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Offline rhtastro  
#1 Posted : 05 October 2009 02:27:04(UTC)
rhtastro

United States   
Joined: 19/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2,835
Location: Northern California,
This may not be news to most on here but it has come to my attention that the following model train manufacturers have or soon will go out of business: Marklin, Faller, Roco, Fleishmann, Jouef, Lima and Rivarossi. So far, Vollmer is doing ok. I believe most if not all are European. Is the Euro train market disappearing? Hope not.

Bob
Robert's trains insured by Colt 45--Marklin Club of NorCal, Founder and Sole Member--- Robert's photos may be used as public domain-all copyrights waved
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent"-T.Jefferson
Offline kimballthurlow  
#2 Posted : 05 October 2009 04:33:56(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,764
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Bob,
Well Jouef, Lima and Rivarossi are just brand names of the Hornby company in the UK.
regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline TimR  
#3 Posted : 05 October 2009 04:36:35(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
I would put it down to these things;
- A saturated MRR market in Europe means 1 or 2 of these would probably go under.
- Declining customer base in general; unlikely to be reversible.
- The smaller base of customers also becoming more sophisticated (picky)
- Inability to refocus the growth to other markets; instead of relying on traditional bases
- Greater investments needed to keep afloat doesn't translate into increased market share
- Credit problems and huge reduction in European customer spending
Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline rhtastro  
#4 Posted : 05 October 2009 05:32:37(UTC)
rhtastro

United States   
Joined: 19/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2,835
Location: Northern California,
Kimball and Tim, maybe it all boils down to poor business management and practices. Those seem to be the major reasons that businesses fail in the US. They don't survey their markets and take care of them or find out what their customers want. Also, sometimes the products go through too many 3rd parties and the price gets above the market.

I think that is what has happened to some model RR products in the US. That's why Marklin just can't compete very well here. Also, of course, there's not much market for 3r here. But Trix should do well and doesn't. They are well thought of but just don't have much product for the locals.

Bob
Robert's trains insured by Colt 45--Marklin Club of NorCal, Founder and Sole Member--- Robert's photos may be used as public domain-all copyrights waved
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent"-T.Jefferson
Offline TimR  
#5 Posted : 05 October 2009 09:13:11(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
Management issues
.. might also be as these are all fundamentally quite traditional companies;
the mind set of the management teams of European MRR business is too "entrenched" to adapt to the changing market.

It's probably like Detroit auto manufacturers or the current newspaper industry; too many managers all grew up internally within the same monotonous industry - and thus lack the exposure or experience from other people who have had different skill sets, thinking method, and experience developed across various different industries (finance, FMCG, etc).

Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline Ian555  
#6 Posted : 05 October 2009 11:54:32(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,289
Location: Scotland
Hi all
In my opinion, for the youngsters of today a model train running
round and round a track is just not ""exciting" enough.
For the Hobby to survive we need a younger generation to be involved.
How do those companies manage that?
Ian
Offline Legless  
#7 Posted : 05 October 2009 14:07:23(UTC)
Legless

Australia   
Joined: 20/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 809
Location: Leopold, Victoria
Only time will tell! Smile
Legless
Era's 1 to 111,C track,k track
Offline RayF  
#8 Posted : 05 October 2009 14:23:59(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
With so many companies going out of business it would be unusual if the model railway companies were not affected.

I suspect that Marklin has a better chance than some of the others because of it's fine reputation.

I think the secret is to realise that the market today is not as big as it was, and production should be scaled back to a lower, more realistic level, to cater for the smaller group of die-hard modellers that remain.

Perhaps in the future trains will once again become popular with children and the hobby base will once again expand.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline river6109  
#9 Posted : 05 October 2009 14:56:54(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,875
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
rhtastro comment: maybe it all boils down to poor business management and practices.

Tim R. wrote: Management issues
.. might also be as these are all fundamentally quite traditional companies;
the mind set of the management teams of European MRR business is too "entrenched" to adapt to the changing market.

Poor business managment ?!
The modelrailway market is declining.
that is a fact.
How many manufacturers share the market volume ?
It is always easy to criticise or remark in hindsight what has gone wrong.
Yes, there have been bad or greedy management policies and takers out there.
As a whole most of them tried their best and had the best intentions.
Family businesses sometimes do not see eye to eye and this leads sometimes to a disgruntled and negative outcome.
A wrong business decision does'nt mean the business has a poor businees management.
Of course it would help if each person employed can input his or her experiences, talent, ideas, suggestions on an open table disgussion.

regards.,
John


https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline steventrain  
#10 Posted : 05 October 2009 16:36:53(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,695
Location: United Kingdom
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rhtastro
<br />This may not be news to most on here but it has come to my attention that the following model train manufacturers have or soon will go out of business: Marklin, Faller, Roco, Fleishmann, Jouef, Lima and Rivarossi. So far, Vollmer is doing ok. I believe most if not all are European. Is the Euro train market disappearing? Hope not.

Bob


Because of Euro currency put price goes up in UK.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline gachar001  
#11 Posted : 05 October 2009 17:22:11(UTC)
gachar001

India   
Joined: 29/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Chennai
I think one of the big problems is the lack of exposure to the younger market. I don't think the MRR industry is trying hard enough to woo the youngsters. This is key to the survival of the industry.
Video game manufacturers have massive advertising campaigns. I have not seen a single advertisement for MRR products in the mainstream media (atleast in the US. Not sure if this is the case in Europe).
My 13 year old nephew in India loves video games as well as model trains. This is because he has been exposed to model trains from an early age. Most of his friends have never seen a model train.
Cost is also a contributing factor. A parent can buy a Nintendo Wii for $200 and each game costs between $20 and $50. This is a small fraction of the cost of buying a starter set and then adding more locos, cars, tracks etc. MRR manufacturers need to have dedicated lines of cheaper products (like the hobby line from M*) for youngsters and spend a lot of money in promoting them.
Gautham
Atlanta, GA USA
Offline RayF  
#12 Posted : 05 October 2009 18:17:26(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by gachar001
<br />I think one of the big problems is the lack of exposure to the younger market. I don't think the MRR industry is trying hard enough to woo the youngsters. This is key to the survival of the industry.
Video game manufacturers have massive advertising campaigns. I have not seen a single advertisement for MRR products in the mainstream media (atleast in the US. Not sure if this is the case in Europe).
My 13 year old nephew in India loves video games as well as model trains. This is because he has been exposed to model trains from an early age. Most of his friends have never seen a model train.
Cost is also a contributing factor. A parent can buy a Nintendo Wii for $200 and each game costs between $20 and $50. This is a small fraction of the cost of buying a starter set and then adding more locos, cars, tracks etc. MRR manufacturers need to have dedicated lines of cheaper products (like the hobby line from M*) for youngsters and spend a lot of money in promoting them.


I totally agree!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Peterail  
#13 Posted : 05 October 2009 19:08:10(UTC)
Peterail


Joined: 22/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: ,
I hope Faller keep going. The hobby does not attract younger folk as said above and the few of us who are on this forum will not keep Marklin or anybody else in business. We think that because we are enthusiasts and buy lots of Marklin that we can help keep the business going but the fact is compared to Marklin overall sales we are just a drop in the ocean.
The Model business has to reach people who are not on forums like this and get them buying and this is where good management is required. The cost of locos etc is far greater than other toys for kids and this will have a big effect in the present conditions I expect. There are not that many manufacturers but together they produce more product than the market needs.
As there are more to add to Bobs list there can be few left who are not in trouble.
Interesting to see what happens to Marklin and if the can adapt to the generation to come.

Peter
Offline Hoffmann  
#14 Posted : 05 October 2009 19:47:14(UTC)
Hoffmann

Canada   
Joined: 25/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,106
Location: Guelph, Ontario


Hi all,

We have been writing about this for Years now.

Here is what I think is happening:

1) I do not think that Price is a Factor just look what a Wooden Thomas the Tank set cost ( it is way more then a Marklin Start-Set ).
2) Fact is that most Parents ( 30 something ) of today's Children have no clue or no time on how to put a Trainset together (Electrical, Building Kits etc.).
3) Go to a Trainshow and all you see is Granddad's with their Grandkid's and the Kids are just as excited today as they where 30 years ago.
4) It is easier to buy your Kids a Computer game then to help them building a Trainset ( todays Parents are way to busy with other things ).
5) If Marklin would have sold as many Start-Sets as Sid Meier sold the Computer Game "Railroad Tycoon" they would not have gone insolvent.
Everyone is always blaming the high Price of Marklin and others for the decline of Model Railroading. I sold a Marklin Start-set for CAD$ 99.- which beats any Computer Game Set-up by a long margin.

Martin
marklin-eh
Offline Maxi  
#15 Posted : 05 October 2009 20:06:40(UTC)
Maxi


Joined: 28/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 757
Location: Wawa, Ontario
In some cases I think families are settling on fewer gifts for their children and perhaps just one or two bigger ticket items such as a computer (laptop), snow machine, ATV. This leaves little room or imagination for a simple trainset which in the end really holds its value better than any of the above mentioned items. I guess we are more geared to a throw away society as opposed to the good old days of get a little and cherish it for as long as you can.
Offline mike c  
#16 Posted : 05 October 2009 21:50:24(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,241
Location: Montreal, QC
It all comes down to the $ (or Euro) as the case may be.

Kids may be as intrigued today by trains as they were a generation or two ago, but the sad reality is that building a model railroad layout requires rolling stock, decorations and time.
Setting up a Playstation or a Nintendo to a TV takes a minute. Many parents actually let the kids play on their computer games alone, ie the game or computer (or TV) becomes the babysitter.
Young children cannot operate a model train on their own. It requires adult supervision, which takes time away from our busy lives.
Add to that the fact that a locomotive and two coaches can cost upwards of 325 Euros ($600 in North America). You can get a whole gaming system for less than that.
How do you expect the model train world to compete?
It would be smart for model RR companies to develop toys for kids, so that they could go from Brio/Thomas to model trains, thereby maintaining the association, as well as working with computer/video game companies to develop model RR related games. Kids would love to play conductor, driver, etc but not at the same level of realism as most simulators. This would also help maintain interest in trains and maintain (or develop) brand awareness.
Times have changed. We will see if model trains can keep up. A specialty market will continue to exist, but the main companies are fighting for an ever smaller market. Mergers and takeovers may leave one or two viable companies, but they have to be more dynamic in their planning and have both a selection of highly detailed and basic models in two product lines to satisfy the greatest number of modellers.

Regards

Mike C
Offline Peterail  
#17 Posted : 05 October 2009 22:45:03(UTC)
Peterail


Joined: 22/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: ,
Agreed Mike. While there might be a few cheaper start sets about if you buy a CS2 and two locos with coaches and lighting some extra track turnouts with motors and a couple of signals the amount of cash is why many will just buy something else.
You can buy kids a computer ,television with video and a new bike for the same amount of cash and still have enough left for a day out.
The Marklin brand in Germany will mean something to parents but elsewhere only if the parents themsleves owned the models.
In the UK Hornby sell Thomas and all their other stuff each year to kids but when the kids get older very few will carry on with the hobby.
Parents take their kids to model rail shows as it is a good afternoon out but very few buy anything or show any further interest.
None of this really bothers me as I can enjoy the hobby now as do a lot of us older guys.
In the future there will be other interests for todays youngsters and although it wont be model rail they will find something else and it is up to firms to make what they want.
Offline rhtastro  
#18 Posted : 05 October 2009 23:15:44(UTC)
rhtastro

United States   
Joined: 19/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2,835
Location: Northern California,
In my own situation, I've involved both of my grandsons with Marklin. I started this by giving them complete sets when they were about 10-11. They built layouts that worked pretty well thanks to C-track. Gradually, I gave them more track and a second loco and more rolling stock. That worked for the older one until he reached 15-16. Now it competes with a lot of other things in his life. I suspect that someday he'll get back to it when he's a lot older. That seems to be the way it works. I hope there is still a Marklin around when that happens.

The really hot market in N. America is 2R. It's a lot cheaper than 3R and there is an amazing amount of product available all suitable for the local N. American market. And it works very well and looks pretty good too. They've got all the RR sounds and automatic equipment for just about any taste. Just pick up a Walthers catalog and you'll see what I mean. It's crammed full of everything for the model train enthusiast.

Marklin really missed the boat here. With the right production and capacity and maybe a plant in N. America and they probably wouldn't now be in bankruptcy. Too late now. Marklin never made a dent in the N. American market and probably never exceeded 1 or 2% of the total market. Mike C could probably give us the real number on this. But over the years they did make an amazingly large number of American oriented models and it was done quite well. However, I think most of that production was meant for the European market as mostly a novelty.

Marklin is great but somehow it never saw or appreciated the big world out there beyond Europe and that's where the real money was and is. There view was too limited in scope. Now they're suffering because of it. They can't survive on Europe alone. That time is over. I hope they make it but it's going to be a close call.

Bob

Robert's trains insured by Colt 45--Marklin Club of NorCal, Founder and Sole Member--- Robert's photos may be used as public domain-all copyrights waved
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent"-T.Jefferson
Offline RayF  
#19 Posted : 05 October 2009 23:17:09(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
There have always been cheap Marklin sets, locos and wagons, currently produced in the hobby range. You are not going to spend anywhere like the amount of cash being mentioned above for a simple set as a christmas gift.

An X-box or Playstation 3 will set you back between £200 to £300 pounds in the UK (or Gibraltar). For that amount of money you can get a Marklin starter set with a digital loco and a simple digital controller, and have enough left over for another loco and a few wagons.

I think there is a lack of awareness of the hobby in the public at large. we need to see more adverts on TV selling model trains, like the ones I remember from my childhood. Anyone remember the Triang "big big train" adverts?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#20 Posted : 05 October 2009 23:49:58(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,772
Location: New Zealand
To take a slightly contrary view, here is the text of the Editorial from the 2nd edition of the online MRR magazine Model Railroad Hobbyist (http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/).


"PUBLISHER’S EDITORIAL: Is the hobby dying?
Musings from the MRH founder
When was the last time you saw a model train set on the top of Santa’s list?
Hardly a week goes by on
model railroading online
forums without someone
posting an “Is the hobby dying?”
thread.
Those who post to these threads offer
various theories why the hobby isn’t
what it used to be:
Hobby shops are closing in everincreasing
numbers.
Model Railroader magazine’s
circulation has dropped by more
than 25% since the 1980s. In the
last two years, three well-known
second-tier model railroading
magazines have folded: Mainline
Modeler, Model Railroading
Magazine, and Railmodel Journal.
When you visit a convention, the
majority of the attendees are near
or at retirement age.
Train sets are passé compared to
all the modern toys and computer
games that capture kids’ attention.
Rail lines have been closing in
ever-increasing numbers since the
1970s. Today’s kids just don’t see
trains that much.
To all that, we say:
New online hobby ecommerce web
sites open every month.
Since the 1980s, scale-specific
and niche-specific magazines have
proliferated. Thanks to modern
internet technology, we could launch
our forever free mediaZine, Model
Railroad Hobbyist.
Demographics experts now tell us the
most recent generation born since
1985 is larger than the boomers -
that’s right, larger! Model railroad
events open to the public see record
numbers of families with children
attending. The general public appears
to still be very much in love with
model trains as a family outing.
Reuters has reported that the sales
of train sets at Christmas have
increased since 2005.
As one of the most energy-efficient
modes of transportation, the miles
of rail lines in the US are once again
growing! Experts in mass transit say
the interest among urban planners
in modern high speed rail travel has
never been higher.
With apologies to Mark Twain,
“The rumors of the death of model
railroading have been greatly
exaggerated.”
If you truly look at all the facts, I don’t
think you can say conclusively that the
hobby of model railroading is on the
way out. In fact, there’s more than a
little evidence that model trains are
making something of a comeback.
The supporters of the “hobby is dying”
theory quickly point out that train sets
no longer make the top of Santa’s list.
True enough – but I think model trains
were a fad toy of the late 50s and early
60s, in the same category as Davy
Crocket coon-skin caps and Roy Rogers
six shooters. While we can enjoy a fad
for as long as it lasts, you can’t consider
that “normal”.
No one seems to account for market
demographics in their thinking.
Marketing 101 says if your market is
larger, you’ll probably sell more stuff.
Conversely, if your market is smaller,
you’ll sell less.
If we look at the size of the various
generations, we’ll see that the baby
boomers generation (born 1945-1965)
was the largest generation in the last
century. And hey – what do you know!
As that generation came of age (the
1950s and 1960s), model railroading
enjoyed a golden era.
Generation X (born 1965-1985), is much
smaller than the Boomers. As Gen X
came of age in the late 70s and on into
the 90s, you would expect the sales of
model trains to drop.
Taking into account the fad component
of train sets in the mid-50s to mid-
60s, you’d expect the interest in model
trains to drop like a rock among the Gen
X’ers. And guess what: that’s just what
happened in the 70s and 80s.
Now enter Generation Y (born since
1985). Gen Y has eclipsed the boomers
as the largest US generation in history!
The oldest of the Gen Y’s are just now
starting families, buying homes, and
earning money.
As this groundswell of youngsters born
in the last 20 years passes through the
magical age of 8-12, you’d expect to see
the sales of train sets to be on the rise
again – and what do you know – that’s
just what Reuters tells us has been happening
since Christmas of 2005.
It’s just Marketing 101 – Gen X was way
smaller so you sold fewer train sets.
Gen Y is way larger so you sell more
train sets. It’s not rocket science, folks!
I don’t expect model trains to ever
again become the fad they were in 50s
and 60s. But I do think we can expect a
healthy growth in train set sales for the
next decade or so while this mass of
Gen Y youngsters comes of age.
In next issue’s editorial, I want to address
the Model Railroader circulation drop
off and some facts I think have been
overlooked. See you then!"

Offline gachar001  
#21 Posted : 06 October 2009 00:04:15(UTC)
gachar001

India   
Joined: 29/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Chennai
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rhtastro
<br />In my own situation, I've involved both of my grandsons with Marklin. I started this by giving them complete sets when they were about 10-11.

Now for the rest of their life they will have a big hole in their wallet spending on M* biggrinbiggrinbiggrin
Gautham
Atlanta, GA USA
Offline TimR  
#22 Posted : 06 October 2009 01:16:59(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
The reason why MRR market as a whole is in irreversible slow decline is really because nowadays, unlike 20 - 30 years ago; there are lots of alternative hobby to sink your money and time into, which are considerably more convenient.

Price is an issue, but it's not the biggest issue.

For instance, computer games is not exactly cheap - true price of each game is quite cheap, but overtime all the extra equipment you need (stereos, controller, online subscription etc), the number of games bought, and massive depreciation on all the hardware and software will add up.

Plus computer gamers often also have another side hobby; for instance, a "cheap" turbocharged car Smile, which probably add up the rest of their monthly budget.

Getting back to the convenience issue;
To really enjoy MRR - you really need to build a layout, scenery etc.

Many younger generation, whether in uni or chasing up career, are living truly mobile lifestyle. They rent flats, and don't even staying in one place, one city, or even one country for the whole year. This is all the primary points where MRR lose out, even if they have any interest in them.

There are lots of other hobbies that support their more mobile lifestyle.

As a result also; quite often only people who have truly settled down with a family would usually seriously considering this.
Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline Peterail  
#23 Posted : 06 October 2009 01:23:10(UTC)
Peterail


Joined: 22/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: ,
Problem is the kids cant spend the cash and it is only when they are older or retired that funds are available.
I take Rays point on the cheaper hobby stuff but there is not much of it and kids today want a CS2 to play with along with coaches that have lights and signals that stop trains.
The starter sets are great for getting into Marklin but it is then that the expense starts.
I spend three thousand pounds or so a year on Marklin but for many this is just not possible. When you add in kits and scenery it is even more.
In the UK Hornby is different. It is cheaper and the layouts very often have cardboard houses and stations etc. Track is very much cheaper and with Thomas etc they cater for kids of all ages. Enthusiasts here will build their own coaches etc and wagons can come in kit form fairly cheaply.
Have a look and see what it would cost to put lights into a rake of 6 Marklin coaches. Most of the folk I know with kids would just not spend that type of cash and it is only folk like me and others here on the forum that will.

Peter
Offline rhtastro  
#24 Posted : 06 October 2009 01:50:49(UTC)
rhtastro

United States   
Joined: 19/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2,835
Location: Northern California,
B'D, that reprint could all be true and I hope the later part is, however, it's all 2R over here, not Marklin. My closest Marklin dealer, 180 miles away sells 10 times as much 2R and it's priced at a third to half of Marklin's. Easy to guess why they sell so much 2R. There's a Big Boy, by who knows who, that looks equally as good as my Marklin and sells for a third of the price. It's got even more sound items than mine and runs as well. There you are.

It looks like European manufacturers just can't compete with the rest of the world anymore. They've gotten too expensive with their generally low productivity. And the quality ain't what it used to be. Too few workdays, too many vacations, inefficient plants and equipment and old and moribund management. Welcome to the 3rd world folks. I might add it is true in parts of my country too. You're not alone. Industries in the Western world were coasting along in the good times but in the not so good times they're failing in large numbers.

Bob
Robert's trains insured by Colt 45--Marklin Club of NorCal, Founder and Sole Member--- Robert's photos may be used as public domain-all copyrights waved
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent"-T.Jefferson
Offline Eurobahnfan  
#25 Posted : 06 October 2009 02:02:01(UTC)
Eurobahnfan

United States   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 431
Location: Stockton, CA
I think the hobby will survive no matter what. True, as pointed out by all of you, the younger generation seems to be looking elsewhere for activities to occupy their spare time. With our ever-increasing mobile lives, it's getting harder and harder to find the time for father and son, mother and daughter, or whole family activities, which is what railway modeling can be. I've seen the hobby grow quite a bit in the last 40 years and, while technology has made things easier, in terms of the hobby, it's also made things more expensive. Most folks don't have the disposable income this hobby requires and, as one of them, I find myself purchasing older items made before the digital decoders and sound effects came along: Think pre-war Lionel with groaning, open frame motors, the smell of ozone, and the sound of an air whistle in the tender.

I don't think Maerklin will ever disappear. However, like Lionel here in the U.S., they may find themselves purchased and re-purchased quite a few times before becoming somewhat of a competitor again. By that time, they may well be Maerklin in name only, but the name will be there. As for Faller and the others, those names may disappear altogether, with the products absorbed into a competitor's lineup bearing a new brand name. (Lionel did much the same when they bought up the remaining Ives product line early on in their history.)

I've purchased my nephew, niece and daughter train sets which, while they may outgrow them, they'll always be around for another generation. And with that in mind, we can all hope the hobby will always find new life. In terms of Maerklin, I agree that cheaper starter sets are key... and not just in HO. I was saddened to see the MAXI line disappear a few years ago. Like my pre-war Lionel, it was big, flashy, full of color and METAL!!! If that alone doesn't stir a young one's imagination, I don't know what will.

A final thought: Each year, over the Thanksgiving weekend, the California State Railway Museum in Sacramento hosts an event called "Traintime with Santa." One of the highlights -- next to riding a train -- is visiting the number of layouts on display throughout the museum, operated by several local railway model clubs. Kids who may play with computers and X Boxes are suddenly amazed and, yes, interested. I hear more than one parent fielding questions from the kids about how they want one for Christmas... and nothing else! We can only hope they remain interested well past Christmas morning.

(BTW: My wife, daughter, and I will finally commence building a new Marklin layout in the spring for all those digital items I purchased while living in Europe. Smile )

Steve
Offline Rud  
#26 Posted : 06 October 2009 02:32:04(UTC)
Rud


Joined: 08/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 65
Location: Kalundborg Denmark
"The biggest difference between boys and men is the pricetag on their toys".
Maybe a part of the problem lies within ourselves. We demand more and more af our models. In this forum we have discussed whether or not Märklin should make cars in the correct scale. We don´t want Märklin to be made in China and I could go on. What do we get in return for our demands? Greatlooking and advanced models, but also models that are delicate and somehow fragile with complex electronics and above all, much much costlier. I´ll run my trains a couple of times a year and you know what? I have to read the MANUAL whenever I use my 6021 or MS. Try to connect a Nintendo Wii and 90% of the worlds population, male or female over 10 years, will have it up and running in about 15 minutes. I know many of you will disagree, I had the discussion with my Märklin pusher the other day, and he did. But he uses his CS2´s every day and that makes a hell of a difference. I tend to agree with those people who argue that analog Märklin are the more advanced system. It´s certainly allmost 100% failsafe. Connect the wires wrong? Just reconnect them and you haven´t burnt your decoder or whatever. It´s as simple to build and run a layout as connecting a Wii. But that´s just my oppinion. I´ll probably buy the new CS2 with DCC anyway. Why? Because I dont want to be restricted in my playing and because I can afford it.
But then again. Who says that it is as bad as Bob claims. Was´nt it Goofy who, in another topic, listed 6 or 7 manufacturers of digital systems for controlling a model railroad?

Rud
Offline TimR  
#27 Posted : 06 October 2009 02:35:28(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
Here's another thing that also "competes" with current business of MRR manufacturers and helped to reduce their business to a certain degree;

<u>Second hand items</u> helped by the evil <u>eBay</u>

This is probably overlooked as a threat to the current Marklin business. But look at the market value of the combined stocks of second hand sellers around the world. Altogether second hand items potentially have over 20 or 30 times the number of items that Marklin sells every year.

I think in some ways; companies like Marklin had become the victim of their own success.

I'm sure there are many "rebels" among us who reject Marklin's latest offering and prefer instead to frequent eBay for older models that they no longer made for whatever reasons.
That also includes many of us who prefer to buy tracks at frequently discounted price from these online auction sites - which further steal those business away from Marklin.

For every Euros spent in second hand items is a Euro that would not be spent into mother M*'s pocket.
Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline rhtastro  
#28 Posted : 06 October 2009 03:15:38(UTC)
rhtastro

United States   
Joined: 19/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2,835
Location: Northern California,
Tim, you're right, I bought a lot of rolling stock on eBay because it was the only place I could get it. Much was made in the 90's and some earlier. But someone purchased it from Marklin originally.

Most of my locos were from mailorder dealers in the US bought after 2002. A couple from a local dealer. They are all digital and I like that since they all work well with my 6021 or ms. Good sound and good running characteristics, couldn't be better. A happy Marklin customer and I hope they can stay around in some form or another for my grandsons.

Bob
Robert's trains insured by Colt 45--Marklin Club of NorCal, Founder and Sole Member--- Robert's photos may be used as public domain-all copyrights waved
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent"-T.Jefferson
Offline river6109  
#29 Posted : 06 October 2009 04:57:15(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,875
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
As much as we condemn ebay it has played an important role of keeping marklin in business.
My conclusion was: how can marklin make money with all these cheap startersets compared with the price of a single loco ?
1.) they sold a lot of them
2.) the middle man got his or her share of breaking up the starterset and selling individual parts cheaper than the list price
3.) Than the loco was taken apart aswell and sold off with individual parts.

The exposure that ebay provides, has, in my opinion helped marklin to survive but gave collectors little comfort of securing their investment.

The "trend" today is not modeltrains but computergames etc. etc.
It does'nt matter what marklin will produce in future, the modelltrain market will shrink even more.
Marklin may stay in business by introducing games for children but these gadgets may have nothing to do with trains.

cheaper prices have an impact all over the world, regardless of the product but again it will be a selected market for modeltrain enthusiasts.

regards.,
John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline drstapes  
#30 Posted : 06 October 2009 05:23:12(UTC)
drstapes

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 764
Location: Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk
In the UK and from what I have read here, in most other Countries outside Europe, there are few if any marklin shops. These shops where they exist have to charge very high prices, no wonder Marklin is dying. Hornby have flourished by outsourcing to China. After initial quality problems they have done very well. To re-establish a good turnover Marklin should do the same and sell Primex or Hobby low cost items through the big supermarkets and toy super stores. This would give Marklin widespread public recognition. This should be linked to a new computer system which could have an on line catalogue of the more upmarket items which we all know and love which could be ordered online and delivered to shop or home within 2 weeks of ordering. An Amazon of Marklin trains if you like. In the end I think Marklin will survive because of the inherent reiability and flexibility of the 3 rail AC system. 2 rail has done so well because of price,availability and better model selection tailored to specific Countries.
Regards

Geoff (UK)

marklin HO from the 50's and 60's
Offline TimR  
#31 Posted : 06 October 2009 06:11:55(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by river6109
<br />As much as we condemn ebay it has played an important role of keeping marklin in business.

...
The exposure that ebay provides, has, in my opinion helped marklin to survive but gave collectors little comfort of securing their investment.


Noone really condemning eBay, John...

Just mentioning that in this case, it is just an enabler in the greater impact of the flood of second hand items towards sales of new items (upon which manufacturers rely on).

It's really a double edged sword for Marklin - personally I think it's great for customers. I used trademe website (eBay equivalent in NZ) to source as much as 30% of my rolling stocks - second hand items that are cheaper than buying Marklin's new stuff.

The ever shrinking Marklin dealer network and ever higher price (overseas) of course will further exacerbate the problems for M* traditional sales channels - and generally point to a condition that greatly favor online shops or eBay.

For Marklin's overall sales strategy; it's either use it and you got a problem, OR you don't and hardly anyone will buy your products.
Any clearer strategy / business model by Marklin taking into account of the impact of this ongoing trend will probably beneficial to the company.



Probably to expand on this a bit further;
The impact of the Internet to Marklin or other European MRR manufacturers is not just confined to eBay.

Remember the compact Sinus fiasco in 2006?

News spread like wildfire from all the Marklin online forums.. though probably only a small minority of buyers recognize the problems; it became a serious PR disaster for Marklin.
Despite their official position ("nothing's wrong"), Marklin was obviously worried enough by this development that in the following year, they felt that it was necessary to create a marketing exercise to relaunch the compact Sinus motor as the new Soft Drive Sinus.

The point is, like or not, the evolution of the Internet from eBay or the greater exchange of information allowed like in this forum, would probably also have greater impact in the future of Marklin than they or even any of us realized.
Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline Legless  
#32 Posted : 06 October 2009 13:37:04(UTC)
Legless

Australia   
Joined: 20/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 809
Location: Leopold, Victoria
A quarter of what I have brought has been from e-bay, one new little loco brought for a shop and the rest brand new from the web.

We need more Marklin outlets and the products to be reliable.
Legless
Era's 1 to 111,C track,k track
Offline Peterail  
#33 Posted : 06 October 2009 14:31:50(UTC)
Peterail


Joined: 22/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: ,
While talking about kids coming into the hobby it appears that they spend a lot of time on their computers on forums and talking to each other. So where are the kids on this forum? I dont know our average but I reckon it will be pretty high and who under 18 is contributing. The current future of Marklin lies with us older guys buying for ourselves (sometimes as presents for the kids so we can play)

Peter
Offline river6109  
#34 Posted : 06 October 2009 14:35:48(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,875
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by TimR
<br />
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by river6109
<br />As much as we condemn ebay it has played an important role of keeping marklin in business.

...
The exposure that ebay provides, has, in my opinion helped marklin to survive but gave collectors little comfort of securing their investment.


Noone really condemning eBay, John...

Just mentioning that in this case, it is just an enabler in the greater impact of the flood of second hand items towards sales of new items (upon which manufacturers rely on).

It's really a double edged sword for Marklin - personally I think it's great for customers. I used trademe website (eBay equivalent in NZ) to source as much as 30% of my rolling stocks - second hand items that are cheaper than buying Marklin's new stuff.

The ever shrinking Marklin dealer network and ever higher price (overseas) of course will further exacerbate the problems for M* traditional sales channels - and generally point to a condition that greatly favor online shops or eBay.

For Marklin's overall sales strategy; it's either use it and you got a problem, OR you don't and hardly anyone will buy your products.
Any clearer strategy / business model by Marklin taking into account of the impact of this ongoing trend will probably beneficial to the company.



Probably to expand on this a bit further;
The impact of the Internet to Marklin or other European MRR manufacturers is not just confined to eBay.

Remember the compact Sinus fiasco in 2006?

News spread like wildfire from all the Marklin online forums.. though probably only a small minority of buyers recognize the problems; it became a serious PR disaster for Marklin.
Despite their official position ("nothing's wrong"), Marklin was obviously worried enough by this development that in the following year, they felt that it was necessary to create a marketing exercise to relaunch the compact Sinus motor as the new Soft Drive Sinus.

The point is, like or not, the evolution of the Internet from eBay or the greater exchange of information allowed like in this forum, would probably also have greater impact in the future of Marklin than they or even any of us realized.

I personally do not support ebay anymore.
It has been very good for buyers but a disaster for sellers.
German ebay, you can forget posting anything "Buy now" unless it is very cheap.
And if you post it via bidding, anything could happen.

Your comments are very real.

regards.,
John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline mike c  
#35 Posted : 07 October 2009 01:34:23(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,241
Location: Montreal, QC
Re: eBay

The items that were (and are) listed on eBay would have ended up at swap meets, train shows and the used bins at hobby shops. If people are getting out of the hobby, changing focus or other aspects, their excess items will still get out there. What eBay did was to bring these products to worldwide attention, furthering Maerklin's reputation as a collectable.

My only problem with eBay is the potential for the item to come from questionable sources. As much as possible, I try, when buying a new item, to make sure that the seller is an authorized dealer.

I don't have the information to state whether eBay has deprived Maerklin (and other companies) of new sales as people buy and trade older items. I think that in the long run, it has helped Maerklin, and it has helped us by forcing some dealers to lower their prices.

The only downside I can see to eBay and the web in general is that people browse in Shops and then buy the same item on the net for less. A physical shop cannot hold items in stock if they are not selling, and this is where the net has likely hurt the local dealer.

Does it also happen in Europe where people check out the local shop and then go home and order the item from discount dealers. How do you feel about that?

Regards

Mike C
Offline TimR  
#36 Posted : 07 October 2009 01:46:41(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Peterail
<br />While talking about kids coming into the hobby it appears that they spend a lot of time on their computers on forums and talking to each other. So where are the kids on this forum? I dont know our average but I reckon it will be pretty high and who under 18 is contributing. The current future of Marklin lies with us older guys buying for ourselves (sometimes as presents for the kids so we can play)

Peter


Reminds me of an interview by DW-TV with a Marklin dealer in Goppingen;
took place during the chaos following M*'s bankrupcy protection;

"...the typical Marklin customer is male and over 40. The teenagers today are more into computer games. (the dealer) don't think it'll die out, as once they got older, they might come back to MRR."

Yes, the market is getting smaller every minute...
Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline cyberbeast41  
#37 Posted : 07 October 2009 12:13:46(UTC)
cyberbeast41


Joined: 14/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 83
Location: ,
Well, the main reason is the price. Enough examples in previous posts.
Another problem is room.
Not everyone has enough free space to build a permanent track. Space becomes available when one of the children leaves the house. I think this partly explains why modelrailroaders are often older.
Offline RayF  
#38 Posted : 07 October 2009 12:43:32(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I think you need to distinguish between a model railway and a train set.

When I was a child, very few people I knew had a complete model railway, but everyone had a train set. When I went to my friend's or they came to my house to play, we would take out the train set, set it up, and play with it.

This is the big difference today. There are probably as many model railways as there were 30 or 40 years ago, but very few children get a train set.

I believe the way forward would be for Marklin and others to make good advertising campains in the run-up to Christmas showing how "cool" playing with trains can be.

When today's children get to age 40 and they can afford a model railway they need to remember having played with trains in their childhood.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline nevw  
#39 Posted : 07 October 2009 12:48:51(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Ray ,
How true,
I have some home help and the woman on her late 30's early 40's loves model trains.
As a youngster she was exposed to trains running around an oval.

When she come to our house each week she is interested in how we are progressing. She has never owned a train set but in a few weeks I am going to try to get her into the hobby via a "Train Set"
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline john black  
#40 Posted : 07 October 2009 14:09:41(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Aha. Does yer wife know ... biggrin
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide

Offline river6109  
#41 Posted : 07 October 2009 14:39:37(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,875
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Very young children have to be introduced to any hobby, craft, nature, healthy eating or to be incouraged to learn a musical instrument or an other languages.
when they reach teen age, it's most the time too late.
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline TimR  
#42 Posted : 07 October 2009 14:39:54(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by cyberbeast41
<br />Well, the main reason is the price.

Remember also that when you are buying computer games, again there are easier access to "enablers" that attract younger generation; finance deals, buy-back deals, etc...
The industry realize that this is a cutthroat business; its whole business structure from developer, distributor, and sellers are optimized to adopt an ever aggressive strategies.

Whereas the more traditional business structure of Marklin dealership meant it's uncomprimisingly, either cash or credit card (or Paypal). Look at the terms of credits between Marklin and their various dealers (as had been posted here before)...

I think most people will choose what they can get more easily.. doesn't necessarily mean it would had been the hobby had to had the lowest price.

MRR sounds too much like cash at front, and sounds too expensive.
In some ways this is correct.
Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#43 Posted : 07 October 2009 14:52:01(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,772
Location: New Zealand
Well at the end of the day, when you speak to dealers here in NZ about why they do not stock Marklin, basically it is because it is too expensive, and stock takes too long to come from the factory to NZ. Others have said similar things apply in their own country. As Tim suggests, Mother M will need to revise their sales strategy if they want to survive. What has worked for the last 150 years probably is not going to work for the next 150. That probably means M having to look further abroad than just Germany and Europe.

Lets face it, there are 1.2 billion consumers in China and another 1+ billion in India. More than 3 times the number of Europe and the US combined. Image if M could get their fingers in those pies!
Offline frankie  
#44 Posted : 07 October 2009 14:56:14(UTC)
frankie


Joined: 27/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 692
Location: Italy
I think modular layouts and clubs can play a role in this thing, you don't have to put up a layout and you can just start with a loco and some wagons, sharing the track and rolling stock with others.
May be shops should organize regular meetings finding a location, which could be also a selling occasion, like Tupperware meetings.
Alessandro
I have a CS1 Reloaded!
Offline nevw  
#45 Posted : 08 October 2009 02:34:08(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by john black
<br />Aha. Does yer wife know ... biggrin


Oh yes. the FD is always keen to show her current progress, Slow but we are getting there.

NN Cool[:p]
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline john black  
#46 Posted : 08 October 2009 02:40:53(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Smile[:p][^]
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide

Offline river6109  
#47 Posted : 08 October 2009 03:16:07(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,875
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bigdaddynz
<br />Well at the end of the day, when you speak to dealers here in NZ about why they do not stock Marklin, basically it is because it is too expensive, and stock takes too long to come from the factory to NZ. Others have said similar things apply in their own country. As Tim suggests, Mother M will need to revise their sales strategy if they want to survive. What has worked for the last 150 years probably is not going to work for the next 150. That probably means M having to look further abroad than just Germany and Europe.

Lets face it, there are 1.2 billion consumers in China and another 1+ billion in India. More than 3 times the number of Europe and the US combined. Image if M could get their fingers in those pies!

It is odd, when german exports are keeping the country afloat and yet Märklin has never taken the opportunity.
75% of german exports go within Europe, 10% to USA, 12% Asia, 1% Austr/Oceanic, 2% Africa.
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline kimballthurlow  
#48 Posted : 08 October 2009 05:34:30(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,764
Location: Brisbane, Australia
John, you speak of opportunities for Märklin.

There is certainly a huge potential for any supplier, to service India and China.
However, the opportunity is only there for those who have <u>capacity</u>.
In order for Märklin to take advantage of just one of those markets, would it need to:
1. establish new channels for marketing?
2. double, triple, or quadruple their manufacuring capacity?
3. create new teams able to research railroads in those countries?
4. double, triple, or quadruple the size of their buildings?

Any one of the above takes new investment, ie. new money.
regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline jeehring  
#49 Posted : 08 October 2009 06:01:22(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
imo train models never will disappear.
Strong Brands with strong brand image will stay...(Marklin,... &...&...)

Roco seems to be not in good position...a lack of identity : many other small manufacturers ( half a dozen of persons + subcontractors) are doing same type of products...competition could be rude between some of them
Offline TimR  
#50 Posted : 08 October 2009 06:39:26(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
I heard but can't confirm that models as advanced as the latest gen of steamers with SDS can be built outside Germany now.

If so, ideally what I'd like to see is that whatever Marklin could made completely outside Germany; whether in China or Hungary - can be shipped directly from factory to dealers around the world on a real just-in-time basis. So each production centre can better service a specific market.

I think currently all items built outside Germany have to be sent back to Goppingen first before redistribution to dealers - which partly accounts for many late items and for overseas dealers; higher costs and even longer wait times.

This is the similar kind of structure used by many other industries.
Personally I think even this kind of structure is too advanced for Marklin way of thinking.
Now collecting C-Sine models.
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