I have a bunch of blue transformers from various years....
... recently got a "super" transformer from 50s, I believe, but most of others are much more recent.

I read somewhere on the forum that the older blue ones have had issues.
Can anyone document these issues from personal experience or close experience i.e. a reliable source.

I would love to use them and keep them going, but would like to know if they could damage equipment and locos or not.

- Mark

Hi,

it is a trap, that the power-cables of the 280 look like perfect-condition from outside, even if the insulation of the wires inside the rubber-coat and inside the box is decomposed fully. The worst part is often found just at the point were the cable goes through the box. Maybe there is a kind of long-term reaction with the paint.

Regards

Markus

Mark,

Mostly in repetition of above:

I had a couple of posts a few months ago discussing the issue due to my own ignorance. The end result is that if you have locos with Delta or Digital decoders of any kind (locos of 34xx, 36xx, 37xx, or almost all 5 digit part numbers), you don't want to run them with any kind of blue transformer. As stated, the maximum speed voltage and also reverse pulse voltage may be too high for the decoders, which will fry them and leave you with some heavy paperweights.

I purchased four new 6646 white/grey transformers for running tracks on my layout. I previously had three 6627 blue/red transformers. My personal feeling is that the 6667 (16va)/6627 (30va) generation of transformers would be fine for any analog locos and safe in that regard, but not for delta/digital. I have had these transformers for years and they seem to be reliable. I think they have been designed and manufactured in a new enough era to have the correct saftey protocols, so that if anything they will stop working but not present a risk. My gut instinct is to not trust anything older than these. My plan is to use them if I need auxiliary accessory power (also previously stated), but with four 32va white transforms I don't think I'll get there :)

One small bonus of the "new" 6646 (110v)/6647 (230v) transformers is that they are smaller and lighter than the older versions. I also like the connections that just require a bare wire, and not a plug on the end. However, they are still not polarized, so if you are setting up a layout with multiple transformers you will need to set this up. It's not hard, but very necessary.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I think it's a good idea to keep a fire extinguisher in the "train" room, just in case.

-Brandon

Thanks for comments gentlemen,

I have used my blue 30VA with two digital loks and they worked beautifully.
I was surprised how they also reversed seamlessly when in analog mode as they interpret the reversing high-voltage in the decoder and reverse as they should, without the jumping that the poorly adjusted tension spring in analog loks lend themselves to.

Other than the high-voltage in reverse, I don't understand how they can be too high voltage when my 6002 is 52VA.
Is it a question of how the voltage is applied? Can anyone with electrical knowledge explain that?

I have not yet tried using my 6002, nor the 6021 compliment, which is sitting here in styro box besides me.

I also wanted to know is if the blue transformers would work to add power to a large layout in series with digital,
as long as they were "locked-down" in a fixed high-speed position, thus applying adequate VA to compliment.
If not the blue ones, what about the newer white ones? I will need notes on polarizing too. I saw something the EE had in their literature about polarizing the current, but will have to check again.

I do appreciate your comments about the insulator and would like to know if I got an electrician to take a good look at them, that they may be useful. I have 7 of these, three are 30VA-6115 and the old "Marklin Super" 280, one is 16VA-6507 (immaculate condition), and three some are much newer 10VA (I am not sure about the correct numbers but one says 37547, another 37549, these two of have dials in mediocre condition).

However, if that is too much work and too risky, I might consider investing in newer transformers, but I will see what I can do to use my blue meanies safely with analog equipment. Tom, I do see how the rapid short-circuit switch off in the 6647 is a great advantage.

Brandon can drive his firetruck when he comes to visit, and bring up the hose and extinguisher so at least he will be safe.

- Mark

Kev,
I will need to get out my Railroader Geek Glossary again, or you can explain to me what "Titans" are and why they give you a big grin.

- Mark

Hi Mark,all

>I will need to get out my Railroader Geek Glossary again,<


I think we need one here,......


> or you can explain to me what "Titans" are and why they give you a big grin. <

Titan is a German firm that made wonderful model railroad transformers.They were(in the 1990's) more powerful and cheaper that the 6001 Märklin's.
Plus they had a secondary winding at 14V for accessories.Thus you could power a CU/booster and use it for lighting.

Dr D

Suppose the transformer was made for 220 V input voltage, 16 V output voltage and 30 VA.
With an input voltage of exactly 220 V and a load of exactly 30 VA you should get exactly 16 V output voltage.
Higher input voltage (230 V instead of 220 V - or 120 V instead of 110 V for America) gives higher output voltage.
Smaller load than 30 VA gives higher output voltage.

Reversing voltage is a different matter: I presume they gave the transformers a few extra volts to prevent locos from leaping even if there are not enough feeder wires. I get 30 V reversing voltage from a blue transformer, but only 25 V from the grey ones. For the decoder this makes a difference of 7 V due to rectifying inside the decoder.

With my blue transformers, the light voltage is only 1 or 2 V higher than with the grey ones. A voltage of 5 % more reduces the lifetime of light bulbs by 50 %, other consumers will also suffer reduced longevity.
So in the long run you may waste money using blue transformers instead of grey ones.
OTOH you can connect lights to brown and red and set the throttle to about 75 %. Light bulbs last longer if voltage is lower than their specification.

Hi,

not to be misunderstood: I love these old transformers, and I like the push-botton-reversing. So they are worth to be checked. But they even must be checked if they still have their first cord.

Regards

Markus

Beware, they 9older blue transformers) usually have very deteriorated insulation on the wires on the inside. Every blue one that I've gotten I have had to re-wire the inside. The insulation will usually fall apart in your hand when you touch it. Fortunately they are easy to re-wire. Otherwise as per previous posts.

Regards, Kevin

Very interesting Tom, I never thought of that. It makes complete sense though.

Cheers,
Rick

Mark et al,
I use the old transformers on a seperate circuit to run all the accessories on my digital setup. I too had to rewire the inside as the insulation was falling apart. Nice to see the old Blues working again...reminds me of my childhood setup.
Regards,
Peter

Just for the record, some time ago I was running a fav. digital locomotive, a grey Franco-Crosti insider model 39160, and I was using a Blue Transformer.

The track was short circuited with a derailment I think and seems to have fried the decoder.
Some of us thick skulls have to learn the hard way I guess.

OT: Can anyone suggest a decoder with sound that would be an appropriate replacement?

Here is a photo of the same locomotive that Davy posted earlier:
http://desmond.imageshac...0074.jpg&res=landing

Any ideas? I have never purchased a chip/decoder to replace before. But I do have soldering skills, its just been years since I used them.

- Mark

Edited by user 28 September 2012 04:21:06(UTC)  | Reason: (number corrected in edit)

hi, i dont know if there is another grey br42 franco crosti other than 39160, but i have found this video on you tube



it shows one with sound and mfx
perhaps you could ask the guy who uploaded it how he has done the conversion

nice page Tom.....although a little expensive, it seems to be a great upgrade for locos, perhaps i will give it a try later for some old loco without a motor upgrade yet.

I have gone back to playing with Marklin trains after a 44-year absence. That is a fact.

A couple of weeks ago I got a very nice-looking metal blue transformer, the same (almost) as the one my father and I used to play with 44 years ago. I loved it, just for the nostalgia.

HOWEVER, it got overheated to the point of becoming almost hot after keeping it on (plugged in, not necessarily using it) for about 90 minutes.

I returned it to the store and got another blue transformer, lighter blue, made of plastic, but Ontario Hydro-certified.

Works just fine, no overheating.

The store owner told me he will not even bother to fix the old one (I might have been willing to exchange it for the present one).

Since I do not wish to have to use/buy a fire extinguisher when I play with the trains, I will hang on to this one.

I use strictly nostalgia vintage trains, M tracks, of course.

Hope this helps a bit.

Thanks again Francisco. Left a message/comment under the video.

Does anyone know where I can find a good guide to rewire a 280 and some 6xxx?

My father owns several of those and after reading this thread I will have to rewire those.


Thanks
Void

Thanks Mike,

I have been in touch with the other Mike at Westend Trains, ordered a few things and have found his service excellent.

Now I have a quite a collection of transformers including 4 white 6646 along with a stack of old blue ones which I hope to go over and change any frayed cables myself.
Have yet to open one...

Thanks for the explanation on the push-type reversal mechanism as opposed to the past-zero type.
I had always wondered why. Now I see it makes perfect sense.

- Mark

Thank you for the links Mark.

My father has 2 or 3 Supers and other blues. But I don't know the numbers of those.



I already bought 2MM multistrand copper cable and some PC power supply cables.


A silly question, do super and other blue transformers have a ground connection?

I ment ground as connection to the earth :)
I'll just connect the ground cable to the metal in the box.
That should work.



Portugal is a great place to live :)
Why did you leave?

If the decoder fries the loco won't run at all. Sometimes it's possible that one or other of the output transistors on the decoder might have blown. In this case it might be that the loco will run in one direction but not the other. This happened to me on a loco with a 6090 decoder. I replaced it with a 60902 and it works fine since.

In some countries, New Zealand for example, older transformers were supplied as 220v versions, as that was the mains voltage in Germany at the time. Using those transformers here, with our higher mains voltage of 240v meant that the output voltage from the transformer was higher.

I don't know the situation for US supplied transformers, whether there are some specified for 110v (or lower than 120v) but be aware of this and check the rating on the transformer before you use them.

I have a couple of blue 40va lighting transformers from the 1980's which are rated for 220v. They work OK, but will give a higher output voltage.

Decoder danger aside, it might be a good time to review this article and check your own units...

https://www.marklin-user...r-Danger.aspx#post389037

Cheers

Cookee

Hi all,

If the mains-flex is PVC then you should be fine, the cords I'm referring to are the older rubber type, used on metal case trafos from the 50's. But even PVC may prove to have a finite life span, only time will tell.

For now I would say that plastic case trafos should be ok.

Cheers

Cookee