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sudibarba		#1 Posted : 19 June 2007 05:31:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC) Posts: 880 Location: Augusta, GA USA		I see that LSMODELS in conjunction with Railtop are issuing a Northlander 4 unit rail train in Dec 07. It will be available in DC & AC with decoder. About US $ 420 at this point. Anyone have any experience with these brands? Any thoughts if Marklin will reissue a Northlander? I will never pay what the old ones go for so I will probably pre order one unless I hear huge negatives. Thanks, Eric
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arne		#2 Posted : 19 June 2007 06:08:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC) Posts: 69 Location: ,		Never heard anything positive nor negative about that brand before. And never used it myslef. The Northlander #37500 is still available as new/boxed somewhere. But it's up on around the $11-1300 USD. Which is a bit expensive, yea. One of my train friends who was lucky to collect the #37500 while it was available, got it for around $200 USD, calculated around as the currency is right now. :)
		Arne Märklin H0, C & M Track, with Uhlenbrock's quality power and control.
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Vardex		#3 Posted : 19 June 2007 12:06:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 26/01/2006(UTC) Posts: 402 Location: vlaardingen,		LS models is a good brand, quality is like roco. But.... my dealer said he isn"t convinced about the lifespan of their plastics. Models are made in china, and it seems chinese plastics harden with age. This can be seen on some piko models also. I asked him if he had any negative experience with LS models, and the answer was "no". Still I think you should wait for the trix and roco model, I am sure they also will bring out the northlander. Or do the same as I, and just order it from LS... Also check their website, or even better railtop. http://www.railtronic.ch/html/guckloch.html http://www.railtronic.ch/html/sbb_ns-ram.html Bart
		www.lokpaint.com
		WWW
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PierreGILLARD		#4 Posted : 19 June 2007 17:27:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/11/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,346 Location: Longueuil, Quebec		A Märklin revamped Northlander is definitively on my wishlist. [:p] Hope makes life ! I will however have a look on models from other brands. Further details about LS Models' Northlander here. Thanks for the information, Eric. I have good experience with LS Models cars till now ... even if I only own 4 of their passenger cars : report about SNCB cars. Pierre.
		WWW BLOG
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ulf999		#5 Posted : 19 June 2007 22:08:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/05/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,908 Location: Stockholm, Sweden		I like the options . links bookmarked...
		Ulf, American HO. www.goldenvalleyroute.com/
		WWW
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Sander van Wijk		#6 Posted : 19 June 2007 23:55:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,248 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,		I wonder whether anyone has experience with parts deliveries of this brand? I personally consider it to be almost just as important as the lifespan of their plastics as having the opportunity to get a spare can overcome issues like a short lifespan of part (or a little accident, or wear or something like that.) After some rather bad experiences with Mehano parts, I'm appreciating a good parts service even more...
		Sander --- Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
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jonquinn		#7 Posted : 20 June 2007 05:15:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,591 Location: Pennsylvania		how much worse can it be for $400 US? after the marklin northlander is nothing more than an overpriced hunk of poorly detailed plastic. at least with the 37500 set the F7 is metal, but it is way overpriced otherwise. I am considering one of the Roco or maybe the LS TEE trains (maybe a northlander). supposedly the new Trix edition is still plastic. Roco's run nice and smooth too.
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Larry		#8 Posted : 21 June 2007 10:02:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,443 Location: Northeast Ohio		Yikkes. How could this model be worst in terms of plastic than some of the older Marklin plastic models? The quality of the plastic on the older Marklin's was so horrible it would actually warp. Hard to believe, but true. Then they look like a "banana" Marklin train. Can't get much worse quality than that from Maerklin or anyone else.
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steventrain		#9 Posted : 21 June 2007 16:38:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,610 Location: United Kingdom		Very nice,Thanks for the information.
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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sudibarba		#10 Posted : 25 June 2007 03:23:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC) Posts: 880 Location: Augusta, GA USA		The company I work for does a lot of injection molding. Anywhere from 80 ton to 1000 ton presses. I am in the finance area and know the product cost for molded parts. If any company is using incorrect resins or too much regrind - I would be suprised if they are - then they are screwing up the simplist part of their manufacturing process. Top quality virgin resins used in a body of a loco cost less than a dollar. Far less. I have to believe that warped parts have been exposed to excessive heat and or sunlight no matter what brand. I don't think these people would risk business over pennies. Eric
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Larry		#11 Posted : 25 June 2007 08:48:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,443 Location: Northeast Ohio		That is helpful, Eric, but the fact is this has been a common problem with the old Northlander models from Marklin. Many of them ended up after time looking like bananas, whether heat induced or not.
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hxmiesa		#12 Posted : 25 June 2007 11:53:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,522 Location: Spain		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by sudibarba I have to believe that warped parts have been exposed to excessive heat and or sunlight no matter what brand. I don't think these people would risk business over pennies. Hm... Warped parts would normally be the result of incorrect cooling. During the cooling phase an injection pressure is normally upheld, and this pressure, together with the cooling time AND type of cooling can be very difficult to determine. Only experienced engineers knows the optimal values for these parameters, together with the type of polymers used. (and the way the tool works and how it is cooled) The heat "cause" the deforming/warping if a part has been cooled incorrectly: What actually happens is that the heat releases inner tensions in the parts. Tensions that are already there because of the incorrect cooling. Sunlight would normally first degrade the colours, later cause brittleness (destruction) of the polymer. Most plastics have been added sunlight-stabilitizers, but these evaporates over the years) No plastic is really capable to stand up against UV-rays.
		Best regards Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain") http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
		WWW
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jonnymac		#13 Posted : 26 June 2007 01:26:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/01/2004(UTC) Posts: 136 Location: ,		I just returned from a short business trip to Belgium and I couldn't resist a couple of non-Marklin items. I brought back the LS Lok Series 13 and a Heris made coach. Very nice pieces for my collection and a reminder of the trip. Here are a couple of pictures - quality not so good but I'm practicing. http://i117.photobucket....mckerracher/IMG_0904.jpg http://i117.photobucket....mckerracher/IMG_0912.jpg http://i117.photobucket....mckerracher/IMG_0918.jpg Rgds, JonnyMac
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sudibarba		#14 Posted : 26 June 2007 03:41:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC) Posts: 880 Location: Augusta, GA USA		I am not a plastics engineer but when I get back from my current trip I will talk to the folks in our corporte tooling engineering department. We buy millions of lbs of resin a year. If the parts are malformed in the molding process they would never be used as they would not fit or pass QC (operator or inspector). Heat and light leach out the plasticisers (spelling?) causing the parts to get brittle etc.At any rate, I will let them enlighten me to the realities of the processing. I do not believe inferior resins or processes are causing downstream problems with other companies products. This was the point I was trying to make. Roco, Pico, LS are all probably making good plastic parts. Marklin does not have any special knowledge of molding. Try making 500 syringe barrels in a mold compared to making toys. Eric
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7gauges		#15 Posted : 26 June 2007 06:49:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/12/2002(UTC) Posts: 328		Actually early RAM models are the only ones affected - the two Northlander sets are just fine, as well as the latest RAM sets (I have the 3071 / 4071, 3150, 37500, 3471 & 39700). Most Marklin plastic models from the 60's into about 1971 are effected by warping - and it has nothing to do with UV or heat (some have never left the box and been stored quite well in a cool dry place - it has to do with volatile stabilizers in the plastics - the key word being volatile - the stabilizers prevent kinking (warping) of the polymer chains - as the volatiles dispate over time the polymer chains kink causing such warping in the body of the model - they can bend metal .... a very interesting process that is effectively irreversible and basivally unavoidable - the newer plastics do not use volatile stabilzers.
		Collecting / Fixing and Running trains since 1966.
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Larry		#16 Posted : 26 June 2007 09:31:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,443 Location: Northeast Ohio		Amazing. I had no idea locos turning into looking like bananas could engender such an interesting dialogue. You guys are amazing and a wealth of knowlege. Any insights as to the existence of mankind? Ah, guess that is another Forum, sorry. Or, the answer is to play with model trains. John - Those Belgium models look great!
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Caplin		#17 Posted : 26 June 2007 14:37:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by 7gauges <br />Actually early RAM models are the only ones affected - the two Northlander sets are just fine, as well as the latest RAM sets (I have the 3071 / 4071, 3150, 37500, 3471 & 39700). Most Marklin plastic models from the 60's into about 1971 are effected by warping - and it has nothing to do with UV or heat (some have never left the box and been stored quite well in a cool dry place - it has to do with volatile stabilizers in the plastics - the key word being volatile - the stabilizers prevent kinking (warping) of the polymer chains - as the volatiles dispate over time the polymer chains kink causing such warping in the body of the model - they can bend metal .... a very interesting process that is effectively irreversible and basivally unavoidable - the newer plastics do not use volatile stabilzers. Hi 7gauges, Thanks for the thorough explanation. Now I know why some of my plastic bodies form the 60's (although Fleischmann) have developed slightly skewed shapes. A typical shape in this picture, the center bottom is raised and the two sides are bended outwards as if a too wide cargo was forced down into it. Actually with this particular wagon I tried to heat up the sides and keep them in line. It was a lot worse before, but it is not perfect.
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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john black		#18 Posted : 26 June 2007 15:18:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Larry <br />I had no idea locos turning into looking like bananas could engender such an interesting dialogue. You guys are amazing ... Ya know, Larry - just use one of the wonder words (BEER, FOOD). And we're singing your tune ...
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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alonso231gery		#19 Posted : 26 June 2007 15:31:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,957 Location: Hellas (Athens)		So the famous northlander was not fully metallic . The item is no more in my wishlist .
		An outsider. I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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sudibarba		#20 Posted : 27 June 2007 05:43:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC) Posts: 880 Location: Augusta, GA USA		Oh well. After all of this I guess I will order the Ls Northlander and take my chances. Eric
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jonnymac		#21 Posted : 27 June 2007 06:17:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/01/2004(UTC) Posts: 136 Location: ,		Here are the other 2 LS items I bought in Belgium. Nice bar stools in the Disco Car! Once again, apologies for the poor photography skills jonnymac http://i117.photobucket....mckerracher/IMG_0911.jpg http://i117.photobucket....mckerracher/IMG_0908.jpg
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hxmiesa		#22 Posted : 27 June 2007 11:20:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,522 Location: Spain		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jonnymac <br />Here are the other 2 LS items I bought in Belgium. Nice bar stools in the Disco Car! Once again, apologies for the poor photography skills http://i117.photobucket....mckerracher/IMG_0911.jpg I suppose it is distortion caused by the camera, but the above picture shows the waggon already heavily "banana´d"!?
		Best regards Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain") http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
		WWW
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jonnymac		#23 Posted : 28 June 2007 22:06:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/01/2004(UTC) Posts: 136 Location: ,		Any distortion is caused by the photographer's skills not the camera and certainly not the wagon. The wagon is a beauty. jonnymac
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