 Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC) Posts: 459 Location: Kaarina
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Hi,
I’m looking to convert a GP9 or 7 or any other transition era North American two rail DC loco to three rail Märklin.
Has anyone got experience on what manufacturer / model would most likely end up with a good result? Things to consider are wheel profile and bogie suitability for mounting the pickup shoe.
Electronics is not a problem.
BR,
Eino
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 1 user liked this useful post by einotuominen
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 Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,883 Location: Michigan, Troy
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Atlas by Kato, and Kato brands. They are heavier, much quiter gearing, and better built than Athearn, or Bachmann. Roco had biult F-7s for Atlas also. My second and thirsd choices would be the Walther's premium line. One is "Proto", one is "Mainline". Sunset models also has a brass GP-7
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2 users liked this useful post by marklinist5999
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Joined: 17/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 127
Location: Netherlands
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Hello Eino, all, For inspiration you could read this topic: https://www.marklin-user...s-to-3-rail-power-pickupAs stated in that topic, think before you start because in my case it was a lot of work and expirimenting. In case you try to convert a 2-rail model, good luck and succes and please, show us the result. Tony.
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2 users liked this useful post by tonyfh
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 Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC) Posts: 729 Location: England, Suffolk
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years ago when I wanted to convert 2 rail Italian locos to work on my Märklin layout I experimented with multiple pickup shoes, profiles and possible hack of the underframes. Very frustrating. I then ventured into using 'shield' coaches or goods wagons that used current conducting couplers. All that was needed was to re-solder one of the motor cables to the current conducting coupler on the locomotive and then just hook onto it the car/coach needed. Obviously this leads to a 'blocked' composition but you don't need to hack an engine that can be returned to its 2 rail workings with just re-soldering a cable :-)
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3 users liked this useful post by ocram63_uk
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Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC) Posts: 682 Location: London
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Hi,
Have you looked at Alsterstreek's posts? I remember that he once showed some of his US conversions.
Carim
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1 user liked this useful post by Carim
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 Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,842 Location: Hybrid Home
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Hi, Out of laziness, I allow myself to quote myself: 1) Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek  2) Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Except for the Santa Fe warbonnets (both EMD F7 and Alco PA) all locomotives have been subject to various degrees of customisation. Some Märklin diesels received different paint schemes. The only fully converted loco is a KATO Alco RS3 (assisted by another esteemed forum member). Other “hybrid” solutions: Proto 2000 EMD E8 powered by pick-up shoe under “permanently” coupled Märklin baggage car and KATO EMD GP 35 lash-up with one dummy-fied unit carrying a pick-up shoe to power “shoeless” motorised units. I once motorised a “stand-alone” Märklin F7B unit to “empower” various EMD GP dummies, the latter being stripped “2-rail” locos. Two EMD GP7 dummies are Athearn shells placed on modified Märklin EMD F7 dummy undercarriages equipped with a pick-up shoe, respectively; the latter serve to power Proto 2000 EMD GP 30 locos. However, it should be noted that a conversion is cumbersome (the reasons have been elaborated in other posts) and results are mixed. Another solution would be to have a layout with separate circuits for Märklin and DC operations, like on this double-track Sherman Hill layout, where one track is “3-rail” and the other “2-rail”: 3) Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Thank you! Below thread wraps up my conversion and kit bashing adventures: https://www.marklin-user...-and-Conversion-projectsMy mantra: “2-rail” to “3-rail” locomotive conversion = a lot of pain -> abstain! In the future, I’ll limit myself to shell swapping and painting exercises. |
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3 users liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
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Joined: 08/12/2021(UTC) Posts: 141 Location: California, Sonoma County
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1 user liked this useful post by Bill L
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,464 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: Bill L
I have not seen any posts by Jvuye for a long time. I hope he is OK
He seems to be more active on the Marklin Bar & Grill email list. But from various comments he has made i believe he is winding down his activities - he has indicated that this years IMA will probably be his last.
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2 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
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 Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,225 Location: Montreal, QC
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I still see his biking posts on Facebook
Regards
Mike C
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1 user liked this useful post by mike c
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Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC) Posts: 459 Location: Kaarina
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Well thanks guys! A ton of resources.
I guess I’m gonna start by building a dedicated pickup wagon in order to see how different locos work on C track.
If they work well, then I’ll start solving the problem of mounting the pickup shoe under the bogie.
A dedicated pickup wagon is not the end of the world either. It just limits switching. I just hope that the wheels will work.
So making the inner flange distance to 13,9 mm is something I need to do? Are there any specific tools for that? Also, since I’ve got no models yet, are they generally wider or narrower than that?
BR,
-Eino
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 Joined: 26/05/2021(UTC) Posts: 198 Location: Australia, East Maitland, NSW
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There's some information on DC wheelsets in one of my old posts that might help you. https://www.marklin-user...elsets-and-Marklin-trackIn my very, very limited experience changing the spacing has been successful for everything except passing through the one double slip switch on my layout. Here the sharper flanges of the DC wheelsets (all ROCO items in my case) sometimes catch on the tips of the small double slip switch blades. Not often, but often enough to spoil otherwise trouble-free running and for me to order a full set of the correct AC wheelsets - which are supposed to arrive tomorrow.
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2 users liked this useful post by revmox
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,842 Location: Hybrid Home
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And I allow myself again to quote myself: 1) Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek 2) Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek |
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Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC) Posts: 459 Location: Kaarina
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Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek And I allow myself again to quote myself: 1) Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek 2) Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Excelent! I ordered that tool and also a pull of device! Thanks! -Eino
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1 user liked this useful post by einotuominen
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Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC) Posts: 459 Location: Kaarina
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Hi guys! Here's an progress report! Looks promising. Next step is to change Märklin wheels to it. I wonder if transfering the gears to Märklin axels will be a difficult task... Best regards, Eino
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3 users liked this useful post by einotuominen
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Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC) Posts: 729 Location: England, Suffolk
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I would go for wagons/coaches that already have a pick up shoe, i.e. wagons that you put at the end of the train with red lights. The decoder has to be mounted on the locomotive itself, obviously. Wagons like Marklin's 4411
Both loco and coach/wagon need to have NEM coupler pockets for you to be able to insert current conducting couplers
Mainly, install the decoder and instead of attaching each of the decoder cables to the left and right bogie, one goes to the coupler 😊
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Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC) Posts: 459 Location: Kaarina
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Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk I would go for wagons/coaches that already have a pick up shoe, i.e. wagons that you put at the end of the train with red lights. The decoder has to be mounted on the locomotive itself, obviously. Wagons like Marklin's 4411
Both loco and coach/wagon need to have NEM coupler pockets for you to be able to insert current conducting couplers
Mainly, install the decoder and instead of attaching each of the decoder cables to the left and right bogie, one goes to the coupler 😊 That is true, but the pickup wagon is just a temporary thing until I’m ready to install pickup shoe to the loco. I’ll have to check if ther’re NEM pockets for these Athearn Genesis locos available. Best regards, Eino
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Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC) Posts: 459 Location: Kaarina
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Hi! He's a part 2 video of progress with this project: A few problems I'm hoping that you guys can give good ideas: 1. Pickup clearance. Technically everything works now, but the loco could be lifted just 0,5 to 1 mm so that the wheels would provide better tractive power when going over a turnout. Also on those occasions, theres a dragging noise.I'm thinking of adding traction tires. I guess those could elevate the loco by "point-some millimeters". The issue is only at the front end where the pickup shoe is... But how do I get the grooves to the wheels though? 2. Wheels are eccentric.I'm quite sure this is because of the bearing bushes are made for the 2,3mm axels instead of the Märklin 2 mm axel. The tolerance apparently grew enough to make the wheels roll in un wanted manner. It may also be that the cog wheel is eccentric compared to the axel, but when installing, it felt to fit quite good. No traction though as with the 2,3 mm DC axel, but I solved that with super glue. The cog wheels were not wobbly at all, just not tight. That is the reason I think the bearing bushes are the issue. Now the bearing bush is a dead simple component. A brass square with a hole in it. I could most likely call a machine shop nearby and ask if they would make me suitable bearing bushes with smaller holes. But I'm not sure what the size of the hole would be? 2,05 or 2,1 mm? I can't measure the current holes since they are so small that my measure does not fit. While at it, what if I'd order custom bearing bushes and have then me rectangle instead of square? They could be 0,5mm taller than wider and that 0,5mm would then add to the elevation... Do you think that the cogs would still work as expected? Thanks! -Eino
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Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC) Posts: 459 Location: Kaarina
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So I found a solution for pickup shoe clearance! As one of the front wheels has anyway been disconnected from the gears, I fiugred that I could get rid off all the remaining gears that lead to that axel. That's total of two more gears. As the bogie got mostly empty, with gears removed, it was just a matter of hobby knife and creativity to carve out the bogie bottom and build a new bottom inside the bogie, but aprox, 2-3 mm inside it. Styrene sheet was very handy! So the pickup shoe is now 2-3 mm inside the bogie and works like a dream!   BR, -Eino
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3 users liked this useful post by einotuominen
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Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC) Posts: 459 Location: Kaarina
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Just an update! Been working with two locos now, the Athearn GP40-2 above and also Proto 2000 GP9. Both share the same bogies, wheels, gears and bushings. With the GP9 I discovered that there is no reason to unpower the other axle on the pickup shoe bogie. The pickup shoe can be installed in the middle so that the knuckles at the ends will go over the ends and work like a magic. And they must, because othervise the depth will not be enough. This job involves a hobby knife, a little piece of sheet styrene (to make a floor for the pickup shoe) and superglue. And of course the pucnup shoe. Choose 206370 for the extra flatness. It’s about an hour of job to do it…. Maybe more on the first time around. Look for a model that has a bogie that looks like this:  With this discovery I came to realize that the DC wheels do not need to be changed to Märklin wheels. Changing to Märklin wheels made the GP40-2 axles eccentric, which led to bangging/rattling running noise. The GP9 runs very well on C track with the DC wheels and does negotiate all turnouts and R1 curves. Also on straight K track. I’m going to change back the DC wheels to the GP40-2. Just make sure to narrow the inner flange distance to 13,8 - 13,9mm. It’s important! Also these things have massive tractive power as they are so heavy. With four axles at least. Three ain’t quite enough. So no traction tires required. I’ll be making more videos when my Loksounds 5s and 21 MTC boards arrive. -Eino
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Joined: 20/05/2023(UTC) Posts: 214 Location: Wales, powys
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1 user liked this useful post by heinrichhess
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Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC) Posts: 459 Location: Kaarina
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Hi guys, I'm gonna make a last part of the "how to" series soon, but meanwhile, enjoy this work in progress SD45 Athearn blue box running on Märklin: All six axles are powered. Original DC wheels, but with ~13,8 - ~13,9mm inner flange width. A long Märklin pickup shoe, not sure which part number, but I think it's the longest available and of course Loksound 5. Thanks! -Eino
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8 users liked this useful post by einotuominen
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Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC) Posts: 459 Location: Kaarina
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Hi, I know I'm a bit late with the last conversion "report/tutorial/what ever you want to call it", but meanwhile, here is a Proto2000 SW9/1200 that I made... Well actually it is still work in progress, as the decoder, power pack and speaker did not quite fit in the cab. This one has Kato bogies, which were not optimal for the task. One axle had to be unpowered, because gears had to be removed in order to fit the pickup shoe. Here's a video, the slow speed performance is stunning! This one also has telex couplers: -Eino
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2 users liked this useful post by einotuominen
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