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37622 Santa Fe Diesel Dead - no response to 6021 controller
 Joined: 07/12/2012(UTC) Posts: 139 Location: St. Charles, Missouri
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Digital diesel 37622 is dead on the tracks and does not respond to any commands from the 6021 controller. I opened it up and nothing was obvious. The wiring all looked good and checked with an ohm meter, and the circuit boards don't appear to have any hot spots where something burnt. Any ideas? I am guessing the decoder is dead. Checking the part number 602752, Marklin.com says no longer available. So now what? Cheers, Edited by user 02 February 2013 05:34:17(UTC)
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 Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 4,430 Location: Attiki Athens Greece
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The most possible is that the decoder is dead.Maybe the speaker is dead,this is a second possibillity.The new 60946 marklin decoder is a sollution.If the speaker in the dummy unit is OK keep it,it is better than those you will find in the 60946 package.I hope you will find a sollution for your great F7,it is a perfect runner.
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 Joined: 07/05/2012(UTC) Posts: 21 Location: Greymouth
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Have you removed the pickup shoe recently. It may not be fitted correctly or not making contact with the Terminals on the Isolating Plate in the Bogie Frame.
Cheers.
Malc S.
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 Joined: 27/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 328
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A very common thing that the decoder dies- they just pass away.... very sad. I had more than one quitting service. |
Best regards
Martin |
 1 user liked this useful post by 60904
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 Joined: 05/06/2009(UTC) Posts: 424 Location: Boksburg, Gauteng
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Hi there If the decoder did die you can also consider an ESU product like the Loksound V4.0 decoder. It is available as a pre-programmed unit for the F7 sound track, part no. 54436. http://www.esu.eu/en/pro...s/loksound/loksound-v40/It may be a bit more pricy that the marklin product though. Regards Marius |
Marius in Africa
HO, ECoS 2, Märklin C-track, any country, any design, any era & any brand which i like. |
2 users liked this useful post by Marius in Africa
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 Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC) Posts: 1,047 Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
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D.A.Banks |
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Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,757 Location: Auckland NZ
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Originally Posted by: DaveB  Hi Dave, That link throws up the DSB Nohab snowplow diesel  |
Glen
Auckland NZ
" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !
CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider |
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Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,757 Location: Auckland NZ
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Hello Abisel, I just had a look at your loco's parts diagramme see; http://www.maerklin.de/s...&artikelnummer=37622Luckily it is a separate decoder on a small backing board, screwed to a post on the chassis. Should the problem actually be the decoder a replcement with a new Marklin or ESU 21 pin decoder with one of their adapter boards (comes with Marklin, extra part for ESU) could be easily wired,/soldered into place.  You can go for the sound option if you'd like, a true upgrade, why not  As Marius suggested, going the ESU way is nice and straightforward as you can order a preprogrammed decoder, but slightly more costly. If you were able to change the decoder yourself you'd need a CS2 to program it and load the sound project to go the Marklin way First thing to do is find someone you can trust, to inspect your Loco and diagnose the problem. Same person most likely will be the same guy to replace the decoder if that is the answer. There are a number of guys around the US who can do that, but use somebody that is conversant with Marklin, not a well meaning DCC guy from down the road. Helmutts Hobbies is a company that springs to mind, the guy there is Scott, I've seen him referred to in the forum before and He's in the North there somewhere. There is also AJC Kids but I think they're over to the East, I think, they're a Marklin and ESU dealer Perhaps one of our US members could recommend somebody close to you, must be somewhere in Michigan  I can thoroughly recommend somebody in New Zealand, list member drwhittle (Dennis)_but thats going to cost postage ; www.thetraindoctor.co.nz |
Glen
Auckland NZ
" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !
CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider |
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 Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,244 Location: Montreal, QC
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Abisel, Do you have an analog transformer that you can test the lok with? I was looking at the model and was wondering what the difference between the 37622 and the 29848 (Start Set) models were. I know that the 29848 came with sounds, but I don't know if the motor and circuits were the same. The Decoder 603544 (29848) shows as available, but is rather pricey at EUR 230. The internal number for the F7 from the set shows up as 222174. If you are going to use an ESU decoder, you may have to make some conversion to the motor prior to installing the decoder. You could try to send a message to Tom Catherall [tom(at)marklin.com], I don't know if he is still active. I did find this on the web (602752): http://www.discounttrain...622-/item442-602752.htmlhttp://www.euromodeltrai...a2xpbiBQYXJ0c3w2MDI3NTIghttp://www.walthers.com/...c/productinfo/442-602752http://www.modelleisenba...be7db199306231fff3eeab17If you have a regular US dealer, ask him to check with Walthers and find out his price. There were a couple of listings for the F7 from the 29848 on ebay.de, one that ships worldwide: http://www.ebay.de/itm/M...-Santa-Fe-/130829065369?This dealer has a 37622 new original box for $395 http://www.modellbahn.co...rsale.northamerican.htmlThere may also be other models of the F7 where you could swap the shells and be off and running again. For repairs, check Helmut's in VA, ACJKids in Texas, Reynauld's in IL or Walthers in WI and Tototrains in KS. As the parts are out of stock at Goeppingen, sending it there makes no sense, unless you were to order the part and send it with the lok. Regards Mike C
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 Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,883 Location: South Western France
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Originally Posted by: abisel Digital diesel 37622 is dead on the tracks and does not respond to any commands from the 6021 controller.
I opened it up and nothing was obvious.
The wiring all looked good and checked with an ohm meter, and the circuit boards don't appear to have any hot spots where something burnt.
Any ideas? I am guessing the decoder is dead.
Checking the part number 602752, Marklin.com says no longer available. So now what?
Cheers, Sorry for picking this up a little late...  But I'd like to offer something simple and basic: has this loco worked on your layout at all? In other words do you know for sure its address? If you bought it second hand, it is possible that the address is no longer the factory default. If what I just wrote is irrelevant, my apologies...and pls return to the good advice of our colleagues!  Cheers |
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success! |
1 user liked this useful post by jvuye
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,244 Location: Montreal, QC
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Jacques,
the decoder address thing is possible. I guess that for one of the Maerklin-ESU or later decoders, that testing the lok with an analog transformer would have shown whether the lok was working or not.
I think that if the decoder was simply on the wrong address though, that after a reset of the 6021, the lights would come on when the lok was placed on the track and would go off once the address was entered.
Regards
Mike C
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Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,757 Location: Auckland NZ
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Originally Posted by: jvuye Originally Posted by: abisel Digital diesel 37622 is dead on the tracks and does not respond to any commands from the 6021 controller.
I opened it up and nothing was obvious.
The wiring all looked good and checked with an ohm meter, and the circuit boards don't appear to have any hot spots where something burnt.
Any ideas? I am guessing the decoder is dead.
Checking the part number 602752, Marklin.com says no longer available. So now what?
Cheers, Sorry for picking this up a little late... But I'd like to offer something simple and basic: has this loco worked on your layout at all? In other words do you know for sure its address? If you bought it second hand, it is possible that the address is no longer the factory default. If what I just wrote is irrelevant, my apologies...and pls return to the good advice of our colleagues! Cheers Very sound thinking (pardon the pun ) as allways Jacques, but.. we don't know untill he answers  |
Glen
Auckland NZ
" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !
CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider |
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Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,757 Location: Auckland NZ
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Originally Posted by: mike c Abisel,
Do you have an analog transformer that you can test the lok with?
I was looking at the model and was wondering what the difference between the 37622 and the 29848 (Start Set) models were. I know that the 29848 came with sounds, but I don't know if the motor and circuits were the same. The Decoder 603544 (29848) shows as available, but is rather pricey at EUR 230. The internal number for the F7 from the set shows up as 222174.
Regards
Mike C Mike, An ESu or Msd replacement would probably still be less expensive in the long run, particularly the Marklin one, if he can get it set up or programmed, cause you'll probably need the mother board as well. In fact the Marklin Msd 21 pin decoders come with a holder for the Adapter board, (I have one in my hand as I type) that will attach directly to the securing post used for the factory decoder (and the old reversing units for that matter) Marklin also have a good sound project for the F7, if that is required Great list of dealers tho, should be helfull, Abisel, just needs to respond now after wading thru all these suggestions  but sending it to Goppingen  might just as well send it to NZ, it'd cost less I guarantee it |
Glen
Auckland NZ
" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !
CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,466
Location: DE-NW
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Hi! Originally Posted by: mike c If you are going to use an ESU decoder, you may have to make some conversion to the motor prior to installing the decoder. Which conversion should that be? Motors of 37xxx locos should work with ESU decoders (otherwise there should also be problems with mSD). |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,466
Location: DE-NW
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Hi! Originally Posted by: jvuye In other words do you know for sure its address? The current address can be read from the DIP switches. It cannot hurt to move all switches a few times and then try different addresses (in case there is a contact problem with any of the switches). |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
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Joined: 07/12/2012(UTC) Posts: 139 Location: St. Charles, Missouri
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To everyone, thanks for all the replies and suggestions. I have been talking to Guy at AJKids and we both think the decoder is dead. I have looked at all the wiring and connections, verified that track voltage it present at the inputs of the decoder, looked at the motor and it does look like it works (brushes worn and commutator has brush marks), and have changed the DIP switch address. This loco is completely dead. So I will be getting a V4 Mfx decoder from ESU. [img]  [/img] [img]  [/img] [img]  [/img]
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,244 Location: Montreal, QC
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There seem to be two decoders in the A unit. One with 8 dipswitches and the other with 4. I am guessing that one (8 switches) is for the lok and the second one (4 switches) is for the sounds in the B unit.
Have you tested both? Do the sounds work, but no lights/motor in the A unit?
Slider to decoder red
Wires to the front light grey/orange
Wires to motor brown/blue/green
Wires to B unit red/black (2nd decoder to speaker)/yellow/orange (to terminals?)
I'm not quite sure what is connected to yellow/orange via the terminals. Does anybody have any ideas of what this design is?
I guess that this duality is the reason for the elevated cost of the decoder.
If you remove the decoder and install a loksound decoder, it may not work with the existing sound module in the B unit. You will also have to adapt the motor to operate with mfx/DC using a conversion kit or replacement magnets.
I don't know whether an ESU Lokpilot could be integrated with the second decoder for the sound module.
Regards
Mike C
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Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 4,430 Location: Attiki Athens Greece
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My opinion is to remove the two old decoders and fit the new msd 60946.No need to change the motor and the 60946 have two speakers inside to use.
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Joined: 07/12/2012(UTC) Posts: 139 Location: St. Charles, Missouri
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It is my understanding that the ESU V4 Loksound decoder (64436) would replace both the original Marklin decoder boards.
The original speaker may or may not work with the ESU decoder, but the ESU does come with a speaker.
I would have to wire the ESU decoder to existing wiring. No big deal, just a little soldering.
The two connections in the B unit I believe are for a rear light of which this loco does not have.
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,244 Location: Montreal, QC
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It appears that power is provided to the second decoder directly from the first decoder's circuit board, so if the first decoder was dead, the second might not receive any power.
It may be possible to salvage the sound decoder if it still works (but is just not receiving voltage from the main decoder).
If this is beyond your ability, I would consider sending the lok to AJCKids or to Helmut's for testing/repairs.
On the spare parts sheet with diagram (list) there is "Geraeuschelektronik A-Unit 602753" which is showing as available at Maerklin.de
602753 - GERAEUSCHELEKTRON. 99,95 € Unverbindliche Preisempfehlung
This may be the second decoder for the sound module in the B-Unit.
Ask Guy to check with Walthers if he can get a better price on the replacement main decoder than the one listed. If you decide to replace it, that would allow you to maintain all current functions. If you decide to go with a full conversion (motor magnet and ESU Loksound decoder), you may also want to consider making some additional upgrades, for example, replacing the bulb with LED/LEDs (Long Distance Headlight), separate lights for the road number plates and interior cab light.
If you decide to go with the Loksound option, Ask Guy if he can put the Loksound in the A-Unit and whether he can salvage the sound decoder from the original setup for the B unit or get you the 602753 which can be installed in the B-unit to bring it back to life.
Regards
Mike C
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Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC) Posts: 1,047 Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
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Hi Glen, you right. entered 37662 instead of 37622. Now I know I am getting old. Apologies to all.  Hi Dave, That link throws up the DSB Nohab snowplow diesel |
D.A.Banks |
1 user liked this useful post by Dave Banks
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Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,757 Location: Auckland NZ
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Originally Posted by: abisel It is my understanding that the ESU V4 Loksound decoder (64436) would replace both the original Marklin decoder boards.
The original speaker may or may not work with the ESU decoder, but the ESU does come with a speaker.
I would have to wire the ESU decoder to existing wiring. No big deal, just a little soldering.
The two connections in the B unit I believe are for a rear light of which this loco does not have. Hello Abisel, Use the speaker that comes with the new decoder, biff or save the original The two connections in the B unit are for connecting to another dummy A unit for it's lights Best of luck with the upgrade ! |
Glen
Auckland NZ
" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !
CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,466
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: mike c On the spare parts sheet with diagram (list) there is "Geraeuschelektronik A-Unit 602753" which is showing as available at Maerklin.de
602753 - GERAEUSCHELEKTRON. 99,95 € Unverbindliche Preisempfehlung
This may be the second decoder for the sound module in the B-Unit. Yep, that's the thing with the four DIP switches. The sound electronics (I would not call it a decoder). I have similar sound electronics in V 200 and V 188 locos. The sound is not state of the art. So while it might still work, a new sound decoder will surely sound better. Abisel, IMHO you should make sure the diameter of the new speaker matches the sound tube in the B unit. Or get a larger speaker as the sound will be better. There's a lot of room in the B unit and the speaker that comes with the decoder may not make full use of all that room. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
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Joined: 07/12/2012(UTC) Posts: 139 Location: St. Charles, Missouri
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Now the question is which interface to get on the Loksound V4 M4. I'm thinking of the 21MTC with an adapter board which would allow all the loco wiring to be on the adapter and not on the decoder. A cleaner installation I would think. I agree on using the speaker provided with the Loksound. It would match the impedance output of the board. If is doesn't fit the existing sound tube, I could make a new sound tube. It is only PVC plastic pipe from your local plumbing or electrical supply. Since I currently have only the 6021 controller, I would be limited in what sounds I could get, but with Lokprogrammer, I may be able to tweak the addressing for more funtions. Sometime in the future, I would upgrade to a better controller. This is another reason for the V4 M4 decoder. From looking around on the internet (wonderful thing the internet) I find the Marklin sounds lacking whereas the ESU sounds much more realistic. Then there are the sounds from other people like Phoenix Sound http://www.phoenixsound.com/index.html. Here is the Marklin 37622 sound (scroll down to F7): http://www.maerklin.de/de/produ...pdates/dieselsounds.htmlHere is the ESU EMD F7 sound (scroll down to PF7): http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/...s_pi1%5Bsorting%5D=dateDHere is the Phoenix EMD F7 sound: http://www.phoenixsound.com/library/am_diesel/f7.htmPhoenix sounds are more for the DCC locos and their sound files are not compatible with ESU, but maybe someone within ESU can change that. Another thing I found on the internet was this explaniation of the decoder within the 37622 E7 Sante Fe loco: http://www.bogobit.de/29848-f7/f7.html.de Cheers,
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Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,757 Location: Auckland NZ
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Originally Posted by: abisel Now the question is which interface to get on the Loksound V4 M4. I'm thinking of the 21MTC with an adapter board which would allow all the loco wiring to be on the adapter and not on the decoder. A cleaner installation I would think. I agree on using the speaker provided with the Loksound. It would match the impedance output of the board. If is doesn't fit the existing sound tube, I could make a new sound tube. It is only PVC plastic pipe from your local plumbing or electrical supply. Since I currently have only the 6021 controller, I would be limited in what sounds I could get, but with Lokprogrammer, I may be able to tweak the addressing for more funtions. Sometime in the future, I would upgrade to a better controller. This is another reason for the V4 M4 decoder. From looking around on the internet (wonderful thing the internet) I find the Marklin sounds lacking whereas the ESU sounds much more realistic. Then there are the sounds from other people like Phoenix Sound http://www.phoenixsound.com/index.html. Another thing I found on the internet was this explaniation of the decoder within the 37622 E7 Sante Fe loco: http://www.bogobit.de/29848-f7/f7.html.de Cheers, Hello Abisel, I'd definitely go with the 21pin interface for your Loco, you can then secure the motherboard (or adapterplate) to the post somehow (screw or hot melt glue) where the present decoder is. I use it on most of my upgrades You will be able to set the functions up for multi addresses, and access them from your 6021 ESU have a good range of speakers for the 4VM4 decoders, I would suggest this one without worrying about the sound tube which was an old idea to enhance poor sound ; 50334, it is a 20x40mm speaker and box. I have one in my Zeplin and it can be heard all over the place, turns heads at trainshows in halls etc, and you have plenty of room for it, even in the "A" unit. It is the correct 4ohm impedance for the V4 decoder More often than not I use a speaker from the accessories range rather than the included one. They mostly all get used up in time but arn't that expensive see; http://www.esu.eu/en/pro...kers/loksound-micro-v40/ |
Glen
Auckland NZ
" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !
CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,466
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: abisel Sometime in the future, I would upgrade to a better controller. This is another reason for the V4 M4 decoder. Since the new controller probably will support DCC, you can also go for a V4 without M4 (that would be my preference because I think the automatic registration of mfx wastes more time than it saves). OTOH you can disable mfx with the V4 M4 decoder so M4 is only a small disadvantage IMHO. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,244 Location: Montreal, QC
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If you are keeping your 6021 and installing a Loksound or Loksound mfx, learn how to use the Motorola 2nd address feature, which will allow you to access additional sounds.
MC
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Joined: 07/12/2012(UTC) Posts: 139 Location: St. Charles, Missouri
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Loksound V4 M4 is on order. Along with a couple other ESU products such as Lokprogrammer and Decoder tester. Should be fun and games when I get them. Yes I do plan on using sequential addressing to access additonal functions. Thanks to all for their inputs. I will follow-up with progress as I get this loco back on-line. Here is another item I may look into. MARS light simulator: http://www.ngineering.com/lghti...for%20the%20railroad.htm
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,244 Location: Montreal, QC
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The ESU decoder has enough aux functions to include a MARS light as one of them. I think you would just have to drill the appropriate hole and install the LED and housing and wire it to one of the Function terminals.
Regards
Mike C
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Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,757 Location: Auckland NZ
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Originally Posted by: abisel Loksound V4 M4 is on order. Along with a couple other ESU products such as Lokprogrammer and Decoder tester. Should be fun and games when I get them. Yes I do plan on using sequential addressing to access additonal functions. Thanks to all for their inputs. I will follow-up with progress as I get this loco back on-line. Here is another item I may look into. MARS light simulator: http://www.ngineering.com/lghti...for%20the%20railroad.htm Hi Abisel, Good choice Mars is a standard built in function in ESU decoders so no need for this gadget, just set it up in the programming. I think you could have the headlight on Mars and standard "on" as different functions, no need for drilling holes in your precious Loco. All will be revealed when you get your Lokprogrammer, there are a heap of things you can do with it. Whilst the Marklin decoders are cheaper, I still prefer ESU, and think they're way ahead of the game at the moment for a number of reasons |
Glen
Auckland NZ
" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !
CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider |
1 user liked this useful post by NZMarklinist
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Joined: 07/12/2012(UTC) Posts: 139 Location: St. Charles, Missouri
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The 37622 is ALIVE! I replaced the old decoder with ESU 54499 Loksound V4 along with an adapter plate ESU 51968. I didn't like the fine wires on the adapter plate, so I replace them with Teflon insulated pre-tined 28ga wire and matched the Marklin color scheme. Before: [img]  [/img] After: [img]  [/img] Then I installed everything and made it look pretty: [img]  [/img] [img]  [/img] [img]  [/img] [img]  [/img] [img]  [/img] Once everything was installed, I programmed the decoder with the F7 sound file. I had a couple issues with the Lokprogrammer throwing exception errors, but it worked OK. After testing the F7 on the track, it was way too fast and way too loud so I tweaked the values a little and everything is working just fine.
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2 users liked this useful post by abisel
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Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 4,430 Location: Attiki Athens Greece
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Perfect news,congratulations. 
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Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC) Posts: 2,533 Location: VA
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Very neat job as well!
-Brandon |
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Joined: 07/12/2012(UTC) Posts: 139 Location: St. Charles, Missouri
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I really like using the Teflon insulated wire. Same stuff used in aviation wiring. Easy to shape to layout and stays that way. It is high temperature so that when you solder to a connection, the insulation doesn't melt away like PVC jacketed wire. And the copper is already silver tinned so soldering is much easier as well. http://www.bulkwire.com/wire-ca...ature-stranded-wire.htmlI'm sure the wire is available in Europe as well, just have to search for it on Google. I still have to tweak the decoder a little more. I already have the speed slowed down and the volume turned down, but I need to do a little more tweaking. Also, I purchased a new soldering iron since my old one really was too much for the job and needed to be replaced. http://www.grainger.com/Grainge...-Solder-5JH82?Pid=searchI'm guessing there is a Weller that runs on 220 in Europe too.
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1 user liked this useful post by abisel
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Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
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9 Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Originally Posted by: abisel Loksound V4 M4 is on order. Along with a couple other ESU products such as Lokprogrammer and Decoder tester. Should be fun and games when I get them. Yes I do plan on using sequential addressing to access additonal functions. Thanks to all for their inputs. I will follow-up with progress as I get this loco back on-line. Here is another item I may look into. MARS light simulator: http://www.ngineering.com/lghti...for%20the%20railroad.htm Hi Abisel, Good choice (...) All will be revealed when you get your Lokprogrammer, there are a heap of things you can do with it. ...and on this ESU decoder you'll find a dozen (or so) of CV, only to dimmer the lights : I just find it ridiculous ! BTW : have you tried to deal with CV67 & CV 94 to make a 28 points speed curve, it would be interesting to know the result with this type of decoder...(to compare with other V3/V4 ESU decoders) Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist
Whilst the Marklin decoders are cheaper, I still prefer ESU, and think they're way ahead of the game at the moment for a number of reasons well, if you really met with the new range of Marklin mdecoders, you couldn't say that way....did you, really ? ( new Marklin decoders are less expensive mainly thanks to a bulk production...)
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Joined: 16/10/2001(UTC) Posts: 793 Location: Pittsburgh,
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Originally Posted by: abisel I really like using the Teflon insulated wire. Same stuff used in aviation wiring. Easy to shape to layout and stays that way. It is high temperature so that when you solder to a connection, the insulation doesn't melt away like PVC jacketed wire. And the copper is already silver tinned so soldering is much easier as well. http://www.bulkwire.com/wire-ca...ature-stranded-wire.htmlI'm sure the wire is available in Europe as well, just have to search for it on Google. I still have to tweak the decoder a little more. I already have the speed slowed down and the volume turned down, but I need to do a little more tweaking. Also, I purchased a new soldering iron since my old one really was too much for the job and needed to be replaced. http://www.grainger.com/Grainge...-Solder-5JH82?Pid=searchI'm guessing there is a Weller that runs on 220 in Europe too. That is great info! You said you use 28ga for the loco re-build. What about the lay-out? What gauge do you use for power distribution to the different parts of the layout? I would like to run underneath the feeders for the track (Red + Brown) and a different one for lights (or maybe more than one if I want to have more than one circuit). Mario |
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Joined: 07/12/2012(UTC) Posts: 139 Location: St. Charles, Missouri
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Jeehring: I have not yet tried a 28-point speed curve. I just used the default 3-point curve for the F7 loco. I did find that not only do you change the speed curve of the motor but also the block diagram transitions for the different engine sounds at different speeds. I was told that Marklin used to use ESU as their decoder vendor until they filed bankruptcy and didn't pay there debt to ESU. Then Marklin went with Zimo decoders for their current production. Is this true? Zimo does look to have interesting stuff. http://www.zimo.at/web2010/products/lokdecoder_EN.htmMarioFabro: I have not yet built my layout, but will most likely use no less than 20 ga. Where track power, lighting and signals are seperate circuits with appropriate boosters as needed.
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,466
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: jeehring ...and on this ESU decoder you'll find a dozen (or so) of CV, only to dimmer the lights : I just find it ridiculous ! With ESU decoders you can set headlights to two different intensities (e.g. normal light and simulated long distance headlight), with Märklin decoders you can not. With Märklin decoders you have to use undocumented CVs to adjust the headlights (or use the CS2). They also use several CVs for each function output. What I find ridiculous: you have to disable mfx to program those new Märklin decoders with an MS2 and you cannot set the acceleration delay to 12 seconds for use with both DCC and mfx (if you set 12 seconds in DCC you get a much shorter delay in mfx, if you set 12 seconds in mfx you get a much longer delay in DCC - that makes Märklin's the weirdest multi-protocol decoders IMHO). Originally Posted by: jeehring Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist
Whilst the Marklin decoders are cheaper, I still prefer ESU, and think they're way ahead of the game at the moment for a number of reasons
well, if you really met with the new range of Marklin mdecoders, you couldn't say that way....did you, really ? ( new Marklin decoders are less expensive mainly thanks to a bulk production...) When it comes to sound quality, load regulation, acceleration and braking delay then IMHO ESU is ahead of Märklin. Sound decoders and quiet decoders come from Uhlenbrock, Zimo, ESU, Märklin - and everybody can buy what she/he likes best. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,466
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: abisel I was told that Marklin used to use ESU as their decoder vendor until they filed bankruptcy and didn't pay there debt to ESU. Then Marklin went with Zimo decoders for their current production. Is this true? I'm afraid not much of that is true. Even in 2012 Märklin used ESU decoders for warranty replacements. I never heard of Zimo decoders in Märklin locos (Roco use Zimo decoders). Märklin used non-ESU decoders for all new E 41/141 models (starting 2008), but some of the 2010 new items still had ESU decoders. So there was a transition over a few years from ESU mfx decoders to Märklin's own "universal genius" decoders. In 2004 they used MM-only ESU decoders, but soon replaced them with own decoders of the 60760 class. I don't know why the co-operation between Märklin and ESU ended. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
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Joined: 16/10/2001(UTC) Posts: 793 Location: Pittsburgh,
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Originally Posted by: abisel AFAIK ESU is the only to provide a mfX compatible decoder (the V4.0 M4). Is that correct? |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,466
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: MarioFabro AFAIK ESU is the only to provide a mfX compatible decoder (the V4.0 M4). Is that correct? It seems that no other company than ESU (and inventor Märklin, of course) has the right to use mfx - either in decoders or in controllers. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
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Joined: 07/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 29
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Originally Posted by: abisel The 37622 is ALIVE!
After testing the F7 on the track, it was way too fast and way too loud so I tweaked the values a little and everything is working just fine. Nice job, well done! Too loud? Did you check the speaker's impedance? The LokSound V4.0 requires 4-8 Ohm. Willy
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Joined: 07/12/2012(UTC) Posts: 139 Location: St. Charles, Missouri
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Willy,
Yes, I made sure the speaker impedance is correct. It is an 8 ohm speaker but is installed in a sound tube which amplifies, plus the outer shell of the B-unit acts as a sound chamber. I would rather it be too loud than not loud enough. So with adjustments to the sound settings, it is now much better. If I had connected a 4 ohm speaker, it would have been even louder.
Thanks to all for your comments.
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Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,757 Location: Auckland NZ
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Originally Posted by: abisel The 37622 is ALIVE!
I replaced the old decoder with ESU 54499 Loksound V4 along with an adapter plate ESU 51968.
I didn't like the fine wires on the adapter plate, so I replace them with Teflon insulated pre-tined 28ga wire and matched the Marklin color scheme.
Once everything was installed, I programmed the decoder with the F7 sound file. I had a couple issues with the Lokprogrammer throwing exception errors, but it worked OK.
After testing the F7 on the track, it was way too fast and way too loud so I tweaked the values a little and everything is working just fine. Hi Abisel, Great news and a nice job on the coversion, done like a pro and better than some who would call themselves that, but not anybody I use edit; should have said I love that wiring One small point/criticism/helpfull suggestion. It would have been nice to have a non glossy black sleeve over the wires between A & B Units, but you can always blacken it with a permanent marker pen  or what have you. You will appreciate that when you start running the Locos Edited by user 01 February 2013 16:41:55(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified |
Glen
Auckland NZ
" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !
CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider |
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Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,757 Location: Auckland NZ
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Originally Posted by: jeehring 9 Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Originally Posted by: abisel Loksound V4 M4 is on order. Along with a couple other ESU products such as Lokprogrammer and Decoder tester. Should be fun and games when I get them. Yes I do plan on using sequential addressing to access additonal functions. Thanks to all for their inputs. I will follow-up with progress as I get this loco back on-line. Here is another item I may look into. MARS light simulator: http://www.ngineering.com/lghti...for%20the%20railroad.htm Hi Abisel, Good choice (...) All will be revealed when you get your Lokprogrammer, there are a heap of things you can do with it. ...and on this ESU decoder you'll find a dozen (or so) of CV, only to dimmer the lights : I just find it ridiculous ! BTW : have you tried to deal with CV67 & CV 94 to make a 28 points speed curve, it would be interesting to know the result with this type of decoder...(to compare with other V3/V4 ESU decoders) Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist
Whilst the Marklin decoders are cheaper, I still prefer ESU, and think they're way ahead of the game at the moment for a number of reasons well, if you really met with the new range of Marklin mdecoders, you couldn't say that way....did you, really ? ( new Marklin decoders are less expensive mainly thanks to a bulk production...) "have you tried to deal with CV67 & CV 94 to make a 28 points speed curve," Just a simple on screen edit selection in CS1-R and Ecos ? "well, if you really met with the new range of Marklin mdecoders, you couldn't say that way....did you, really " I have and so far I'm not convinced, yes the price is nice and Marklin wanted it that way to take business from ESU, and not let all the converties default to ESU controllers, hence up till now a CS2 was required for set up of the Marklin decoders. Friend Dennis the Train Dr just got one of the new Marklin progarmmers and being a Computor guy is no dummy but at last check had been unable to get a new decoder to set up, (it keeps saying to update the decoder firmware which it did all OK, but still says update the decoder and it's supposedly been done via the programmer) but at least he can do it with his CS2. He has an ESU Lokprogrammer as well and loves it, but he has a soft spot for Marklin and wants to try and use them more. (Even tho his CS went back to M twice to get it to work) Dennis put an Msd in my 37900 V290 and it is a bit indifferent at starting now, could be the compact Csine bogey but it ran fine on the original decoder. Also my 39800 V200 blew up after a few minutes cause of faulty assembly and wire placement at the factory. A repair to the mother board and minor rewire, and fitting a V3M4 and it, also a compact Csine, runs and operates perfectly. That will be a story in me and my trains one day ! "Just my experiences, that is all " |
Glen
Auckland NZ
" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !
CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider |
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Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,757 Location: Auckland NZ
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Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: abisel .
I don't know why the co-operation between Märklin and ESU ended. Because ESU were late delivering an under spec CS1,  the fault was Marklin's for not detailing the spec well enough I would say, which is why the old management had to go, never mind a buy out. (Best and probably only good thing Kingsbridge then did, was commision the development of CS2/Marklin digital), but it could of been all so different. On top of that ESU using Marklin's money, developed the Ecos in parralel and it was released with S88 and booster connections, not to mention a page for The Turntable Control. They, ESU, were opportunists to be sure, but they just jumped thru a dirty big hole Marklin left in the Contract for the developement of Marklin Sytems with them. Just my opinion Double post please delete this one webmaster  |
Glen
Auckland NZ
" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !
CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider |
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Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,757 Location: Auckland NZ
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Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: abisel .
I don't know why the co-operation between Märklin and ESU ended. Because ESU were late delivering an under spec CS1, not to mention boosters that never turned up ! The fault was Marklin's for not detailing the spec well enough I would say, which is why the old management had to go, never mind a buy out. (Best and probably only good thing Kingsbridge then did, was commision the development of CS2/Marklin digital), but it could of been all so different. On top of that ESU using Marklin's money, developed the Ecos in parralel and it was released with S88 and booster connections, not to mention a page for The Turntable Control. They, ESU, were opportunists to be sure, but they just jumped thru a dirty big hole Marklin left in the Contract for the developement of Marklin Sytems with them. Just my opinion |
Glen
Auckland NZ
" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !
CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider |
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Joined: 07/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 29
Location: ,
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Märklin bashing...
ESU bashing...
I really don't know which company is to blame for the discontinued cooporation. Maybe both are to blame.
Fact is that the consumer is always the loser in this sort of conflict.
Märklin did a final hard- and software update on the Central Station 1 (60212) and then dropped all responsibility. Many purchasers of the CS1 were left with a piece of technology that would be outdated and to some extent obsolete very soon without firmware updates.
ESU came with a "repair" and offered de CS1 Reloaded program (which is discontinued as of this year). The CS1R is equal to the ECoS 1. Updates are guaranteed.
But the misery continues, now on decoder level when using the mfx or M4 protocol.
Factory installed decoders in Märklin locomotives cannot be read or programmed with the ESU LokProgrammer. They can be read and programmed to a certain extent with CS1R and ECoS, and of course fully with newer Central Stations, bur not sound. Hence the new Märklin SOUND programmer 60801.
The Märklin factory installed decoders are NOT equal to the mLD and mSD decoder Märklin sell separately. The latter have also DCC on board and, in principle, can be programmed with the ESU LokProgrammer. However, if mLD or mSD decoder fail and become disfunctional after programming, Märklin warranty, in principle, will not apply as it is , in principle, not permitted to program Märklin decoders with non-Márklin equipment.
If one wants to be free of problems, the use of open software protocol is necessary. In principle, currently DCC is the way to go. It is available on Central Stations, ECoS, and many other control systems for MRR.
Willy
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2 users liked this useful post by nmbssncb
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Joined: 16/10/2001(UTC) Posts: 793 Location: Pittsburgh,
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Interesting thread for me... I have aquired in the last few years:
- 33622 - F7 A-unit - Delta
- 40622 - F7 A-unit - Dummy
- 4063 - F7 B-unit - Dummy
My plan is to completely upgrade the loco. I would like to:
- upgrade motor to full digital mfX (most likely with ESU)
- change lights to LED, add long distance light with separate control (possibly making it a more powerful LED)
- add LED lights to the road numbers
- add LED cabin lights
- add sound.
Some of the things I will have to look at when I actually re-build it (how to fix the SMD LED's to the road numbers for example) but I believe they are solvable.
My question is what to do with the sound.. here is what I would like to achieve (but don't know how or if it is possible)
- speakers on every unit (three of them). Don't think is possible with only one decoder
- horn sound coming only from the front unit. I think I would need a specific decoder for this.
So most likely the solution would be two decoders, one inclusive of the horn sound and one only with the motor sounds (for the B unit). Is it possible to achieve this with mfX? I believe I can have two mfX decoders with the same address, one with full sound and one with limited sound.
BTW.. I will greatly use the "two decoders with same address" solution for when I put together my PushPull consists with lights. I have a few of them for SBB and intend to put a second decoder in the cab-control car (have some from Liliput and Fleishmann I will use) to alternate the front/rear lights and to control the lighting of the consist (through CC couplers most likely). |
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Joined: 07/12/2012(UTC) Posts: 139 Location: St. Charles, Missouri
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I like your ideas about LEDs for road numbers, cabin lights, headlights and diesel engine area. Let us know what you come up with. I too will look into possible solutions using my existing V4 decoder. It does have 4 AUX outputs and the adapter plate has an amplifier for AUX 3 and 4.
I like the idea of a MARS light, maybe even a red rotating beacon.
Also, I would like to integrate the slow speed to the bell sound. So that when you get below a threshold speed, the bell starts up (if enabled).
I'm also going to look into a better way to run wires between A and B units. I don't really like the way it is because the shrink tubing is being chafed by the loco frame and cover. Maybe a mini connector between the two units that unplug that may even look more realistic.
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