For those of you that may not yet have seen or gotten this model, please find below some pictures which show the redesign that I mentioned some time earlier (in the thread about "another new beauty - #36871").

The still metal frame (Gehäuse) is no longer mounted via one of the domes but rather by two screws at the bottom body (Fahrwerk) - one of them underneath the front coupling.

As you can see, the wheelsets are now mounted different as before behind the "break hood" (Bremsattrappe) and there is no longer any space planned for the old Telex - but "lets wait and see".

Driving characteristics is similar smooth like the 36871, even better due to the locomotive weight.







Regards,
Lutz

Any info on the specs of the decoder, including manufacturer?

Luis

Thanks for the pictures and review.

Thanks for posting the pictures.

What I like very much is that the engineman's cab is free now, This will improve the overall impression drastically. And the casing has been revised, obviously.

Unfortunately they removed the Heusinger control of the valve gear, but this may be a matter of cost. Well, the valve gear of the old BR 81 was a little clumsy, indeed.

Allthough the motor looks like a cheap mass production product from somewhere in far east. Does the decoder have any load regulation ? If so, I suppose the running performance should be good. But it's a pity to see the old SFCM and DCM motors disappear from M's program.

Hans Martin

Hi All,

the decoder is basically the same as mounted in the new BR89 (#30000) and alike. It's a programmable fx decoder especially manuactured for Märklin by a subcontracted Southern German company. The company name starts with "Z")and delivers as well the decoders for the BR185/TRAXX and some other locos like the SBB Ae 3/6 or the new starter sets #29655/29755. You'll/should not get these decoders direct from the subcontractor; they are only available by their corresponding part numbers from Märklin. You might also know this decoder type from the conversion set #60760.

Yes, the decoder has full load regulation and is suitable for loco conversions with corresponding DC/HLA motors. As hopefully everyone can see, these decoders have nothing to do with ESU (a rumor that was spread around different forums by several people in the past).

The following pictures show the basic decoder design (with additional f1 output).






Regards,
Lutz

Well, this world is bad, and so are this forum's members. Never satisfied, always muttering. It's a shame ... M is making gigantic efforts for us, wanna give us their latest high tech for our worthless cash - and what's your reaction, huh ???!!! [:o)]

***

Seriously - never saw so much garbage assembled in one single engine. Talk about latest edition of china junk. If this is M's future - thank you [xx(][xx(][xx(]

That "motor" [xx(][xx(][xx(] is an insult for any loco !!! When we visited her family in June, Roro bought this pocket airconditioner near Place de la Concorde. Same motor - but €1.99





John

Let me say that you guys never seem happy sometimes......

That's a cheap motor for a cheap lok, aimed at a market target which is not necessarily us, avid buyers of the best of the best.

Märklin continues to treat us with those beauties, so why complain if they decide to provide a cheaper range? Don't like them, dont buy them, buy the whole Karl Belingrodt series, for example....[}:)]

I'm not a customer for these loks, either, but most likely my kid will be.

BTW, I have had literally hundreds of these sealed motors types around during my life and I never saw a single one fail.

And to tell you you the truth, the old style of AC Märklin motors really suck, because they are so extraordinarily ineficient and irregular runners. The permanent DC 5-pole motors are more eficient but are not exactly the best construction around. The brush holders design is quite bad, and often result in brush misalignment, wearing down one of the brushes more than the other.

Be thankful for Märklin reviving the Primex concept, instead of wooeing big M down. And it's really weird seing people sighing to have Primex branded loks back and wooeing Märklin for coming back with a strongly revived Hobby range.

Luis

Hardly a "disaster" but certainly not the smooth low speed runners we are expecting in today's market. The S- and L- FCM motors are rugged and dependable. I have seen some uneven brush wear on the DCM's, but still they are a good motor. Although I have converted most of mine to 5 pole digital, I still keep a few unconverted loks with "Universal" motors around for nostalgic reasons and set them up on some M-track when I get the mood.

Sorry John, but the BR 81 was never sold in the normal range with a 6090 and 5-star motor, the bigger tech advancement it ever saw was a Delta decoder and the DCM motor.... There was only a starterset (29185) with a 6090 equipped BR 81.

So, if you look at this right, the BR 81 NOW has a smooth running DC motor and a load regulated decoder [}:)]

Up until 2005, there were no DC motorised, load regulated loks in the Hobby range.

Luis

It's a great picture al'righty! But it doesn't correspond to a normal range lok.... I don't think that it corresponds to the starterset lok I mentioned, that one didn't have Telex couplers, AFAIK.

And by "facts" what do you refer to? I believe we have established the Hobby loks have in fact been upgraded in smoothness, load regulated decoders, electromechanical efficiency (included MUCH lower current consumption) AND even looks: the main complaint I have regarding some Märklin loks is the non-see-through cabins [}:)].

And thank you for the compliment!!! It's great to have friends here, indeed! Next time I drop by in NY, I'll drop by in your precinct! Is it the 13th ?

Luis

Ahhhhh, but the Harry Potter set is Bachmann, which is just about the crappiest manufacturer around, together with Mehano.....

Märklin shouldn't have put their brand name on it....

Luis

Isn't the Harry Potter train made by Hornby. I see it oft when I order my Skaledale houses.

This set, along with the Thomas set, was a grab at quick cash capitalizing on a popular theme. Neither set, IMHO, will entice a newby to look further at Marklin for other train items. Many people will have these sets as their impressions of Marklin quality.

From all what I can tell, you can still mount the valve gear with Heusinger control known from previous versions of this model.

They have the part #227959 (right) and #227965 (left).

Regards,
Lutz

John,

you like anyone else have the right to complain (if you have "nothing better to do") and refuse buying something YOU don't like.

However, who cares? [}:)][}:)][}:)]

Märklin? They even don't know how much money they earn from you and if they don't get it from you they will earn it from other customer that are still attracted by this nice model.

Frankly speaking, I too could not care less about things you don't wanna buy, since I'm only interested in learning from people about their personal experience with those models.

Regards,
Lutz

Regards,
Lutz

No. Their banks ...

Lutz: However, I'm NOT against new, affordable models - this is good policy by M. It's just as Ron said - we all are used a certain level of quality by the world's top class MRR maker. And since there has been some downgrading of quality on certain M locos in the recent past - this forum is watching ...

BTW, re your "If you have nothing better to do": This is correct - not at the moment ...
And right now I'm busy bashing M's clown management for their sh*t they produced and the good money they drew from my wallet

Best Regards,
John

I think we shouldn't judge on the overall quality of the new BR 81 model from a simple view on the motor.

The motor (probably a Mabuchi or so) is one aspect of the model, there are a few others which I consider even more important, such as the casing and the blackened wheels.

See it from the enginering point of view: get a cheaper solution for the propoulsion system (low priced standard motor + load regulated but inexpensive decoder) with some new features (e.g. digital) and replace the old and more expensive SFCM/DCM technology.
Maybe the new motor is even cheaper than a set of new brushes for the old one.
This is good business practice. Most of us here (me included) live from this philosophy.

Otherwise we wouldn't chat here on the internet using our Pentium and Atlon computers with 1 GByte of RAM, 80 GB hard disk, TFT monitor etc. but would rather attend, say, a Benny Goodman or Cole Porter concert on our valve radios [:o)]. These times are gone, allthough I like some of those things that have been left over.

Hans Martin

I think you are right that a lot of people buy Märklin because they expect Märklin quality. Märklin quality means (or used to mean ?) not just a certain level of quality, but also a certain kind of quality. Märklin quality does not necessarily mean that the products have the best performance or the best modelling accuracy, not even does it mean that the things don't break. All this may vary from model to model. But what you always can expect (or at least could) is that the Märklin items do not break beyond repair and that they do not have so bad performance that they are totally useless. Märklin have made cheap junk before but that cheap junk still runs after 40 years with just a minimum of service.

The "it-will-work-next-time-too" quality of Märklin has been an almost unique feature among toy manufacturers. Probably this is more important to keep the "toy consumers" attracted in the long run than to keep the serious model railroaders. The "serious model railroader" may very well accept that the model is crap, as long as it is accurately modelled. He (very seldom a "she", unfortunately) will also keep himself informed, and make the decision to buy or not based on the characteristics of the specific model rather than the general perception of the brand.

The "toy consumer" or not so serious model railroader however will loose the interest if the things stop working all the time. And he/she will buy what he/she sees in the shop, if he/she trusts the brand. These people are many more than the "serious" ones so even if they do not buy that much each they sum up to a big market.



I think Märklin should care, if they are interested in keeping the "toy" train market. Bad running characteristics is OK in that segment. Inaccurate or even clumsy modelling too. But not irreparable break down.

I can't tell whether the motor in the discussed model will break or not, but at least I get the feeling that Märklin haven't made the analysis, and that is bad enough.

Hans Martin and Per: Thanks for your most interesting statements, they bear lots of logic. That single model isn't important at all - but it could be the writing on the wall ...

I confess I was shocked deeply when seeing this thing called "motor" the very first time in a Marklin [:0]
And it's still hard to believe this shall be a genuine Marklin loco. Since components like Mabucchi motors and worm drives are known all to well here in 2-rail land - they are loud and rough runners, and notorious for breakdowns.

John

Kato does make HO versions of their US locomotives, and they do quite well here in the USA. It is widely known here that Kato N scale locomotives (without decoders) are the smoothest running locomotives available. Trememdous slow speed running and great quality.

Kato does not for the most-part make a lot of HO compared to N scale, but their HO products are simply amazing too.

Is newer Marklin version definately Made in China -- and is it 3 or 5 pole? I see it appears to have a fly wheel, which is a start --

But there's something about the Marklin I know -- the German made Marklin product, noisy and rough, that has a certain appeal I feel will be gone in the future.

I wonder if I can install a NINCO EXTREME-3 motor in that chassis? ;-)
-I'm already preparing to wire my controllers for electro-dynamic braking! ;-)
Now I REALLY need banking on the curves! ;-)

Simone Signoret once said that.

I don't have a problem with Marklin bringing out a toy line to attract kids and generate cash, but it should be clearly marked as such. They should also be careful, even here, to create a line that will entice the new owner to look for a better quality product once they have used it, not just dismiss it as "another toy".

I guess when I bought the Thomas set, I should have expected this, but I was so used to the Marklin name meaning a certain level of quality, I was taken in.

To illustrate what I said in my previous post, I could take myself and my own family as an example. When I was a boy, we had a Märklin model railroad, a Faller slot car system, a Meccano building kit, and LEGO.

All four were good toys to play with, but rather quickly I gave up Meccano because it did not work in practice. The quality/precision of it was not good enough to realise my ideas. LEGO, although much more childish and limited in principle (at that time at least), kept me and my brothers interested throughout the childhood, because it worked the way it was intended to.

We ran the Märklin railroad and the Faller slot cars both separately and together on a layout. We had a lot of fun with both, but keeping the Faller cars running was always a lot of work (and cost for spare parts). The Märklin train always worked, so finally the Faller cars were put away and only the Märklin trains were used.

So, when I got my own children, what did I buy to them: LEGO instead of Meccano, of course, and I bought new items to the Märklin railroad. One of my brothers tried to revive the Faller cars for his children, but he failed and then went for Märklin model railroads instead. My children got a slot car system too, as a christmas present from some relatives. They also got a "LEGO robotics" system.

But the Märklin railroad "won". Why? Partly because I am a model railroad fan of course, but mainly because it is always possible to make it run without a lot of hazzle. Not even the LEGO robotics system lived up to that even though LEGO probably is the first company you think of if you say "quality toys". (Standard LEGO is still unbeatable though).

If Märklin give up the "it-will-work-next-time-too" quality they will be just another toy manufacturer, and that will erode their customer base and destroy the brand name in the long run. So they definitely should care. Even more with the "Hobby" products than with anything else.

So it is the very same junk as my Harry Potter Steamer. But your damage in $$$ is way less ...
Whatever, send it back to Gomez. Together with some old fish [}:)]