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Offline Cmondialo  
#1 Posted : 15 April 2023 01:09:17(UTC)
Cmondialo

United States   
Joined: 23/11/2016(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: South Carolina, Columbia
This is my first post hopefully in the correct spot. I have been running a mostly mfx layout w a group of trains sitting on track and one or two trains actively moving on track using a MS2. Others are there mainly in sidings for added sound and lights until selected to drive.

I decided to pick up a CS3 as I’m going to expand my layout or perhaps start a second track. The CS3 and supply arrived today. I’m sure others have done this already. I know I can connect the CS3 and search for existing engines, cars, switches etc. Seems somewhat intuitive but I’m curious about other’s experiences.

Any issue asking the CS3 to find a multiple objects? I noted in videos there is a re-search feature. If switches are seen and no layout is stored am I asking for a failure or crash lol. Any insight is appreciated.

Thanks
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Offline roberts  
#2 Posted : 15 April 2023 10:30:52(UTC)
roberts

Sweden   
Joined: 06/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 52
Location: Göteborg
Originally Posted by: Cmondialo Go to Quoted Post
This is my first post hopefully in the correct spot. I have been running a mostly mfx layout w a group of trains sitting on track and one or two trains actively moving on track using a MS2. Others are there mainly in sidings for added sound and lights until selected to drive.

I decided to pick up a CS3 as I’m going to expand my layout or perhaps start a second track. The CS3 and supply arrived today. I’m sure others have done this already. I know I can connect the CS3 and search for existing engines, cars, switches etc. Seems somewhat intuitive but I’m curious about other’s experiences.

Any issue asking the CS3 to find a multiple objects? I noted in videos there is a re-search feature. If switches are seen and no layout is stored am I asking for a failure or crash lol. Any insight is appreciated.

Thanks


It can find multiple objects, but it will take a while to read many mfx items. Perhaps best to add a few at a time.

There is no need to create a layout before reading objects. You can make backup copies in case something goes wrong.

Robert
Offline JohnjeanB  
#3 Posted : 15 April 2023 12:53:55(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,083
Location: Paris, France
Hi Cmondialo (a first name would be perfect)

Not sure if this answers your question:
- my layout has 26 MFX locos all under power and my CS3 (I had a CS2 60215, before) and its 5A power supply 60101
- my layout uses also Rocrail so, there are NO signal stop section (not under power)
- the regustration of MFX locos not working for all of them for me, probably because of the wiring and number of locos.
- I found the locos difficult to register can be set on the programming track and then they register w/o problems
- on a simpler layout (for instance my steam depot) then all locos register in one go w/o problem (6 or 7 of them)

Notes:
- Märklin recommends NOT to use this 5 A power supply 60101 for HO layouts but it is so convenient not to have boosters and track separation that I am using this approch since 2012 and all is OK.
- when registering a loco, all others MUST be on line. If not, the newly registered loco may reuse the number of an already registered loco that is not on-line.
- MFX is about the locos being interrogated by the CS3 and answering back. The answerback signal from locos is not as strong as the CS and may be weakened by the number of locos on the same circuit. The answerback is quite a lot of information (a complete file in fact, in phrases) that it is easy to garble the registration. This is the reason why a loco must be left alone and stopped during the registration process.

Cheers
Jean
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Offline rhfil  
#4 Posted : 15 April 2023 14:16:22(UTC)
rhfil

United States   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 422
Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth
- when registering a loco, all others MUST be on line. If not, the newly registered loco may reuse the number of an already registered loco that is not on-line.
Not sure if that is true as I have a lot of mfx locos most of which are not on the layout and no new mfx loco has ever been registered with an existing address. I did read one warning about a possible problem if you take a mfx registered loco to a different CS3 and register it and then bring it back to your CS3 and put it on the track again. But I have done that and have experienced no problem.
Offline mbarreto  
#5 Posted : 15 April 2023 15:11:25(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,257

I don't see how can addresses be duplicated with MFX.


Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 15 April 2023 15:46:29(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,083
Location: Paris, France
Hi
@rhphil, Miguel: agreed it does not happen very often but it happened to me with a CS3 3 days ago. I have more than 30 MFX locos and the MFX registration starts at 5 and uses almost consecutive numbers with the highest being 47.
I have this registration on close surveillance because of my connection with Rocrail (must declare the protocol and the # for each loco) and a number change does go un-noticed.

Evidence of this is all my numbers being contiguous with 2 address gaps (of 1 address and another of 5 addresses)
I recently added a new loco (digitalized Kittel while another was in the box (BR221), used rarely, so the Kittel was given the address of the BR_221_227 because it was absent

Sans titre.png
This this additional to what happend to me 3 days ago for which I have no picture.
When this duplication happens (one older loco remaining in its box) then both locos show on the CS3 the same address BUT the newer loco can be used (fresh address) while the older one is "frozen" (inhibited) and a lost MFX loco must be started with all locos on line to be successful and the "old" loco being assigned a new number.
So, not so rare after all.


Cheers

Jean
Offline David Dewar  
#7 Posted : 15 April 2023 16:50:41(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,332
Location: Scotland
Locos will register one after the other but it will take time. You can just put one loco on the track and when registered add another. No reason for CS3 to duplicate a mfx address.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#8 Posted : 15 April 2023 17:16:54(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,083
Location: Paris, France
Dear David
This is your opinion that I respect. What I have is what I observe and can demonstrate.

The simple fact that all addresses are starting from address 5 and are almost perfectly contiguous (in my case with some new additions and some destructions of decoders) demonstrates the fact that the algorithm assigns a number to the lower values and sometimes REPLACING older addresses of destructed decoders or locos remaining in boxes (I have 2 obvious occurrences). Assigned numbers could have expanded without trying to reuse existing addresses. After all the available number go up to 4096 I think.
I have juggled MFX registrations between my two CS2 (60215) one of which is now failing, my CS3, my MS1 and its special rail and PSU, my MS2 and its trackbox. I seldom use my CS1 (60212) which has never received any update since 2007 or so.

Cheers
Jean
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Offline David Dewar  
#9 Posted : 15 April 2023 18:14:16(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,332
Location: Scotland
Hi Jean. I do not doubt what you say but as you are using software other than Marklin would this not make a difference.
I can have a loco unused for a while and even after adding new locos the old loco runs with no problem with the same address as before.
Could it be there are different decoders which may cause a problem. Also with mfx turnout decoders I have not known any duplicate address even when replacing turnouts and decoders.
Maybe others have a similar problem and if Peter is on he would probably explain why this is happening to you.
All best

David



Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Goofy  
#10 Posted : 15 April 2023 18:51:15(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
That´s way i use DCC protocol to add manually into system to make sure that there is no two identify loco adress.
In the locomotives manual there is MM and DCC adress to read.
If there are same adress like other locomotive you must change the adress on the programming track.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline rhfil  
#11 Posted : 15 April 2023 23:01:07(UTC)
rhfil

United States   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 422
Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth
One comment by the Marklin Dudes that I have never understood is that the handshake between an mfx locomotive and the CS3 is unique and irrespective of the address. I recorded all the addresses assigned originally by my CS3. I will check to see if any have changed. One of the nice features of the CS3 is the ability to sort locos by address. And in my case since I use the Marklin number as the first part of the name, by Marklin number.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#12 Posted : 15 April 2023 23:47:38(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,083
Location: Paris, France
Hi
Originally Posted by: rhfil Go to Quoted Post
One comment by the Marklin Dudes that I have never understood is that the handshake between an mfx locomotive and the CS3 is unique and irrespective of the address. I recorded all the addresses assigned originally by my CS3. I will check to see if any have changed. One of the nice features of the CS3 is the ability to sort locos by address. And in my case since I use the Marklin number as the first part of the name, by Marklin number.

I don't know the details of the "handshake" between the Central Station (CS1, CS2 or CS3) but here is the little that I know:
- the protocol taking place during the first registration is really a negociation between the CSx data (e.g.: already registered locos) and the "new" loco.
- when you change from one CSx to another (I did this many many times) the CS tries to keep the number unchanged (but not always, I have witnessed it).
- it is a handshacke because the loco is sending its present parameters (a few hundreds of CVs) and allows the CSx to adjust them (OK , not during registration but afterwards, once registered). There must be a mutual validation before the full control can start.
- when using one CSx and not adding any locos, then the numbers are totally stable (won't change by themselves).
- a CSx update or an attempt to update by connecting to Märklin will put registered loco on hold. By using an external software like Rocrail, the locos won't start until being selected (called by) the CSx, one by one. It is sort of a very simplified registration process.

MFX is a really good system and I try to avoid ESU decoders because the MFX is not complete (many times you have to revert to DCC and a zillion CVs while a CS2 or CS3 makes everything super simple.
It it fair to say that in the past, a failed / interrupted registration was really a pain in the neck and many times, my simplified MS1 and its special rail (not connected to a CS2 or CS3) saved the day by allowing the registratuon to start anew. Not anymore, since a few years, the command "find lost MFX locos" makes things much simpler.
Cheers
Jean
Offline Goofy  
#13 Posted : 16 April 2023 11:08:04(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post


MFX is a really good system and I try to avoid ESU decoders because the MFX is not complete (many times you have to revert to DCC and a zillion CVs while a CS2 or CS3 makes everything super simple.

Jean


That is not truth.
I have ESU locomotive and they works excellent by use M4 with the CS3.
To program DCC protocol with ESU decoders are easy too with the CS3.


H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline David Dewar  
#14 Posted : 16 April 2023 12:42:23(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,332
Location: Scotland
Looking at the original post we appear to have gone off topic. The question as I see it does not include Rocrail or ESU but only relates to Marklin and the CS3.
Maybe our poster is now confused but it would be nice if he would come back and tell us how he is doing by just adding the locos one at a time to the CS3.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Goofy  
#15 Posted : 16 April 2023 15:56:39(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Looking at the original post we appear to have gone off topic. The question as I see it does not include Rocrail or ESU but only relates to Marklin and the CS3.
Maybe our poster is now confused but it would be nice if he would come back and tell us how he is doing by just adding the locos one at a time to the CS3.


No it is not gone off topic since we discuss about to register locomotive in difference way.
With Ecos you can use RailComplus too that works like mfx by register a locomotive into system.
DCC, RailComplus and mfx/M4 are protocol system.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline David Dewar  
#16 Posted : 16 April 2023 17:12:14(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,332
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Looking at the original post we appear to have gone off topic. The question as I see it does not include Rocrail or ESU but only relates to Marklin and the CS3.
Maybe our poster is now confused but it would be nice if he would come back and tell us how he is doing by just adding the locos one at a time to the CS3.


No it is not gone off topic since we discuss about to register locomotive in difference way.
With Ecos you can use RailComplus too that works like mfx by register a locomotive into system.
DCC, RailComplus and mfx/M4 are protocol system.


Goofy. The poster only has a CS3 as far as I can see so why bring in other software and ESU which he does not have.
The question is mfx and Marklin CS3. Not surprised the Cmondialo has not come back into the thread.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline Cmondialo  
#17 Posted : 18 April 2023 15:20:47(UTC)
Cmondialo

United States   
Joined: 23/11/2016(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: South Carolina, Columbia
All
I first thank you for the insights on getting the CS3 operational. It found all of my mfx and mfx+ locos by being patient as was noted. As they load there was clearly a pause between items.

It did find 5 of my 6 switches. Odd to me that the last wasn't found. But I would consider that a win. I did manage to break my signal light on the turnout when I assumed it wouldn't find due to a poor connection. LOL the miracle of an expert tip needle on a glue bottle resolved the signal. Trying an alternate address on the dip switches resolved the switch on the CS3.

Only one loco only partially loaded: the BR 701 DB 39970 Powered Catenary Maintenance Rail Car. I remember challenges with that on the MS2 before I finally got the mechanical features running, that will be a different post and search. All the other engines were fine.

But thanks to all I'm operational. Now enjoying learning track layout on you tube and the CS3.

The CS3 shows me that my layout is to small given all it can do over the MS2. So I venture Ill load SCRAM and begin a larger layout before loading more engines to the layout via CS3. Again reading all the comments was highly beneficial.

Tangents are no impact to me as an aside if it helps others.

Chas
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Offline David Dewar  
#18 Posted : 18 April 2023 15:44:04(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,332
Location: Scotland
HI Good to hear all is now working well. If you are building a new layout using C track some of the fun is designing it yourself without the use of software. If it does not look right C track is great for making changes. Also useful is the Marklin book on running the CS3 and other Marklin items.

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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