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Offline Ausipeet  
#1 Posted : 23 May 2015 08:36:35(UTC)
Ausipeet

Australia   
Joined: 04/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 311
Location: Adelaide
Just wondering if any members here have taken the plunge into the world of 3D printing as yet, met up with a local here last Wednesday and had some seats made for in a Old style marklin metal passenger Carriage. Have got the Plans from him for the ones he made for me and a more rounded looking plan for a new set aswell am hoping to be able to go to the local Library next week and get some more made up. if any one is interested i can share the SketchUp plans for these if they would like, easy enough to send by email so feel free to ask.



Regards Peter
Ausipeet attached the following image(s):
Fancy Double Seat.jpg
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Ausipeet
Offline Shamu  
#2 Posted : 23 May 2015 09:23:38(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
Hi Peter,

I have started to give serious consideration to lashing out on one myself, for the price of a high end loco it may solve a lot of parts issues but more to the point for buildings. The trouble I'm having tracking down arcades and bridges to go with my Dammtor kit could well justify a 3D printer alone.

What I'm really chasing at the moment is a interior for a 4064 sleeper, I have a English cardstock kit but I'm not that keen on using it if I could find a plastic one instead.

So am I right that your local library has a 3D printer and does items ? If so you lucky sod, no hope of that in NSW that I'm aware of.
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
Offline Ausipeet  
#3 Posted : 23 May 2015 10:24:44(UTC)
Ausipeet

Australia   
Joined: 04/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 311
Location: Adelaide
Hey Shamu ring your local Library and Ask never know they might have them

can you send me a picture of the interior for the coach and perhaps i can look at making one?
Offline kiwiAlan  
#4 Posted : 23 May 2015 13:40:14(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Shamu Go to Quoted Post
Hi Peter,

I have started to give serious consideration to lashing out on one myself, for the price of a high end loco it may solve a lot of parts issues but more to the point for buildings. The trouble I'm having tracking down arcades and bridges to go with my Dammtor kit could well justify a 3D printer alone.

What I'm really chasing at the moment is a interior for a 4064 sleeper, I have a English cardstock kit but I'm not that keen on using it if I could find a plastic one instead.

So am I right that your local library has a 3D printer and does items ? If so you lucky sod, no hope of that in NSW that I'm aware of.


I have thought about it as well, but it doesn't need to cost the equivalent of a loco. Search for 'Peachy Printer' at around US$100 for a kit. It is a kickstarter project that is almost at the point of production - they have a number of units out on beta test, and are still making incremental improvements.

I have some servo mounts that the MERG group here in the UK make for mounting R/C servos as point motors. They have several different designs for doing points, signals, crossing gates, and similar nifty little projects. I am about to start refurbishing a club layout that the club no longer wants, but is too nice to just throw out, and will be using these on it.

Once I have a 3D printer I am sure I will find a lot of 'nifty' little projects for it - it is "just" a case of getting them drawn up in a suitable CAD tool.

thanks 2 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline Shamu  
#5 Posted : 23 May 2015 14:48:33(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
Thanks Alan,

Had a quick squiz and looks interesting but the "resin" bit I'll have to look into. Never actually heard of a resin printer before.
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
Offline kiwiAlan  
#6 Posted : 23 May 2015 16:38:27(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Shamu Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Alan,

Had a quick squiz and looks interesting but the "resin" bit I'll have to look into. Never actually heard of a resin printer before.


The UV annealed resin is the original form of 3D printing (also called stereo lithography). Marklin produce their original hand made samples of loco bodies this way (the first model I know for sure done this way is the streamlined Br05 Insider model, although I believe it had been done for some time before that), and you can sometimes pick it in the photos as the surface has a roughness that shows up as 'orange peel' finish on the paint. Becomes quite obvious when the picture is blown up to full screen size such as the wall paper pictures from the Marklin web site.

The UV annealed resin potentially has a finer resolution than the additive method commonly used on the cheap end 3D printers, although some of those can achieve a very good finish if you are prepared to wait the time to do the print.

thanks 2 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline Shamu  
#7 Posted : 24 May 2015 02:56:50(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
Originally Posted by: Ausipeet Go to Quoted Post
Hey Shamu ring your local Library and Ask never know they might have them

can you send me a picture of the interior for the coach and perhaps i can look at making one?


Would if I could Peter, trouble is I don't have one or even know if "M" made one for the 4064. I'll see if I can find one in my real old "M" yearbooks.

Thanks for the offer though ThumpUp
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
Offline Shamu  
#8 Posted : 24 May 2015 03:02:45(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
The UV annealed resin is the original form of 3D printing (also called stereo lithography). Marklin produce their original hand made samples of loco bodies this way (the first model I know for sure done this way is the streamlined Br05 Insider model, although I believe it had been done for some time before that), and you can sometimes pick it in the photos as the surface has a roughness that shows up as 'orange peel' finish on the paint. Becomes quite obvious when the picture is blown up to full screen size such as the wall paper pictures from the Marklin web site.

The UV annealed resin potentially has a finer resolution than the additive method commonly used on the cheap end 3D printers, although some of those can achieve a very good finish if you are prepared to wait the time to do the print.



Arh, with you now Alan..... didn't read the UV catalyst bit. Hi tech dental resin LOL .

First one along these lines I recall reading about was a bath type.
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
Offline cookee_nz  
#9 Posted : 24 May 2015 09:39:19(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,946
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Shamu Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Ausipeet Go to Quoted Post
Hey Shamu ring your local Library and Ask never know they might have them

can you send me a picture of the interior for the coach and perhaps i can look at making one?


Would if I could Peter, trouble is I don't have one or even know if "M" made one for the 4064. I'll see if I can find one in my real old "M" yearbooks.

Thanks for the offer though ThumpUp


Hi Shane, the 4064 Schlafwagen is a Sleeping Car and I do not recall ever seeing a separate interior kit for a sleeping car. It would of course be beds/bunks, and a corridor partition with doors.

Then you would also have the problem of figures in a sleeping or lying-down pose, and more often than not the blinds would be down so you would not see in anyway.

I would think it not too hard to copy the corridor, and this could be lighted for effect, and the sleeping compartments could have their shades down, or perhaps a couple lighted dimmed to simulate the occupants still up and about.

Can you post up images of the cardstock version you have, it would be interesting to see.

There may be a later version sleeping car (possibly part of a detailed set) with an interior and if anyone has one perhaps some photos of that could give you ideas?

Regards

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 24 May 2015 13:16:38(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Shamu Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
The UV annealed resin is the original form of 3D printing (also called stereo lithography). Marklin produce their original hand made samples of loco bodies this way (the first model I know for sure done this way is the streamlined Br05 Insider model, although I believe it had been done for some time before that), and you can sometimes pick it in the photos as the surface has a roughness that shows up as 'orange peel' finish on the paint. Becomes quite obvious when the picture is blown up to full screen size such as the wall paper pictures from the Marklin web site.

The UV annealed resin potentially has a finer resolution than the additive method commonly used on the cheap end 3D printers, although some of those can achieve a very good finish if you are prepared to wait the time to do the print.



Arh, with you now Alan..... didn't read the UV catalyst bit. Hi tech dental resin LOL .

First one along these lines I recall reading about was a bath type.


Yeah, the normal method has been to have a bath deep enough for the completed printed item, with a table that gets lowered into the bath as each layer is printed. I rather like the Peachy Printer method of dripping the resin into the container at a known rate to set the printing layer height. Reduces the requirement for high accuracy distance measurement in one axis, although I wonder if they can keep the laser diode beam focused over enough distance to do really deep items. But I do like their whole concept of simplifying things to drive it from a sound card, with no special requirements placed on the PC.

Offline madhu.gn.71  
#11 Posted : 21 July 2015 10:12:58(UTC)
madhu.gn.71

India   
Joined: 16/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 738
Location: Bangalore, India
Found this video shared by one of my friends on facebook. Once these printers become affordable, we will be the biggest beneficiaries!

Regards,
Madhu

Edited by user 21 July 2015 14:24:32(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 4 users liked this useful post by madhu.gn.71
Offline GlennM  
#12 Posted : 21 July 2015 12:15:43(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,875
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Great video, very informative.

Even more useful than the printer are the 3D scanners, for those who have never used CAD it is not especially easy and these scanners will open up the 3D world to everyone. Just broken a cat ladder on a model, scan the original and print a new one. Excellent.
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
Offline Legless  
#13 Posted : 22 July 2015 12:49:03(UTC)
Legless

Australia   
Joined: 20/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 809
Location: Leopold, Victoria
In Austraia there will be soon avalable at Bunnings, a 3D printer for approx $200 Aust made by Dremel. See 3Ddremel.com All you do is go to Officeworks with the item you want 3D scaned and they will do a 3D scan then give you the program. Then you put it in you 3D printer program and the printer does the rest. If you don't have an item you want 3D copied then you need a autocad program or similar to do it.
Legless
Era's 1 to 111,C track,k track
Offline Shamu  
#14 Posted : 22 July 2015 13:00:29(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
It sells for $999 in the US so going by the normal Oz tax I'd say your missing a "0" in that price.
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
Offline Legless  
#15 Posted : 23 July 2015 07:03:06(UTC)
Legless

Australia   
Joined: 20/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 809
Location: Leopold, Victoria
Should have been approx $1200
Legless
Era's 1 to 111,C track,k track
Offline kariosls37  
#16 Posted : 10 October 2015 04:30:12(UTC)
kariosls37

New Zealand   
Joined: 02/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,067
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
While I have been quietly modelling, I have dabbled in some 3D printing as well.

I have been using two approaches, depending on the application.

Approach 1 is Shapeways. They are a commercial 3D printing firm where you can upload your models, and get them printed and sent out. Their user interface is pretty good and I have not had any issues with the service.

The two materials of interest to modellers are White, Strong and Flexible. A nylon material, this is reasonably economic but is quite coarse in it's finish. To get a good looking model you have to put a lot of time into sanding surfaces smooth and removing the layering. Good for larger, smooth surfaces but no good on detail. I have seen some 9mill:foot (approx 1 gauge)

The second material is Frosted Ultra Detail, which looks to be something that looks like acrylic. It has a reasonably good surface finish, and with a little finishing work it makes a nice model. However, it is not cheap. A whole H0 wagon would be prohibitively expensive. I have done a couple of detail parts using FUD, and for detail parts it is very worthwhile. Below are the CAD model and finished product for a carriage gas light in S scale, approx 4 mm high.

Pintsch lights - Copy.jpg
Lamps.jpg
20151002_175237.jpg

The second approach is printing in wax, from which an investment casting in brass is made. This is done by a jeweller in Auckland, and is not cheap. I use this process to make durable master models, from which I get the jeweller to produce multiple investment cast copies. I have done a couple of castings this way, the photo below shows a 1:64 coupler. This coupler was drawn from a 1906 (!) blueprint in Autocad, scaled down, the correct shrinkage corrections made and then sent off to get printed and cast. After a bit more testing and the arrival of some etches I will make these available for sale to the local market.


1900's buffer head S CP.bmp
Coupler WHB hoses.jpg
20151008_174136.jpg

A note on buying a 3D printer, unless you are willing to spend tens of thousands on a commercial printer, you are better off not buying one. The commercial printers are only just getting to the point where the detail we expect from our scale models is available at a affordable-ish price. The small printers are not yet capable of producing anywhere near the detail that a decent model requires. As the technology and materials develop in the next couple of years this will probably change, but it's not quite there yet.

The other side of 3D printing is the drawings. This does not get as much attention, but is just as important. I am fortunate that my background is engineering, and have training on CAD software. I use AutoCAD 2013, which is quite cumbersome to work with in 3D, but is the only thing my basic laptop can handle. If I had something more powerful I would have used Solidworks. I also have access to a good collection of original blueprints and blueprint scans. Good drawings or measurements are almost indispensible if you want to make a good (3D) model. Suitable software is also a great help, it makes life much easier if you draw your models by specifying dimension a, b, and c rather than dragging and fudging until something looks right. The old saying of rubbish in = rubbish out applies here.

If you can draw on a computer and want to give it a try, I would suggest to give Shapeways a try. The website will tell you if the model will print beforehand, and will tell you the issues if there are any.

Alternatively, if computer drawing is not your thing, do a search for HO models on Shapeways, there is a lot of stuff out there you can order, and try the 3D printing technology out.

Cheers,

Rick
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#17 Posted : 10 October 2015 07:35:12(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,659
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Legless Go to Quoted Post
Should have been approx $1200


I was going to say.......$200, where do I sign up!?? I saw the Dremmel 3D printer in Mitre10 last weekend, NZ price is $1699. Looks a nice printer though.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#18 Posted : 10 October 2015 07:40:37(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,659
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: kariosls37 Go to Quoted Post
If I had something more powerful I would have used Solidworks.


I've had a bit of a play with Solidworks 2014. Drawing a 2D shape is easy enough, but creating a 3D drawing is not so easy - the program has so many features and options, and they are not always intuitive to use.

Offline Shamu  
#19 Posted : 11 October 2015 04:14:21(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
For Ausipeet, Cookee_nz and the others that asked.

Sorry guys but only just stumbled across it while packing things away for the over the rainbow move..... not the best but don't want to upset the trolley cart by providing a usable item. Wink RollEyes

Sleeper Card Stock Kit 2a.jpg

Its from a mob in the UK called "Laurence Hogg Productions" in the West Midlands, got it via ebay UK for about 5 pounds from memory, mind you that was around 4 or more years ago Blushing. "lhpmedia" I think they are called on ebay Confused

One sheet, the bottom one in the scan is thin cardstock, the top one is a thin sheet of adhesive backed stick on type paper. They are meant for UK type 1st/2nd class sleeper coaches but I thought it would provide a basis for a bodged up interior for my old 4064 sleeper.
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
Offline Mark5  
#20 Posted : 13 October 2015 01:22:32(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Wonderful to see your work Rick!

When I was at some workshops at the Big E MMR show in Springfield Mass, one of the presenters gave out coupons for a small 3-D printer about a 10 inch cubed for $400. Did an ok job, but still not good enough to do a set of imitation Preiserlings, which is what I want. They also referred us to shapeways. Do you know of anyone out there who could do somewhat accurate quality for 1:87 people?

- Mark

BTW what is FUD?

Originally Posted by: kariosls37 Go to Quoted Post
....

Approach 1 is Shapeways. ....

The two materials of interest to modellers are White, Strong and Flexible. A nylon material, this is reasonably economic but is quite coarse in it's finish. To get a good looking model you have to put a lot of time into sanding surfaces smooth and removing the layering. Good for larger, smooth surfaces but no good on detail. I have seen some 9mill:foot (approx 1 gauge)

The second material is Frosted Ultra Detail, which looks to be something that looks like acrylic. It has a reasonably good surface finish, and with a little finishing work it makes a nice model. However, it is not cheap. A whole H0 wagon would be prohibitively expensive. I have done a couple of detail parts using FUD, and for detail parts it is very worthwhile. Below are the CAD model and finished product for a carriage gas light in S scale, approx 4 mm high.

The second approach is printing in wax, from which an investment casting in brass is made. This is done by a jeweller in Auckland, and is not cheap. I use this process to make durable master models, from which I get the jeweller to produce multiple investment cast copies. I have done a couple of castings this way, the photo below shows a 1:64 coupler. This coupler was drawn from a 1906 (!) blueprint in Autocad, scaled down, the correct shrinkage corrections made and then sent off to get printed and cast. After a bit more testing and the arrival of some etches I will make these available for sale to the local market.

[.....]

The other side of 3D printing is the drawings. This does not get as much attention, but is just as important. I am fortunate that my background is engineering, and have training on CAD software. I use AutoCAD 2013, which is quite cumbersome to work with in 3D, but is the only thing my basic laptop can handle. If I had something more powerful I would have used Solidworks. I also have access to a good collection of original blueprints and blueprint scans. Good drawings or measurements are almost indispensible if you want to make a good (3D) model. Suitable software is also a great help, it makes life much easier if you draw your models by specifying dimension a, b, and c rather than dragging and fudging until something looks right. The old saying of rubbish in = rubbish out applies here.

If you can draw on a computer and want to give it a try, I would suggest to give Shapeways a try. The website will tell you if the model will print beforehand, and will tell you the issues if there are any.

Alternatively, if computer drawing is not your thing, do a search for HO models on Shapeways, there is a lot of stuff out there you can order, and try the 3D printing technology out.


DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
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