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Offline jsnoddy  
#1 Posted : 16 January 2023 18:54:11(UTC)
jsnoddy

United States   
Joined: 20/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: CALIFORNIA, SAN DIEGO
I purchased both Faller 161651 Traffic-control and Faller 161654 Traffic-light-control thinking I could make them work together. Sadly, that doesn’t seem possible. 161654 works fine with two stops and two traffic lights, but the only way to control them is by setting a delay timer. But I want to control the stops based on sensors in the roadbed. I can do this with 161651, but now the traffic lights don’t sync up with the stop actions. Has anyone dealt with this situation? I know going digital could resolve this, that option is just too expensive for me.
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Offline marklinist5999  
#2 Posted : 17 January 2023 01:38:17(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,139
Location: Michigan, Troy
No, and cost is why I don't have one yet. Have you seen the new Viessmann 8000 carmotion? Each vehicle has infrared sensors. No digital needed. About $220 for the start set. Comes with mini usb charging cord, guide wire, magnetic wand, and permanent road magnets. 35 minutes quick charge for 2 hour run time. A remote control is $15, as is a mini usb prgrammer. I'll wait until another set is available with a diffrent vehicle other than an Actros dump truck.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#3 Posted : 17 January 2023 03:24:20(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Have you seen the new Viessmann 8000 carmotion?


Yes, and Modellbahn Lippe won't sell them outside of Europe.
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Offline DB Fan  
#4 Posted : 17 January 2023 04:17:26(UTC)
DB Fan

United States   
Joined: 01/03/2016(UTC)
Posts: 265
Location: Colorado
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
No, and cost is why I don't have one yet. Have you seen the new Viessmann 8000 carmotion? Each vehicle has infrared sensors. No digital needed. About $220 for the start set. Comes with mini usb charging cord, guide wire, magnetic wand, and permanent road magnets. 35 minutes quick charge for 2 hour run time. A remote control is $15, as is a mini usb prgrammer. I'll wait until another set is available with a diffrent vehicle other than an Actros dump truck.


Where did you find the start set that includes the guide wire?? So far I saw it only without the guide wire that needed to be purchased separately. Let me know please. Thank you.

Robert
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Offline PJMärklin  
#5 Posted : 17 January 2023 07:46:19(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,210
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Have you seen the new Viessmann 8000 carmotion?


Yes, and Modellbahn Lippe won't sell them outside of Europe.


How interesting Blink

Why do you think that is David?

Regards,

Philip Smile
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 17 January 2023 12:38:16(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,124
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: jsnoddy Go to Quoted Post
I purchased both Faller 161651 Traffic-control and Faller 161654 Traffic-light-control thinking I could make them work together. Sadly, that doesn’t seem possible. 161654 works fine with two stops and two traffic lights, but the only way to control them is by setting a delay timer. But I want to control the stops based on sensors in the roadbed. I can do this with 161651, but now the traffic lights don’t sync up with the stop actions. Has anyone dealt with this situation? I know going digital could resolve this, that option is just too expensive for me.

Hi
Like you I started with modules like the one you mentioned but also the Rola but soon there was a need for changes, adaptations.
So I ended up connection sensors to my Märklin CS3 and Rocrail and process the signals exactly as if it was a train.
It is cheaper and you do exactly what you want:
- processing at grade levels
- interval control
- 3 road intersections
- interference of Bus stops at traffic lights
Here is what I mean


On the Rola, after I burned "Freimachtspulen" (liberation coils) I installed thermal switches on coils so that, as soon as they get warm, they switch off.
It gives this

Cheers
Jean


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Offline marklinist5999  
#7 Posted : 17 January 2023 13:56:38(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,139
Location: Michigan, Troy
The Viessmann 8000 complete start set with the blue MB Actros dump truck includes the guide wire. Read the full spec. descriptions. Other start sets with different trucks do not, nor all of the other items. Modellbahn Union has them, and I wasn't aware that Lippe Detmold won't sell them outside Europe.
They may have limited stock, because The Viessmann spokesman said at the recent exhibition that the chip shortage had affected it's release.
Perhaps the Faller electronic modules can be used only to automate the signals?
Offline Minok  
#8 Posted : 17 January 2023 20:40:01(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
No, and cost is why I don't have one yet. Have you seen the new Viessmann 8000 carmotion? Each vehicle has infrared sensors. No digital needed. About $220 for the start set. Comes with mini usb charging cord, guide wire, magnetic wand, and permanent road magnets. 35 minutes quick charge for 2 hour run time. A remote control is $15, as is a mini usb prgrammer. I'll wait until another set is available with a diffrent vehicle other than an Actros dump truck.


Those are nice, they integrate the DC Car / Open Car type technology into a more mass produced major brand, a good move.

But that doesn't solve the issue the OP had about traffic lights and traffic control, I think.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline TrainIride  
#9 Posted : 18 January 2023 17:26:46(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,914
Location: FRANCE
Originally Posted by: jsnoddy Go to Quoted Post
I purchased both Faller 161651 Traffic-control and Faller 161654 Traffic-light-control thinking I could make them work together. Sadly, that doesn’t seem possible. 161654 works fine with two stops and two traffic lights, but the only way to control them is by setting a delay timer. But I want to control the stops based on sensors in the roadbed. I can do this with 161651, but now the traffic lights don’t sync up with the stop actions. Has anyone dealt with this situation? I know going digital could resolve this, that option is just too expensive for me.


Hi,

on the unexpensive side of the thing, I had made some experiments with 161773 Roadbed sensors.
They are kind of Reed switches, so if we take care of the feeding current passing through,
we can easily drive some bistable relays (using a few common electronic components)
to sequence stop sections and simultaneously traffic lights...

The wiring diagram is in the movie, maybe it can give you some ideas...



Best Regards
Joël

Edited by user 19 January 2023 10:25:43(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline marklinist5999  
#10 Posted : 18 January 2023 21:02:26(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,139
Location: Michigan, Troy
After reading the Viessmann carmotion manual on their website, it states "not intended for use in the USA, China, or Taiwan. I can guess that our FCC "federal communication compliance has not been approved. This mean s an electronic devic emay not emit any frequency which could interfere with any Govt. used one, but it can not be isolated from such frequencies either. This doesn't make sense given the very short range of the I.R. sensors, and remote. American dealers have it listed for preorder reservation.
It says the system is compatible with exhisting ones already on the market. That may mean Faller?
The guide wiring isn't included as I thought, but is an additional 15 euro.
Offline Nielsenr  
#11 Posted : 18 January 2023 22:51:20(UTC)
Nielsenr

United States   
Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 883
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Hey!! Although I have been a member here for quite sometime, I haven't been on the forum for a few years. I happened to go on today to see comments on the new Marklin items and to see if there was a post by Stevetrain on the estimated delivery schedule that he use to post, and I saw this thread.

I have used both of these Faller items in the past. On a client's layout I used the 161654 controller and added some hardwired relays and sensors to add additional stop sections on each side of the traffic signals. I also have "kit bashed" using the 161651 controller and a servo controller to activate RR crossing gates and also stopping the cars. The last thing I worked on was similar to what I think you want to do. It was on an O Scale layout using some O Scale cars from a company called Automotion FX (I think that was the name of the company) and the Faller hardware.

I assume you want three cars in each direction to stop at a traffic signal when it turns red and then release the cars in sequence when the traffic signal turns green. I also assume you are only trying to control a two way intersection, not a three way or four way. Under program 15 on the 161651 controller, you need a dry contact closure at E3 to stop the cars and a dry contact closure at E4 to start the cars back up. You should be ale to connect a 12v "unlatched" relay to one of the stop solenoid connections on the161654 when it is energized for the stop position to energize the relay. The normally open position of the relay would connect to E3 (the normally open position of the relay will close when the relay is energized) and the normally closed position of the relay would connect to E4

I am willing to rethink this if someone finds a flaw in my logic. Also, if you are trying to do something different than what I am assuming, I would need a more detailed explanation.

Robert
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#12 Posted : 19 January 2023 01:36:55(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,124
Location: Paris, France
Hi
I agree with TrainIride.
To organize a road layout with Faller bricks can become expensive (stops, deviations, etc)
Below is a simple example of a combination of one stop (traffic light) and one deviation.
The starting point is because it was on a bridge there was no space to install the very large stop coil and the very long and fragile deviation coil.
So I used a disposable cleaner's hanger to shape a stop and a deviation.
Here is the underneath of a road bridge made of Laserstreet elements that you can see during operation testing



The brain is a very inexpensive servo purchased from China (3 to 5€ apiece) and a servo controller from ESU
You may see that one servo moves a magnet close to the "street" to stop cars and away 5 to 6 mm to let them go
The deviation is a bent iron wire underneath the street to guide the car out.
Since this first approch I found much easier to drill a hole in the laserstreet and cover the hole with a thin plastic.
Underneath a bent iron wire (my disposable hanger) rotates to go in the hole as ordered by a servo motor. A little magnet (watch for proper polarisation) attracks the slider of the car in the deviation mode. The the wire plunger is not up in the street then the car / truck goes stratit ahead. Seems complex but it is not (can be made in less than one hour)

Where to drill the deviation hole?
Here is a picture with dimensions of a standard deviation cover and the Blue and Yellow points indicate where to locate these holes to deviate either to the right or to the left.
Location Deviation hole.jpg

The other very important bricks are the Faller sensors 161773 and the magnets 163221 for stops or for differentiation of vehicules (Buses, Trucks, others).
I also found that the key tool is the groove cutter 161669.

You can see the bridge (on the left) in operation on this video

Note: the bridge on the right has also 2 servos (1 for stopping and one for the left turn)


Regarding Faller automation block, I find them expensive and good in stand-alone mode (cannot be combined) and non modifyable (try to manage a 3 road intersection with the traffic-Light control 161651. It goes much easier and flexible using like for trains, the sensor feed-back and the modules to drive switches, the brain being a CS3 or Rocrail

Just my opinion
Cheers
Jean
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