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Henschel - Wegmann: aka another Maerklin failure
Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
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I tried a few things, but when I turn regulation on, the lok simply accelerates to max instantly and stops instantly aftewr a long delay to respond to the command.
Further, I also found out that the decoder sound memory is write protected, since I tried to upload a new sound image (I don't like the factory uploaded sound), but the decoder didn't let me too.
I also tried to check the firmware to see if it needed the latest ESU upgrade and it didn't let me do it either.
I'm getting annoyed.....
Luis
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 Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY
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Poor Luis [B)] - any chances to get your cash back ? |
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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 Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616
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Hi Luis, Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:originally posted by Luis: I read the decoder data of my BR 61 and was surprised to find out the following parameters:
Regulation influence: 0%
Regulation reference: 25V
Regulation parameter K: 1
Regulation parameter I: 100
All in all, it means that the BR 61's load regulation is turned off.
Any thoughts? Is decoder load regulation irrelevant for c-sine loks? Is it the motor driver doing the load regulation? Can anyone verify what are the regulation settings in other BR 61s and any other mfx c-sine loks (this is the only one I have)?
Interesting observations. I have to dig deep into my knowledge of electric motors. For all I know the motor driver does the load regulation.It's a bit like the direct drive turntables of a few decades ago, the ones with the Hall sensors giving the feedback signal. The way I understand the priniple of these C-sine motors,is that they are basically constant speed drivers. Correct me if I'm wrong please as I'm sure you have far more knowledge on this subject than I. Kind regards Guus corrected:17:52 |
Kind regards,
Guus |
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Joined: 06/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,383
Location: Darmstadt,
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Guus
<br />Hi Luis,
Interesting observations.
I have to dig deep into my knowledge of electric motors.
For all I know the motor driver does the load regulation.It's a bit like the direct drive turntables of a few decades ago, the ones with the Hall sensors giving the feedback signal.
The way I understand the priniple of these C-sine motors,is that they are basically constant speed drivers.
Correct me if I'm wrong please as I'm sure you have far more knowledge on this subject than me.
Kind regards
Guus
Yes I agree. I don't have a C-Sine loco, but as I understand the concept of this motor, it simply does not need any load regulation as it won't get slower under load. It then consumes more current, but still runs on the preselected speed. When the load exceeds a certain point, the motor simply stops. Quite different behaviour than 5* or Can motor. Hans Martin
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Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
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Mmmmm.... you guys are on the point, I guess. By principle the c-sine motors is a constant speed motor, being in fact a stepper motor. This stepper characteristic explains the slight startup jerkiness of all c-sine loks I have.
So, no need for load regulated decoders. And come to think of it, no need for PWM either! Which means that, as long as the correct driver interface is used, one could even use an old Delta decoder (with the handful of components needed to use it to control DC motors), or any older, non regulated decoder, to drive a c-sine motor!
Luis
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Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:originally posted by Luis:
This stepper characteristic explains the slight startup jerkiness of all c-sine loks I have.
Yes although I find its hardly noticeable with the old type of C-sine engine due to its large rotor,which acts as a flywheel. The newer type comes in various guises, either with or without an external flywheel. Funny when you think of it. The engine designers make every effort to keep the inertia of the motor as low as possible and the train manufacturers put in a flywheel in order to make it more suitable for their locos. Kind regards Guus |
Kind regards,
Guus |
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Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
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Very simple reason.
For any loco with C-Sine motor, the driver pcb directly performs the load regulation; independent from the decoder.
That's why you'll find the load regulation parameters of the decoder being turned off at all models with such a combination; i.e. for example as well at the MWB Taurus (#39834) or the Imotrans V200 (#39820), etc.
In order to have this combination work properly, the driver pcb also needs an additional output line from the decoder.
Regards,
Lutz
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Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich
<br />In order to have this combination work properly, the driver pcb also needs an additional output line from the decoder.
Hi Lutz, What output line? Luis
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 Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,594 Location: Australia
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by laalves
<br />...This stepper characteristic explains the slight startup jerkiness of all c-sine loks I have.... That's odd.. I have several C-sines 39104, 39601, 39604, 39607 and 39610 none of them exhibit jerkiness on startup.. Their abiliy to run smoothly on grades at very low settings is nothing short of amazing to me.. [^] The 37xxx series certainly has startup jerkiness on very slow speeds - the lighter the model the more noticable the problem... However, they still run much better than Deltas or very old digitals (eg 3665).. |
Adrian Australia flag by abFlags.com |
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Joined: 07/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 36
Location: Antwerp,
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I just bought a new in box set. When testing on my layout it can't cope a 3% slope, the wheels begin to spinn. Anyone similar problems?
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Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: I just bought a new in box set. When testing on my layout it can't cope a 3% slope, the wheels begin to spinn. Anyone similar problems? Haven't had this problem however I'll test mine again this weekend. Keep you posted. Kind regards Guus |
Kind regards,
Guus |
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Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616
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Hi VT95,
Today I did a test with the HWZ pulling up a ramp with a slope of 3degrees and and one of 4 degrees.
The loco had no problem whatsoever going up these grades.It pulled the complete train and still has power left to pull some more waggons.
I used a temporary test track made up of C-track supported by a piece of particleboard.
Are your antislip tyres still in good shape?No hardened rubber?
Hope you'll find what's troubling your loco.
Kind regards
Guus
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Kind regards,
Guus |
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Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,159
Location: The Netherlands
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To complete Guus:
1) Are the traction tyres not hard or dirty?
2) Are the tracks clean. No dirt or oil on the tracks?
3) Are there no loose items in the gearing of the locomotive? |
Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-) |
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Joined: 07/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 36
Location: Antwerp,
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Yhanks for the advise guys.
I cleaned the tires and the track of oil. A little improvement but not much.
Since the t slope is still under construction i have lowered it to the point where the loc can take it. The loc still has sicgnifficant less grip as my other locs though. Could there be something wrong with the rubber tyres, it is a brand new loc.
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 Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,448 Location: Italy
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Hi friends, any suggestion to resolve the behaviour of some trucks of the coaches? After a bend they don't return straight! [:(] Oil doesn't work.  |
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Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,165
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Some added weight maybe? The coaches are awfully light... |
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb] |
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Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,448 Location: Italy
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Thanks Juhan, but I have mistaked word [:I], I meant the skirts (right?), the trucks are ok. |
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Joined: 07/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 36
Location: Antwerp,
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I know the problem....
The HW set is a least 200€ overpriced.
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 Joined: 25/11/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,106 Location: Guelph, Ontario
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Hello Alberto,
Please do not use oil on these skirts, Plastic does not take kindly to Oil ( it has a tendency to expand ).
A silicon Spray may be the answer however it may also be possible to fix the skirt to the boogie ( trucks ).
Someone here might have a better solution.
Martin
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marklin-eh |
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Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,165
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So the skirts are not mounted fixed to the trucks??? Sighhh....
I haven't run mine yet (no layout) but if that is the case, it seems like a very bad engineering solution indeed... |
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb] |
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Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,159
Location: The Netherlands
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Could this train be old Rivarossi or Lilliput tooling ?   |
Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-) |
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Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by almagik
<br />Hi friends,
any suggestion to resolve the behaviour of some trucks of the coaches?
After a bend they don't return straight! [:(]
Oil doesn't work.
Known problem (warranty case - as long as Märklin doesn't determine that the oiling caused your problem).
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Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,448 Location: Italy
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich
Known problem (warranty case - as long as Märklin doesn't determine that the oiling caused your problem).
Thanks Lutz, I'll try to benefit of the warranty. Faller oil don't damage plastic... |
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Joined: 21/07/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,358 Location: Houston, Texas
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What a piece of crap that Henschel-Wegmann turned out to be! I think that all of us "insiders" who got screwed by Mäklin with this set should write a letter to demand that our models be taken back for a credit or refund.
Sorry, but I cannot have any nicer words regarding this H-W issue.
Armando |
Best regards,
Armando García
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Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,448 Location: Italy
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HWZ returned home repaired, now the skirts behaviour is correct.  Now I have a couple of questions. Did anyone paint the violet curtain of the cab in black? Is it possible change the synchronization of sound by the CS (I don't have it), mine sound too much ciuff ciuff every wheel turn, I think. here the last pics of the train   |
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Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
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I removed the cab curtains altogether. I think it looks a bit more natural.
Luís
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 Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,692 Location: United Kingdom
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Very nice,thanks for showing the pictures. |
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy. |
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Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,448 Location: Italy
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by laalves
<br />I removed the cab curtains altogether. I think it looks a bit more natural.
Luís
It could be a solution, thanks Luìs. |
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