Thanks Steven.

We pay a little bit more, but it could have been worse. At least there are new models for us to buy!

Hey Tim,

I thought I'd check out those prices. Lokshop price for a Roco 110.3 is 192.60. That's 10 euro cheaper than the Marklin price you quote. Not exactly significant.

I'll stick with Marklin.

This now makes Lokshop more expensive as they charge an extra 3% for credit card payment.
As said this now makes Brawa worth more purchases and Roco cheaper although i dont like plastic.
Looks like Lokshop will now lose my business.

dave

Thanks, Tom..
Will do that.

I love that Austian electric. I have to think about that one seriously! Peter

I dont see how Marklin can get away with this but even worse is it will reduce their sales which shows just how poor their thinking is. Marklins profit is selling to the trade what the trade sells at is their business and the lower the price the more Marklin makes in their sales.
Anyway I have no problem buying model rail other than I look for value and if that is not thre then I do not buy. Marklin of late are not so reliable and as said above their motors are back to being on the noisy side along with their gears. Brawa and Roco run smoothly and silently. Brawa is more expensive but their metal models are well detailed and the firm gives great support to their customers thus creating better value that Marklin. Roco is plastic but well detailed but for me plastic is not great. HAG are more expensive and the firm gives little support and the range hardly changes and there is little value in ther models .. they do run well and have good detail though.
Basically cash is not a problem but I am not spending a lot on what is a cheap item to make ( just cost a rake of coaches with lighting units and sliders ) and buy a new DVD player or TV set and compare what you have for your cash. That shows value when looking at the components etc plus what the product does.
I like three rail and I like Marklin but three rail comes first and providing the service is good I buy from the cheapest dealer.
I know Marklin folk on the forum will pay any price and defend Marklin with their dying breath and I have no problem with that as it keeps the firm going but a futher 10% in addition to the usual yearly increase makes the hobby expensive for many new folk to model rail. Just looki at the price of the CS2 ... is it worth paying that now? I reckon it is 150 euros overpriced ( and thats the discount price at Lokshop)
However I have plenty of locos and track so I can choose with care what I will buy and that now includes all the other manufacturers.

dave

Hi Dave,
Marklin EBIT result for 2011 will make an interesting conversation as to whether their strategy pays off.

My only thinking at the moment is just to avoid 2011 items like plague and to stock up on the well discounted 2010 or before items. This is not difficult for me considering the pathetic product range and their "policy" for 2011.

Surely, in time, Marklin will discontinued these older items and soon we'll have the entire range confirming to 10% discount prices.

It remains to be seen whether they will hike up the prices for C-tracks and K-tracks (this will be about 12.5% hike from current price) - now that will put a dent in people's pocket as Marklin held a monopoly over track supply.

But if they do hike up the prices, hopefully something like Peco could step in and start offering 3-rail tracks.

Since the new "policy" announcement, I do look up the Brawa and Roco product offering more closely. Once the discounted previous years items ran out, these, by default, will be my preferred suppliers simply because of good recommendations that I heard; and also they haven't pissed me off nearly enough as opposed to the arrogant Marklin.

In all, I regret having symphatized with Marklin during the insolvency period.

Rather than addressing the too-expensive pricing of Marklin abroad, they chose to "force" increase on German prices to close this widening gap.

This is IMO completely delusional and already tells a lot about this company.

ETS are yet to post their 2011 prices. It will be interesting to see what they do, since they defied Marklin over the 37993 Big Boy.

But realistically, I'm not expecting anything more than 10%.

Dealers are required to enter into a legal contract with Marklin for the right to call themselves "Official Marklin Dealers". Both parties to the contract will have to adhere to certain conditions, and one of these is for a fixed price structure. This is necessary for Marklin to ensure that the dealers who represent them are serious in their obligations to both Marklin and the customers.

The official price and allowable discount should not prevent dealers from making "special offers" available for end of line clearances, new year sales, etc. I'm sure this is not the intention from Marklin.

Marklin has every right to try to ensure that "back room" dealers do not undercut their official dealers on price by setting maximum discount rates as they have done. I'm no lawyer, but I'm guessing they have in house lawyers themselves who have made sure it's legal to include such clauses in their dealer contracts.

Hi Dave,
AFAIK Lokshop is also an officially registered dealer for Brawa and Roco.

They actually have no right at all to do this. They can differentiate the discount they give to their customers, but they cannot tell them what prices they should use towards the end-customer.
Another thing is what can be proved in a court of law. I guess nothing of this is written down on a paper.

I think Märklin has been "forced" to do this by the many small shops suffering from bad profitability. Even Karl Marx wouldn't argue against the fact that higher prices leads to lower demand. So if they don't change their margin towards the shops, this can only hurt Märklin. I guess they think that the small shops are important for the future, but I think they are wrong. How shall a shrinking MOBA-business be able to support all this small shops with employees and high rents? No matter how nice they may have been, they are a thing of the past...
The only reason to buy in a shop is that you can have a look at your model to see that it doesn't have any flaws. And that hardly shouldn't be necessary in the first place!

Well, I can live with this. The swedish currency is strong and I have money to spend. With Märklin it's a different story. It will cost them in the short run and in the long run it will give them nothing!

/Torbjörn

You capture the basic economics nicely..
I guess Marklin will just have to learn it the hard way.

Personally, I'm putting 3 year moratorium on any items affected by the "new pricing".
Maybe by then, the inflation rate had caught up with Marklin's 12.5% hike and I can find this "new pricing" more reasonable.

Just my 2 cents. Let's compare apples with apples, all prices RRP (I doubt percent discounts this year will vary much between brands):

Roco BR 50.40, AC with sound, 399€. Märklin BR 50.40 Insider, AC with sound mfx, 429€

Roco: plastic body, metal frame, can motor in the tender, speaker in the boiler, Loksound. Märklin: metal body, metal frame, Maxon motor in the boiler, speaker in the tender.

Since Brawa and Märklin and Brawa don't overlap models, I'll compare the BR 19.1 with the BR 01 (they did the same job in real life)

Brawa BR 19.1, AC with sound, 599€. Märklin BR 01, AC with sound mfx, 419,95€

Brawa: metal body, metal frame, can motor in the boiler, speaker in the tender, Loksound. Märklin: metal body, metal frame, SDS motor in the boiler, speaker in the tender.

Roco 110.3, AC no sound, 214€, Märklin 110.3, AC mfx with sound (not "full" sound) 269,95€

Roco: plastic body, metal frame, can motor, Lokpilot. Märklin: metal body, metal frame, mfx, can (unknown type) or SDS motor

Roco ET91, AC no sound, 214€. Märklin ET91, AC mfx with sound (not "full" sound),299,95€

Roco: all plastic, can motor,Lokpilot. Märklin: all plastic, can motor (I feel that here, M version is way overpriced)


If we go Fleischmann, prices are usually higher than Roco's and similar or more expensive than Märklin's in the same or comparable models.

BTW, I will also not buy motor-downgraded models at the same price as before, but will not go Roco to compensate. I'll go for the older versions.

As for the change from SDS to bell-shaped-armature motors, i.e., Maxon, Faulhaber, Portescap, I'm all for it.

So, take your pick, but I do believe that Märklin has still, generally a better price/quality ratio than the competitors, in most cases, the ET91 being a notable exception.

Corrected! Thanks.

As I previously said, I will be still buying Marklin. It's just with all the price rises and limiting of discounts, it won't be as much Marklin as before. The budget only goes so far.

..........

Hi Ray. Still interested in three rail as much as ever but will now spread my buying around.. I like Brawa as they are better detailed and do run very well and although more expensive they ( in my view only of course)give better value for my cash.
I can buy Brawa cheaper elsewhere than Lokshop and as a firm Brawa are good with their customers. I get their new items leaflet posted to me free each year and any email is replied to within 48 hours and give a full answer to any question I may have. Take your point though that Marklin is still cheaper.

dave

May I ask a question?

I have looked at BEMO as they offer some HO items in AC and DC.
Specifically I have been considering BEMO 1593411 SBB Ed 2x2/2 Mallet steam locomotive - Metal Collection AC Digital.
It costs $873.55 USD from a retailer in New York City.
Are there any EU dealers that offer this with a discount?
Are there any members that run BEMO engines?
I'm interested in your experience with this brand.

Thanks for your feedback.

Robert

Is Marklin's pricing policy any different than Apple? I don't know the specifics of Apple's policy but here in Canada if you want an iPod Touch 8G it is $249 no matter where you go. They never go on sale for more than $10 off. Even big discount and all powerful Walmart only drops it to $248. It seems that Apple has set the price for this item and retailers are not allowed to deviate from it. I have heard that Apple will punish a retailer that does not follow the Apple pricing plan. Just don't get me started about the iPhone and Canadian cellular providers.

Is Marklin trying to help some of the smaller dealers by not allowing bigger suppliers like Lokshop to do deep discounts? In this new world of internet selling there are new challenges for the brick and mortar dealer shops.

Just my 2 cents...

Darren

Fixing prices has been tried here in the UK but never successful Even a big oil company tried to get their petrol stations to sell at the same price but the Government clamped down immediately. Imagine if Shell Oil said to its garages if you dont sell at a set price you will get late deliveries of petrol.
Same goes for other smaller supliers who have tried but it is illegal and just cant be done. Some retailers have also tried to fix prices but they also failed.
What we are up against is a toy and nobody really cares what price the toys are sold at and in any event it is a product that is not necessary for anybody to buy (except us daft folk here of course).
Anybody working for me who came up with this idea would be out the door pretty quick. Telling your retailers what price you can sell at and saying you will get late deliveries if you dont has to come from somebody who is completely stupid. I presume Marklin now have a department that will hold goods back for several weeks from dealers they dont like and of course from the end customer ...you and me.
I appreciate that smaller shops may not be able to compete with Lokshop or other big dealers but it is the Lokshops of this world that make Marklin their money.
If I were Marklin I would ensure that all sellers must have a shop open to the public at least 6 days per week. This would cut out the spare bedroom ebay sellers and give those who invest in the business a better return.
If I manufacture then the cheaper my goods are sold to the public the more I will sell. We will see at the end of the next financial year just how much lower Marklins sales are and from comments above members here will not spend as much this year.

dave

Yep, you're right Tim. If you are 'in the know' with a particular dealer, you may well get a better discount. But for the average customer, they aren't going to know that, there will be not much 'point of difference' between any of the dealers.

If produced in Europe, the delivery dates may be somewhat accurate - But if waiting for a "slow boat from China", you can never tell...

Well known empirical statistic fact for seasoned customers in the last few years...

When will that be Lutz.?? got a date? {no grin]

Thanks Ray.
Nev

Well, the only schedule we have had for the delivery of the 2011 New Items is the one on the Marklin NL site. If you take the time to read it you will note that the 30050 Br23 was scheduled for delivery in January. It is now mid February and we don't have it yet, so I would suggest that Märklin apparently seems to not have a clue when to produce those two or any other models.


And if you have any other information contrary to the Marklin NL list, please be so kind as to share it with your fellow forum members.

Edited by user 13 February 2011 21:14:39(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

The 2011 new item delivery list not on Marklin German website but only 2010 new item list date back to 2011.

http://www.maerklin.de/d...iefertermine_preise.html