Jim,

I am no expert but here is what I think happened.
early prototypes had incandescent lamps. Their color is a bit more yellowish than daylight or modern fluorescent lights.
The models also had incandescent lamps.
When we look at such a prototype or model we do not see the light as 'yellow' but just a bright (white) light.
Yellow, Red and Green LEDs were available but they were not used extensively in models, the yellow LEDs being way too yellow.
Then 'white' LEDs were invented. They are really a blue LED with some extra chemicals to make it look like white light. The result is a blue tinge to the light.
These new white LEDs started getting used in models, but they were a little too cool - blueish. So people started producing 'warm' and 'golden' LEDs which were slightly warmer in color.
In my opinion many of these 'warm' LEDs were way too yellow and we have seen models (and the Märklin interior lights) simply being way too yellow.
http://layout.mixmox.com/1/marklin-73400

On the prototype, I suspect most headlights are still incandescent - but they are so bright that when we see them they are so blinding they seem white. (The difference between incandescent and white (sunlight) can only really be seen when seen side by side.) Interior lights in passenger cars migrated to being fluorescent - much cooler than incandescent.

so in a practical sense, for modelling, I avoid 'yellow' or 'warm' LEDs and buy white LEDs only. If they need to simulate flourescent light I use them 'as is'. If they need to look like incandescents, I put a dab of yellow acrylic paint on them and that warms them up just enough.
http://layout.mixmox.com/1/shed-light

Thank you Dale and Mike!

Roy G. Biv rules, dude!

Jim (In a world of his own making )

Just one quick addition regarding the new Märklin LED interior light kits (#73400, #73401):

#73400 is composed of (6) yellow LED's and hence best suitable for earlier epoche car illuminations, #73401 is composed of (6 warm) white LED's and thus most suitable for recent epoche car illuminations.

Note: changed phrase above.

Product description of #73400 says "standard"; for #73401 it says "white" - furhtermore the following: "Die Innenbeleuchtungen 73400 (gedämpftes Licht für ältere Epochen) und 73401 (weißes Licht für modernere Wagen)...".
http://www.maerklin.de/de/service/suche/produktsuche.html

John,

quote:
Originally posted by John Black:

"You're also right with the range of beams. Another point why they invented this one.."

I done forgot about that!

quote:
"And congratulations on your latest additions you got from the kids"

Thanks! He is an ever so helpful engine [:o)]


And thanks again to Dale and to Lutz for more insights! This does seem to be a wide subject. I started out thinking of only the headlight situation, and had not even considered the car-lighting aspect which is a very large facet on this diamond!

Of course, if all engines had an extra pair of eyes in addition to the driver and fireman.....

Thank you all,

Jim (A little wider focus now)

since you have changed your posting, my question is moot - I was pointing out that you did not in fact correct anything. I was taking umbridge at the fact that you initially implied that my post or review was factually incorrect. I did not challenge the information you added.

Roger,

Excellent link! [:p] A well done site! Thanks!

Peace and Long Life,

Jim

I got the LEDs from LED-Shop24 in Germany: http://www.led-shop24.de/

Seems like a reliable company - responded quickly on e-mail and shipped next day when I ordered.

You haven't yet "experienced" ROCO locos.

Although this model was introduced last year, it's basic construction - especially for the lights was about 40 years ago. New constructions usually also have "current light technology, including warm white LED's.

Hi!

I found it real hard to buy decently priced warm white LEDs in the market. They are all like 3-5 Euros each (5-10 USD ea). It's also a struggle before you actually find the right colour tone that looks good when you snap your photos too. Don`t want the headlights of the loco look blue, yellow, or green even. Antoher problem is that most vendor sell poorly selected LEDs, which means that some is good white, but other are blueish white, in the same bag, on the same P/N. If you still like to tint them, it possible by tinting the LED by painting the lens with thin thin layer of yellow paint.

You also need a protection doide and a serial resistor to protect the LED from voltaghe spikes and get the specified supply voltage to it.

After some serious seacrching I bought one pack of 3mm LEDs, which is 500pcs to bring price down and to be sure to get consistensy in the colour tone. I can tell that I have a few left on my shelf, after I retrofitted all of my locos and built an excess of 50 yardlights. Please drop my an E-mail if you are intressted in white LEDs and/or how to integrate them into locos and other illumination on the layout. Im more than happy to assist with the experience I got along the road.

Regards from Martin in Sweden

At what point did "White" lights become the norm on proto versus "Yellow"? Or am I completely out-to-lunch Have they always been "White" (even the 1950s, 1940s, 1930s, 1920s?) - I am so befused and confuddled...

Thank you, thank you and Peace to all,

Ah, hush ye now, pore tyke - 'tis not so tough! The change came when "sealed beam halogen" lumps (er, lamps) took over from the "replaceable bulbs" in oxidised reflectors. First, the new halogen gas filling lent a distinctly purplish look to the new lights and gave real power of projection to them (as in "lumens"). The beam, being sealed because the filament had no separate bulb and to contain the halogen gas (well, what did you think here? stick a bare filament in a reflector, and it goes "PHOo-0OT" with GREee-at vigor!), did not allow the reflectors to oxidise. No more finding that there was no bridge whilst going into the rriverr at the self-same instant! How novel! Especially the part where you, the engineer, finds the back of your head suddenly supporting ten passenger cars full of slightly disgruntled passengers!

The old bulbs were a jaundiced yellow due to a weakness of beam; lucky, as you said, to find a cow on the tracks moments before the cow's soul went to hin-doo heaven (my assessment of the logistics!). Methinks that's how "fast food" was discovered (must've happened to a Scotch engineer named MacDonald).

So now, this is why "golden yellow" LEDs are appropriate in locos from the replaceable-bulB aera, and white LEDs (a little purple paint over the business end of those puppies would be guad!) is the choice for loks from the sealed-beam halogen aera. Mind you, to be prototypically correct, you must keep a gaggle of HO-sized cows handy by the trackside at the river if you drive an 01 lok over that bridge anytime soon!

Anyway, these are the only plausible conclusions I have been able to reach as I observe the bright bloo-ish white headlamps on my nieuw Re 482 011-4 "CARGEAUX" (sounds French, eh?) Swiss ellok switch ends whilst circulating happily to-and-fro on my meter-long layout consisting of an ENTIRE length of Marklin flex-track (oh, come now! NO one spells that "MAERKLIN" anymore! My keyboard has no umlauts - does YOURS?). Or, as Jakov Smirnoff would've said: "Wotta GREAT layout"!

Thank you for your rapt attention to this superbly grave matter, lest we return to the cry of the engineers of yore: HOLY COW!!!

Redd (Yoda? ),

(Too many quotes to quote)

Puzzled I was, yea, tho', now I begin to "see the light" ("Those who walked in darkness have seen a great light...") Your historical tale is marvelous! From the cockles of me heart, I thank ye! (Luke! Go toward the Light Side!)

Mikael,




I love it! A great solution! Somehow [B)] I missed your picture before, so I am glad you re-posted it! Thanks

Peace and all that,

Jim (Quothe the Raven...)

Redd,

I was so engrossed in your story that I forgot to say:

"Welcome to the Forum!" [:I]

Damon,

Wow! Yet another option! This is just fantastic [:p]

Jim