Hi Bob,
Well Jouef, Lima and Rivarossi are just brand names of the Hornby company in the UK.
regards
Kimball

Kimball and Tim, maybe it all boils down to poor business management and practices. Those seem to be the major reasons that businesses fail in the US. They don't survey their markets and take care of them or find out what their customers want. Also, sometimes the products go through too many 3rd parties and the price gets above the market.

I think that is what has happened to some model RR products in the US. That's why Marklin just can't compete very well here. Also, of course, there's not much market for 3r here. But Trix should do well and doesn't. They are well thought of but just don't have much product for the locals.

Bob

Hi all
In my opinion, for the youngsters of today a model train running
round and round a track is just not ""exciting" enough.
For the Hobby to survive we need a younger generation to be involved.
How do those companies manage that?
Ian

With so many companies going out of business it would be unusual if the model railway companies were not affected.

I suspect that Marklin has a better chance than some of the others because of it's fine reputation.

I think the secret is to realise that the market today is not as big as it was, and production should be scaled back to a lower, more realistic level, to cater for the smaller group of die-hard modellers that remain.

Perhaps in the future trains will once again become popular with children and the hobby base will once again expand.

Because of Euro currency put price goes up in UK.

I totally agree!

Hi all,

We have been writing about this for Years now.

Here is what I think is happening:

1) I do not think that Price is a Factor just look what a Wooden Thomas the Tank set cost ( it is way more then a Marklin Start-Set ).
2) Fact is that most Parents ( 30 something ) of today's Children have no clue or no time on how to put a Trainset together (Electrical, Building Kits etc.).
3) Go to a Trainshow and all you see is Granddad's with their Grandkid's and the Kids are just as excited today as they where 30 years ago.
4) It is easier to buy your Kids a Computer game then to help them building a Trainset ( todays Parents are way to busy with other things ).
5) If Marklin would have sold as many Start-Sets as Sid Meier sold the Computer Game "Railroad Tycoon" they would not have gone insolvent.
Everyone is always blaming the high Price of Marklin and others for the decline of Model Railroading. I sold a Marklin Start-set for CAD$ 99.- which beats any Computer Game Set-up by a long margin.

Martin

It all comes down to the $ (or Euro) as the case may be.

Kids may be as intrigued today by trains as they were a generation or two ago, but the sad reality is that building a model railroad layout requires rolling stock, decorations and time.
Setting up a Playstation or a Nintendo to a TV takes a minute. Many parents actually let the kids play on their computer games alone, ie the game or computer (or TV) becomes the babysitter.
Young children cannot operate a model train on their own. It requires adult supervision, which takes time away from our busy lives.
Add to that the fact that a locomotive and two coaches can cost upwards of 325 Euros ($600 in North America). You can get a whole gaming system for less than that.
How do you expect the model train world to compete?
It would be smart for model RR companies to develop toys for kids, so that they could go from Brio/Thomas to model trains, thereby maintaining the association, as well as working with computer/video game companies to develop model RR related games. Kids would love to play conductor, driver, etc but not at the same level of realism as most simulators. This would also help maintain interest in trains and maintain (or develop) brand awareness.
Times have changed. We will see if model trains can keep up. A specialty market will continue to exist, but the main companies are fighting for an ever smaller market. Mergers and takeovers may leave one or two viable companies, but they have to be more dynamic in their planning and have both a selection of highly detailed and basic models in two product lines to satisfy the greatest number of modellers.

Regards

Mike C

In my own situation, I've involved both of my grandsons with Marklin. I started this by giving them complete sets when they were about 10-11. They built layouts that worked pretty well thanks to C-track. Gradually, I gave them more track and a second loco and more rolling stock. That worked for the older one until he reached 15-16. Now it competes with a lot of other things in his life. I suspect that someday he'll get back to it when he's a lot older. That seems to be the way it works. I hope there is still a Marklin around when that happens.

The really hot market in N. America is 2R. It's a lot cheaper than 3R and there is an amazing amount of product available all suitable for the local N. American market. And it works very well and looks pretty good too. They've got all the RR sounds and automatic equipment for just about any taste. Just pick up a Walthers catalog and you'll see what I mean. It's crammed full of everything for the model train enthusiast.

Marklin really missed the boat here. With the right production and capacity and maybe a plant in N. America and they probably wouldn't now be in bankruptcy. Too late now. Marklin never made a dent in the N. American market and probably never exceeded 1 or 2% of the total market. Mike C could probably give us the real number on this. But over the years they did make an amazingly large number of American oriented models and it was done quite well. However, I think most of that production was meant for the European market as mostly a novelty.

Marklin is great but somehow it never saw or appreciated the big world out there beyond Europe and that's where the real money was and is. There view was too limited in scope. Now they're suffering because of it. They can't survive on Europe alone. That time is over. I hope they make it but it's going to be a close call.

Bob

To take a slightly contrary view, here is the text of the Editorial from the 2nd edition of the online MRR magazine Model Railroad Hobbyist (http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/).


"PUBLISHER’S EDITORIAL: Is the hobby dying?
Musings from the MRH founder
When was the last time you saw a model train set on the top of Santa’s list?
Hardly a week goes by on
model railroading online
forums without someone
posting an “Is the hobby dying?”
thread.
Those who post to these threads offer
various theories why the hobby isn’t
what it used to be:
Hobby shops are closing in everincreasing
numbers.
Model Railroader magazine’s
circulation has dropped by more
than 25% since the 1980s. In the
last two years, three well-known
second-tier model railroading
magazines have folded: Mainline
Modeler, Model Railroading
Magazine, and Railmodel Journal.
When you visit a convention, the
majority of the attendees are near
or at retirement age.
Train sets are passé compared to
all the modern toys and computer
games that capture kids’ attention.
Rail lines have been closing in
ever-increasing numbers since the
1970s. Today’s kids just don’t see
trains that much.
To all that, we say:
New online hobby ecommerce web
sites open every month.
Since the 1980s, scale-specific
and niche-specific magazines have
proliferated. Thanks to modern
internet technology, we could launch
our forever free mediaZine, Model
Railroad Hobbyist.
Demographics experts now tell us the
most recent generation born since
1985 is larger than the boomers -
that’s right, larger! Model railroad
events open to the public see record
numbers of families with children
attending. The general public appears
to still be very much in love with
model trains as a family outing.
Reuters has reported that the sales
of train sets at Christmas have
increased since 2005.
As one of the most energy-efficient
modes of transportation, the miles
of rail lines in the US are once again
growing! Experts in mass transit say
the interest among urban planners
in modern high speed rail travel has
never been higher.
With apologies to Mark Twain,
“The rumors of the death of model
railroading have been greatly
exaggerated.”
If you truly look at all the facts, I don’t
think you can say conclusively that the
hobby of model railroading is on the
way out. In fact, there’s more than a
little evidence that model trains are
making something of a comeback.
The supporters of the “hobby is dying”
theory quickly point out that train sets
no longer make the top of Santa’s list.
True enough – but I think model trains
were a fad toy of the late 50s and early
60s, in the same category as Davy
Crocket coon-skin caps and Roy Rogers
six shooters. While we can enjoy a fad
for as long as it lasts, you can’t consider
that “normal”.
No one seems to account for market
demographics in their thinking.
Marketing 101 says if your market is
larger, you’ll probably sell more stuff.
Conversely, if your market is smaller,
you’ll sell less.
If we look at the size of the various
generations, we’ll see that the baby
boomers generation (born 1945-1965)
was the largest generation in the last
century. And hey – what do you know!
As that generation came of age (the
1950s and 1960s), model railroading
enjoyed a golden era.
Generation X (born 1965-1985), is much
smaller than the Boomers. As Gen X
came of age in the late 70s and on into
the 90s, you would expect the sales of
model trains to drop.
Taking into account the fad component
of train sets in the mid-50s to mid-
60s, you’d expect the interest in model
trains to drop like a rock among the Gen
X’ers. And guess what: that’s just what
happened in the 70s and 80s.
Now enter Generation Y (born since
1985). Gen Y has eclipsed the boomers
as the largest US generation in history!
The oldest of the Gen Y’s are just now
starting families, buying homes, and
earning money.
As this groundswell of youngsters born
in the last 20 years passes through the
magical age of 8-12, you’d expect to see
the sales of train sets to be on the rise
again – and what do you know – that’s
just what Reuters tells us has been happening
since Christmas of 2005.
It’s just Marketing 101 – Gen X was way
smaller so you sold fewer train sets.
Gen Y is way larger so you sell more
train sets. It’s not rocket science, folks!
I don’t expect model trains to ever
again become the fad they were in 50s
and 60s. But I do think we can expect a
healthy growth in train set sales for the
next decade or so while this mass of
Gen Y youngsters comes of age.
In next issue’s editorial, I want to address
the Model Railroader circulation drop
off and some facts I think have been
overlooked. See you then!"

The reason why MRR market as a whole is in irreversible slow decline is really because nowadays, unlike 20 - 30 years ago; there are lots of alternative hobby to sink your money and time into, which are considerably more convenient.

Price is an issue, but it's not the biggest issue.

For instance, computer games is not exactly cheap - true price of each game is quite cheap, but overtime all the extra equipment you need (stereos, controller, online subscription etc), the number of games bought, and massive depreciation on all the hardware and software will add up.

Plus computer gamers often also have another side hobby; for instance, a "cheap" turbocharged car , which probably add up the rest of their monthly budget.

Getting back to the convenience issue;
To really enjoy MRR - you really need to build a layout, scenery etc.

Many younger generation, whether in uni or chasing up career, are living truly mobile lifestyle. They rent flats, and don't even staying in one place, one city, or even one country for the whole year. This is all the primary points where MRR lose out, even if they have any interest in them.

There are lots of other hobbies that support their more mobile lifestyle.

As a result also; quite often only people who have truly settled down with a family would usually seriously considering this.

B'D, that reprint could all be true and I hope the later part is, however, it's all 2R over here, not Marklin. My closest Marklin dealer, 180 miles away sells 10 times as much 2R and it's priced at a third to half of Marklin's. Easy to guess why they sell so much 2R. There's a Big Boy, by who knows who, that looks equally as good as my Marklin and sells for a third of the price. It's got even more sound items than mine and runs as well. There you are.

It looks like European manufacturers just can't compete with the rest of the world anymore. They've gotten too expensive with their generally low productivity. And the quality ain't what it used to be. Too few workdays, too many vacations, inefficient plants and equipment and old and moribund management. Welcome to the 3rd world folks. I might add it is true in parts of my country too. You're not alone. Industries in the Western world were coasting along in the good times but in the not so good times they're failing in large numbers.

Bob

"The biggest difference between boys and men is the pricetag on their toys".
Maybe a part of the problem lies within ourselves. We demand more and more af our models. In this forum we have discussed whether or not Märklin should make cars in the correct scale. We don´t want Märklin to be made in China and I could go on. What do we get in return for our demands? Greatlooking and advanced models, but also models that are delicate and somehow fragile with complex electronics and above all, much much costlier. I´ll run my trains a couple of times a year and you know what? I have to read the MANUAL whenever I use my 6021 or MS. Try to connect a Nintendo Wii and 90% of the worlds population, male or female over 10 years, will have it up and running in about 15 minutes. I know many of you will disagree, I had the discussion with my Märklin pusher the other day, and he did. But he uses his CS2´s every day and that makes a hell of a difference. I tend to agree with those people who argue that analog Märklin are the more advanced system. It´s certainly allmost 100% failsafe. Connect the wires wrong? Just reconnect them and you haven´t burnt your decoder or whatever. It´s as simple to build and run a layout as connecting a Wii. But that´s just my oppinion. I´ll probably buy the new CS2 with DCC anyway. Why? Because I dont want to be restricted in my playing and because I can afford it.
But then again. Who says that it is as bad as Bob claims. Was´nt it Goofy who, in another topic, listed 6 or 7 manufacturers of digital systems for controlling a model railroad?

Tim, you're right, I bought a lot of rolling stock on eBay because it was the only place I could get it. Much was made in the 90's and some earlier. But someone purchased it from Marklin originally.

Most of my locos were from mailorder dealers in the US bought after 2002. A couple from a local dealer. They are all digital and I like that since they all work well with my 6021 or ms. Good sound and good running characteristics, couldn't be better. A happy Marklin customer and I hope they can stay around in some form or another for my grandsons.

Bob

In the UK and from what I have read here, in most other Countries outside Europe, there are few if any marklin shops. These shops where they exist have to charge very high prices, no wonder Marklin is dying. Hornby have flourished by outsourcing to China. After initial quality problems they have done very well. To re-establish a good turnover Marklin should do the same and sell Primex or Hobby low cost items through the big supermarkets and toy super stores. This would give Marklin widespread public recognition. This should be linked to a new computer system which could have an on line catalogue of the more upmarket items which we all know and love which could be ordered online and delivered to shop or home within 2 weeks of ordering. An Amazon of Marklin trains if you like. In the end I think Marklin will survive because of the inherent reiability and flexibility of the 3 rail AC system. 2 rail has done so well because of price,availability and better model selection tailored to specific Countries.

A quarter of what I have brought has been from e-bay, one new little loco brought for a shop and the rest brand new from the web.

We need more Marklin outlets and the products to be reliable.

I personally do not support ebay anymore.
It has been very good for buyers but a disaster for sellers.
German ebay, you can forget posting anything "Buy now" unless it is very cheap.
And if you post it via bidding, anything could happen.

Your comments are very real.

regards.,
John

Reminds me of an interview by DW-TV with a Marklin dealer in Goppingen;
took place during the chaos following M*'s bankrupcy protection;

"...the typical Marklin customer is male and over 40. The teenagers today are more into computer games. (the dealer) don't think it'll die out, as once they got older, they might come back to MRR."

Yes, the market is getting smaller every minute...

I think you need to distinguish between a model railway and a train set.

When I was a child, very few people I knew had a complete model railway, but everyone had a train set. When I went to my friend's or they came to my house to play, we would take out the train set, set it up, and play with it.

This is the big difference today. There are probably as many model railways as there were 30 or 40 years ago, but very few children get a train set.

I believe the way forward would be for Marklin and others to make good advertising campains in the run-up to Christmas showing how "cool" playing with trains can be.

When today's children get to age 40 and they can afford a model railway they need to remember having played with trains in their childhood.

Aha. Does yer wife know ...

Remember also that when you are buying computer games, again there are easier access to "enablers" that attract younger generation; finance deals, buy-back deals, etc...
The industry realize that this is a cutthroat business; its whole business structure from developer, distributor, and sellers are optimized to adopt an ever aggressive strategies.

Whereas the more traditional business structure of Marklin dealership meant it's uncomprimisingly, either cash or credit card (or Paypal). Look at the terms of credits between Marklin and their various dealers (as had been posted here before)...

I think most people will choose what they can get more easily.. doesn't necessarily mean it would had been the hobby had to had the lowest price.

MRR sounds too much like cash at front, and sounds too expensive.
In some ways this is correct.

I think modular layouts and clubs can play a role in this thing, you don't have to put up a layout and you can just start with a loco and some wagons, sharing the track and rolling stock with others.
May be shops should organize regular meetings finding a location, which could be also a selling occasion, like Tupperware meetings.

[:p][^]

John, you speak of opportunities for Märklin.

There is certainly a huge potential for any supplier, to service India and China.
However, the opportunity is only there for those who have <u>capacity</u>.
In order for Märklin to take advantage of just one of those markets, would it need to:
1. establish new channels for marketing?
2. double, triple, or quadruple their manufacuring capacity?
3. create new teams able to research railroads in those countries?
4. double, triple, or quadruple the size of their buildings?

Any one of the above takes new investment, ie. new money.
regards
Kimball

I heard but can't confirm that models as advanced as the latest gen of steamers with SDS can be built outside Germany now.

If so, ideally what I'd like to see is that whatever Marklin could made completely outside Germany; whether in China or Hungary - can be shipped directly from factory to dealers around the world on a real just-in-time basis. So each production centre can better service a specific market.

I think currently all items built outside Germany have to be sent back to Goppingen first before redistribution to dealers - which partly accounts for many late items and for overseas dealers; higher costs and even longer wait times.

This is the similar kind of structure used by many other industries.
Personally I think even this kind of structure is too advanced for Marklin way of thinking.