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Offline TTRExpress  
#1 Posted : 22 March 2008 17:33:21(UTC)
TTRExpress

United States   
Joined: 06/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 655
I am finally going to take the plunge into the digital world of operations and understand that a separate programming track is necessary to set decoders that do not already come installed in locomotives. If one performs the encoding process on the main-line with other locomotives present all are reset to the new code.

Has anyone a wiring diagram that uses isolation of the programming track from the main-line? A good place to set one up would be a siding in a station or locomotive service area.

Thanks for your help with this.
Regards (a Scot in Wisconsin),

Maurice [ETE, TTRCA, IG-TRIX Express, Maerklin-Insider & TRIX Profi-Club]
Offline rschaffr  
#2 Posted : 22 March 2008 17:47:51(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,170
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Maurice: I originally had one track in my staging area set up as a programming track, but now I use my rollenprufstand. I have a two pole, four position switch going to it so I can select "digital", "analog", "programming" and "lokprogrammer" . That way I can set it up and test it without moving it. If you are going to use a track connected to your layout, you just need to isolate it from the rest of the layout and wire it to the programming track output of your controller (I use an IB)
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/IB), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline Purellum  
#3 Posted : 22 March 2008 18:47:48(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,069
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Hello Maurice.

I've just written an instruction on a Danish forum, and haven't yet got the time to translate.

Ron's answer is correct for some controllers; others don't have a separate programming-track output.

You can of course make all kind of clever arangements; but I prefer to advise the safe way.

( IF I had a large layout, including a turn-table, hmmmmmmmmmmmm wink )

If you have a programming-track separated from the rest of your layout, you're safe.

You will have to turn the main layout off, while programming; but you're safe.

You have to lift your locomotives to get them to the programming track; but you're safe.


Let the 3 above rules apply to all controller / booster / programming-track combinations, and you're safe. Cool


On the picture below, you see the set-up when using a mobile-station ( MS ) + a Delta 66045 as booster.

To the left the 24088 connection track, where the MS and the transformer for the MS are plugged in.

This track is also the programming track; on the next version of the picture 24001-s will be fitted.

In the middle the Delta / booster; the two terminal blocks indicate transformer connection.

To the right the main layout. You might want to make it bigger than just one track; but it's no problem wink

UserPostedImage


Damn. I just did most of the translation wink

Per.

Edited by moderator 11 January 2011 20:16:38(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

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Offline TTRExpress  
#4 Posted : 22 March 2008 19:45:08(UTC)
TTRExpress

United States   
Joined: 06/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 655
Ron and Per,

Thanks for your insights. I will be using a TRIX Mobile Station so it has no separate output for a programming track. Based on your inputs I think the best routes to go are as follows:

1. Isolate the programming track area and use a DPDT with center-off switch.

2. Have a separate track area not connected to the main-layout that has its own connector and transformer and just move the Mobile Station.

3. Use a rollenprufstand.

4. Just leave everything as is and remove all locomotives from main-line.

Ron what 2 pole, four position switch do you use? Do you have a wiring diagram?

Thanks again!
Regards (a Scot in Wisconsin),

Maurice [ETE, TTRCA, IG-TRIX Express, Maerklin-Insider & TRIX Profi-Club]
Offline Purellum  
#5 Posted : 22 March 2008 20:30:07(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,069
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Ron what 2 pole, four position switch do you use? Do you have a wiring diagram?
Maurice, I'm not making fun of you, or the like; but when you ask a question like this,

I think you should use solution #2 or #3, or a combination of the two. Be safe.

Original Trix or Marklin Replacement smoke is very hard to find. wink

Per.

wink
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline TTRExpress  
#6 Posted : 22 March 2008 23:06:10(UTC)
TTRExpress

United States   
Joined: 06/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 655
Hi Per,

Thanks for your advice. I am in agreement with you that safety is of prime concern. I am inclined just to have a separate track area that is disguised within a station area as a sideing. Although the rollenprufstand is a viable option.






Regards (a Scot in Wisconsin),

Maurice [ETE, TTRCA, IG-TRIX Express, Maerklin-Insider & TRIX Profi-Club]
Offline rschaffr  
#7 Posted : 22 March 2008 23:14:43(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,170
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Maurice: It was a rotary switch which is common in audio equipment that I found in my "junk" drawer. I just hooked the rollenprufstand up tot he common and the variuous inputs up to the selection taps. I am not at home right now.. when I get home I can do a wiring diagram if you still need it.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/IB), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline TTRExpress  
#8 Posted : 23 March 2008 00:40:58(UTC)
TTRExpress

United States   
Joined: 06/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 655
Ron,

Thanks for the reply. If you could provide the diagram it would be helpful.
Regards (a Scot in Wisconsin),

Maurice [ETE, TTRCA, IG-TRIX Express, Maerklin-Insider & TRIX Profi-Club]
Offline Purellum  
#9 Posted : 23 March 2008 01:58:49(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,069
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Maurice: If you ONLY use a mobile station as controller, any swich can do.

You feed the whole layout when running trains,
and feed only the programming track when programing.

You only need the switch in one of the wires / tracks.


If you use a booster, as in my example above, NO switch ( alone ) is good enough IMHO.
A loco passing the two zones could make bad things happen.

Per.


If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline TTRExpress  
#10 Posted : 23 March 2008 03:11:09(UTC)
TTRExpress

United States   
Joined: 06/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 655
Hi Per,

Thanks for letting me know that. I knew that in digital operation the Mobile Station/Transformer combination feeds the whole layout. If one uses a programming track it does need to be electrically isolated. If one has a large layout with lots of accessories then boosters should be used and I see the point of your wiring descriptions. Using the Delta Station as a booster one still needs to isolate the power consumption areas even if one does not have a separate programming track.

I appreciate your and Ron's suggestions. Has Maerklin addressed this in their Mobile Station manual?
Regards (a Scot in Wisconsin),

Maurice [ETE, TTRCA, IG-TRIX Express, Maerklin-Insider & TRIX Profi-Club]
Offline nevw  
#11 Posted : 23 March 2008 04:51:43(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,002
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Maurice,
a Simple way is to have another Ugly BOx and track, Make up a short length 2 Feet 600mm Buffers at each end. When you want to use the Programing track, Put it on a Spare piece of the table and Plug the MS into it instead of the Layout.

If you have a CS then there is provision for a Plug to supply power to a Programing track. So two wires into the Plug for the CS and I have connections on the end of the wire to go on the connections under the track as in the diagram above.

N
wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline Purellum  
#12 Posted : 23 March 2008 11:57:48(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,069
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Has Maerklin addressed this in their Mobile Station manual?
Manual?????? You'll have to ask someone who reads manuals biggrin biggrin

I've heard of people doing just that; but never tried this method myself wink

I tried to send you a mail; but your contact-info is not updated; the mail came back.

You could have been the first to see the "printerfriendly" version of my "mobile-station-connections for beginners" wink

Made for 3 rail; ( C-track ) but most general advice would be OK for you.

Maybe I should make a dedicated 2-rail-version, 1-gauge'ers choo choo on two too wink

Per.

.
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline intruder  
#13 Posted : 23 March 2008 12:38:47(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,532
Location: Akershus, Norway
A question from me:

Are "0" on the two track connectors (normal track and programming track) on the CS interconnected?
I have meassured 0 Ohm between them. On the other hand, it is also 0 Ohm between the two "B"s.

If I had a layout I think I would have connected a track section, via a switch or relay, to the programming output. In normal operation is the track section connected to the normal output, in programming mode to the programming output.
In programming mode I would have an unpowered "emergency stoptrack" in both ends of the track section, controlled by the same switch or relay.

This could for instance be a bypass track in the locomotive yard.
This way, the locomotive to be reprogrammed can make a test round on the layout, drive into the reprogramming track, get it's new information and make another test round. No problem, even with unpowered cars connected.
Just like a pitstop on a racing track.

Edit March 23 1300 CET: Add screenshot

UserPostedImage
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline pa-pauls  
#14 Posted : 23 March 2008 12:50:20(UTC)
pa-pauls


Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Norway
Hello Smile

Even better to have a ESU LokSound programmer with it's own prgramming track [:p]
Pål Paulsen
Märklin Digital, DB and SBB Era III
Offline Caplin  
#15 Posted : 23 March 2008 13:31:59(UTC)
Caplin


Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
Here is another way to separate the layout and the programming track using the same UglyBox®, MS and trafo. It lacks though a circuit that reduces the power to the programming track as seen with the special connection on a CS.

EDITED: Sorry Maurice, I overlooked that you are using the DC version of the MS (TRIX). Anyway, I will leave the post for others to see.

https://www.marklin-users.net/fo...ault.aspx?g=posts&t=9371

Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL

UserPostedImage
Offline TTRExpress  
#16 Posted : 23 March 2008 18:42:05(UTC)
TTRExpress

United States   
Joined: 06/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 655
Hello Per,

My E-mail address is on my profile and it is active so you should have had no issues in sending me an E-mail.

I usually read the manuals and when I feel comfortable enough to experiment I do. With expensive digital decoders etc. I would rather take my time and "be safe" rather than dive in as I usually do. Analogue is a lot easier to "fix!"

Again thanks for your help it is greatly appreciated. Also to all the others who have responded a big thank you!!

Regards (a Scot in Wisconsin),

Maurice [ETE, TTRCA, IG-TRIX Express, Maerklin-Insider & TRIX Profi-Club]
Offline Purellum  
#17 Posted : 23 March 2008 18:46:27(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,069
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Maurice, please delete your email address.

Spam-machines might find it. I mailed you through your profile, and got a failure message back.

I'll try again.

Per.

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline TTRExpress  
#18 Posted : 23 March 2008 19:24:10(UTC)
TTRExpress

United States   
Joined: 06/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 655
Benny,

Wonderful job on putting in the micro-switch on the connector-box. A neat idea and extremely practical. The TRIX Mobile Station has a separate connector-box. If I go with a DPDT switch then I will double-gap the programming track for isolation from the main layout. The common (negative) and positive leads from the TRIX connector box will go to the center connections on the DPDT, one set of wires will be connected to the main-line. I will add a 47Ohm 2W resistor between the positive lead coming out from the switch to the wire that will connect to the program track.

Nev,

The TRIX Connector box is inexpensive and I agree that having a dedicated programming track separated completely from the layout is definately the easiest and probably safest way to go. It can still be disguised to be a part of the layout.

I appreciate all the great ideas and all the inputs from a superb group of gentlemen.





Regards (a Scot in Wisconsin),

Maurice [ETE, TTRCA, IG-TRIX Express, Maerklin-Insider & TRIX Profi-Club]
Offline Purellum  
#19 Posted : 23 March 2008 19:34:26(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,069
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Maurice, the E-mail address you ( still ) have above, was the one who gave me a faliure message back.

I've tried again using the same address, still no failure returned.

Per.
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline TTRExpress  
#20 Posted : 23 March 2008 20:43:46(UTC)
TTRExpress

United States   
Joined: 06/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 655
Per,

Let me know your Email address so I can try to send you an E-mail. I know mine is working well because I received Emails from Canada and Germany today.

Regards (a Scot in Wisconsin),

Maurice [ETE, TTRCA, IG-TRIX Express, Maerklin-Insider & TRIX Profi-Club]
Offline Caplin  
#21 Posted : 23 March 2008 22:56:17(UTC)
Caplin


Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
Maurice,

The way to send an e-mail via this forum is go to - in this case Per's - profile, click on "e-mail user" and write your message. The server will then transfer your message to Per's normal email inbox.

I will also suggest that you edit your post above and erase your e-mail address from it immediately. [:0]

Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL

UserPostedImage
Offline TTRExpress  
#22 Posted : 23 March 2008 23:43:41(UTC)
TTRExpress

United States   
Joined: 06/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 655
Benny,

I sent Per an E-mail via the profile earlier today but have no idea if it ever got through to him. I removed mine from my earlier posting. Try sending me an E-mail, I am not sure why one would not get through to me unless it is automatically going to my Deleted items or Spam folder.
Regards (a Scot in Wisconsin),

Maurice [ETE, TTRCA, IG-TRIX Express, Maerklin-Insider & TRIX Profi-Club]
Offline Purellum  
#23 Posted : 24 March 2008 00:03:01(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,069
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Maurice, I recieved your email, and have sent a reply, let's see what happens.

Per.
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline TTRExpress  
#24 Posted : 24 March 2008 01:36:51(UTC)
TTRExpress

United States   
Joined: 06/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 655
Hi Per,

Glad you got my E-mail. As yet I have received nothing from you. I even sent myself a test to myself from here and have yet to receive it.

Maybe it will come through!!

Regards (a Scot in Wisconsin),

Maurice [ETE, TTRCA, IG-TRIX Express, Maerklin-Insider & TRIX Profi-Club]
Offline Caplin  
#25 Posted : 24 March 2008 01:53:31(UTC)
Caplin


Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by TTRExpress
<br /> Try sending me an E-mail, I am not sure why one would not get through to me unless it is automatically going to my Deleted items or Spam folder.
Maurice, I sent you a testmail just now.

Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL

UserPostedImage
Offline TTRExpress  
#26 Posted : 24 March 2008 03:28:22(UTC)
TTRExpress

United States   
Joined: 06/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 655
Hello Per and Benny,

Per, your E-mail got through to me. My own test one to me has not arrived yet.

Benny, your's has not arrived yet. I think with E-mail it is a matter of how the servers communicate.
Regards (a Scot in Wisconsin),

Maurice [ETE, TTRCA, IG-TRIX Express, Maerklin-Insider & TRIX Profi-Club]
Offline Purellum  
#27 Posted : 24 March 2008 11:16:56(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,069
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:My own test one to me has not arrived yet.
Are you sure you used the correct E-mail-address? biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin

Per.
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline nevw  
#28 Posted : 24 March 2008 11:31:24(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,002
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Per,
You are not being serious again. biggrin[^][:p]
wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline Caplin  
#29 Posted : 24 March 2008 14:18:19(UTC)
Caplin


Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
Guys,

This portion with e-mail problems does not belong here in the Digital section, please continue in the new thread in the NMR section. Thank you. [:I]
Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL

UserPostedImage
Offline intruder  
#30 Posted : 22 April 2008 01:05:56(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,532
Location: Akershus, Norway
Short report:

On my "under construction semi permanent test layout" I have two loops, parallel tracks.
They are connected with two sets of curved turnouts. Between the two turnouts in one set it is a curved track, 24130.

I have completely isolated the two "interconnecting" 24130 (blue colour) from the rest of the tracks, both "0" and "B".
The inner track is connected directly to the normal track output on the CS.
The outer track is connected to a 7244, the center terminals of two of the switches. This goes for both "0" and "B".
One side of the two switches sets are connected to the inner track, "0" and "B".
The other side of the two switches are connected to the programming track output of the CS.

The center connectors of the two remaining switches of the 7244 are connected to the two interconnecting 24130.
The "other side" (same side as above) of the switches are connected to the programming output.

The 6083 controlling the 7244 is connected to the inner noramal track.

This way I can run the outer loop as a programming track and the inner as a normal track, or I can run both loops as normal tracks.
If I run the outer track as a programming track, the two interconncting 24130 is compleste cut off from any power, as a "safety zone" between the normal track and the programming track.

UserPostedImage

I have set up a train route with the CS to control the programming track:
A. Programming function, lower right corner of the screenshot:
1. Upper left turnout red
2. Lower left turnout green
3. Lower right turnout green
4. Upper right turnout red
5. 7244 red - outer track connected to programming output, no power on the two blue 24130

B. Normal function, upper left corner of the screenshot:
1. Upper left turnout red
2. Lower left turnout green
3. Lower right turnout green
4. Upper right turnout red
5. 7244 green - all tracks connected to the normal output

UserPostedImage
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline spitzenklasse  
#31 Posted : 22 April 2008 03:08:10(UTC)
spitzenklasse


Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,573
Location: ,
I have not provided for this on my layout. For as often as I buy a Loc., I make sure the layout is void of all others to program.
Offline TTRExpress  
#32 Posted : 22 April 2008 05:47:58(UTC)
TTRExpress

United States   
Joined: 06/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 655
Hi Svein,

Nice piece of work. Thanks for sharing this with us.

Regards (a Scot in Wisconsin),

Maurice [ETE, TTRCA, IG-TRIX Express, Maerklin-Insider & TRIX Profi-Club]
Offline jvuye  
#33 Posted : 22 April 2008 17:39:15(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,668
Location: South Western France
Svein,
Simple but elegant,safe and practical solution!
It is definitely an idea to keep in the back of my mind for my new layout!
Thanks!
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline intruder  
#34 Posted : 22 April 2008 21:46:02(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,532
Location: Akershus, Norway
I'm happy if I can be of some assistance, friends.
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
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