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Offline charles Sharpe  
#1 Posted : 25 March 2007 18:46:53(UTC)
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charles Sharpe


Joined: 21/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,432
Location: NORFOLK UK
Hello All. We are having a few days of next week in germany and my wife said see would buy me a HAG train.If I decide to buy one could you tell me if they are 100% compatible with C track and with the central station. I have heard that the build quality is very good but the prices are a bit on the high side.[:p]
CHARLES SHARPE
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Offline chon  
#2 Posted : 25 March 2007 19:30:33(UTC)
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chon


Joined: 08/03/2004(UTC)
Posts: 113
Location: Antwerp,
Hi Charles,

I've bought at an auction an HAG (Re 4/4" EBT; HAG 194). It runs smoothly on the tracks. I think that you have to inform which decoder has been inserted to be sure of the compatibility with a central station (DCC or Motorola protocol). The several HAG locs presented at the auction were equipped with ESU, Lenz, Märklin and that kind of decoders.
Chon
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Offline Guus  
#3 Posted : 25 March 2007 20:03:32(UTC)
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Guus

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
Hello Charles,

Yes HAG locomotives will drive with a Central Station and on C-track.Newer versions of HAG locomotives for AC will be suitable for both AC analog and digital.Their default adress is 03.
Please bare in mind that few dealers will have large quantities of HAG trains in stock, if any.Secondly there are still quite a few old analog models around -sold as suitable for Märklin-but these are in fact analog locomotives not suitable for digital operation!

There are DC and AC versions of their waggons and cars.

From my own experience I can heartily recommend HAG trains.They're very well made and nicely detailed and well worth the extra price over Märklin.

Rivetcounters may find the range of Re 4/4Is models a bit outdated especially when compared with Märklins new Re 4/4I,but in my opnion these also are still very good considering the fact that the design is already some 30 years old.

Hope this helps,

Kind regards
Guus
Kind regards,
Guus
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Offline David Dewar  
#4 Posted : 25 March 2007 22:25:59(UTC)
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David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,454
Location: Scotland
AS Guss says no problems with HAG on C track and the CS. You may have difficulty finding one in Germany though and I would advise a new model and not secondhand.
There is am excellent dealer in England who although does not hold stocks of A/C models will get you one at a good discount. Again it may be difficult to get the model you wish to buy. HAG are a peculiar firm who spend a lot of time on holiday and only make small batches of models but most 4/4 and 6/6 models are similar. No coaches will be available until the end of the year but they are also very good.

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline David Dewar  
#5 Posted : 25 March 2007 22:27:13(UTC)
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David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,454
Location: Scotland
Charles I see from your profile you are aged 13....you sure married early !!!

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline Hemmerich  
#6 Posted : 25 March 2007 22:51:13(UTC)
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Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by David Dewar
<br />Charles I see from your profile you are aged 13....you sure married early !!!


Usually women "downgrade" their real age - but anything curious is possible in good ole England! biggrin

Maybe the "lie-detector thread" about the age of this forums members will unfold the truth. Cool

HAG models are always worth buying - regardless of your age!!! Especially since they are now offered as well in sophisticated digital (ESU) versions winkwinkwink
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Offline charles Sharpe  
#7 Posted : 26 March 2007 00:54:03(UTC)
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charles Sharpe


Joined: 21/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,432
Location: NORFOLK UK
You know what they say it is good to start young
CHARLES SHARPE
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Offline Hemmerich  
#8 Posted : 26 March 2007 16:10:05(UTC)
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Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
The trouble is: You are too young to be allowed to buy yourselves alone a HAG model - no different than for cigarettes or alcohol; the dealer could get some trouble by selling such "dangerous" stuff to kids. Cool

But a solutions is in sight - there are for sure enough adult members in this forum who are more than willing to go with you or even just with your money to a HAG model train shop (are there any in the U.K.?) wink
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Offline Bart  
#9 Posted : 26 March 2007 23:31:17(UTC)
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Bart

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/05/2002(UTC)
Posts: 676
biggrinbiggrinbiggrin

Seriously - what would be the best way to convert older analog HAG models?

1. buy an AC model and use an Uhlenbrock 76200 (or Tams or 6080) AC decoder?
I don't like the lack of choice of decoders here.

2. buy a DC model, add pick-up shoe, and install any decoder of your choice?
I like the idea, but would there be a problem with wheel flanges/distance or any
other drawback?

3. buy an AC model and install a permanent magnet plus any decoder?
Would the rotor have to be replaced as well? Does HAG provide conversion sets?
Parts numbers?

I know newer HAG models are supplied with Esu decoders, but I'm specifically referring to the older analog models here. Any suggestions?
*Bart
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Offline Guus  
#10 Posted : 27 March 2007 00:02:54(UTC)
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Guus

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
Hi Bart,

I've been asking myself the same questions.

I know HAG doesn't provide conversion sets.However they do have a small circuit board just for the purpose of conversions to digital with plug in capability; partnumber: 501025-75.It has a 21 pole plug for decoders.

In case you want to convert an AC model you don't need to replace the rotor,only the magnet of course.The most common part number for that is 161216-90.The Ae 4/7 has a slightly different magnet nr.: 139218-90.

There's also a wealth of information to be found here:

http://www.forum.hag-info.ch/viewtopic.php?p=2012#2012

http://www.forum.hag-info.ch/viewtopic.php?p=2009#2009

From what I seem to understand there is a preference for converting an old AC model to AC digital.
Don't know whether the wheel geometry of a DC models differs from those of an AC model??

Hope this helps a little.

Kind regards
Guus

Kind regards,
Guus
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Offline Bart  
#11 Posted : 27 March 2007 00:26:52(UTC)
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Bart

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/05/2002(UTC)
Posts: 676
Guus,
many thanks for the links.
This will prove to Larry that HAG is Dutch as well biggrin

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Guus
Don't know whether the wheel geometry of a DC models differs from those of an AC model??

In general, yes, there is a difference in wheel geometry.
The inner distance between the wheels is 14.3 mm with NEM (2-rail) and 14.0 mm with Märklin. These 0.3 mm make a difference, and NEM locos are most likely to derail at the frog of Märklin turnouts. Also the flanges of the wheels have a slightly different shape than Märklin's. Again a thing, which tends to derail the rolling material.

I don't have any personal experience with HAG DC locos though, and I wonder how sensitive they are to derailment on C/K track.

*Bart
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Offline Hemmerich  
#12 Posted : 27 March 2007 01:22:59(UTC)
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Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
Just an additional comment: Option #3 is surely the most favorable for Märklin center rail operation, but it really depends upon the individual model which magnet you'll have to use. For some really older ones you even have to do some drilling work to exchange the field coil by the magnet.
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Offline Bart  
#13 Posted : 27 March 2007 03:33:04(UTC)
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Bart

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/05/2002(UTC)
Posts: 676
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich
<br />Just an additional comment: Option #3 is surely the most favorable for Märklin center rail operation, but it really depends upon the individual model which magnet you'll have to use. For some really older ones you even have to do some drilling work to exchange the field coil by the magnet.
Thanks Lutz,
That's exactly why I would be a bit reluctant to do magnet surgery on older models, and I considered using DC models as a start. Adjusting the wheel distance, adding a pick-up shoe, and bridging the isolated wheels should not be too difficult, and the permanent magnet DC motor will already be there!
Does that make sense?
*Bart
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Offline steventrain  
#14 Posted : 27 March 2007 20:39:26(UTC)
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steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,692
Location: United Kingdom
Hi charles,

Make sure check and test before buy it.Smile
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline metpo  
#15 Posted : 29 March 2007 14:43:35(UTC)
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metpo


Joined: 05/02/2007(UTC)
Posts: 303
Location: ,
HAG rules..
First of all they make some nice models that other companies do not make! (BDE 4/4 Martigny Orsière Bahn for example)...
Secondly it is hand made... and good quality...
I have some HAG models...and my favourites are the triebwagen BFE/bde 4/4 models...
Unfortunately 2 of my locs are making a strange noise..but I just think I have to put some oil or I have to put some new rubbers on the wheels.. (I bought all my HAGs second hand)..
From time to time you can find on a fair some good HAG stuff.. I bought the green BDE 4/4 with the "steuerwagen(with lights installed already) for 180 euros... nearly like new... and really nice!!!
I have 2 RE 4/4, one AE 4/7, 2 BDE 4/4, and one AE 4/4.... (I hope I did not forget any other HAG train) and I also have some coaches..they are all from the old generation..analog...

There is one thing I wanna add: HAG stuff is a little bit larger then msot Marklin stuff..certainly for the coaches you can see a big difference...

I also have to add that one guy that I know visited the HAG factory..And told me they produce something like 2000 locs each year or so? (which is not much..)they work with around 25 persons in the company..
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