I prefer this by far to the constant wingeing we get from some people.

The world would be a better place if we all thought like you! ThumpUp


Maybe, or perhaps we would still have the rough diecast models from the 50s through the 80s if we did not expect more from them. You yourself Ray in this thread noted the improvement in the model quality of Marklin's lokos. Had we not expected more, we would not have got more.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline RayF  
#27 Posted : 11 April 2014 14:24:33(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
Maybe this will get Marklin's attention.

The picture above is the MFX decoders I have replaced so I can run my lokos with DCC. All but eight were replaced with ESU LokSnd V4s at a cost of $130 US each. The other eight were no sound lokos like the 30210 that got replaced with LoPi V4 decoders. This by the way is not all of them. At some point I started to just throw them in a box and not put them back in the individual loko boxes. The image above represents real dollars spent, not some pie in the sky "If I had this money I would do...", but an actual outlay of money. More than $6000 US in expenditures is shown. I am not the only one who replaces MFX decoders so we can run Marklin lokos in DCC. This is money that could have been spent on Marklin products and not ESU decoders. All Marklin have to do is unlock the DCC format that already exists in their decoders and I would have sent the money their way and not ESU's. The sad bit is it would cost Marklin nothing to earn this money, like I said above, the format already exists in their decoders. The model railroad market is shrinking with each passing day us old guys get older. The kids today have very little, if any interest in this hobby. Why in a shrinking market you would let money that would have landed in your pocket go just so you can control the digital format used to operate your lokos makes no sense to me. Free money that they apparently neither want nor need. People expect choices today. Limit their choices and they will start to look elsewhere. Control freaks, what they do not understand is the tighter they try to hold us, the more we slip through their fingers.



I can't imagine there will be many people who will spend that much money just to change from one digital standard to another one. Why don't you just go with another manufacturer and stick to 2 rail?

Still, it's your money....


This deleted post was restored by moderator.
Please don't delete posts because this disturbs the 'flow' of the forum.

Edited by moderator 12 April 2014 19:10:56(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline RayF  
#28 Posted : 11 April 2014 14:30:06(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Kimball, you have a commendably positive attitude towards the problems with your locos. I prefer this by far to the constant wingeing we get from some people.

The world would be a better place if we all thought like you! ThumpUp


Maybe, or perhaps we would still have the rough diecast models from the 50s through the 80s if we did not expect more from them. You yourself Ray in this thread noted the improvement in the model quality of Marklin's lokos. Had we not expected more, we would not have got more.


You're saying you need to complain to get more advanced products? It sounds like somehow Marklin is a lazy husband who needs to be nagged all the time to do their housework.

I'm sure Marklin is very aware of the need to keep improving their products to keep their place in the market.

I encourage manufacturers to make better products by buying those items I like, and not buying those I don't. That's how the market works.



This deleted post was restored by moderator.
Please don't delete posts because this disturbs the 'flow' of the forum.

Edited by moderator 12 April 2014 19:12:03(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline biedmatt  
#29 Posted : 11 April 2014 14:33:35(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Both were replies I expected and what happens when two parties do not understand the motivations of each other. None the less, Marklin must not want my money. I thought the desire to have money was universal. Especially with a manufacturer who has stockholders to answer to. I must be wrong.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline RayF  
#30 Posted : 11 April 2014 15:02:32(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Marklin obviously are committed to their mfx protocol and want to promote it by having only mfx (and MM for backwards compatibility) in their new locos. They want to sell a whole digital system as well as trains, so it's not hard to understand that they don't want to promote a rival system.

You still have the choice of buying Roco, Fleischmann, Brawa, Hag etc, etc, etc if you really cannot do without DCC.


This deleted post was restored by moderator.
Please don't delete posts because this disturbs the 'flow' of the forum.

Edited by moderator 12 April 2014 19:13:00(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline biedmatt  
#31 Posted : 11 April 2014 15:06:58(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
And the last word goes to...Ray.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline kbvrod  
#32 Posted : 11 April 2014 15:36:41(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi all,
Can I have the last word?No?Blink BigGrin

Dr Dirt
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Offline river6109  
#33 Posted : 11 April 2014 17:52:51(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,875
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Ray wrote: so it's not hard to understand that they don't want to promote a rival system.

Yes Märklin did, under their brand they've produced a digital system, the motorola system and yes Märklin introduced ESU decoders into their locos including MFX until the day came when they've decided to take ESU to court but it never eventuated and if I remember right they were using a well known and state of the art electronic firm to help them with their new digital system or is this still in the pipeline.



https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline mike c  
#34 Posted : 11 April 2014 19:21:42(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,241
Location: Montreal, QC
Has it ever occurred to some of the members here that some of us have been loyal to Maerklin for years and that the introduction to digital is only a very recent phenomenon. For some of us (not including myself), the entry into digital offered the choice of Motorola (6021) or MFX/DCC (1st Generation Maerklin/ESU). DCC offered many options that were not accessible using the FX/MFX decoders offered at that point. There is no reason for this to mean that these users should switch to 2 Rail or any other system.

Maerklin contracted ESU to develop the MFX protocols and their new digital system. Somewhere along the line, they terminated that contract and attempted to develop their own controller and decoders, which was not a big success. They have since contracted a separate outside company to assist in the development and this finally yielded the MS2, CS2 and the current decoders.
The downside is that whereas the earlier decoders could be modified using ESU's Lokprogrammer, the newer ones do not offer as much flexibility.

Whether people are critical of models or other aspects of the hobby, it should not be taken as an attack on the hobby, on a particular company or personally, but just as a criticism of that particular model.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline RayF  
#35 Posted : 11 April 2014 19:24:03(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Yes, thanks Miguel, I had not thought of that. They are both still registered on my 60212, so I will see if I can do that.
Although, I have my doubts, as neither was responding.

Anyway, my wife has just made a new batch of scones, and that is eminently more important to me.
The engines can wait for a few days!

regards
Kimball


How were the scones? I wouldn't mind one myself!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Webmaster  
#36 Posted : 11 April 2014 19:38:16(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,165
The thing is that we all have our own expectations and preferences about the hobby - and that is our personal choice since we feel great with it.

To have opinions about other fellow model railroaders choices is always seen from the standpoint of our own choice.
And then we will always be wrong, since others may have slightly different preference set than ourselves...

To have opinions regarding certain models and such is always right, but we can't really criticize each other for making a choice
that works great for the other even if it's different from my own preferred choice...

2-rail or 3-rail, DCC or other digital systems like Märklin Digital - a no-brainer, you choose what you prefer yourself and the
rails do not matter at all regarding the chosen digital system... So I wonder why these nonsense discussions pop up now and then...

This topic should deal with manufacturers - their products, overall quality, availability, detailing and such stuff... Shouldn't it?
The constant changes from eg Roco regarding standard decoders is one thing, but we can still replace them with things we like - can't we?
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#37 Posted : 11 April 2014 23:26:45(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,764
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Yes, thanks Miguel, I had not thought of that. They are both still registered on my 60212, so I will see if I can do that.
Although, I have my doubts, as neither was responding.

Anyway, my wife has just made a new batch of scones, and that is eminently more important to me.
The engines can wait for a few days!

regards
Kimball


How were the scones? I wouldn't mind one myself!


Hi Ray,
if you are ever near Brisbane, Australia, please give me a call and you can try some.

My wife is an inveterate explorer of all things cuisine, so each week tries a new scone recipe.

Tonight, she used the tried and true recipe with sour cream instead of milk. The scones are delicious, and I helped myself to at least 3 (maybe more, but I'm not telling).

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline RayF  
#38 Posted : 11 April 2014 23:36:26(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Yes, thanks Miguel, I had not thought of that. They are both still registered on my 60212, so I will see if I can do that.
Although, I have my doubts, as neither was responding.

Anyway, my wife has just made a new batch of scones, and that is eminently more important to me.
The engines can wait for a few days!

regards
Kimball


How were the scones? I wouldn't mind one myself!


Hi Ray,
if you are ever near Brisbane, Australia, please give me a call and you can try some.

My wife is an inveterate explorer of all things cuisine, so each week tries a new scone recipe.

Tonight, she used the tried and true recipe with sour cream instead of milk. The scones are delicious, and I helped myself to at least 3 (maybe more, but I'm not telling).

regards
Kimball


Sounds good! If I'm ever in your area I'll look you up!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline biedmatt  
#39 Posted : 12 April 2014 17:10:39(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
I am sorry to see Ray delete his posts from this thread. Once you put forth an idea or opinion people, you invite discussion, pro and con.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline kweekalot  
#40 Posted : 12 April 2014 18:57:57(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,478
Location: Holland
Yes, I'm also very sorry to see Ray delete his posts

Deleting posts disturbs the flow of a thread.

So please stop deleting messages, it is also a lot of work for the moderators to recover and restore the deleted postings.
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Offline RayF  
#41 Posted : 12 April 2014 19:40:32(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Yes, I'm also very sorry to see Ray delete his posts

Deleting posts disturbs the flow of a thread.

So please stop deleting messages, it is also a lot of work for the moderators to recover and restore the deleted postings.


I deleted my posts because the thread "owner" asked me by PM to keep out of "his" thread.

PLEASE DO NOT RECOVER AND RESTORE THE DELETED POSTINGS>
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline RayF  
#42 Posted : 12 April 2014 19:42:03(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
I am sorry to see Ray delete his posts from this thread. Once you put forth an idea or opinion people, you invite discussion, pro and con.


I'm sorry too. I only did it because my opinion was not welcome.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline kweekalot  
#43 Posted : 12 April 2014 20:28:41(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,478
Location: Holland
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Yes, I'm also very sorry to see Ray delete his posts

Deleting posts disturbs the flow of a thread.

So please stop deleting messages, it is also a lot of work for the moderators to recover and restore the deleted postings.


I deleted my posts because the thread "owner" asked me by PM to keep out of "his" thread.

PLEASE DO NOT RECOVER AND RESTORE THE DELETED POSTINGS>



Hi Ray,

Marklin-users is an open forum, intended to share the fun of Marklin and model railroads and such.
It is totally absurd if one member asks another member to stay out of 'his' thread. Blink

I have already restored the deleted posts because they disturbs the flow and readability of the thread.
I'm certainly not going to deleted them again, because someone have said you're not welcome in his thread.
And please do not delete them again yourself.

Marco
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Offline RayF  
#44 Posted : 12 April 2014 22:09:03(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I don't know what I have to do to keep people happy any more.

Not post at all?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#45 Posted : 12 April 2014 22:30:26(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,772
Location: New Zealand
Well, I don't think John should be telling other forum members that they are not welcome in any threads. Such behaviour harks back to that of a previous member, and I don't think any of us wants to go there again.

Ray is quite entitled to post his opinions (and I'm not seeing anything controversial in them) and should not be put in a position where he feels has to delete them all.

We are all meant to be adults here, it would be nice if everyone started acting like it!
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Offline kweekalot  
#46 Posted : 12 April 2014 23:05:19(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,478
Location: Holland
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I don't know what I have to do to keep people happy any more.

Not post at all?


Dear Ray,

There will always be differences of opinion and no discussion forum will ever be without 'problems' because we're all human beings and carry the flaws of our characters.
Sometimes all we can do is take some things "with a grain of salt" and move on.

I always appreciate your posts, so please keep posting and let us all enjoy this great forum for what it has to offer.

Marco
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Offline hxmiesa  
#47 Posted : 14 April 2014 16:05:37(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,594
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I don't know what I have to do to keep people happy any more.

Huh? Nothing at all! If somebody asked me to butt out, I would be so damned that I´d write another message right away. -Just to prove my point! ;-)
Anyway... this posting is totally off-topic, and I´ll accept moderation, -but only by the appropriate authorities!
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline intruder  
#48 Posted : 14 April 2014 16:48:10(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
I will not join this discussion, bt inform a little bit about my situation. I have 140 Märklin H0 locomotives, Most of them are over the years bought new from Märklin dealers (mostly in Oslo, a few kilometres from home), from 1983 to2014. I never had to return any of them for repair. Maybe I have been lucky.

I do not mind the closed mfx decoders, as I have no intension to alter sounds etc. I can change what I wish regarding sound volume ( I always reduce to 50%), light intensity and functions with my good old CS1. so I see no issues with the Märklin decoders.
I have to say, though, I prefer the old school locomotives with the good old three- or five-pole motors, as they can easily be conveted to HLA with the different Märklin motor and decoder conversion sets.
I am not so comfortable with the new can motors, from a serviceability point of view. -for me. that is not Märklin, but that does not stop me from supporting Märklin also in the future.


Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
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Offline NZMarklinist  
#49 Posted : 14 April 2014 17:14:36(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
HI All,

I too am a fan of the MFX system, the reason we are were we are with it is because our much praised ESU were/are a bunch of crooks basically, and originally, delivered Marklin a cripled version of the CS1.
The Marklin management of the day were held to account for what was probably a very loose set of specifications for the CS1
Then using the huge some of money Marklin probably paid them, they developed the Ecos alonside and produced it with all the features the CS1 should have come with in the first place.
They then went on to charge us CS1-R owners a not inconsiderable sum to upgrade our CS1's to were the Ecos was.
You cannot blame M for creating a new controller and subsequently another form of MFX decoders
I can and do blame them tho, for giving us cheap three pole can motors that in some examples of some models, do not perform as nicely and smootly as we came to expect after the SDS powered units.

Funds permitting I will try a CS2 for it's MFX+. I have ordered the Insidser E93, and may be I'll go for the 39008 '01 as it could fill a place in my roster as well as the facination of it's functions with MFX+
Apart from that, I'm reluctant to spend my hard earned on possibly indifferent performing Loks with three pole motors, and will fill out my collection with SDS models, the non sound examples where possible so I can fit a V4M4 ESU decoder. Wink
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by NZMarklinist
Offline kbvrod  
#50 Posted : 14 April 2014 20:11:48(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi all,
Well let me have the last word,.....LOL

In my M days I bought M loks and equipment.Then I discovered the IB,Viessmann 5211's,Peco switch motors,Titan transformers all worked well with the M stuff. I liked Roco and Piko because they made coaches and wagons that M (at the time) did not make.Then a couple loks from FL( BR 91 and BR 38 with wanner tender/AC/digital) nice and good runners,.....so even then I had choices.As we do today,in some ways.One can understand M having it's own system as it always has. I prefer to have a more open system so I can enjoy what others have to offer,...
So I go with DCC,I can chose a decoder that works best with a lok and -much- cheaper control system (NCE).Just MHO.

Yes Matt,I'll get to the TRIX/MS issue soon.BigGrin

Dr D ('ruining' M models since 1996!)
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