Hello,

The manual of mDecoder Tool said, "The Sound programmer can only be used
at service centers or dealers. It is used for faster transfer of sound files to mSD. "

See;
http://www.maerklin.de/d...pdates/decoder-tool.html

Best of all: even if you have that fancy programmer, you still need a CS2 for some changes (e.g. firmware upgrades or function mappings).

If the firmware of the decoder is too old, the programmer simply refuses to upload sounds - until the decoder was updated with a CS2.

I bought one, (programmer) and it's actually quite simple to use - I don't know why M say it can only be used at service centres and dealers. It certainly simpifies and speeds up the task of loading sound files quite considerably, and one can load one's own sound files as well as the standard M versions. At the moment the programmer functionality appears to be just that, (loading sound files) but it's quite obvious when you look at the mdecoder tool on a PC that there is a lot more functionality coming. (Normal CV read/writes etc.) It looks like ultimately it will do the same job as the ESU lokprogrammer (but for M decoders, of course).

cheers

60801 sound programmes manual download in PDF 3MB

http://medienpdb.maerklin.de/product_files/1/pdf/60801_betrieb.pdf

Please note - Copy and paste the link.

Hi, Michael!
I wrote: "By using the M programmer you save a millifortnight during the upload - but have to remove the decoder from the loco for that task."

AFAIK the Sound Programmer can do less than the CS2, not more - but it does the things it does a little bit quicker - and without locking the CS2 for a while.
This tool is meant for dealers where 10 minutes vs. 30 minutes make a big difference.

If you buy the Programmer then you can run trains with the CS2 while the Programmer uploads sounds to a decoder.
If you don't buy the Programmer then you can read a book or a newspaper while the CS2 uploads sounds to a decoder.

Having the programmer will speed up the time it takes to download a sound file.

Kind Regards
D

Well, yes.
You save a millifortnight with every decoder.
Update 1000 decoders and you save two weeks.
Update 10 decoders and you save three hours.

Just estimate how many decoders you will update with it and decide whether it's worth your money.

The mfx programming capabilities of an MS2 are best described as "non existent". You can use the MS2 to set the volume, the maximum speed, the acceleration and braking delay.
See post #14 in this thread:
https://www.marklin-user...l-arrived-but#post488639

That's a Märklin tradition. Even when M still used ESU decoders they sold many locos with incorrect sounds.
Why change this when the locos get sold anyway?

And yes: not all ESU sounds are good, not all ESU sounds are correct.

Hi,

Like others here, I wonder why Märklin is not doing more efforts to sell the mSD decoders, while they initially did quite a good job. As far as I know, they work well, and I don not think that they are overpriced. However the documentation for the Decoder Tool (mDT, software) is very limited, and indeed I know no documentation about how to make motor sounds (and very little about making any sound in fact).

But... I suspect that the combination mSD (decoder) / mDT (software) / 60801 ('sound programmer') / some access to a CS2 for firmware updates...
... can be more successful than most would expect. I could produce simple sounds, "loop" sounds (whistle), and... a "draft" motor sound.

You can listen to my "draft" motor sound here : https://vimeo.com/134098534

There are good news :
1) you don't need to produce all of the sounds "components" shown on the post by Jonas above. A few sound files can already provide something acceptable, depending on the motor and how demanding you are.
2) I have some understanding of it, still limited but much better than nothing, and using the 60801 is helping - I just discovered that there is "log" file produced when uploading a sound, it gives some hints about how it works. The fact that you can connect a speaker to the 60801 is also very useful, you can test every sound including motor speed up / down.
3) Although the process is quite long at present, the more we understand, the more we can simplify. In particular, I use a small script to copy a few file with simple names (e.g. idle, speedUp1, etc.) to the Märklin names: this may help understanding what needs to be done, and provide other motor sounds with less efforts.

This is a work in progress. It may takes weeks, months or years depending on my time availability... but if someone is interested in sharing knowledge about this, I am more than open to it. Given the time, I would even try tor write a complete manual. If you have suggestions about how and/or on which site to do this efficiently, it is also welcome.

Maybe Märklin could help if they understand that users are interested? Personally I would not buy LokSounds if mSD works, with fine sounds that I can modify. We want to help Märklin staying alive, don't we ?
So no ESU if not needed, and please, Märklin, some help would be welcome ! At least, don't stop providing a minimal support for the mDT software (It may worth an update, after 3 years ?), selling compatible mSD, and selling the 60801. The only thing I would be upset with, is that my efforts become useless because some component becomes unavailable.

Philippe.

I think it's a myth that retailers produce as much decoders with 60801, this tool must have been a poor investment for M

Not roughly, rather up to 30 minutes.

If you start from scratch, your sound projects should upload within seconds (if you start small doing trial and error).
If you start big having several megabytes of sound the upload will take up to 30 minutes.

Thanks all for your comments. Indeed I heard that the SoundProgrammer was not intended for "end-users". But I think that Märklin makes a mistake !
Why ? Because the lack of a good and well documented sound making tool means that Märklin does not want to sell mSD decoders to "advanced users". Of course you can upload sounds downloaded from Märklin with a CS2. But this is not what I am talking about. I am talking about using the mSD to create motor (and other) sounds in the same way advanced users can use ESU LokSound decoders and the associated "programmer". Ok I do not have personal experience with this, but here is what can be done with a LokSound for the same locomotive as the one I have the mSD in :


I think that several motor sounds made by Märklin aren't as good as what is shown on this video, and even not as good as what I have from standard LokSounds (at least for Märklin "export" models, including the "Nohab" group released in 2014/2015)

As it is now, it looks like the mDT software is for making "average" sounds with substantial efforts. Considering that ESU apparently enables the preparation of "good or very good" sounds with less efforts, even if the LokSounds are higher priced, the consequence is that "advanced" users will not want mSD decoders. Is that a good choice for Märklin ? At this points it would need a market study... if demanding users are only playing within their own "circles", ok Märklin doesn't need to care about them. If, by contrast, those more oriented towards programming and electronics are in good contact with many user types, from kids to people with large Märklin collections... the message that "Märklin decoders are not that good" could be a bad one.

This said, I admit that I am doing this in part because I find it frustrating to have a good hardware like the mSD decoders and being unable to make full use of them. The problem here is software. The mDT should receive more attention. If Märklin is using it internally, they would have double benefit from improving the software : they would sell better products and they would waste less time preparing the sounds ! If you are using a software, then making it right may worth the money...

Philippe.

I think the majority of customers do not care. They have some diesel sound in their diesel locomotive and that is good enough for most people. I do not think there is any real money in developing a truly advanced sound decoder unless the goal was to have an advanced sound decoder for the mass market. Märklin only produces 21-pin MTC and an 8-pin decoder. They do not produce any other types, which tells me that the mSD exists only to provide a platform for easily putting sounds into Märklin/Trix locomotives. Sounds that you download from the Märklin website. Again, this suits the needs of most people. It does not look like Märklin wants to provide other options than that.

Märklin could choose to provide a full blown sound decoder platform with all the cool sound features, but in reality, I think only a small amount of people would actually use it. Those people buy ESU today. From my point of view it would worth the investment.

On the other hand, I do think that it would make some sense for Märklin to provide the mSD and mLD for the PluX plugs as well. This would make it possible for people to put them in locomotives with PluX (new PIKO, Roco etc.). I am unsure of the demand though. But it would make it easier to build mfx into non-21-pin locomotives. ESU offers the M4, but I would like mfx from Märklin so I can benefit from potential upcoming updates to the platform. Also, I do not like having several different types of decoders.

IMO Märklin should branch out the digital system into a separate product line with its own profile and market it as a universal digital system. Currently they market it as digital for Märklin, Trix and LGB products, which is somewhat the same thing, but many people think that the system only works with Märklin products.

Not "we". I do not agree with you. I think it is a fun addition to the operation of a model railway. I do not consider myself unprofessional for that reason.

I do not think it is unrealistic, if the train runs out of fuel it does not work properly. That is very realistic to me. I guess you get what you make of it. I can see possibilities in having to actually do some service and maintenance as part of an operating session. I could plan for locomotive roundtrips and calculate how many trips a railbus could make before having to go and get fuel. Normally in operating sessions, at least in the ones I participate in, service and fueling of locos is a completely overseen task. With mfx+ not doing these things actually have consequences.

So they should not have done it at all, because they could not make it spot on realistic? I bet you would be annoyed if your steamer blew up because you forgot to put virtual water in it. Come on! It is just a fun thing! Don't like it, don't use it.

An electrical motor in the boiler of a steamer is not realistic either.

I know you don't, I was joking with you.

The degree of realism could of course be developed even more than it currently is. My point with realism is that something does happen - in some way - and without mfx+ nothing happens at all. Thinking that way, mfx+ is still more realistic than none mfx+. I run 2-rail, so I cannot benefit from mfx+ on my own layout before Märklin releases some sort of retrofit decoder. I am looking forward to that, though. I guess we have to wait a bit until the hype dies out.

I am currently not into the driver cab thing, I am solely interested in the fuel concept (and that is for diesel locos, since I am in the modern era). With electric locos it seems somewhat odd, but what to do.

With regards to Train Simulator, isn't Microsoft Train Simulator dead and long gone? I play Train Simulator 2015 (another company) which is super awesome. The UK maps are much more developed with regards to signal reality than the German maps - unfortunately - but it is still great fun.


Man! M$ is so 1990'es...

Most definitely Philippe .

I downloaded the mDT software the beginning of last year but due to eing very lazy about moving I have yet to delve into it.

My main and first project will be to try and come up with what would pass as the operational sounds for a V32. I am assuming the steam/compress air sounds from the pistons along with running gear would need to be overlayed onto the sounds for a diesel loco of the period I.E. a V140.

Thanks for the information so far Philippe, at least it would appear that my end goal will be possible after all.

Better news : the problem mentioned on August 11 was solved a few days later. The problem appeared when a sound file containing the motor sound corresponding to a change from "idle to load" was "too long". This results in an abnormal behavior in which the sound changes back to "normal power" almost immediately after reaching the "load" condition. What "too long" means remains a mystery, but the odd behavior stops when the file is shorter. I would describe the result as "good", meaning not excellent but at least as good as most sounds provided by Märklin in the "sound library" (most of them are very simple, at least based on my investigations about diesel locomotives).

I should now make a new video and summarize my findings but needs time which I do not have at present.

I still have remaining questions such as why there are up to 4 files for each of the sounds in the motor category... the mDT (software) plays them sequentially, but I couldn't make any use of it on a decoder so far (they do not seem to play sequentially). It is difficult to find out what Märklin is doing with any file because I can only play them in the mDT or in a decoder, as the file format seems to be a protected variant of .wav (the mDT accepts two forms of these files, normally readable ones and the odd Märklin variant - if anyone knows about a way to read those files on a computer other than with the mDT, which is not very practical to investigate the purpose of each file separately, I am interested to know about this).

Try the new version 3.5.0 of mDT3 and with it you can download sounds and finished projects...